What happens when you spend years searching for your creative path and finally realize you’ve found the thing you’re meant to do?

Tony Duvall shares his unconventional journey from photography, biology, and stand-up comedy to becoming a painter, along with the struggles, risks, and lessons that shaped his career.

He also opens up about the reality of the art market, making money as an artist, working with galleries, using social media to sell your work, and most importantly staying true to your own creative voice.

His advice is simple: make the work you genuinely want to make, keep experimenting, and don’t let the market take control of your creativity.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit primarymarket.substack.com

n this episode of the Primary Market Podcast, Topper Luciani sits down with rising painter Joe Yonke for an honest conversation about becoming a professional artist in today’s contemporary art world.

Joe shares how he went from studying business at Penn State to selling paintings full-time, relocating from Miami to New York City, and preparing to work alongside established painter Eric Foss. Along the way, we explore the realities of galleries, collectors, social media, and the relentless work required to develop a meaningful painting practice.

Topics include:

* Finding your voice as a painter

* Abstract Expressionism and today’s painting landscape

* Bryce Martin and artistic influences

* Miami vs. New York’s art scenes

* Building relationships with collectors

* Gallery representation: when (and when not) to pursue it

* The role of Instagram in the fine art world

* Making a living as a contemporary artist

* Art history, ambition, and long-term vision

Whether you’re an artist, collector, curator, student, or simply fascinated by the contemporary art world, this conversation offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to build a career in painting today.

Subscribe for more conversations with artists, collectors, curators, and the people shaping contemporary art.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit primarymarket.substack.com

In this episode, Topper sits down with Nicole Reber — real estate agent, reformed poet, and passionate art collector based in Los Angeles. Nicole shares her journey from growing up in Ventura County and studying at Pratt Institute in Brooklyn, to backpacking Europe and stumbling into the New York art scene. She talks about how artist trades sparked her collection, what it means to catch an artist "in the window," and why living with art is less about the market and more about living a beautiful life. Whether you're a seasoned collector or just art-curious, Nicole's story is a reminder that you can start collecting sooner than you think.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit primarymarket.substack.com

In Episode 12 of the Primary Market Podcast, Topper sits down with artist Mike Shultis for an unfiltered conversation on what it really takes to make it in the art world.

From tagging trains in Albuquerque to studying at Yale, Mike breaks down his unconventional journey—living in his studio, stealing sandwiches to survive, and pushing his work to the edge both physically and conceptually.

They dive into:

* Graffiti as a gateway into fine art

* The reality of art school (and Yale’s intense environment)

* Masculinity, controversy, and making provocative work

* The pressure of early success and the art market boom

* Why most artists fail—and what it actually takes to endure

This is a raw, honest look at the grind behind the scenes—no fluff, just truth.

If you’re an artist, collector, or just curious about the art world, this episode goes deep.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit primarymarket.substack.com

In Episode 11 of the Primary Market Podcast, Topper Luciani sits down with Los Angeles–based painter Jeremy Shockley to explore the realities of building a life in art.

Jeremy grew up in Travelers Rest, South Carolina, drawing on walls and floors before attending a specialized arts program and later studying at Winthrop University. After college, he moved to New York City, where he worked with legendary artist Tom Sachs and eventually became his studio manager. That experience placed him on the front lines of the contemporary art world.

Shockley later relocated to Los Angeles, spending years working on major exhibitions with artists like Chris Burden, Urs Fischer, and Takashi Murakami while collaborating with the Gagosian gallery. Along the way, he learned firsthand what it takes to sustain a creative career: relentless work, patience, and a willingness to keep making art long before recognition arrives.

In this conversation, Jeremy discusses:

• Growing up as an artist in rural South Carolina• Working for Tom Sachs and running a studio in New York• Behind-the-scenes experiences with Gagosian and major contemporary artists• Why many artists don’t break through until their 40s• How galleries, collectors, and the art market really function• The mindset required to become a full-time painter• His collaborations with Saint Laurent and international galleries• Life in an LA studio with gardens, chickens, and 14-hour painting days

Jeremy also shares insights for young artists about finding the right galleries, building relationships in the art world, and staying committed to the work even when the path isn’t clear.

A deep, honest conversation about creativity, persistence, and what it really takes to make a life in art.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit primarymarket.substack.com

In Episode 10 of Primary Market Podcast, Topper Luciani sits down with painter Jared Buschang for his first-ever podcast appearance.

After studying photography in New York and assisting artists in Spain, Jared pivoted fully into painting — eventually relocating to Cartagena, Colombia, where he’s spent the last decade building an art career completely outside the traditional gallery structure.

In this conversation, they cover:

* Studying photography at ICP in NYC

* Interning at Def Jam and walking away from the music industry

* Learning from masters like Willem de Kooning

* Trading paintings for housing in Cartagena

* Selling artwork to strangers — even on the subway

* Using Instagram as a direct-to-collector platform

* Pricing work sustainably outside major art capitals

* Why he paints daily without over-intellectualizing the process

This is a raw, unfiltered look at what it takes to survive — and thrive — as a working painter on your own terms.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit primarymarket.substack.com

In this wide-ranging conversation, Topper sits down with Matty Mo—aka The Most Famous Artist—to unpack what it really means to be an artist in the 21st century. From childhood reinvention and Stanford-era status games to advertising psychology, market manipulation, and the delusions of the fine art world, Matty offers an unfiltered look at how art, money, power, and identity collide.

The episode dives deep into uncomfortable truths: art as a financial instrument, the burnout of institutional careers, the myth of legacy, and why most artists are incentivized to fail. Matty explains how his practice evolved from direct-to-consumer art sales into real-estate arbitrage, small-town revival, and “new city” thinking—positioning art not as precious objects, but as a way of living intentionally.

This is a candid, funny, and occasionally brutal discussion about fame, relevance, AI, cultural production, and why the future may belong to outsider artists, not the canon. If you’ve ever questioned what art is for, who it serves, or how to build a creative life without selling your soul, this episode is required listening.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit primarymarket.substack.com

In this episode of Primary Market Podcast, artist Erik Sommer traces his path from playing drums in Duluth, Minnesota to becoming a New York–based painter, sculptor, and curator whose work explores impermanence, decay, and control over time. Sommer discusses his unconventional art education—shaped more by museums, studios, and the city itself than formal training—along with his early experiments using cement, found materials, and large-scale installations.

The conversation moves through his MFA years, life as a working artist and librarian in East Harlem, early gallery representation, and the risks and rewards of saying no to the wrong opportunities. Sommer also reflects on curating through his project space Mott Projects, the changing art market, Instagram as both archive and tool, and how artists can build careers without compromising their values. Grounded, thoughtful, and deeply reflective, the episode closes with Sommer’s philosophy on patience, authenticity, and why making art—quietly, steadily, and honestly—still matters.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit primarymarket.substack.com

Episode 7 spotlights Taylor Morrison (@weopen), an emerging force in contemporary art discourse whose unfiltered critiques routinely draw more traction and eyeballs than many of the art market’s most canonized critics. From a basement painting studio in upstate New York to the global stage of Instagram, Morrison represents a new era in which the internet is leveling the playing field—allowing a sharp-eyed art lover from Troy, NY to influence taste and conversation at a scale once reserved for institutional gatekeepers.

The episode explores Morrison’s unlikely path: skatepark outsider, quiet observer, product of a multigenerational art lineage, and eventually the creator of The Dungeon, his viral critique series. Morrison shares his philosophy of looking closely, judging art by the object itself, and resisting the pressures of hype, repetition, and market-driven taste.

This conversation captures a cultural shift in real time—one where authenticity outperforms pedigree, and where a single honest voice can disrupt an entire system built on pretense.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit primarymarket.substack.com

In this episode, Topper sits down with painter Kiki Valdés, whose journey through the art world has been anything but linear. Born to Cuban parents and raised between Miami and New Jersey, Kiki discovered drawing as a refuge—an early lifeline in classrooms where he struggled to read but excelled at making images that spoke louder than words.

Kiki shares how comic books, cartoons, and the chaos of 90s Miami shaped his early style, and how mentors—from public school teachers to art-world icons like Kenny Scharf—helped him recognize painting as his life’s direction. He opens up about navigating a Miami art scene defined by gatekeeping, the surreal chapter of painting live in nightclubs to survive, and the twists of fate—like a landlord who collected his work instead of rent—that led to his first New York show at the National Arts Club.

Topper and Kiki explore the deeper emotional landscape behind his work: the darkness that crept into early paintings, the humor he later embraced, and how smoke, nature, and memory began to populate the canvases. They also dive into the bigger questions:What is the art market really? How does an artist “make it”? How do you avoid losing your voice to trends, gatekeepers, or commercial pressure?

This conversation is raw, human, and inspiring—a story of grit, culture, reinvention, and an unwavering dedication to making art on one’s own terms.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit primarymarket.substack.com