Presence Pioneers: A Worship, Prayer and Revival Podcast

In today's episode, Matthew talks to Trace Vining, a young prayer house leader from Starkville, Mississippi.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

Trace @ New Horizon • http://www.newhorizonsworship.com/trace_vining.html

Trace on Instagram • https://www.instagram.com/tracevining/?hl=en

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

Trace's journey as a prayer leader began when he was in the 9th grade! In his personal prayer time, he was struck with the revelation " When we pray, He comes" - and so he decided they should be praying more. He and a few friends from youth group started meeting at the church after school and praying for hours. He had no paradigm for understanding what he was doing(neither did his church leaders at the time!), but felt strongly that it was what God wanted.

He eventually discovered places like IHOP-KC and realized he wasn't alone! He took this with him when he left for college and carried a vision for more and more prayer - starting at 72 hours once a month, and building from there.

They have a great discussion about the "sleeping giant" of traditional churches in the U.S., about facing resistance when branching out in something new like Spirit-filled prayer. But they also both feel a shift happening, and believe God is doing something in those churches. If you find yourself in one of those churches, keep praying for them!

Psalm 139 has been very impactful for Trace. It brought real encouragement during this Covid season, when many leaders have struggled with the decision to keep gathering or not. It lifted him up to consider the character of God in Psalm 139, that coming together to pray meant talking face to face with a God who knows us better than anyone. As Matthew points out, many house of prayer leaders start these prayer ministries for revival, but eventually they all realize that the real prize is just God's presence, and revival is simply a byproduct.

So who has stepped in and helped as a mentor for this very young leader? Local pastors. There was a church in his home state of Alabama that was very helpful and supportive that launched a campus in Mississippi as Trace was moving there for college, and then after getting married the local church was actually able to host their prayer room. Just regular pastors being willing to say yes to a young guy with big vision, and also showing up and praying alongside him.

Matthew asks Trace to speak to those older ones in the church - how can those of us that are beyond the college/young adult phase of life help pour into what's happening in the generations behind us? Trace says that showing up and praying with these younger kids is a lot more impactful than you probably realize. It may look different than it looked when you were in that season, but Trace says it's about honoring each generation.

And what about the younger ones? Trace says sometimes you have to just wait. They had a vision for a prayer room in 2015 but didn't see it until 2017. He also says you have to be willing to change your mind, pay attention to what's happening, and be humble enough to learn. Don't be afraid to ask for spiritual mothers and fathers - don't be afraid to be the one to reach out.

What about the struggles? For Trace, hosting on a college campus means losing people every time someone graduates. It's hard to pour in so hard, and then watch the seasons shift in ways beyond your control. But Trace goes back to Psalm 139 - it's about God, and He doesn't change.

So what's ahead for their crew? Trace says they felt like God wanted them to go back to their roots - those small living room gatherings. They didn't totally understand, but then Covid hit and suddenly it made sense! They want to reach out to more small towns, to people that may feel like hosting prayer isn't something that could happen where they live, and some alongside and equip those people. And Trace is doing more worship, hoping to travel some with that in the future.

But their heartbeat, he says, is that ongoing prayer.

In this quick teaching, Matthew goes through Luke 18 to find the keys Jesus gives us to be faithful in prayer.

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

"We won't pray until we hear His word, and He won't delay when He hears our prayers."

When you look at this story in Luke 18, you first have to understand that this isn't a comparison - it's a contrast. He's saying that if a widow can get a judge who is openly unjust to grant her justice, how much more will God, our Good Father, answer our prayers? It's important to understand that we are approaching a loving Father, and not an angry judge, when we pray. In Luke 11, He touches on this again contrasting earthly fathers and our Heavenly Father.

So the secret here would appear to be that when it comes to prayer, it's not understanding prayer itself that matters as much as understanding Who we're praying to.

We also have to pay attention to who God says we are - we aren't coming as a widow, or a slave, but as a son or daughter. We have a relationship with God that gives us access to come close to Him and lay out our requests.

Then, He connects consistent prayer to having faith. You can also catch that thought in Romans 10:17 - the idea that faith is being aligned with His Word. What that means is, we're reading the Bible and and believing it, so we are praying it - and that builds faith. Who God is, who we are, and what He wants to do on the Earth are what we find in the Bible that we have faith in. So that's what we pray and how we pray.

What is God's justice that it says He'll pour out? It's His kingdom coming down. As He comes, He will confront evil and injustice in the world and in our own hearts. Now, God could do all of this by Himself in an instant, but He loves to work in partnership with humanity to bring His kingdom. That happens through prayer and intercession.

The ultimate culmination of this will be Jesus coming back, which is the end goal of every prayer. That's what the Bible points us to, and that's where our hearts can find hope to keep praying.

In today's episode, Matthew connects with Brad Stroup, a prayer leader from the Dallas-Fort Worth area in Texas. They discuss Brad's story and what it's like to sustain daily prayer meetings, nonstop, for 15 years!

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

The Prayer Room DFW • http://www.theprayerroomdfw.com/

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE VIA EMAIL • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

MORE RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneers/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneers/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Brad actually started out as a missionary in North Africa, but felt called away from that - so he stepped away, not knowing for sure what was next. In an encounter with the Holy Spirit, he heard very clearly that he was to start a 5 am prayer meeting the NEXT DAY and not stop until Jesus came back. He laughs that he had no idea what he was saying yes to, but said yes anyway. The next morning, he and a group of young adults started this prayer meeting at his home, and they've gone every day for the last 15 years! It's gone from just that 5 am meeting to an extended group of sets, now from 5 am to 1 am, every single day.

It started as a drive for revival for Brad, but as he went along, he felt more and more that it was simply because Jesus is worthy. It's about rallying a group of people to express their love to God. And, he says, it's how God gets His kingdom done!

They started this prayer meeting not knowing why or what to pray. So, Brad says, they prayed 2 things : first, for more people (he jokes that they grew from 11 people to 3 people very quickly). And people started showing up! Random connections started occurring that led to their numbers actually going up instead of down. Second, they prayed for more houses of prayer to open up all over their area. Brad says they weren't even sure why they prayed this, but they had to pray something. They started getting phone calls months later from the people starting these houses of prayer in these specific locations they'd prayed for, and eventually there were 30 houses of prayer in their city!

Matthew then asks Brad to share the bible verses that have encouraged and sustained him over the years in this calling. His daily Bible reading plan the day they started was 2 Samuel 24, where David bought the dirt that would later be where the tabernacle was built. David refuses gifts from another man to use as sacrifices, making a profound statement : "I will not offer sacrifices to the Lord that cost me nothing." This was encouragement to Brad, who was struggling with this brand new calling that didn't look like the missions work he wanted to do. He accepted that this would be a sacrifice, and that sacrifices have a cost. Giving of time and resources to God, he says, can't always come out of the abundance - sometimes it has to come out of lack. Just like the widow with the 2 mites, the tiniest offering that really is all we've got left is often the most touching to God's heart.

So what have been the hardest parts of this journey? For Brad, it's been the transience of people in the prayer room. Of course, they'd prefer to have people be in it for life, but more often than not people are there for a season and then it's time for them to move on. It's hard to be the guy left over with the calling when everyone else gets to shift in and out sometimes! But it's important, Brad says, to love people well in the transitions.

Lastly, Matthew asks Brad about the importance of consistency. Brad says it's all about the schedule. The single most important administrative role in the prayer movement is creating a schedule that people can stick to. It's a lot of communicating, and shuffling, and readjusting. He compares it to WalMart - the only reason you can decide to go to WalMart anytime is because someone put together a schedule so that someone will always be there! They use the term "sacred trust" for the time commitment a person makes. They choose a 2 hour block somewhere within the prayer room's schedule and commit to be there every week. It's simple, but it lets people get in the door and experience it.

Want to engage? Check out their internship! You can check out their live stream, but of course Brad encourages us to come on down and get in the room.

In this episode, Matthew shares a teaching from Facebook Live that he gave for Cassidy Campbell, a leader in Texas. He saved that video so that he could share it with the Presence Pioneers community as well!

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

Cassidy on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cassidyshawna.campbell

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Cassidy starts by asking, what is the deal with ministering to God? Does Jesus even need to be ministered to? Matthew quotes Kirk Bennett as saying that not only is it important, it's the most important thing we should do! A lot of people think that you have to be called into ministry, but if you look at Acts 13:1-3, it says that they were all ministering to the Lord, and then Paul and Barnabas got called out to go. That would indicate that everyone ministers, not just those who are called "Ministers".

But does God need ministry? That takes a shift in what we consider ministry. We don't help God or give Him something He doesn't have when we minister to Him. However, when we worship Him, we give Him something He loves. 1 Peter 2:9 says that we are a "royal priesthood" - every believer. So what do priests do? They interact with God, they worship and they offer sacrifices.

That was how ministry to God worked in the Old Testament. Now we are to offer "spiritual sacrifices" like these, as His priests:

Romans 12:1 says that we offer our bodies as sacrifices. This would be laying down our hearts and lives for Him.

Hebrews 13:15 says to offer the sacrifice of praise - that's where our worship comes in. Worship is not for us - it's not about enjoying the music or the moment - it's for God.

Revelation 5:8 says that the elders are offering incense to God, and that incense is the prayers of the saints. So our prayers are a "pleasing aroma" to God that actually brings Him delight!

So when you worship and pray, Matthew says to literally imagine Jesus there - because He is - and know that He is smiling! Cassidy jumps in to point out that this is similar to how we interact with our kids. A parent does not need their child, but they bring so much joy and delight. As Matthew puts it, while this is our duty to minister to God, it is also our Joy. God is a good Father who designed our duty to be the thing that brings us the greatest fulfillment.

Intimacy with Jesus should also be our starting point for everything, but we often skip it because we're chasing our vision and other ministries. And yet, this is where all the power comes from for all those other callings! It's how Jesus started the Church - He told them to go and tarry and pray until the Holy Spirit came, and once the power came, they could rush out with power.

It can feel silly, to be sure. Sitting in a room alone singing and praying doesn't seem like a great use of our time. But if we can understand that we are ministering straight to God's heart and bringing Him Joy when we do that, it'll change everything. As Mike Bickle puts it, there are lovers and workers - and the lovers get way more done than the workers do.

In the garden, in the very beginning, Adam and Eve were put there to be priests and kings. Genesis 2:15 says He put man there to "tend and keep it". But when you realize that Moses wrote Genesis, in the middle of the Israelites caring for the Tabernacle, it jumps out that the phrase "tend and keep it" actually refers to priestly work in the sanctuary. So it would be more accurate to call the Garden of Eden a tabernacle or a sanctuary! The people of Israel, who Moses was writing for, would've read it as a priests job, not a gardener's. God literally created humans to fill the earth with worship from the beginning! So when we minister to Him, we are connecting in with God's original vision for humanity, and our calling from the beginning of time.

In this episode, Matthew interviews Jason Hershey, the founder of David's Tent DC. They go into the history, the victories, and the struggles.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

David's Tent • http://davidstentdc.org

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

Matthew starts by asking Jason for his backstory - how on earth did he end up hosting a 24/7 worship tent on the National Mall for 5 years (and counting)? Jason started out in Lancaster, PA with a Mennonite pastor/dairy farmer for a father, working on the farm with his family. He feels he truly accepted Jesus after his brother came back from a mission trip to Asia, when Jason was 19. It was his first introduction to Grace. At 22, he joined YWAM and hoped to go to the nations full time, but he realized God was calling him to intercede for the U.S. This meant he moved his young family to DC, and began connecting with groups like JHOP, led by Lou Engle. In 2009 and 2010, he went through what he calls a "pruning season", where his entire team left him and his wife there in DC and he had to lean into what God had said. He just started going to any prayer meeting he could find! In 2011, he did a 72 day fast with Lou Engle and the Circuit Rider Movement, and what was birthed out of that was David's Tent. They went to the parks service to find a spot for 40 days to start, hoping to find a side park to set up, and they suggested them setting up on the Ellipse instead, in view of the White House. So they did 40 days in 2012 and 2013, 50 days in 2014, and on September 11th, 2015 (in honor of Amos 9:11), they began the 24/7 model that's still going today.

Matthew then asks him to expound on that pruning season - it's a pretty common setback for people with big vision. So what did Jason learn in that season? He calls it "the dark night of the soul". His advice is simply Isaiah 35 - Be strong, fear not, your God will come. It's tempting to believe what's happening is your fault, but he insists that if you can trust God, you will come out of the wilderness "leaning on your Beloved", with deeper intimacy. God isn't pruning the ministry, He's pruning us.

Looking back at David's Tent over the last 9 years, Jason recalls the cookie jar. They have a prayer request cookie jar in the tent, where anyone passing through can write down a prayer request and then the staff will pray over it for 2 weeks. They've averaged 400-700 prayer requests in that cookie jar EVERY MONTH! Most of the time, there are 3-10 people in the tent, not huge crowds. It's actually random people off the street - joggers will stop in, write it down, and jog out. Jason believes this proves that people are hungry for God. One woman flew back to DC from Georgia just to tell them that her daughter had been healed of depression after she put it in the cookie jar!

That's one of the special things about the tent setup - people can just wander in and experience what God's doing. Committing to 24/7 prayer is "weird" enough, but committing to do it outdoors takes it to another level. Jason definitely got ostracized a bit for wanting to do prayer "instead of" missions, but he's watched them converge at David's Tent in a powerful way.

So what are some of the challenges of sustaining this for years? Basically, he says, prayer doesn't END the conflict - it starts it. You're poking at things that the enemy wants left alone, and that will lead to attack. Often, it's through relationships that he attacks, which can be heartbreaking. The other challenge is the nightwatch - he jokes that people are into the nightwatch for about 2 weeks tops. There's also been a rise in issues with the homeless, since Covid has shut down the shelters. But Jason says the solution is to rejoice, and be glad that you can see the big picture.

The team there believes in building from the Father's House - He must be the strength of the house. They must be going deeper on a heart level, and not just powering through. It can't just be in the tent - it must be in our lives.

In this episode, Matthew discusses the significance of mountains in scripture and how they relate to our access to God's presence. There's even a little pyramid/Babel talk in there. It's a short teaching, so give it a quick listen!

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Matthew starts in the Garden of Eden, where many scholars believe there actually was a mountain. In Ezekiel 28, there seems to be a hint at that - "you were in Eden...you were on the holy mountain of God". This would indicate that God had a mountain in Eden where He dwelt. It makes sense, then, that soon after humanity was kicked out of this garden, that in order to be like God they tried building the tower of Babel! In their experience, mountaintop heights were synonymous with God's presence. Matthew believes that's why in ancient history, people built pyramids and ziggurats to get closer to their gods.

Moving forward in scripture, we look at the first time the word worship is used - and it's Abraham taking Isaac up the mountain as a sacrifice. Later, when God is bringing His people out of Egypt, He says it's so they can worship - and He brings them to Mt. Sinai. That's where Moses has the incredible encounter with His presence where He calls them a kingdom of priests! It's almost like God wanted to remind them of the access Adam and Eve had to Him in the garden, and to restore that access to His people. They didn't get it in fullness, but that seems like what was in God's heart.

The next moment would be on Mount Zion - where David established his tent. Then, when the temple was established, it was on Mt. Moriah. Christian tradition even leans towards Jesus being crucified on a hill (although it doesn't specifically say that in scriptures).

So when God says He wants to manifest His presence, it seems to include mountains very often in scripture. Psalm 24:3 asks, "Who may ascend the hill of the Lord? And who may stand in His holy place?" This shows a link between ascending a hill or mountain and then being in God's holy place.

Looking more closely at Mount Zion, Matthew points out that while it's a very important mountain in scripture, the only structure even built on it was David's tent. Zion grows in its meaning as scripture progresses, sometimes meaning the actual mountain, sometimes Jerusalem, and sometimes meaning the entire nation of Israel. It became used as a place of worship AND of government.

Psalm 9:11 says to sing to the Lord, who sits enthroned in Zion. Isaiah 56 shows God saying that He will "bring them to My holy mountain and make them joyful in My house of prayer". There are dozens of scriptures connecting God's presence to mountains, specifically Zion!

But we worship a King - Psalm 110 says He's ruling out of Zion. So it's not just a place of worship, but of authority and rule. Psalm 48 calls Zion the city of the Great King.

In Hebrews 12, the writer brings up Mt. Zion to say that because of Jesus we have access again. This is where "Zion" changes to meaning a heavenly place. We don't have to be in Jerusalem anymore to ascend the hill. We have access, through Jesus, to God's presence where we are.

And God calls us to be a generation of priests - so His heart is that we use that access He's provided us, through giving up His Son, to come be in His presence. We are called to advance His kingdom on the earth for His glory, as his priests.

In this encore of episode 2, Matthew Lilley continues in Psalm 132 and asks the question... What does it look like for God’s glory [manifest presence] to rest upon a region?

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE VIA EMAIL • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

MORE RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneers/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneers/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

King David’s vision was not primarily about his personal breakthrough. He was longing for something to impact his city and nation. He was longing for corporate breakthrough and revival. He wanted the entire nation to experience what he had personally experienced through his personal relationship with God.

This vision caused David to to make a radical vow before God to avoid sleep until God's presence rested in his city. David was saying that he would do anything that he could to see God’s presence among His people. This is the heart of a presence pioneer.

In this first Presence Pioneers podcast episode, Matthew Lilley teaches part one on the heart of a Presence Pioneer. After briefly discussing the history of the term “presence pioneers”, Matthew dives into Psalm 132 to explore how Presence Pioneers have connected to the zeal of Jesus and it has caused them to be zealous for His presence in their lives and on the earth.

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE VIA EMAIL • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

MORE RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneers/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneers/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Understanding David’s longing for a dwelling place for God in Israel as expressed in Psalm 132 requires us to step back and look at David’s personal desire for God’s presence in His life and the reproach & afflictions that came along with it.

In this episode, Matthew talks with Trey Kent, a pastor from Texas and leader of the groups Unceasing Prayer and America Prays, which unite churches all across the United States for prayer.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

America Prays • http://americaprays.org

Unceasing Prayer • http://austinprays.org

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Matthew starts off by having Trey clarify what exactly started this Austin Prays movement. It began 12 years ago with the thought, "What if 31 different churches each took a day a month and covered the city in 24/7 prayer?" Trey wasn't aware of the prayer movement at the time - he just heard God's heart for Austin and went with it. As this thing progressed, he realized that the prayer movement has sort of bypassed pastors, and the local church, and felt that pastors needed to step up. Trey and Matthew both believe this is the direction the prayer movement is going - engaging local church communities, and becoming part of the DNA of the Church.

Now there are 100 churches in Austin, each taking 12 days of 24 hours of prayer a year (as they've grown, churches are now overlapping and sharing days). They don't have a set of rules for how it should look for everyone- each church can decide how they want to cover those hours. And they started planning for 2021 this past summer, so that it can just keep growing into its 13th year. Trey jokes about how they're not at the "Moravian level" yet, where they had a revival that kicked off over 100 years of night and day prayer, but he loves the model of planning for it to continue - he says there are documents from the period showing that people would bequeath their prayer time slot to their child upon death! The First and Second Great Awakening happened during this Moravian prayer movement, and we haven't had another Great Awakening since. Trey believes that's no coincidence.

He's seen a lot of heart changes in the local pastors and churches as this has grown. There's something about extended times of prayer that makes people hungry for more. As they've persevered, it has naturally spread and grown into America Prays. Beyond that, they are reaching churches in OTHER countries now, helping them start night and day prayer in their cities across the world. He invites everyone to join into the prayer movement, to be part of this incredible time in history. As he puts it, if they can do it in Austin, Texas, you can do it anywhere.

If you have a heart for your city and want to see this kind of prayer happening where you are, Trey encourages you to use the resources on their website (linked above), reach out to your pastor, and go for it! Focus on your local church first, he says, and then you can reach out to other local churches as you have some consistency and start to grow towards the 31 days. It will spread! As Trey puts it, very simply - you want to see your city changed? Then, pray for it.

As a closing thought, Trey says that the "house of prayer" goes from an individual level to family, to churches, to nationwide, to worldwide. Realizing that it's part of our identity as believers, all the time, will change our hearts and our cities. He encourages you to ask God what the next step is for you, and then step out in it. He will take you places you never imagined.

In this episode, Matthew speaks with Benjamin Nunez, a house of prayer leader who began in Mexico and is now at IHOP Kansas City. They discuss what it looks like to pray faithfully, even in crisis, and what it can do for individuals and nations.

//The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.//

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Benjamin starts by sharing his story a bit - he was raised by Christian parents, accepted Jesus early in his childhood, and always enjoyed being around ministry that was happening. But as a young adult, the vision became clearer. He remembers realizing that his generation was called to something different, and feeling that God was calling him specifically to build a house of prayer. But what God said to him spoke very deeply - "I want you to build because I want you." The impact of God's love for him changed his life. It prepared him for the crisis of the war with the cartels in Mexico, when his little prayer house became a hub for the country and they launched 72 more houses of prayer over 10 years.

In 2007, he remembers a push to legalize abortion in his state in Mexico, which is really progressive - and God told his little prayer group to fast for 3 days. The vote was looking like 70% in favor of abortion, and they knew that if change happened , it would have to be God. The day of the vote, they learned that the most pro-abortion legislator in the state had shown up drunk to vote and had accidentally swung the vote in favor of pro-life. He talks about how they prayed in a way that made them check the newspapers the next day, to see what God had done through their prayers. Amazing perspective!

Next, Matthew asks about the tension between the kingdom being here, but also the kingdom still being yet to come. We're longing for Jesus to return, but we're also praying for change now. As Benjamin puts it, the Kingdom is in Heaven, but through prayer we have access to it. He knows that God says that darkness will increase towards the end, but that it's for our good so that we can be humbled and see His power.

Benjamin thinks the biggest mistake he made as a young leader was lack of humility and meekness. He now sees the wisdom of the biblical command to submit to your leaders - not because they're right, but because of what it does in YOUR heart. The scripture that says that God resists the proud lit a fire under him - as he puts it, "I'd rather have 10,000 demons chasing me than God resisting me." The other piece of advice is to learn from dead people. Someone told him once that you don't have enough time on earth to make every mistake and learn from it, but you can read the stories and lessons of those who have gone before you and receive the wisdom without having to make all the mistakes.

So what's God doing right now, in our time of crisis? Benjamin agrees with Matthew that God is trying to form humility. As he points out, God is preparing us to marry a Lamb. We're going to the marriage supper of the Lamb, not a warrior. So humility will allow His church to be equally yoked with her Bridegroom. He admits that while it's okay to pray for life to get easier, the Bible says that discipline makes us Holy. He knows from the pressure they were under in Mexico that the pressure we're feeling now will force those who are on the fence, or lukewarm, to decide once and for all where they stand. God wants our hearts - He wants us. That's why He's willing to let us feel some pressure, to give us the opportunity to choose Him.

To close, Matthew asks Benjamin to share his thoughts on Satan as the accuser of the brethren, as he's called in Revelation. As Benji points out, Satan can be called any horrible thing you can think of - murderer, liar, etc - but his final identity, revealed in Revelation, is Accuser. That's his main point of authority, and it's his main tool against the Church. If he can get us to participate in accusing each other, or God, or ourselves, he can keep us from participating in God's plan. At the end of things, though, when Satan is cast down, the Unity of the Church is manifested and the Kingdom can come down. But Benjamin says we shouldn't wait until then - we know Satan's plan and should actively work with God to dismantle it. What an incredible calling!