Episode 22 of the Pop Apocalypse features part two of Matt's epic interview with musician and mathematician, Robert Schneider. Robert and Matt discuss the status of the third Olivia Tremor Control record (2:44), and how that story is interwoven with Robert’s own move from music into mathematics. From there, we explore the mysticism and mystery of mathematics through figures like Pythagoras and the twentieth-century visionary and mathematician Ramanujan. Robert also reflects on his revelatory experiences with mathematics and how number theory speaks to a central concern in the history of philosophy: the one and the many.

Robert Schneider bio

Robert Schneider is a musician, producer, and mathematician. He co-founded The Elephant 6 Recording Co. in the early 1990s, a collective of independent musicians and artists. Schneider is the lead singer and songwriter for The Apples in Stereo, a psychedelic pop band that has recorded seven studio albums. As a producer, Robert recorded and mixed some of the most celebrated albums of the 1990s, including Neutral Milk Hotel’s In the Aeroplane Over the Sea and Olivia Tremor Control’s Dusk at Cubist Castle. He completed his PhD in Mathematics at Emory University in 2018, specializing in number theory and combinatorics. Robert is now Assistant Professor of Mathematical Sciences at Michigan Technological University, where he helps run the Mathematics and Music Lab.

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https://www.youtube.com/@PopApocalypse

Robert Schneider links

Elephant 6 links

Spirituality and The Elephant 6 Collective With Robert Schneider

In episodes 21 and 22 of the Pop Apocalypse, host Matt Dillon welcomes musician and mathematician Robert Schneider. Schneider is the lead singer of the psychedelic pop band The Apples in Stereo, a producer for bands including Neutral Milk Hotel and Olivia Tremor Control, and currently serves as an Assistant Professor of Mathematical Sciences at Michigan Technological University. 

In part one, we discuss Robert’s religious upbringing in the American South before exploring the mystical dimensions of The Elephant 6 Recording Co (8:58). We touch on the Church of the Subgenius, meditative practices, Krishna Consciousness, church camps, Surrealism, and Sun Ra’s Arkestra, then take a deep dive (1:13:11) into how the Beach Boys served as the spiritual and artistic north star for Elephant 6. 

Robert Schneider bio

Robert Schneider is a musician, producer, and mathematician. He co-founded The Elephant 6 Recording Co. in the early 1990s, a collective of independent musicians and artists. Schneider is the lead singer and songwriter for The Apples in Stereo, a psychedelic pop band that has recorded seven studio albums. As a producer, Robert recorded and mixed some of the most celebrated albums of the 1990s, including Neutral Milk Hotel’s In the Aeroplane Over the Sea and Olivia Tremor Control’s Dusk at Cubist Castle. He completed his PhD in Mathematics at Emory University in 2018, specializing in number theory and combinatorics. Robert is now Assistant Professor of Mathematical Sciences at Michigan Technological University, where he helps run the Mathematics and Music Lab.

Subscribe to Pop Apocalypse on YouTube for new episodes after June!

https://www.youtube.com/@PopApocalypse

Robert Schneider links

Elephant 6 links

In Pop Apocalypse, Ep. 20, we welcome actress, writer, producer, and activist, Amy Brenneman. After earning her B.A. in Comparative Religions at Harvard, Amy went on to a successful acting career, with star turns in the film Heat, as well as the shows like "The Leftovers," "The Old Man," and "Judging Amy" (which she also wrote and produced). In this wide-ranging conversation (2:12), Amy and I explore how the craft of acting, study of religion, and practice of Jungian dreamwork have enriched one another throughout her career. We discuss the similarities between ritual and acting, and how a background in comparative religion helped Amy write, build, and inhabit characters. She also describes (20:00) how decades of practicing active imagination and Jungian dreamwork helped her bring a mythic and numinous dimension to roles like Laurie Garvey in The Leftovers. To close (1:03:09), we discuss Amy’s current experience as a Master’s student at Harvard Divinity School and her research into the politics and possibilities of the Trickster archtype.

BIO

Amy Brenneman earned a degree in Comparative Religion at Harvard, specializing in Indo-Tibetan Religion. She was a founding member of the Cornerstone Theater Company, which specializes in site-specific community-based theater on themes of social justice; her roles included Juliet in Romeo and Juliet, Natasha in Three Sisters and Clytemnestra in The Oresteia. 
Other theater:  CSC Rep, Lincoln Center Theater, Williamstown Theater Festival, Yale Rep and The American Repertory Theater.  She starred in the world premiere of the Pulitzer Prize-nominated Rapture Blister Burn (Playwrights Horizons, Geffen Theater) and Power of Sail opposite Bryan Cranston (Geffen Theater.)  She played Miriam of Nazareth in the world premiere of Galilee 34 (South Coast Rep) and starred in The Sound Inside (Pasadena Playhouse), which was named one of the years’ best performances by the Los Angeles Times.She recently starred in the world premiere of Fake It Until You Make It by Larissa Fasthorse at Arena Stage. 

Amy co-created, wrote, and starred in Mouth Wide Open (The Yard, American Repertory Theater) and Overcome (The Yard, En Garde Arts, Cotuit Center for The Arts.)  She has performed original spoken word pieces at Spark, Tasty Words and Tangletuit.

For her activist work, Amy has been honored by Women in Film, The Brady Center, the League of Women Voters, the California State Assembly, the National Children’s Alliance, the Chime Institute, Children’s Hospital Los Angeles, the Help Group, the Producer’s Guild of America, among others. Amy currently serves on the Creative Council for the Center for Reproductive Rights and received the Eleanor Roosevelt Award from The Feminist Majority for her ongoing commitment to reproductive rights.

Amy is married to writer/director Brad Silberling and has two children, Charlotte and Bodhi. Currently she attends Harvard Divinity School in the Master of Religion and Public Life program, researching the role of the Trickster archetype in ritual and activism. 

In Pop Apocalypse, Ep. 19, we welcome author and musician, Gary Lachman, to the show. Lachman was the original bassist for the seminal new wave band, Blondie. He later became an intellectual historian; to date, Lachman has published twenty-six books, most recently a memoir, Touched by the Presence: From Blondie’s Bowery and Rock and Roll to Magic and the Occult (Inner Traditions, 2025). In this wide-ranging chat (3:01), we discuss how Lachman’s reading of comics and Lovecraft inspired a lifelong interest in the occult, his early days in Blondie, and how he came to Crowleyan magick. Then we turn to Lachman’s time practicing “The Work” of Gurdjieff, his relationship with the author Colin Wilson, and how keeping a dream journal can change our view of the nature of time.

Gary Lachman Bio

Gary Lachman is an author and lecturer on consciousness, counterculture, and the Western esoteric tradition. His works include Dark Star Rising (Tarcher, 2018), Beyond the Robot (TarcherPerigee, 2016), and The Secret Teachers of the Western World (Tarcher, 2015). A founding member of the rock band Blondie, he was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2006. He lives in London.

Gary Lachman's webpage

Touched by the Presence: From Blondie's Bowery and Rock and Roll to Magic and the Occult

CSWR EVENTS

• Charles Stang and Sarah Schorr, "Thoreau's Solar and Lunar Philosophy."
• Jane Hirschfield: A Reading.

In Pop Apocalypse, Ep. 18, we welcome theologian, author, and Episcopal priest Cynthia Bourgeault, whose work combines the Christian contemplative and wisdom traditions, “The Work” of GI Gurdjieff, and the philosophy of Henry Corbin into a lived mystical theology. Throughout the episode (2:38), we explore Cynthia’s religious upbringing and early mystical awakening, her academic training in Medieval sacred drama, and her decision to pursue the priesthood. Then we take a deep dive (14:01) into Bourgeault’s relationship with the practice and theory of The Work, and how she has integrated them into the Christian wisdom tradition. As the interview ends (55:37), Cynthia and I discuss the benefits of a hermit's life, the influence of the Gospel of Thomas, and how contemplative Christianity resonates with the spiritual concerns of many in the early twenty-first century. 

Watch the episode on YouTube

Bio:
Cynthia Bourgeault is a modern-day mystic, Episcopal priest, writer, and internationally known retreat leader. She is the author of numerous books, including Eye of the Heart: A Spiritual Journey into the Imaginal Realm(Shambhala, 2020)and The Heart of Centering Prayer: Nondual Christianity in Theory and Practice (Shambhala, 2016).She divides her time between solitude and sailing the waters around her seaside hermitage in Maine, and a demanding schedule traveling globally to teach and spread the recovery of the Christian contemplative and Wisdom paths.

Links

• Wisdom Waypoints
• Cynthia Bourgeault's Substack
• CynthiaBourgeault.org
• Bourgeault's published books.
• Jacob Needleman's Lost Christianity.
• YouTube links to the G.I. Gurdjieff conference at the CSWR (Dec. 2024)

Do we live inside a Matrix-like simulation? For Episode 17 of Pop Apocalypse, we welcome one of the leading theorists behind the simulation hypothesis, Rizwan Virk, to discuss that question. Virk is an entrepreneur, videogame pioneer, and academic author of two major works on simulation theory:The Simulation Hypothesis (Tarcher, 2025) and The Simulated Multiverse (Bayview Books, 2021). In the interview (3:51), we discuss the technologies necessary to make a Matrix-like simulation possible and how close we are to achieving them. Then we turn to the religious and mystical dimensions of simulation theory (29:43), exploring reincarnation, out-of-body experiences, UAPs, angels, and the anthropocentrism and ethical pitfalls of simulation theory.

Rizwan Virk bio

A graduate of MIT and Stanford University,  Rizwan Virk, PhD, is a successful entrepreneur, video game pioneer, film producer, venture capitalist, professor, and bestselling author of The Simulation Hypothesis (Tarcher, 2025), Wisdom of a Yogi(Bayview Books, 2023), and The Simulated Multiverse (Bayview Books, 2021). Virk’s video games, including Tap Fish and Penny Dreadful: Demimonde, have been played by millions. He is the founder and executive director of Play Labs @ MIT, a video game accelerator at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and currently teaches at Arizona State University.

Rizwan Virk's Homepage

Pop Apocalypse linktree

For Episode 16 of Pop Apocalypse, we welcome composer, artist, and media theorist Paul Miller. Miller is best known for his music as DJ Spooky, the avant-garde turntableist who has collaborated with artists ranging from Chuck D to Yoko Ono. He has also re-scored classic films, such as The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, and his art has been showcased in exhibitions at the Whitney Museum of American Art. 

In this wide-ranging conversation (6:12), we asked Paul to explore the eeriness of life in the digital age. We touch on the perils and possibilities of artificial intelligence, the role of the DJ, Japanese Butoh as a response to nuclear tragedy, re-scoring D.W. Griffith’s The Birth of a Nation, and how Einstein, science fiction, and Sun Ra have shaped Miller’s work. 

Paul Miller bio

Paul D. Miller, aka DJ Spooky, is currently at work on two books: one about the impact of algorithms on how we think of storytelling, Digital Fiction for Duke University Press, and The Future of Food, about the impact of AI on how we think of the production of food in the twenty-first century. He was Artist in Residence at Yale University Center for Collaborative Arts and Media (2023-2024). He is a composer, multimedia artist, and writer whose work engages audiences in a blend of genres, global culture, and environmental and social issues. Miller has collaborated with an array of recording artists, including Ryuichi Sakamoto, Metallica, Chuck D from Public Enemy, Steve Reich, and Yoko Ono, among many others. His 2018 album, DJ Spooky Presents: Phantom Dancehall, debuted at No. 3 on Billboard Reggae.

Paul Miller links

• Homepage
• Songs of a Dead Dreamer
• Japanese Butoh
• Rebirth of a Nation
• Rhythm Science
• Sound Unbound

Pop Apocalypse links

• Linktree
• YouTube
• Instagram
• CSWR landing page
• Email us at [email protected]

For episode 15 of Pop Apocalypse, we welcome assistant professor, Fryderyk Kwiatkowski, on to discuss the relationship between ancient Gnostic myth and modern cinema. Fryderyk takes us through the impact European intellectuals 20:29 Carl Jung, Hans Jonas, and Eric Voegelin on popular conceptions of Gnosticism. We then dive into analyses of the Gnostic elements in films 34:34 like the Matrix, Dark City, Truman Show, and more recent cinema like Free Guy, Chappie, and the television series Silo.

BIO
Fryderyk Kwiatkowski is an Assistant at AGH University of Krakow. He earned a joint doctoral degree from the University of Groningen and the Jagiellonian University in 2023 with a thesis entitled Gnosticism in Hollywood: From European Academia to American Popular Culture. His research interests encompass the cultural reception of late antique esoteric traditions, their intersections with discourses on utopias and dystopias, and the (not-so-obvious) intertwinement of popular media, philosophy, and religion. He is currently developing a project on the role of imagination in contemporary technoculture, with a focus on the feedback loops between transhumanism, science fiction, and esotericism. He has published his research in venues such as Gnosis: Journal of Gnostic Studies, CLCWeb: Comparative Literature and Culture, Journal of Religion and Film.

NOTES
Fryderyk Kwiatkowski
Academia.edu
Gnosticism in Hollywood: From European Academia to American Popular Culture
"Eric Voegelin and Gnostic Hollywood"
"How to Attain Liberation from a False World? The Gnostic Myth of Sophia in Dark City."

For episode 14 of Pop Apocalypse, we welcome the linguist and philosopher Wouter Kusters. Kusters is the author of Pure Madness (2004) and A Philosophy of Madness (2014), both of which won the Dutch Socrates Award for best philosophy book of the year. We discuss (5:26) how the experience of psychotic thinking challenges and illuminates our notions of language, philosophy, and mysticism. Along the way, we touch on the similarities between mystical and mad experiences, apophatic and psychotic uses of language, the phenomenology of time, and the impact of Kusters’ books on mental health specialists.

Wouter Kusters, PhD, is a linguist and philosopher based in the Netherlands. Two of his books received the Dutch Socrates Award for the best and most inspiring philosophy book of the year: Pure Madness (2004) and A Philosophy of Madness (2014). The English version of this latter work was released in 2020 by MIT Press. In 2022, an Arabic version was released, and a Chinese translation is expected this year. Kusters writes on a range of themes in various outlets that explore perennial questions of meaning, madness, mysticism, and language.

LINKS
Wouter Kusters' homepage
A Philosophy of Madness

For Episode 13 of Pop Apocalypse, we welcome Shannon Taggart, an American photographer, writer, researcher, and curator known for exploring how photography can navigate boundaries between the seen and unseen. Her book, Séance (Fulger Press, 2019), offers hundreds of photographs documenting contemporary Spiritualism across the U.S. and Britain. We discuss (3:26) what sparked Shannon’s interests in Spiritualism, the intersecting histories of photography and Spiritualism, ectoplasm, what inspires people to become mediums, and the techniques she developed for photographing the invisible.

Shannon Taggart
Website
Seánce
Lily Dale Symposium, 2025

CSWR Events
May 1, 6-8pm EDT: Peripheries Launch Event, Volume 7
May 15-17: Thinking with Plants and Fungi Conference