Presence Pioneers: A Worship, Prayer and Revival Podcast

In this episode, Matthew reconnects with Kirk Bennett, a senior leader at IHOP-KC who launched a house of prayer in Charlotte, NC that impacted Matthew's own journey in learning how to pray. They discuss Kirk's process over the course of his life on learning how to meditate on scripture to sustain praying for long stretches of time.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

Kirk's Website • http://7thunders.org

Bible Meditation Made Simple • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcP1MkLUKsc

Kirk's Facebook Group • https://www.facebook.com/groups/639260839570070/

Book Mentioned by Kirk on Martyrs • https://www.amazon.com/Their-Blood-Christian-Martyrs-Twentieth/dp/0801065151

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

They start the conversation with Kirk's backstory, from church experience to salvation to the beginnings of corporate worship as we know it. He remembers always being hungry for more, but not always having a blueprint for how to get there. He was involved with some connections in Vineyard, then later joined in with IHOP in Kansas City as they began. He's been a "prayer missionary" since 1999.

Kirk says the secret to day and night prayer is enjoyable prayer, encountering an enjoyable God.

Matthew points out that Kirk's teachings on meditating on the Bible is what has helped so many people find this place of enjoyable prayer, including Matthew himself. Admittedly, meditation often conjures up some image of eastern mysticism or something "new age", but Kirk argues that it's a biblical concept. You won't really find much in the Bible about studying the Bible, aside from Timothy( "Study to show yourself approved") - which actually means "being repetitive" more than something academic. Speaking to Joshua in the Old Testament, God tells him to meditate on the book day and night! This is really the first instruction in the Bible on how to use the Bible. Kirk compares studying versus meditation to drinking milk versus eating real food - he calls it "chewing the word".

This began for Kirk in 1997 when he was on staff at Mike Bickle's church, where a standard for the staff was to spend 8 hours a week in the prayer room. He jokes that the reason he was called to be such a strong advocate for prayer is because he was the least likely to do it! He struggled to sit through his 8 hours each week, feeling bored and a little lost. He confided in a friend in the prayer room that he wasn't sure what to do, so his friend introduced him to apostolic prayers. He tried it, with 3 verses, and went back to his friend since only a few minutes had passed and he was out of ideas again. His friend told him to pray it again. Kirk was a little confused by that and asked him, "Didn't God hear me?" and his friend said something to him that marked his life. He replied, "Yeah, God heard you, but you didn't hear you. Pray the prayer again." Kirk refers to this as being discipled in prayer. His time in the prayer room shifted from praying to God to interacting with God, to enjoying prayer with an enjoyable God.

Kirk also compares this to a child learning a language. They basically have to mumble the same few phrases over and over before it's natural and they understand what they're saying. Eventually, a real language is developed and communication is happening. In Hebrew, meditation actually means to mumble over and over! Kirk believes it's as simple as that.

The 5 ways Kirk teaches that the Bible tells us to meditate are:

1- Read the Bible

2 - Write the Bible

3 - Say the Bible

4 - Sing the Bible

5 - Pray the Bible

Kirk talks about writing the word because it seems silly, since we already have it printed out. But to copy it down, you have to stop and think about each few words before writing them. This builds memory and intimacy that brings the scriptures to life! It really goes beyond the pursuit of theology.

In closing, Kirk speaks to the season we're in out of Psalm 2. He says in the hours where everything is shaking, the response is to worship. Specifically to "rejoice, tremble, and kiss the Son" from that passage. If we cease worship when things are bad, we essentially are saying He's no longer worthy. It's an invitation to a higher place, to be in alignment with Heaven instead of swept up in Earth's chaos. Even with the limits in place, you can gather "2 or 3" to pray. He says in prayer right now, small is the new big.

To put it simply, his response to those prayer meetings and prayer rooms is : Don't stop.

If you've ever struggled in prayer, this is the episode for you! Matthew has a quick teaching on using the prayers in the bible and how it can change us.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

Apostolic Prayers Download • http://bit.ly/ApostolicPrayers

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

So what are apostolic prayers? They are simply the prayers of the apostles in the Bible! Matthew says they can still be prayed by us, maybe when we're looking for the words or wanting to be sure we're praying for what God wants.

First of all, people in the Bible prayed the Bible! Matthew references even Jesus doing this : on the cross in Mark 15, He prays David's prayer from Psalm 22 , " My God, my God, why have You forsaken Me?" So if you're just sitting down with God and trying to think of what to say, open your Bible and communicate with God through the scriptures.

Secondly, there is power in the Word of God! You can speak to God as a friend, and pour out your heart, but there are times when you just don't know what to pray, or aren't sure you're praying for something that is necessarily God's will. So let your "journal prayers" be for just you and God in the secret place, and when you're praying for others, or praying with others, use these prayers in the Bible as a base. There is power in coming into agreement with God's Word - Isaiah 55 says it will not return without accomplishing what God wanted it to accomplish!

The Bible does help us be grounded theologically. Sometimes we can be praying the desires of their heart and not realize the Bible is not in alignment with what we're praying! Then, there are times when we need the Bible to give us the words. These biblical themes and ideas give us what Matthew calls a launch pad into our prayers with God.

The Bible also unifies the prayers of the Church. Praying these apostolic prayers brings unity when we're praying together in groups. Everyone in a christian setting can usually agree on the Bible being the word of God, so if we start our prayers there, we can pray together in unity, which is incredibly powerful.

When you look through these prayers, a few things stick out :

One, they are God-centered.

Two, they are positive prayers!

Three, they are aimed at the Church most often.

So some practical tips from Matthew? One, grab that list linked above! Also, let yourself dig into what these prayers are really saying and what it means about God's heart. Break them down into phrases you can pray and understand. You can also re-word these prayers in a language that feels more natural to you.

You can use these prayers for all different aspects of your life, and using the Bible means you will never run out of things to pray!

In this episode, Matthew gives a short teaching about what God is like.

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

In John 17, Jesus begins to pray for us. This gives us insight into the relationship of the Trinity. God Himself, in the Trinity, is a family- therefore, the basis for our unity is Their unity.

We also see that God and Jesus love each other. This shows how the bible can say that God IS love in 1 John 4:8, because within that one God, the three Persons love each other.

John Piper says it this way: " First, God is happy because He delights in Himself. God would be unjust if He valued anything more than what is supremely valuable, And He is supremely valuable! If He did not take infinite delight in His own Glory, He would be unrighteous because it is right to take delight in a person in proportion to the excellence of his glory," God is eternally love, delight, and joy in His very nature!

You can think of this communication within the Godhead as prayer, meaning there is priestly activity within God Himself. In Hebrews 3, calls Jesus apostle and high priest. Apostle means "Sent One". It describes people who are sent to advance the kingdom of God. Jesus is the first apostle, meaning He was the One sent to earth with the mission of bringing the kingdom of God to earth and bring us back to Him. Our calling to prayer and mission is a reflection of Jesus and apostle and high priest!

As a closing thought, Matthew says this : authority flows from intimacy. We are representing Jesus on the earth, and we can't represent Him if we don't know Him! Even Jesus came to earth with authority because of His intimacy with God in the Trinity - and we have the same calling.

In this episode, Matthew chats with Dr. Lester Ruth, author and historian at Duke Divinity School. They discuss the last 2000 years of Christian worship, and why we worship the way we do now.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

Reg Layzell • https://iversonministriesinternational.org/reg-layzell-apostle-of-praise-worship/

Lovin' On Jesus • https://www.amazon.com/Lovin-Jesus-Concise-History-Contemporary/dp/1426795130

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

To start with, Matthew asks Dr. Ruth why - why is church history important? Dr. Ruth points out that things are always evolving, and learning the history helps us understand the original motivation behind certain behaviors. He also says that learning the history can help us get out of a rut - his original motivation for looking into this.

They start with the current set up, and as Dr.. Ruth puts it, they "peel off the layers". Worship software is only an invention of the last 20 years. He recalls overhead projectors as a way for putting up the lyrics during worship (remember those?). In the 40's and 50's, there was NO projection of lyrics - songs had to be much simpler and easier to memorize. Guitars didn't become commonplace until the late 70's in worship. Some churches still had full orchestras in the 1970's! Before that, it was only pianos or organs. Even the term "worship leader" is and invention of the last 40 years, coming from the idea that we needed extended times of worship in our services. Prior to this shift, the person leading would've been called the "Song Leader".

So going back to the beginning - it was just singing. In the early church, instruments were too closely tied to pagan rituals, and therefore not allowed for use in Christian worship. It often had a "call and response" set up, to make it easier to know the lyrics for the congregation. Choirs catch on in the 4th century for Christians. Dr. Ruth points out that this changes the game because if you have a choir, you can rehearse, meaning you can get a bit more complex in your song choices for worship. By the middle ages, the choir never stands down - the entire service is basically musical. Matthew points out the similarity to the current set up at IHOP KC here! Dr. Ruth agrees, saying that not being able to tell time made early worship less hurried, and able to stay in a moment longer.

When did "modern worship" begin? In the late 40's, there were Christians (mainly in Canada) that felt inspired by Psalm 22:3, where it says that God inhabits our praise, and a revival broke out! That theology sort of reignited the Pentecostal movement, which had fallen into a rut of its own since the Azusa Street Revival in 1906. This caused some division within the movement at the time, but birthed the idea of extended worship in church services. This wasn't even necessarily singing yet, either! This would just be praising God, speaking out loud.

Their discussion about Reg Layzell is powerful - from around minute 20 to minute 35. There are resources about him linked above. Dr. Ruth calls Reg Layzell the most important theologian in the 20th century, even though most people have never heard of him. He put into practice praising God out loud, and trusting His promise in Psalm 22:3 that He would inhabit that praise. The way we worship now, all over the world, can be traced back to Reg and that verse in Psalms.

In this episode, Matthew chats with Jeremy Perigo - a university level educator who also helps build worship and prayer communities around the world. They discuss some of the friction that comes from being in those sometimes very different camps, as well as what Jeremy calls "indigenous songs".

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

Dordt University • https://www.dordt.edu/

Jeremy's Music • https://open.spotify.com/artist/69dOogwa62X3kr4bK5vUms

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Jeremy has been all over - London, the Middle East, and currently Iowa! Matthew points out right off the bat that Jeremy brings an interesting take, because he's an academic, working for different universities, but also very involved in the worship and prayer movement. He got his start because his youth pastor and another pastor took a chance on him, and let him give worshiping with his saxophone a try as a kid - and he feels like that has shaped his life and turned into what he felt called to do. Now that he's an "old worship leader", as he jokes, he feels that his responsibility is to father the next generation of worshipers.

After getting married, Jeremy and his wife moved to the Middle East to pioneer prayer there. He points to this experience as being the starting point for the trajectory of his academic journey, studying the way people worshiped Jesus in these other cultures. They served the local pastors there and eventually were able to bring a few of them together to host a 150 hour non-stop worship and prayer event! Now there is prayer and worship happening all the time in those places, still going, still impacting lives. They are regularly seeing God's presence change everything.

Diving into the term "indigenous worship", Jeremy's first point is that we often think that applies only to small, disconnected, foreign places - but living in the U.S. again, he sees a lot of what he calls "worship karaoke" or "hillsong tribute bands", instead of unique sounds from a region. He does say that the global outpouring of the Spirit will mean some global worship songs, but he believes God has songs and sounds to draw out of us. He believes it's not enough to look through just one ethnic lens - God is worthy of ALL of the styles of music of all cultures.

Speaking specifically to musicians and songwriters, Jeremy says it's okay to just try things! There will be a risk to doing a new song, or playing an old song in a new way. There's some teaching that goes along with it, helping people know why it's important. Another part of this journey is NOT comparing yourself to others! Your sound that God is creating in your community is going to be different from others - that's the point. We need to change our definition of success when it comes to songwriting and worship leading.

Shifting over to the academic, Matthew mentions that there is sometimes a push back from the charismatic world against too much "head" and not enough "heart", or the idea that you don't need to be trained, just called. But when it comes down to it, Jeremy says, theology is just studying God. At it's core, it's wanting to understand God's heart. He believes good theology should fuel worship and good worship should support theology. He thinks we do a disservice to discipleship when we "check our brains at the door". So many people fall away when they can't answer the tough questions that arise in life, because it was all heart and no brain for them.

They leave the conversation with an encouragement from Jeremy to lean into what God's doing in you, or in your group, and let your sound come out of that. It's God's heart for us, and he is worthy of it all.

In this episode, Matthew talks with Jose Diaz, an engaging intercessor and teacher currently based in Philadelphia. If you've ever been in a season or setting where you felt unseen, this episode is for you.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

Jose's Site • http://jose-diaz.org

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Jose starts in with his backstory - about 10 years ago, at a hard place in his life, God began calling him to things he didn't even understand. God told him he'd be a Samuel, and would lead worshipers. The specific phrase God spoke to him, "build Me a home", changed the trajectory of his life, turning his heart towards building a house of prayer.

Now, Jose believes that God is "restoring the language of priesthood". The worship movement is going from an event or moment-centered movement to a stewardship movement. It's losing some of the "celebrity" vibe and becoming more faceless. There are unique sounds coming out of different countries and cultures as they contend for their homes - instead of just one, standard, "worship industry" sound.

They move on from here to the story and meaning of the Melchizedek priesthood. It's different from the Levitical priesthood that most people are familiar with - it's priestly, but it's also governmental. It's a picture of God as king and Jesus as priest, working in harmony.

The Melchizedek priesthood is also not a Jewish priesthood - so God is leaving open, from the beginning, for everyone. It's why Jesus is called a priest in the order of Melchizedek. You see it from Genesis, all the way to Revelation 4 and 5. Matthew has often asked HOW David could "get away with" the ways he worshiped in the Old Testament, and the answer is that he was tapped into this priesthood.

As people on Earth, we are called to steward the Earth as God's priests - both to minister to God but also to govern. Jose says that we struggle because we tend to focus on only one part of that. Just as Adam was called to tend the Garden, we are called to tend the place God has put us.

To the people in the small places, the unseen places, Jose says that in this fame-obsessed culture,God is looking for friends He can share His secrets with. And lastly, some of you are in that place where you feel rejected - Jose says that the rejection of men is God preserving you. Be encouraged and lean into Him!

In this episode, Matthew has a chat with R.A. Martinez, worship leader, songwriter, founder of Maps Global, and author. They talk about the story behind Maps Global, and about R.A's new book, The Joseph Journey : What Every Pioneer Needs to Know.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

Buy The Joseph Journey book by R.A. Martinez - https://amzn.to/3jwxhQJ

Maps Global • http://mapsglobal.org

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Maps Global started with R.A. having dreams about worship and prayer events happening in unreached nations. He thought he was called to build locally, but God was obviously stretching him beyond that. In 2014 his crew was able to host 50 hours of nonstop worship and prayer in northern Iraq - just months after the Islamic State invasion! Afterwards they launched a house of prayer there that's still going to this day, with stories flowing in of encounters and salvations. This was the beginning of Maps Global, and it continues to grow and spread all over the world.

This brings us up to today, and R.A.'s book:

This started with him digging into the Joseph story because he was looking at the general forerunner story. Looking at John the Baptist as the classic example, he realized we miss about 30 years of his life - so he had no outline for preparing people to be forerunners. Joseph came to mind reading Psalm 105, which sums up Joseph's story in 6 verses. Looking in Joseph's life showed that even though he was set apart to be a leader as a teenager, it would take over a decade of pain and growth to take him there.

R.A. believes this will inform and encourage people being called to a future place of leadership, who may feel discouraged by the seasons of pain and growth, to understand God's ways. Because, as he puts it, your calling is not just for you - it's for all the people you will impact, directly or indirectly.

In this episode, Matthew gives a personal teaching based in Matthew 25 and the facets of Jesus reflected in those parables.

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Parable # 1: The Wise and Foolish Virgins

To the foolish virgins in this story, Jesus says they did not know Him. The oil here, that the wise virgins had enough of, represents intimacy. He is revealing Himself as a bridegroom who wants to know us! He's gone away to prepare a place for us, but He's coming back to fulfill His covenant with us. Our end of that deal, Matthew says, is pursuing intimacy with Him in the interim.

Parable # 2: The Talents

This is Jesus being revealed as king. A kingdom, Matthew points out, is not the same as a democracy. As king, Jesus owns everything and His subjects are simply stewards. Every single thing that we have is a gift from God! Therefore, we need to steward it well - time, talents, spiritual gifts, and resources. As Matthew puts it, we should be investing in eternity.

Parable # 3: The Sheep and the Goats

This is Jesus making everything right. He is perfect, righteous, and good in His judgement! It's God's justice that locks in our salvation through Jesus on the cross. Not understanding God's justice is what causes injustice in the world. When we understand, we have compassion for those in need and work to serve others and right the wrongs.

These facets of Jesus are also all throughout the book of Revelation, when Jesus speaks to His bride before coming back. Matthew insists - God is wanting to reveal it to us now!

An interview with Andrew Chalmers, leader of Take The City and creator of the mini-documentary, "We Hear You" that follows the reactions in St Louis and Minneapolis to the death of George Floyd. Matthew and Andrew discuss what it took to make the film, what Andrew's hopes are for the film, and the part that he thinks the church can play in racial reconciliation.

LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE

We Hear You : Official Site • https://wehearyoufilm.com/

Interview with J T Thomas on this podcast : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFsNVVBw4IA

Take the City Official Site : https://takethecity.com/

The Presence Pioneers podcast exists to help YOU and your community experience and host the presence of God through day & night worship & prayer – because we believe God’s presence changes everything. Hosted by Matthew Lilley, episodes feature short Bible teachings and interviews with key leaders in the prayer & worship movement.

SUBSCRIBE • http://eepurl.com/gfw9vH

RESOURCES FROM MATTHEW • http://presencepioneer.com

INSTAGRAM • http://instagram.com/presencepioneer/

FACEBOOK • http://facebook.com/presencepioneer/

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Andrew Chalmers is a father of 4 (5th is on the way!) from Georgia. He started a ministry called Take The City in 2013 when he moved from Atlanta to Columbus. Take the City exists to build unity between churches and equip them for evangelism and outreach, but it was birth from a place of prayer. Andrew's passion for street evangelism grows out of his own personal experience with drug addiction and homelessness, when he needed someone to step in but no one did.

Andrew says this new film, We Hear You, isn't about giving answers to the race situation in America, but asking questions, listening well, and building a bridge. The film takes place in St. Louis and Minneapolis, in the midst of some of the more intense protests following the killing of George Floyd. They also visited the site where David Dorn, retired cop, was killed during a riot, and when they arrived they found his family there. They were able to offer support and prayer to the hurting family, and see both sides of this very complex discussion.

Andrew believes that the most important first step in racial reconciliation is just LISTENING. There are many aspects of this issue, he says, that people simply aren't aware of. The Church needs to find the courage to have the hard conversations, and then to LISTEN. As Andrew puts is, it's hard to care about something you don't know anything about!

He hopes the next step for the film will be churches and groups hosting "watch parties" and using it to facilitate those hard conversations.

The last 10 minutes or so, Andrew gives his perspective on the connection between worship, prayer, and evangelism. It's worth listening to that chunk of the conversation more than once - it'll amp you up! Before his closing prayer, Andrew says this about laying your life down for evangelism from the place of prayer:

" The prayer room is the antidote for prideful and selfish ambitions."

This is a quick update from Matthew Lilley regarding why have we not released any new podcast episodes since the end of April, as well as some resources to help you while the podcast slows down.