Product Thinking

Robin Daniels is on the latest episode of the Product Thinking Podcast to discuss how it’s possible to transform working cultures through the careful construction of a supportive community atmosphere. Robin, Chief Business and Product Officer at Zensai, explains to Melissa Perri how his remarkable journey through product management and marketing across leading tech companies like Salesforce and LinkedIn has led him to where he is today. 

Robin has held leadership positions at renowned tech companies such as Salesforce, LinkedIn, Box, and Matterport and points out the necessity for modern leaders to understand the interconnectedness of product, sales, and marketing to drive effective go-to-market strategies.
The pair also ponder the question of what sparks joy in a corporate setting, and they discuss how a weekly check-in system that promotes self-reflection among employees is a far more functional system than the outmoded annual performance review method of performance management.

Robin’s insights serve as a rallying cry for leaders to embrace new ways of thinking about performance management so be sure to tune in now!

You’ll hear us talk about:

• 08:03 - PLG and Removing Friction in Onboarding
  
  

Towards the beginning of the episode, Robin highlights the importance of reducing friction at every step of the customer journey, especially in product-led growth (PLG) models. To illustrate the value of this, he shares the example of launching Salesforce Chatter's freemium model via a Super Bowl ad, where the challenge was to optimize signups for mobile devices with lower capabilities. The takeaway that he gleaned from this was that reducing friction—from awareness to onboarding—ensures a smoother experience for customers and can lead to higher engagement and conversion rates.

• 17:06 - Learning from Unexpected Use Cases
  
  

Robin also talks about how companies should respond to unexpected use cases that emerge after launching a product. He recounts his experience at Matterport, where releasing a smartphone version of their 3D camera solution led to 80,000 signups in one week. Unexpected users, such as large retail companies, adapted the tool for inventory and brand management, prompting the company to rethink their product vision and unlock further growth. This example illustrates the need to adapt product strategies based on customer feedback and new use cases.

• 27:50 - Shifting Performance Management Paradigms
  
  

One area of product development that Robin shares a critique of is around the traditional annual performance review. He notes its disconnect from the real-time feedback that today’s workforce desires. To reinforce his ideas in this area, he shares insights from a survey he conducted, revealing that employees actually tend to prefer more frequent performance insights, such as weekly or monthly updates. This approach not only reduces the stress associated with year-end evaluations but also allows for ongoing course corrections and personal development. By leveraging AI to compile achievements from weekly check-ins, Robin’s company aims to simplify the process, making performance evaluations more reflective of an employee's journey and growth throughout the year.

Episode Resources:

• Robin Daniels
• Zensai Website

Follow/Subscribe Now:

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:

• Angel Squad
• Productinstitute.com

Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

Check out our Top 3 episodes:

• Episode 177: The Evolution of User Research: A Conversation with Steve Portigal, Author of Interviewing Users
• Tackling Product Research with C. Todd Lombardo
• Episode 128: Scaling Product Operations with Blake Samic, Former Global Head of Product Operations at Stripe and Uber

Product Thinking is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so
Product Thinking Guest and Audience Podcast Feedback Form

Mercedes Chatfield-Taylor, Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer at Artico Search, Inc. and a top recruiter specializing in leadership roles for scale-up companies, returns to chat with Melissa Perri on this episode of Product Thinking. Together they discuss the evolving CEO landscape, particularly the increasing importance of collaboration across functions in lean organizations and the growing demand for leaders focused on profitability and sustainability. Mercedes shares insights into the typical paths to becoming a CEO, including from product leadership roles, and the skills needed to transition successfully. 

As far as Mercedes is concerned, there’s a core set of skills and talents that CPOs can bring to the table as a CEO, but finding that path and applying them is the challenge. The episode explores how focusing on product empathy, deep customer understanding, and cross-functional collaboration will aid aspiring CEOs from product backgrounds. They also touch on the value of aligning with sales, operations, and finance. 

Want to learn more about what leadership traits will set product leaders up to succeed in the CEO space? Tune in to the full episode now.

You’ll hear us talk about:

• 02:12 - From Growth At All Costs to an Efficiency Focus for CEOs
  
  

Mercedes highlights a crucial shift in the CEO landscape from a “grow at all costs” mentality to a focus on profitability, sustainability, and scalability. She explains that the most sought-after CEOs today are those who have successfully managed transitions to profitability, while maintaining operational efficiency. These leaders know how to get the most out of lean teams by fostering collaboration across departments like sales, marketing, and engineering. In today’s business environment, it’s no longer enough to grow; CEOs must do more with less and lead cross-functional, highly collaborative teams to thrive.

• 25:42 - The Importance of Building Strong Relationships with Sales
  
  

Mercedes highlights the importance of a Chief Product Officer (CPO) working closely with the Chief Revenue Officer (CRO) and sales teams to succeed in transitioning to a CEO role. She emphasizes that CPOs need to have a deep understanding of how products are sold and should actively participate in sales processes, including joining sales calls and interacting directly with customers. This hands-on experience with the sales cycle not only provides empathy for the challenges of sales but also makes the transition to CEO much smoother, as it fosters stronger alignment with revenue generation. Mercedes shares an example of a CPO who successfully made this transition by building relationships across the organization, eventually becoming a CEO highly respected by sales teams.

• 42:14 - CPOs Can Thrive as CEOs in Any Industry
  
  

Mercedes argues that CPOs are natural successors for CEO roles across various industries, not just in SaaS or product-led growth (PLG) companies. Whether in finance, automotive, or real estate, a CPO who understands the product deeply and has strong commercial acumen is well-positioned to take on the CEO role. She cites examples of successful transitions in industries ranging from fintech to automotive, emphasizing that CPOs who work closely with sales, marketing, and finance and who are exposed to board-level discussions can smoothly make the leap to CEO. The key is ensuring they round out their skill set with experiences beyond product management.

Episode Resources:

• Mercedes Chatfield Taylor
• Artico Website

Follow/Subscribe Now:

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:

• Angel Squad
• Productinstitute.com

Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

Check out our Top 3 episodes:

• Episode 177: The Evolution of User Research: A Conversation with Steve Portigal, Author of Interviewing Users
• Tackling Product Research with C. Todd Lombardo
• Episode 128: Scaling Product Operations with Blake Samic, Former Global Head of Product Operations at Stripe and Uber

Product Thinking is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so
Product Thinking Guest and Audience Podcast Feedback Form

In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri sits down with Sean Kim, former Head of Product at TikTok and a key figure behind the platform’s innovative features, including the popular Stitch functionality. Sean shares his insights on product management gleaned from his extensive experience at both Amazon and TikTok, emphasizing the importance of customer behavior in guiding product development.

Sean discusses how his team at Amazon optimized customer retention through data-driven strategies, ultimately increasing Prime subscriptions by honing in on customer benefits and by automating messaging. Transitioning to TikTok, he reveals how he leveraged similar principles to foster a culture of empowerment among product managers, enabling them to own their projects and drive impactful results. He highlights the need for clarity in vision and metrics, ensuring that teams are aligned and able to innovate freely within a structured framework.

Whether you're a product manager, leader, or simply interested in the tech industry's evolution, this episode offers invaluable lessons on creating meaningful products that resonate with users and sustain growth in an ever-changing landscape.

You’ll hear us talk about:

• 18:22 - Data-Driven Approach to Retention and High-Value Actions
  
  

Sean’s success in improving Amazon Prime retention relied on identifying and promoting high-value actions—specific behaviors that correlated strongly with long-term retention. These actions included things like taking advantage of Prime shipping, streaming Prime Video, or using Prime Music within the first few days of membership. Through data analysis and cohort studies, Sean’s team learned that customers who used multiple benefits early in their membership had much higher retention rates.

His approach was deeply data-driven, utilizing machine learning to analyze customer behaviors and run tests across different markets. The team automated processes to test various hypotheses, such as which benefits to promote to specific demographic groups, and then used those insights to optimize the customer experience. This level of personalization and testing at scale helped Amazon Prime develop a highly effective strategy for improving customer retention through tailored engagement.

• 27:08 - Empowering Product Managers at TikTok and Amazon
  
  

Sean shared insights into how both Amazon and TikTok foster a sense of ownership among product managers (PMs), which empowers them to make decisions and execute on company goals. At both companies, PMs were responsible for identifying the problems they wanted to solve in alignment with key business objectives like improving retention or daily active users (DAUs). Sean highlighted the autonomy given to PMs, noting that no one dictated specific actions, but rather, PMs were expected to create their own strategies and negotiate the resources needed for execution.

• 33:31 - Launching TikTok’s Stitch Feature by Recognizing User Behavior
  
  

Sean’s development of the Stitch feature at TikTok provides an example of how great products can emerge from observing user behavior. The feature wasn’t initially part of TikTok’s product roadmap; instead, it came about after noticing that users were downloading videos, adding their reactions via third-party software, and re-uploading them. Recognizing this clunky process, Sean’s team worked on integrating the behavior directly into the app, thus making it much easier for users to create content by stitching their reactions with other videos.

Episode Resources:

• Sean Solme Kim
• Sean Kim Website

Follow/Subscribe Now:

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:

• Angel Squad
• Productinstitute.com

Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

Check out our Top 3 episodes:

• Episode 177: The Evolution of User Research: A Conversation with Steve Portigal, Author of Interviewing Users
• Tackling Product Research with C. Todd Lombardo
• Episode 128: Scaling Product Operations with Blake Samic, Former Global Head of Product Operations at Stripe and Uber

Product Thinking is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so
Product Thinking Guest and Audience Podcast Feedback Form

In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri chats with Brian Fugere, Chief Product Officer at Symplr, an expert with decades of experience in healthcare technology and enterprise solutions. Brian shares valuable lessons from his diverse career, offering a behind-the-scenes look at how Symplr approaches innovation in the complex world of healthcare operations and compliance.
Tune in to hear Brian’s insights on leading product teams in a rapidly evolving industry, and how he balances customer demands with strategic decision-making. He also dives into the importance of simplifying products for enterprise clients, while tackling the unique challenges of navigating regulatory requirements in healthcare.

Throughout the conversation, Brian emphasizes the need for clear communication, empowering teams to deliver value, and fostering a culture of collaboration that puts both the customer and product at the forefront. 
Whether you're in healthcare, product management, or navigating leadership challenges in any sector, this episode provides actionable advice to drive meaningful impact through your product strategy.
You’ll hear us talk about:

• 15:43 - Balancing Build Versus Buy Decisions
  
  

Brian addresses the decision-making process behind building a product in-house versus acquiring it. He states that time and resources are the two critical factors in this equation. The company evaluates whether acquiring an existing solution would be faster and more cost-effective than building one. Brian is keen to stress that a company must also assess its internal competencies when making this decision. Symplr, for example, is better at buying existing solutions and optimizing them, rather than building something from scratch, as they’ve built teams specifically skilled in acquisitions and improvements.

• 29:05 - The Role of Subject Matter Expertise vs. Product Expertise in Healthcare
  
  

In healthcare, balancing subject matter expertise with core product management skills is critical. Brian explains that in assembling product teams, he intentionally mixes product experts with subject matter experts to foster cross-learning. As he points out, healthcare is a particularly complex field where deep domain knowledge is crucial for addressing nuanced customer needs, but pure product expertise is still required in order to run processes efficiently. For example, ex-nurses who deeply understand the intricacies of healthcare systems may not have the product management background but are invaluable for shaping the right solutions. Getting that balance of expertise right is vital for such an important field.

• 37:46 - Balancing "Carrot and Stick" for Customer Transition
  
  

When it comes to migrating customers from older platforms to newer ones, Fugere outlines the complex balancing act involved. Simpler has a dedicated migration team, reflecting how integral this process is to their strategy. Fugere's guidance to product managers is to aim for "sufficient parity" with the older platform to facilitate a smooth transition. However, they also need to offer enticing new features that encourage users to migrate willingly. The key is identifying high-priority pain points from customer feedback and rethinking problematic areas to add real value—like applying AI to automate parts of the scheduling process in their workforce management product.

Episode Resources:

• Brian Fugere
• Symplr Website
  
  

Follow/Subscribe Now:

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:

• Angel Squad
• Productinstitute.com

Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

Check out our Top 3 episodes:

• Episode 177: The Evolution of User Research: A Conversation with Steve Portigal, Author of Interviewing Users
• Tackling Product Research with C. Todd Lombardo
• Episode 128: Scaling Product Operations with Blake Samic, Former Global Head of Product Operations at Stripe and Uber

Product Thinking is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so
Product Thinking Guest and Audience Podcast Feedback Form

In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri sits down with Blake Morgan, a seasoned expert in customer experience, best-selling author, and someone with a career spanning major companies like Coca-Cola and AT&T.  Blake dives deep into the evolution of customer experience, sharing insights from her 18-year journey in the field and offering a fresh perspective on what it means to truly prioritize the customer.

Tune in to discover how Blake's book, "The Eight Laws of Customer-Focused Leadership," provides a roadmap for becoming a transformative leader who puts customers first. She discusses practical strategies for integrating customer feedback into your organization, avoiding common pitfalls in measuring success, and the role of leadership in driving a unified customer experience.

Throughout the episode, Blake highlights the importance of breaking down silos, engaging directly with customers, and fostering a culture where every employee takes ownership of the customer experience. Whether you're a product manager, UX designer, or leader in any industry, this conversation will inspire you to rethink how you approach customer-centricity and drive meaningful change within your organization.
You’ll hear us talk about:

• 05:36 - Customer-Focused Leadership Starts with Mindset  
  
  

Blake starts by delving into the core principles of customer-focused leadership, as outlined in her book, "Eight Laws of Customer-Focused Leadership." She explains that being customer-focused starts with the leader's mindset, and it’s crucial for executives to wake up every day excited to serve both customers and employees. The modern customer-focused leader needs to be deeply involved in the trenches, just like Lindsay Snyder, the President of In-N-Out, who frequently works alongside her team members in the stores. Blake points out that this hands-on leadership approach not only builds a strong connection with employees but also helps leaders stay attuned to the reality of day-to-day operations.

• 20:37 - Customer-Centric Approach: Learning from T-Mobile
  
  

Blake highlights the critical mistake companies make when they prioritize profit over customer care. She points to T-Mobile’s "Un-Carrier" strategy, led by former CEO John Legere, as a model for customer-centric transformation. In 2012, T-Mobile shifted the telecom industry by eliminating hidden fees and complex contracts that frustrated customers. This approach helped them rise from a lesser-known player to a major industry leader. John Legere's leadership style evolved alongside the company’s philosophy—he embraced a more relatable and bold persona, which resonated with both employees and customers. As Blake explains, his consistent focus on creating a customer-friendly brand was instrumental in T-Mobile's growth.

• 26:55 - Pitfalls of Poor Chatbot Implementation: Air Canada
  
  

Blake recounts the case of Air Canada’s chatbot failure as an example of how poor AI implementation can lead to severe customer dissatisfaction. A customer was misinformed by the airline's chatbot about a bereavement reimbursement policy, leading to a legal case when the customer followed incorrect advice and was denied compensation. Air Canada’s failure to take responsibility for the chatbot’s error worsened the situation, resulting in negative PR. Blake criticizes companies that release faulty chatbots without adequate testing or fail to uphold their customer promise when mistakes happen.

Episode Resources:

• Blake Morgan
• Blake Morgan Website

Follow/Subscribe Now:

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:

• Angel Squad
• Productinstitute.com

Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

Check out our Top 3 episodes:

• Episode 177: The Evolution of User Research: A Conversation with Steve Portigal, Author of Interviewing Users
• Tackling Product Research with C. Todd Lombardo
• Episode 128: Scaling Product Operations with Blake Samic, Former Global Head of Product Operations at Stripe and Uber

Product Thinking is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so
Product Thinking Guest and Audience Podcast Feedback Form

In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri welcomes Shruti Patel, Executive Vice President and CPO Business Banking at U.S. Bank, to share her expertise on navigating the complexities of product development within large financial institutions. 

Discover how Shruti's approach to product leadership is driving transformation in business banking and learn actionable insights for maintaining agility and relevance in a rapidly evolving market.

The conversation also covers the differences between product management in traditional banking sectors and companies like Shopify. 
Overall, Shruti emphasizes the importance of continuous improvement in existing products and customer experiences, while also keeping an eye on emerging trends and technologies. 
You’ll hear us talk about:

• 04:03 - Navigating the Differences Between Traditional Banking and Fintech  
  
  

At the top of this episode, Shruti highlights the distinct differences between traditional banking institutions and modern fintech companies, particularly from the perspective of product management. As she explains, while fintechs like Shopify operate with a narrow focus and modern tech stacks, banks like US Bank handle a broader range of services and face the complexities of managing legacy systems. These systems, having been built over decades, often necessitate a more deliberate and slower approach to innovation. Shruti is keen to underscore that the responsibility of managing people’s money in a highly regulated environment further complicates the speed and agility typically associated with product development in fintech.

• 13:22 - Addressing Small Business Challenges Through Product Innovation
  
  

In discussing her work at U.S. Bank, Shruti elaborates by insights gained from U.S. Bank’s annual survey of small businesses, which identified cash flow management and access to capital as two of the most significant challenges faced by these enterprises. Shruti emphasizes that understanding these pain points is crucial in shaping the bank’s strategy to provide digital tools that not only facilitate financial transactions but also offer businesses valuable insights into their cash flow.

• 35:10 - Transitioning to a Product-Centric Organization
  
  

Shruti shares with Melissa her insights on how large enterprises can successfully transition from a project-based approach to a product-centric one. She advises that organizations start by clearly defining their core product sets and mapping the customer journeys associated with these products. This involves understanding how customers interact with products and identifying pain points across these touchpoints. She also goes on to emphasize the importance of organizing the business around these customer journeys to ensure that all efforts are aligned with enhancing the customer experience.

Episode Resources:

• Shruti Patel
• U.S. Bank
• U.S. Bank 2024 Small Business Survey
  
  

Follow/Subscribe Now:

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:

• Angel Squad
• Productinstitute.com

Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

Check out our Top 3 episodes:

• Episode 177: The Evolution of User Research: A Conversation with Steve Portigal, Author of Interviewing Users
• Tackling Product Research with C. Todd Lombardo
• Episode 128: Scaling Product Operations with Blake Samic, Former Global Head of Product Operations at Stripe and Uber

Product Thinking is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so
Product Thinking Guest and Audience Podcast Feedback Form

Vijay Pitchumani is the esteemed guest of Melissa Perri on this episode of the Product Thinking podcast. Vijay, a renowned expert in product strategy, and Director of Product at Okta, shares his insights on the essential role of product managers in platform teams and the unique challenges they face.

Across the pair’s discussion, Vijay and Melissa delve into the critical function of product managers in platform environments. Vijay emphasizes that despite their focus on backend systems, platform teams require strong product management to define and track success metrics. He explains how engineers, while highly skilled, often need guidance on setting clear, actionable success metrics that align with customer needs and enable rapid iteration. This includes breaking down objectives into smaller, measurable targets that facilitate ongoing customer feedback and platform evolution.
The conversation also explores the potential for experimentation within platform teams. Vijay shares his experience with API-first approaches, advocating for the release of APIs to a select group of customers, to gather early feedback, before fully developing user-facing components.

Tune in to this episode to gain valuable insights into the evolving role of product managers in platform teams and learn how to navigate the challenges of scaling and innovating in the platform space.
You’ll hear us talk about:

• 17:37 - Crafting a Platform Vision
  
  

Developing a vision for a platform is distinct from crafting a vision for user-facing products. Vijay emphasizes the need for platform PMs to think long-term and anticipate future use cases and non-functional requirements. Unlike user-facing products where MVPs can evolve incrementally, platform decisions must account for scalability and future capabilities from the outset. This involves providing engineering teams with a clear understanding of market trends and future needs to guide technology choices and ensure the platform can evolve to meet new demands.

• 26:21 - Balancing Short-Term Experiments and Long-Term Goals
  
  

When it comes to justifying experiments to platform teams, Vijay advises framing them as short-term, time-boxed experiments that demonstrate potential value with minimal investment. He suggests that PMs propose experiments with clear, short-term goals (e.g., two weeks of effort) to test hypotheses and validate ideas. This approach helps in avoiding waste and ensures that the experiments are manageable and deliver actionable insights quickly. By setting clear expectations and timelines, PMs can secure buy-in from stakeholders and ensure that experiments align with broader business objectives, reducing the risk of wasted effort and resources.

• 39:39 - The Evolving Role of AI in Enhancing Productivity 

Vijay discusses the rotation of PMs across different teams and projects as a strategy for both career development and ensuring diverse experiences. By rotating PMs, organizations can keep them engaged and provide them with varied experiences, which helps in identifying their strengths and weaknesses. This practice also ensures that PMs bring fresh perspectives to different problems and projects. To support this, he advises setting clear expectations and providing sufficient onboarding time to help PMs acclimate to new challenges. This approach not only enhances PMs’ skills but also benefits the organization by leveraging diverse insights and experiences.

Episode Resources:

• Vijay Pitchumani
• Okta
  
  

Follow/Subscribe Now:

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:

• Angel Squad
• Productinstitute.com

Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

Check out our Top 3 episodes:

• Episode 177: The Evolution of User Research: A Conversation with Steve Portigal, Author of Interviewing Users
• Tackling Product Research with C. Todd Lombardo
• Episode 128: Scaling Product Operations with Blake Samic, Former Global Head of Product Operations at Stripe and Uber

Product Thinking is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so
Product Thinking Guest and Audience Podcast Feedback Form

Melissa Perri welcomed Tamar Yehoshua, President of Product and Technology at Glean, to the Product Thinking podcast for an in-depth conversation about the rapidly evolving landscape of AI and enterprise productivity. Tamar, with her extensive background in AI and search technologies, dives into Glean’s journey of integrating cutting-edge retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) technology to enhance enterprise search and knowledge management.

In this episode, Tamar shares how Glean’s approach to AI is revolutionizing the way businesses retrieve and utilize information, emphasizing the importance of balancing search relevance, personalization, and security. She discusses the challenges of building an AI-driven product that adheres to strict data permissions while delivering actionable insights. Tamar also provides a behind-the-scenes look at the engineering-heavy structure of Glean’s team and how senior product managers play a critical role in bridging the gap between technical excellence and user needs.
If you’re interested in how to navigate the complexities of AI innovation, optimize enterprise workflows, and future-proof your product strategies, this episode is a must-listen.

You’ll hear us talk about:

• 06:36 - The Critical Role of Security in Enterprise Search

When discussing Glean's approach to enterprise search, Tamar emphasizes the paramount importance of security and privacy. Glean’s platform deals with vast amounts of proprietary information within enterprises, making it essential to ensure robust security measures. Tamar explains that the platform is designed to adhere strictly to the privacy controls and policies of various SaaS applications, requiring meticulous attention to detail to maintain compliance. She highlights that Glean offers both a hosted service and the option for customers to host the service within their own cloud instances, ensuring a high level of data isolation and security.

This focus on security is critical for building trust with enterprise clients, particularly when dealing with large organizations that have stringent security requirements. Tamar’s insight into the complexities of securing enterprise data showcases the deep technical challenges involved in developing a product like Glean. It also reflects the broader industry trend where security and data privacy have become fundamental selling points for technology solutions, especially in the enterprise space.

• 27:28 - The Importance of Personalized Retrieval in Enterprise AI 
  
  

Tamar Yehoshua emphasizes the challenges of integrating large language models (LLMs) with enterprise data. Unlike general LLMs, enterprise solutions require sophisticated retrieval mechanisms to ensure that only authorized and relevant information is accessed. Tamar explains that simply dumping all enterprise data into an LLM is not feasible due to issues with permissions and the specificity required in enterprise contexts. Glean’s approach is to index all enterprise data, enforce metadata-based permissions, and personalize results based on the user’s role and relationships within the company.

• 38:17 - The Evolving Role of AI in Enhancing Productivity 
  
  

In discussing the future of AI, Tamar touches on the emerging trend of agentic workflows, where AI systems can perform multi-step tasks autonomously. Although these systems are still in their infancy and require user intervention, Tamar is optimistic that they will soon become more reliable. She believes that as AI models improve, these workflows will enable users to offload routine tasks, allowing them to focus on more strategic and creative work.

Tamar envisions a future where AI significantly enhances workplace productivity by handling time-consuming tasks such as summarizing meeting notes or updating databases. She also addresses concerns about AI potentially replacing jobs, advising professionals to embrace AI as a tool to improve their own efficiency and capabilities.

Episode Resources:

• Tamar Yehoshua
• Glean
  
  

Follow/Subscribe Now:

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:

• Angel Squad
• Productinstitute.com

Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

Check out our Top 3 episodes:

• Episode 177: The Evolution of User Research: A Conversation with Steve Portigal, Author of Interviewing Users
• Tackling Product Research with C. Todd Lombardo
• Episode 128: Scaling Product Operations with Blake Samic, Former Global Head of Product Operations at Stripe and Uber

Product Thinking is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so
Product Thinking Guest and Audience Podcast Feedback Form

Melissa Perri sat down with Vrushali Paunikar, Chief Product Officer of Carta, on this episode of the Product Thinking podcast. In this fascinating discussion, Vrushali explores her journey in product management and how Carta has redefined traditional practices in the finance and accounting space. With over a decade of experience, Vrushali shares how Carta's innovative approach to building a custom general ledger and managing equity compensation has propelled their success. 

She details the challenges and breakthroughs of creating a tailored solution that integrates seamlessly with existing systems and how a fresh perspective can drive meaningful innovation. Additionally, Vrushali offers insights into the art and science of equity compensation for startups, emphasizing the importance of context and data.
If you're keen to understand how to challenge the status quo, foster innovation, and leverage data to make informed decisions in product management, this episode is a must-listen.
You’ll hear us talk about:

• 10:51 - Balancing Depth and Breadth in Product Strategy
  
  

Vrushali highlighted the challenges of balancing depth and breadth in product development at Carta. Initially, the company experimented with a wide range of ideas, focusing on solving smaller, niche problems that often led to the discovery of larger, more impactful opportunities. This approach allowed Carta to experiment and innovate, identifying which solutions resonated with the market and were worth scaling.

However, as Carta matured, the focus shifted from broad experimentation to deepening its existing product lines. Vrushali emphasized the importance of discipline in this phase, where the company now prioritizes going deep on proven products to create truly differentiated experiences. 

• 32:34 - Balancing Innovation with Customer Validation
  
  

Vrushali stressed the importance of validating innovations to ensure they are solving real customer problems and not just innovating for the sake of it. She described how Carta has built a unique foundation that unlocks capabilities no one else in the industry can replicate. However, she also recognized the importance of confirming that these "unlocks" are actually desired by customers. Paunikar explained her process of sending out strategy snippets to customers and network contacts to gather feedback, which helped them refine their approach and invalidate ideas that didn't resonate.

• 37:31 - Strategic Equity Compensation for Startups 
  
  

In discussing equity compensation for early startup employees, Paunikar offered valuable advice grounded in both data and experience. She recommended that founders and those looking to join startups use Carta's data as a reference point for making informed decisions about equity distribution. However, she also noted that equity compensation is highly context-dependent, varying based on factors such as the employee’s experience, the value they bring to the company, and the stage of the company’s growth.

Episode Resources:

• Vrushali Paunikar
• Carta
  
  

Follow/Subscribe Now:

Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:

• Angel Squad
• Productinstitute.com

Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

Check out our Top 3 episodes:

• Episode 177: The Evolution of User Research: A Conversation with Steve Portigal, Author of Interviewing Users
• Tackling Product Research with C. Todd Lombardo
• Episode 128: Scaling Product Operations with Blake Samic, Former Global Head of Product Operations at Stripe and Uber

Product Thinking is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so
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Melissa Perri sat down with Christopher Li, SVP of Product at Xactly on this episode of the Product Thinking podcast. In this enthralling episode, Christopher shares his journey from engineering to product management and the challenges his company faced in adopting the Scaled Agile Framework.

Christopher has spent the past 15 years in product management, working through different functions and eventually becoming the SVP of Product at Xactly, an enterprise software provider. Christopher explains that when he joined the company, it lacked maturity in terms of roadmap and product management practices. To address this, they instituted the Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe) to complement their annual roadmap planning process, which allowed them to balance predictability and innovation.
If you're interested in learning about navigating enterprise software and finding the right balance between planning and execution, this is the episode for you.
You’ll hear us talk about:

• 04:52 - Phasing in Agile and Scaled Agile Framework

Christopher discusses the approach he took to balance predictability and innovation at Xactly by phasing in an agile methodology alongside the Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe). Recognizing the limitations of an annual roadmap in maintaining both long-term vision and day-to-day execution, Chris and his team introduced a quarterly discipline through SAFe. This method allowed them to complement their existing roadmap with a more adaptable and dynamic approach. However, Chris also acknowledges the challenges that came with adopting SAFe, particularly in terms of change management and process fatigue. Despite widespread buy-in, the sheer number of moving parts within SAFe necessitated a gradual integration rather than a wholesale adoption, which ultimately allowed for more tailored and effective process improvements.

• 22:03 - Merging Product Owner and Product Manager Roles

Christopher discusses the transition from having distinct roles for Product Owners (POs) and Product Managers (PMs) to a more integrated approach. Historically, these roles were segregated, with POs focused internally on the R&D organization, while PMs were more market and customer-facing. However, Li's team found more long-term benefits in merging these roles into a hierarchical structure. As POs gain experience in implementing and shipping products, they naturally transition to PM roles, taking on market-facing responsibilities while delegating internal tasks to incoming POs. This shift not only enhances collaboration but also boosts morale by offering a clearer path for career progression, allowing individuals to explore various facets of product management based on their interests and strengths.

• 27:18 - The Importance of Cross-Functional Experience in Leadership
  
  

Li highlights the value of cross-functional experience in developing strong leadership within product management. He notes that many of the best leaders he has worked with have experience in various roles beyond product management, such as sales or engineering. This diverse experience gives them a well-rounded perspective on the business, enabling them to better understand how different teams and functions operate and how they can work together effectively. Li mentions that when he started his career, product management was not as well-defined, and people often found their way into the field through other roles. This organic approach helped build a broader business understanding, which is now more structured due to the growing allure of product management as a career path.

Episode Resources:

• Christopher Li
• Xactly Corp
  
  

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Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:

• Angel Squad
• Productinstitute.com

Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

Check out our Top 3 episodes:

• Episode 177: The Evolution of User Research: A Conversation with Steve Portigal, Author of Interviewing Users
• Tackling Product Research with C. Todd Lombardo
• Episode 128: Scaling Product Operations with Blake Samic, Former Global Head of Product Operations at Stripe and Uber

Product Thinking is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so
Product Thinking Guest and Audience Podcast Feedback Form