My guest is Quinn Slobodian. We discuss the crisis of the 1970s and the 2020s. Of all the open theoretical debates, these periods are by far the most consequential. The analysis we take away from these periods will help determine whether neoliberalism was a project of class war (something that can be reversed) or an inevitable development within capitalism (a persistent feature that cannot be changed). The primary obstacle to any New Deal program, green or otherwise, will be to resolve these debates and bring an end to decades of unnecessary austerity.