NOTE: SHOW LINKS FOR ALL THE MENTIONED PODCASTERS WILL BE ADDED SOON (AND WILL ALSO BE IN THE NOTES FOR NEXT EPISODE TO ENSURE THEY GET SEEN), FOR NOW GETTING THIS OUT WHILE I CAN!
Good Evening Everyone, Welcome to Popeular History. My name is Gregg, and this is another admin update I’ll try to keep from being too boring, in part by offering some observations and speculations about the new Papacy interspersed throughout.
First, some personal updates. I was very tired by the end of last week, thank you for asking. I got some rest and then made sure Vice-Pope Mrs. Popeular History’s primary Mother’s Day present was rest. I am immeasurably grateful for her support, but the reality is even if she weren’t so supportive of this passion project of mine and the fairly unhinged extremes I took it to in the last few weeks, I would still be immeasurably grateful to her for a million other things. She’s the best partner I could have ever hoped to have for so many reasons, and all of you are welcome to be jealous.
I’d also like to thank my children for being malleable enough that I can pass on my love of the faith in general and also my nerdiness to them. Patrick, Catherine, Joseph, William, Gabriel, I love you all and thank you for sharing me with the internet a bit more lately.
I try to shield my children from my more concentrated geekery so they can have somewhat normal childhoods, much like I try to spare my Vice Pope so she can have a somewhat normal marriage, but I will admit I felt a special sense of pride when I heard footsteps after I had invited any of my children interested in appearing on one of my livestreams to come on down to the studio. Those footsteps were from Catherine, who was by that point a good hour and a half into a livestream of the Pope’s funeral that had began at 4am our time. To be clear, the kids aren’t usually up at that time–I mean, neither am I–but wanting to be on the livestream she had asked to be awakened when it began, so I woke her and set her up with a watching station before kicking things off. Days later, she still excitedly references things from it. Just one of many special times from the last couple weeks. My thanks go not only to my immediate household, but to my family beyond as well, in particular my father, who came over at another particularly uncivil hour and summoned black smoke basically as soon as he arrived so I could go rest, as well as my in-laws, who bore with me through a packed weekend of a wedding and a papal funeral. And again, Vice Pope-Mrs Popeular history through it all.
Thanks are due as well to the lovely and supportive folks at work. I wouldn’t want to name anyone who would rather I not name them, so I will be general when I say the atmosphere there has been lovely, and in particular I appreciate those who knew I was their best local source for answers to questions about Popes and Cardinals and conclaves and such. I lead a charmed life these days, and work, from my team to my coworkers to those above me and those supporting me, is full of amazing people I could not appreciate more.
Before I thank even more people, including you the listeners, let’s talk about the New Pope, Leo XIV, specifically, his status as an American. And please, I beg you, don’t be one of the contrarians who have been trying to make “United Statesian” a thing, it’s fine to call Leo XIV the First American Pope. Of course you’re welcome to use the opportunity to draw attention to the fact that Pope Francis is also from “the Americas”, but “American” is the demonym for a person from the United States and there is nothing wrong with using that word in that sense, so stop trying to make fetch happen.
Anyways, Pope Leo was born on September 14, 1955, in Chicago, Illinois. The date is memorable for Catholics as the Triumph of the Cross, one of the more venerable feasts of the Church, commemorating Emperor Constantine’s mother Saint Helena’s apparently successful expedition to the Holy Land in search of the Cross Christ was crucified on, AKA the True Cross. Of course, many of my listeners are more captivated by the Chicago aspect, so let’s hone in on that. First, to get this out of the way, yes, he was raised in Dolton, a community just *outside* Chicago, but contrarians should brace for more disappointment as it remains technically correct to describe Robert Francis Prevost as being “from Chicago”, having been born at Mercy Hospital in the Bronzeville neighborhood on the south side.
In a way, it would be somewhat surprising if Pope Leo *weren’t* from the midwest, considering 80% of the 10 American Cardinals who participated in the conclave are midwesterners by birth. But also that number should actually closer to 90%, considering that’s including the Irish-born Kevin Cardinal Farrell under the American tally, and by that logic the future Leo XIV should probably count as Peruvian. But I’m not gonna begrudge anyone who wants to claim the Pope as one of their own. Even without that wrinkle, I think we can agree Ireland can count as the midwest, especially given the whole Notre Dame thing.
If it were tallied as its own nationality, the Midwestern United States would be the second most represented county in the conclave, still actually in the same place that the United States currently occupies: comfortably behind Italy, and a bit ahead of Brazil.
Nor of course is Chicago unfamiliar to Cardinals in general, having had their senior cleric sporting a red hat–or getting one at the first opportunity–for over a hundred years running, putting them in extremely rarified air, actually I think they’re the only US see that can claim the red hat century club when it’s set on hard mode like that, as New York’s Cardinal Dolan wasn’t elevated at the first opportunity, presumably because Cardinal Egan was still kicking around and Conclave-eligible for a while, and Archbishop Henning of Boston just got passed over last December despite Cardinal O’Malley having freshly aged out.
And my midwest Catholic trivia dump can’t be complete without noting that spookily, Mar Awa III, the current Catholicos-Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East, which shares the spotlight on my upcoming 0.22 supplemental, was also born in Chicago, which may further help the ecumenical relations I discuss in that supplemental episode. Here’s hoping!
One more topic relating to Pope Leo’s roots I want to touch on today: His Louisiana creole and black caribbean heritage. Both of His Holiness’ grandparents on his mother’s side were described as black or mulatto in census documents of their day, with his mother’s father, Joseph Martinez, being listed as born in Santo Domingo, now the capital of the Dominican Republic, though it was then part of Haiti, the only country to have been born as the result of a successful slave rebellion, making black heritage from that region particularly poignant.
I’ll note that His Holiness’ melanin levels are such that he can fairly be described as white passing, and I’d consider it unlikely that the matter was discussed during the recent conclave, though I expect then-Cardinal Prevost was aware of this bit of family history. That said, it’s certainly *possible* that it was a surprise even to him. One way or another, the basic fact is that these genealogical records exist. What to make of them, I leave to those more competent than I. I will commit to circling back to the topic in time, though. For now, it’s time to thank, like, a lot of podcasters.
First and foremost, you probably wouldn’t be listening to this if it weren’t for Bry and Fry of Pontifacts. Their support has been critical in a number of ways and I could not be more appreciative of the way they’ve shared their platform with me, and so much more, right down to Bry making sure I checked my email when she saw that NPR had reached out for an interview. I tragically did not have Bry’s attentive support on the inbox situation when PBS invited me on solo, so that one will always be a bit of a what-if, a hint of how much harder things are without the active support of so many. So again, thank you all, especially people I’m sure I’m forgetting since I’m extremely forgetful.
I think the safest thing to do is to thank the rest of the podcasters who have collaborated with me in order of appearance this year, starting back in February with the Intelligent Speech crew, in particular my fellows on the religion panel discussion, namely Trevor Cully of the History of Persia Podcast as well as the cheekier America’s Secret Wars podcast, Aurora of the Swords, Sorcery, and Socialism podcast, and Bailey of Totalus Jeffianus. What a panel we had. And oh, by the way, apparently I’ve got the green light to share both that and my talk on the Original Grey Eminence, François Leclerc du Tremblay on this feed, so watch out for that in due course. Oh, and uh, shoutout to David Montgomery of The Siecle for his help with French pronunciation this year, not to mention various other assists through the years. All errors are my own, and David is a good guy to know.
Thank you to Jerry of The Presidencies podcast for having me on for one of his intro quotes, his process is impeccably professional just as one would expect after having listened to his show, and it was a great honor to take part.
Thank you as well to Thomas Rillstone of the History of Aotearoa New Zealand podcast for picking a surprisingly fascinating year to solicit info about, even if your release timing was ultimately made awkward by the death of the Holy Father. Oh, I suppose I can release that for you guys as well, though really, go check out his lovely show. Aotearoa is spelled: A-O-T-E-A-R-O-A
Moving on to my guests from the recent sede vacante, the first you all heard was Umberto from the So You Think You Can Rule Persia podcast, who, in addition to offering a fascinating overview of the history of transitions among the Islamic Caliphate also it turns out had the extremely clutch ability to offer live translations of Italian, which put our humble livestream ahead of EWTN, no offense to that major network.
The following day this feed was graced by the previously mentioned Aurora, now on as half of Tsar Power, along with Roberto, who is also from The History of Saqartvelo Georgia and Quest For Power. I’ll let you sort all that out from the links in the show notes, but it’s worth noting that you can expect more collaboration with Roberto on this feed, starting in the not too distant future with a conversation we unwittingly recorded just hours before Pope Francis’ passing, talking optimistically about the future prospects of his papacy. Fortunately there’s still cause for such optimism: Habemus Papam, after all.
Right before the conclave began, I put out a Cardinal Numbers First Judgment segment with John from Prim e Time, though admittedly that episode was originally recorded over a year ago. We did have a fresher appearance from John on the Youtube side of things, as he joined us to meet the new Pope after the white smoke, having cunningly signed up for the correct smokewatch to do so, much like Umberto our live translator. Ethan from Play History on Youtube was also kind enough to join us, helping hold down the fort along with Fry while I juggled toddlers and the white smoke first billowed out. Memorable times, all.
A special thank you to all those who shared the episode I had already prepared on Cardinal Prevost with the wider world, leading to thousands of exposures and hundreds of new listeners. Which, welcome if you’re one of the new listeners. Thank you for tuning in, and I promise I’ll update my Episode 0 soon to help you find your way.
Ok, it’s time for another bout of new Pope stuff before I fill you all in on what to expect from me moving forward. I think it’s appropriate that we take a look at what Pope Leo himself has outlined as important topics and themes here at the start of his papacy.
First, peace, which was literally the first word of Leo’s papacy. An emphasis on peace is no surprise, for one thing, as the newly-elected Pope Leo himself pointed out, his greeting of peace was in the tradition of the resurrected Christ Himself, and thereby an appropriate greeting for the Easter season, which Pope Francis had opened right before his death and through which Pope Leo will continue to guide the Church until Pentecost on June 8th.
The topic of peace is even less surprising in light of the rare public message from the College of Cardinals that was released just before the Conclave, pleading for peace amid escalating war. In light of that, it would have been surprising if he *hadn’t* come out advocating for peace. As is, it’s definitely a core message, and needless to say a timely one too, with Pope Leo already echoing the late Pope Francis’ observation that World War III is already being fought piecemeal.
The appeal for peace does seem to be getting a bit of traction, with India and Pakistan agreeing to a ceasefire, and the Trump administration proposing the Vatican as a mediator in the current conflict between Russia and Ukraine. If you don’t look in the box marked Gaza or consider the actual likelihood of a breakthrough in Ukraine, you might be tempted to feel hopeful: admittedly as you can probably tell I’m more on the skeptical end myself, though I’d be happy to be wrong.
Another topic Pope Leo emphasized in his first speech–and repeatedly since–is togetherness, which could also be filed under dialog or even unity: the interplay between commonality and difference is critical here, and the most consistent analogy is one very suitable to his role as Pope, that of a bridge-builder, a pontifex in Latin, a traditional title of Popes for centuries, though probably not one that really traces back to the ancient Roman priestly title of Pontifex Maximus directly, as it seems to have been primarily added to the Pope’s titles during the renaissance, when the classical world was very fashionable. Now, to really tie the old and the new together, I can tell you that a title once held by Julius Caesar is Pope Leo’s handle on the social media platform formerly known as Twitter: @Pontifex.
When it comes to the Papacy, concepts like building bridges and promoting togetherness play out on multiple levels. First, as pastor of the giant flock known as Catholicism, we can talk about healing divisions within the church. Then, we can talk about healing divisions among all of Christianity, since the Pope is the head of the largest Christian group–and frankly it’s always worth noting that most Christians are Catholics. But really, getting arrogant about it isn’t the way to bring people on board, and from what I can tell so far Leo seems to have taken that lesson from Francis to heart–not that humility is a novel lesson in the history of the Papacy that Francis just invented, but still, give the guy his due..
Lastly, though certainly not leastly, what about healing divisions all over the world, not just among all Christians or even among all religions, but among all people? We’re talking about the Vicar of Christ here, the idea of “not my circus, not my monkies” does not apply, and the more divisions across humanity are healed, the more likely we are to see enduring peace. So, Pope Leo has his work cut out for him, indeed I daresay we all do, as I am going to charitably assume you all want to make the world a better place.
Another priority of the new Pontiff is one that came to light even before his first speech: Vatican-watchers know that modern Popes don’t just pick names at random, for example Pope Francis was strongly broadcasting that he was going to do something different by being the first in the modern era to choose a truly new Papal name. As for Pope Leo, my first impression was quickly confirmed, as Pope Leo XIII looms large in modern Catholic history and his encyclical Rerum Novarum was a watershed moment in the development of modern Catholic Social Teaching, which is a foundational enough topic that I capitalized all those words and you will absolutely catch folks calling Catholic Social Teaching “CST” for short. Before Pope Francis, when you were talking about social justice in a Catholic context–which, by the way, is the context where the idea first gained traction, being popularized among the Jesuits in the early 19th century–anyways before Pope Francis, when you were talking about social justice in a Catholic context, you were talking about Pope Leo and Rerum Novarum, published in 1891 as a critique of modern economic systems from Capitalism to Communism and all over, emphasizing the fundamental importance of worker’s rights given, well, the fundamental importance of workers themselves, as human beings with divine dignity. The Church has been revisiting Rerum Novarum on a regular basis ever since, and Pope Leo has explicitly centered it for those wondering what to expect from his papacy. To borrow the language of a generation slightly ahead of me, it’s based, so get hype.
Of course lots of people are wondering what Pope Leo will get up to beyond these key starts of peace, unity, and social justice in the mold of so many of his predecessors. We can be here all day and I still won’t be able to comment on every individual topic, nor will h e. We’ll see more of Pope Leo in the years to come. Of course we can look to his past comments on anything you like, but the basic reality is Robert Francis Prevost is dead, and Pope Leo XIV is a different man. At least, he may be, anyhow. History has shown election to the Papacy can change folks, but it’s also shown that that’s not always the case. Sorry to disappoint those looking for surefire answers, we’ll find out together in the coming years and quite possibly decades, as, at 69, Pope Leo will likely be with us for a generation.
BUT, and this is a big but, I do think from what he’s indicated so far and from the apparent expectations of the Cardinals who elected him, not to mention historical patterns, I do think it’s very likely that Pope Leo will, on the whole, prove to be something of a centrist. That’s not to say that he’ll be middle-of-the-road on all issues–I really do expect him to lean into the Leonine legacy of Rerum Novarum-style social and economic justice with a major encyclical on the topic within the next few years–but on average I do not expect him to be as progressive as Pope Francis or as conservative as Pope Benedict. Again, how exactly that all will shake out remains to be seen, and I am very bad at making predictions anyways. After all, when I got asked directly about the possibility of an American Pope, I gave a simple “no” and moved on. In my defense, apparently the future Pope Leo did the same, allegedly telling his brother “they’re not going to pick an American Pope” on the eve of the conclave that did just that.
Now I want to take a moment to thank some non-podcasters who have been very supportive of my work the last few years, specifically the priests at my home parish of Saint Francis de Sales. Shoutout Fr. Mike, Fr. PC, and Fr. Sizemore, who have all supported me in various ways both in relation to the podcast and off-mic. In particular I want to thank Fr. PC for helping review my upcoming worldbuilding episodes on mass and the Eucharist to make sure I didn’t go too far off the rails, and Fr. Sizemore for his consistent support and encouragement of my work, as well as his willingness to promote it. Longtime listeners know that I am willing to set aside the Pope-colored glasses to offer necessary critiques of the Church at times–indeed, necessary critiques are actually themselves part of Pope-colored glasses anyways. It’s been very cool to have that support even when offering that criticism at times, and I am, of course, grateful.
To give a little more personal insight, I think it’s worth noting that I’m bringing Fr Sizemore and Fr PC up in part because they’re on my mind and in my prayers a little extra these days since they are going to another parish as part of the normal juggling that occurs with basically any diocese. Back in the day such moves were less common, and could indeed be signs of darker things, but more recent practice has keeping priests from staying at a particular parish for too extended a period as a guard against exactly such dark things as may occur when a pastor is seen as the absolute bedrock of a faith community and is effectively given all sorts of extra deference and leeway and such to an inappropriate degree. In the end, Christ is the foundation, it’s not about any particular pastor. Nevertheless, I will miss Fr Sizemore deeply, as excited as I am to see what he does at his new parish, and as excited as I am to meet our new pastor, Father Tom Gardner, and the other priest and a half that are coming to Saint Francis as part of the general shuffle. Interestingly, this will have our household lined up with a relatively young priest, a relatively young bishop, and a relatively young Pope, so these positions are likely going to be set in my life for a while yet.
And now that we’ve talked a bit about the future of my home parish, let’s talk about the future of Popeular History.
First, as you’ve already seen if you’re caught up on the feed, I have some content from Conclave Time still being edited and prepared for release on this feed. In the last week or so you’ve seen my chat with Benjamin Jacobs of Wittenberg to Westphalia and Why Tho?, who had me on as his guest of his 100th episode for the former. He’s more like me than most, so if you enjoy this, go check him out. And if you don’t enjoy this, well, I’m confused as to the sequence of events that has you somehow still listening, but even then, you should *also* still go check him out. Just in case. You never know.
Also already released is a chat with Meredith of The Alexander Standard, another Rexypod in the mold of Cardinal Numbers and of course Pontifacts, reviewing, rating, and ranking all the successors of Alexander the Great from Perdiccas to Cleopatra VII. Meredith bravely volunteered to take the first spot on what was a near nightly guest list during the recent sede vacante, and we had a great chat that you should go check out if you haven’t already.
Still to come most likely this month is a very extended conversation I had with Steve Guerra of the History of the Papacy Podcast, a collaboration that was pretty long overdue. I first reached out to Steve over five years ago when Popeular History was just starting out, but I was too timid to propose a collaboration at the time. I was actually still too timid to suggest such a thing when Pope Francis’ fading health got us talking again earlier this year, but fortunately for all of us Steve had no such scruples and when he suggested we get together over a couple of mics, well, so far we’ve got hours of good stuff that will be ready for your ears very shortly, I just wanted to get all this admin stuff and early Leo discussion out first so I did. But you can expect hours of Steve and I on this feed soon, and if you just can’t wait–don’t! Bec ause it’s already out on his feed at the History of the Papacy Podcast. Part III talking Leo specifically is already in the works, with hopefully more to come from Steve and I collaborating in the years to come.
After that, you’ll hear a chat I had with Quinn from Nobelesse Oblige, one half of another rexypod that ranks all the nobel laureates from 1901 until he and cohost Maggie run out of people. Their show was on hiatus, but is back now, so rejoice! All the best shows go on hiatus, like, a lot, amirite? Look, subscribe and you’ll know when any shows with that particular habit get back. Anyways, that’s gonna be another conclave second helping episode.
The third on the conclave second helping trilogy, likely appearing early next month at this rate with apologies to my patient guest, will be a great chat I had right before the doors were sealed with none other than Garry Stevens of the History in the Bible podcast, in which I fielded his conclave questions and talked about the recent movie as well. Thank you as always, Garry, especially for your patience as I edited my way through our chat!
After that puts a cap on my conclave coverage, it’ll be high time to release the previously mentioned chat I had with Roberto of Tsar Power and more, right before Pope Francis passed.
And there you go, that’s the plan for the next month or so. After all that, it’ll be 5th anniversary time, and I think it’ll be fun to do a bit of Q&A for that. The anniversary will officially on June 29th, so let’s go ahead and say send in almost any question you like to [email protected] by June 20th and I’ll answer it for you on the show. The only limit I’m placing is that the question should be relatively family-friendly so I don’t get flagged as explicit content by the powers that be.
After that, well, we’ll see. Popeular History and Cardinal Numbers will be carrying on, I’m looking forward to finishing my longrunning Catholic worldbuilding series, as well as covering all the living Cardinals I haven’t gotten to yet. And those items just represent finishing up the current stages. Plus, tere’s gonna be more Pontifacts collaboration, including the much hyped Habemus Pointsam project, ranking all the Papal transitions with Bry! But do keep in mind I had *just* put out a note indicating that I was going to stay on hiatus for a while longer right before all this happened, and the factors that lead me to that are still present. I’ve got a strong head of steam for when I’m officially back up to full production, but until then, you won’t hear from me quite as regularly as I’d like. Actually, let’s be honest, you’re never going to hear from me as regularly as I’d like unless there’s a wealthy patron who wants to hand over a living wage for myself and my family as compensation for me doing this full-time. And nah, I’m not counting on that. I do have a patreon though, so if you want to help offset my costs and fuel Taco Bell expeditions or moving to Rome, you know, little things like that, you can. Mary specifically said I can get Taco Bell every time I get a new patron, so thank you very much in advance. Also, a big thank you to Joe, my current patron, who hosts Prime Factors with his son Abram, and yes that’s another Rexypod, in fact, yes, that’s another Rexypod ranking the British Prime Ministers! Prime Time is the other one in case you’ve already forgotten, and now you can easily find both of them on one another’s feeds as they recently did a collaborative special you should absolutely check out! I especially owe Joe as I forgot to keep mentioning him when speeding through my recent sede vacante coverage, a situation which will be remedied hopefully in small part by this note, and then eventually with judicious editing. Thanks again for your support, Joe!
If you’d like to support my work and are financially able to do so, go to Patreon.com/popeular. I’m going to do as much as I can even without many patrons, but more patron support would go a long way to making things easier, I have to admit. So if you want to join Joe on the wall of ongoing thanks, there are still spots left! And if you can’t support financially, no sweat, do what you gotta do, but please consider spreading the word about Popeular History and keeping me and my family in prayer while you’re at it. Words of encouragement or any other words you’d like to send can be sent to [email protected] or you can also find me on social media in a few spots, primarily on Bluesky these days at Popeular as I’m focusing more on direct content creation rather than trying to keep up with socials and the website and such. Oh, speaking of the website, Google Domains went caput so the website’s kind of frozen, not that I was updating it much anyways apart from the automatic RSS feeds, which for what it’s worth are still chugging along. But the rest you can ignore, in particular the big daily show announcement that’s still up there, because that was fun while it lasted but that is definitely on the list of things that are not happening unless I get thousands of patreon dollars a month to make this a full-time job, which, again, I am realistic enough to not expect. It just turns out I can’t take that notification down without tanking the whole site at the moment, or without, you know, a fair amount of extra work, and since the RSS feeds are still handy and my time is still fairly crunched, I’m reluctant to do that. So, uh, here we are. Awkward. Ignore the big daily show announcement. Thank you.
Now, I’m going to make a couple specific predictions about the future of Leo’s papacy that I’d be happy to be wrong about. But before I do *that*, I want to note that after today, apart from the contemporary cardinals episodes, I plan to get back to history, leaving current events to other commentators generally, with the exception of a plan to have some commentary on contemporary news, Catholic and otherwise, available as bonus content for my Patreon subscribers. That would allow my regular listeners to have access to all the historical goodies I find without barrier, while still offering something interesting and informative, you know, hopefully, for my backers. If you hate the idea, let me know, and of course if you love the idea, sure, let me know that too. I’m thinking maybe some kind of monthly roundup, something like that.
Anyways, on to those predictions.
First, while I genuinely believe we would have seen Sister Rafaella Petrini elevated to the College of Cardinals had Pope Francis lived to create another batch of Cardinals, I do not see that happening under Pope Leo, though he did reconfirm her in her role as President of the Governorate of Vatican City State as part of his general “as you were” instructions right after his election, reconfirming all of Pope Francis’ appointments in one of the more unambiguous signs of continuity you can have. It’s of course likely that there will be shuffling in time, but I think Petrini is safe in her role, I just don’t expect her to be the first Cardinelle at the next opportunity, as Leo appears interested in a degree of centrist rapprochement.
Similarly, while I had fairly big hopes for the observances of the 1700th anniversary of Nicea that were due this month, namely a reunified dating of Easter, obviously those observances aren’t happening right now. And, while it look like there are now plans for later this year, around the Feast of Saint Andrew–November 30th–I think that moment has passed, and I expect it’s not something we’ll see in year one of a Papacy. Again, I’d be happy to be wrong, but I don’t think that’s a “coming super soon” type situation at this point.
And that’s it for today, thanks for sitting through a record-breaking amount of admin. Thanks, Joe!
