ProductLed Podcast

Today's episode hones the best practices for go-to-market strategies tailored to technology companies targeting developers and tech experts. Our guest, Ben Williams, a former executive turned PLG strategic advisor, is here to share valuable insights. Earlier this year, he played a pivotal role steering a cybersecurity company to an astonishing $7.4 billion valuation.

Host Maja guides a knowledge-packed discussion, exploring the critical pitfalls and blind spots in PLG strategies with Ben and draws from his experiences at Snyk to examine the choice between niche focus versus multiple Ideal Customer Profiles. They also explore customer discovery methods, how to prioritize experiments, and validate MVP and MVB (Minimum Viable Business Model).

Key Takeaways: 

[00:10] Introduction of Ben Williams

[05:05] Strategies for effective developer marketing

[05:55] Building community and providing value to developers

[08:05] Tactics for helping developers learn and grow

[11:40] Effective approaches to developer marketing

[12:10] Addressing privacy concerns and building trust

[13:45] Transparency and data tracking for developers

[15:30] Finding the right-sized market slice

[17:20] Transitioning from self-serve to enterprise sales

[18:50] Using product engagement states to identify potential customers

[19:50] Leveraging engagement states for tailored outreach

[22:30] Shifting from PQL to PQA for customer actions

[25:00] Prioritizing experiments using ICE scoring

[26:25] Focus on experiment execution and learning

[27:50] Questioning experiment frequency for new teams

[28:40] Faster experimentation with a shift to strategy

[29:20] Documenting learnings and breaking silos

[31:15] Discussing failures in reviews

[32:45] 20% baseline for experiment success

[33:55] Embracing failure and experimentation speed

[38:55] Customer discovery mechanisms

[39:30] Highlighting underutilized pricing experiments

[41:35] Pricing impact and fear

[42:37] Airtable and Notion for growth processes

[46:00] Balancing work and personal life

About Ben Williams: 

Ben Williams, a PLG advisor and former VP of Product at Synk, played a pivotal role in propelling a cybersecurity company focused on cloud computing to an impressive valuation of 7.4 billion in 2023. Now, Ben is dedicated to his mission of empowering product-led companies to make informed decisions and achieve better results.

Links: 

Ben Williams | LinkedIn 

PLGeek 

Tatiana Morozova, the Head of Growth Strategy & Operations at ClickUp, joins host Mario Araujo to shed light on the untold stories behind product-led growth (PLG) implementation and the enduring value of persistence in achieving success. 

In conversation, they emphasize making iteration and failure an integral part of the product-led implementation journey. Tatiana draws from her experiences at MongoDB and ServiceNow, highlighting key learnings about experimentation at scale, the significance of testing before rebranding, and layering PLG on an enterprise service.   

Key Takeaways: 

[2:15] Tatiana's background and accidental entry into growth

[4:05] MongoDB and launching an experimentation program

[5:15] Challenges of autonomy and silos in experimentation

[8:15] Using qualitative feedback tools for validation

[9:05] Importance of defining secondary metrics for experiments

[9:25] Activation and adjacent user experiences

[12:10] Friction and confusion in the rearranged product placement

[12:55] Recommendation of having secondary metrics for validation

[13:25] Exploring adjacent user experiences and educational paths

[15:25] Doubling of conversion window to paid customers for the same cohort

[16:10] Balancing learning and pivoting

[16:25] Decision-making in teams

[16:50] Factors influencing pivoting decisions

[17:15] Cultural impact on decision-making

[19:05] Lessons from the failed brand awareness campaign

[22:15] Building PLG in an enterprise context

[23:55] The role of sales in PLG

[25:10] Creating a feedback loop with sales

[25:35] Recommendations for companies exploring PLG

[31:00] Final remarks 

About Tatiana Morozova: 

Tatiana Morozova is an accomplished leader in Growth Marketing and Strategy, presently holding the position of Head of Growth Strategy & Operations at ClickUp. With a wealth of experience, including roles at ServiceNow and MongoDB, she has excelled in the realm of product-led growth (PLG). Tatiana's career journey reflects her expertise in scaling businesses and driving marketing strategies that make an impact.

Links: 

Tatiana Morozova | LinkedIn

Today’s episode dives into understanding your customers' unmet needs and mastering the art of building products the right way.

Our guest is Tony Ulwick, innovation leader and the bestselling author of "Jobs to Be Done: Theory to Practice." Tony offers a simplified approach to the innovation process, and together with host Wes Bush, they discuss Outcome-Driven Innovation as a framework for market success.

The focus here is on discovering what customers aim to achieve (their "jobs to be done") rather than rushing into product features or solutions. Explore the roles of different customer segments, a systematic approach to customer discovery, valuable segmentation for product development and marketing, and more. 

Key Takeaways: 

[1:00] Tony Ulwick’s IBM experience and ongoing innovation challenges

[2:10] His desire to predict product success before development

[3:15] Understanding customer needs

[9:00] Defining customer groups

[10:40] Targeting underserved segments

[13:10] Finding segments of opportunity

[15:00] Step-by-step process for understanding customer needs

[16:00] Mapping out desired outcomes

[20:45] Discussion of platform-level solutions

[21:40] Mapping out desired outcomes

[24:00] The collaborative approach

[25:00] Categorizing desired outcomes

[28:00] Finding segments of opportunity

[30:00] Segmentation based on unmet needs

[30:40] Focus on the job to be done

[31:00] Example in dentistry where patient segments are identified based on their unmet needs.

[32:10] Identifying unmet needs to inform product strategy

[33:00] Shifting the value proposition based on identified unmet needs.

[34:15] Innovations and unmet needs

[38:30] Free book “Jobs to be Done” theory 

About Tony Ulwick: 

Tony Ulwick is the CEO of Strategyn, an innovation consultancy. He's known for pioneering Jobs-to-be-Done Theory and inventing Outcome-Driven Innovation® (ODI) with an 86% success rate. Tony works with Fortune 500 companies to make innovation more predictable and oversees the JTBD + ODI publication.

Links: 

Tony Ulwick | LinkedIn

JOBS TO BE DONE book

Step into the world of product-led growth (PLG) with Wes Bush, the author of the popular book "Product-Led Growth: How to Build a Product That Sells Itself." In this episode, Wes talks about common misunderstandings about the product-led model and shares insights about its promising future.

Dr. Else van der Berg, the founder of Sonderhouse, is also part of the conversation as a guest host. Together with Wes, they have a fascinating discussion, exploring the important idea of focusing on providing value before making money. They also talk about using product free trials, the need for organizations to change their thinking, and the complex task of making sure users find value in what's offered.

Key Takeaways: 

[1:00] How Wes Bush got into the product-led field

[4:10] Four components of business

[4:55} Comparing sales-led and product-led companies

[6:00] Organizational and cultural shift to move to PLG

[9:00] Balancing broad AI tools and targeting specific user profiles

[11:50] Utilizing BJ Fogg’s behavior model for identifying ideal users

[14:15] Potential for PLF targeting enterprise clients

[17:15] Importance of value creation before value capture

[17:50] Changing landscape of freemium

[18:40] Future of PLG

[22:00] Differentiation play, freemium in niche markets, and expanding target audiences

[24:45] Mindset shift required for PLG success

[27:00] Wes shares his biggest mistake in growth

[30:30] Challenge of designing a core value proposition

[35:15] Role and leadership skills for driving PLG initiatives

[38:00] User success becomes the company’s success

About Wes Bush: 

Wes Bush is an author and expert in PLG and founder of the all-in-one educational platform ProductLed. With a passion for helping companies shift their focus from sales-led to product-led strategies, he believes that delivering value to users before monetization is key to success. 

Links: 

Wes Bush | LinkedIn

Dr. Else van der Berg | LinkedIn 

Free Product-Led Growth Book

The pressures of leadership can be tiring and steer you toward a version of yourself you don’t recognize. In today’s episode, we’re joined by Jason Silver, Growth expert and author of the upcoming book "Quietly Crushing It," who shares his insights on how to achieve success without burning out. 

Jason highlights the importance of aligning your actions with your intentions and making room in your workday to prioritize tasks that bring you joy. He shares practical tips and introduces his “Crushing It” approach to enhance communication and productivity at work. This three-step framework involves creating space, aligning experiences, and progressing faster. 

Key Takeaways: 

[1:10] Jason Silver introduction 

[2:30]  Importance of leadership and managing in a quieter, more fulfilling way

[5:30] Technical skills in the product-led space 

[9:00] Jason's interest in business and building teams 

[12:00] The concept of "quietly crushing it" and finding joy in the hard things 

[16:00] Work-life balance and the future of leadership 

[20:00] Three-step “Quietly Crushing It” framework

[24:00] Clear communication and the impact of miscommunications in the workplace 

[30:00] How to implement a brief back to avoid miscommunications 

[34:00] Jason’s “Quietly Crushing It” book

About Jason Silver: 

Jason likes to help people embrace life's challenges. He worked at Airbnb during the early days and helped build an AI company before AI became the cool thing to do. Currently, he advises leaders on how to build great, lasting companies with fulfilling workplaces. 

Every Tuesday Jason shares a new article, always readable in under two minutes, that includes a tangible tactic you can use to help you do or feel better at work each week. Subscribe for free here. 

Links: 

Jason Silver | LinkedIn 

“Quietly Crushing It” by Jason Silver

Enhancing customer value and boosting revenue can be achieved by integrating a sales assist motion into your PLG strategy. However, as we discover in today's episode of the False Starts series, this process requires navigating trial and error and overcoming challenges.

Carrie McMahon, the Head of Scaled Business at Coda, talks about how her team navigated three iterations to find the right approach to adding sales to their successful self-serve motion. They started with a heavy focus on human interaction, then shifted to a success-led motion, and finally reoriented the team towards high-potential enterprise customers. 

Throughout the episode, Carrie elaborates on challenges her team faced like overwhelming users with sales interactions. Among many nuggets of advice, she emphasizes the importance of pinpointing success milestones, strategically segmenting your customer base, and maintaining a continuous cycle of validation and automation.

Key Takeaways:

[1:15] Carrie’s background and work experience

[3:30] Mission and ideal customer profile at Coda

[6:20] Coda’s first attempt to layer sales on top of Coda’s PLG approach

[7:15] Challenges of overwhelming the Sales Team with customer interactions and misaligned customer needs

[8:10] Recognizing the mismatch between customer expectations and the sales-led motion

[8:52] Ineffective segmentation of customers 

[9:36] Pivoting towards a success-led motion

[11:10] Discussion about the user experience during the initial attempt

[12:50] Listening to customer feedback to understand challenges and missed opportunities

[16:00] Transitioning from the first iteration to the second

[16:15] Shifting the team’s focus from sales to success

[19:50] Segmenting and finding the right users to engage with 

[21:30] Examples of customer success stories and expansions

[25:10] Creating transparency and celebrating quick wins

[26:15] Focusing on potential growth for enterprise sales

[28:15] Third iteration: reorienting towards high-potential customers

[29:15] Product market fit discussion

[29:45] Playbook recommendations for layering sales on self-serve

[30:35] Evolution of product-led stack of tools

[36:30] Team structure and objectives

About Carrie McMahon: 

Carrie is a collaborative leader and innovator with proven success at building and enabling teams and developing programs at scale to drive revenue growth and ensure operational efficiency. Prior to her role at Coda, she spent nearly 6 years working at Zendesk.

Links: 

Carrie McMahon | LinkedIn 

Carrie McMahon | Coda 

In this episode, ProductLed CEO & Founder Wes Bush speaks with Laura Kluz, ProductLed’s Director of Content discuss the newly created Product-Led Assessment. The Assessment is designed to help businesses understand where to focus their efforts to build a successful product-led business.

It measures nine core areas of a business, including strategy, ideal users, free model, onboarding, experience, pricing, data, growth process, and team. The assessment provides a holistic view of the business and helps identify the highest leverage opportunities for growth. 

Learn why every business should take the Assessment to learn what the core issue is so that they can focus their time and resources on the right problems. 

Key takeaways:

[0:22]: What the ProductLed Assessment is

[4:30]: Importance of understanding the root cause of business issues

[7:00]: Breakdown of the nine components measured in the Assessment 

[12:30]: Relevance of the Assessment for pre-revenue businesses 

[17:00]: Plans for creating in-depth guides for each component 

About Wes Bush

Wes Bush is an exceptional entrepreneur, renowned bestselling author, and the unparalleled authority on product-led growth. With an unwavering dedication to his craft, Wes has transformed the lives of over 500,000 individuals worldwide, captivating them through his groundbreaking books, captivating podcast, and influential thought leadership on the subject of product-led growth.

Links 

Wes Bush on LinkedIn

Melissa Perri, the author of the book "The Build Trap" joins Wes Bush to talk about the concept of the build trap, which is when organizations become stuck measuring their success by outputs rather than outcomes. They chat about the importance of focusing on products' value rather than just shipping features.

Melissa also shares the signs that indicate a company is in the build trap, such as not knowing the expected outcomes of their products and lacking a product strategy. Melissa provides insights on escaping the build trap, including the need for a good organizational design, a strong product strategy, and effective product operations. She emphasizes the importance of a cultural shift and the need to practice new behaviors to build a product-led culture. 

Key Takeaways: 

[3:00]: Discussion on the concept of the build trap and its scariness and signs that indicate a company is in the build trap. 

[10:00]: How to address the build trap and escape it. 

[18:30]: Importance of a cultural shift and practicing new behaviors. 

[22:00]: What a simplified version of a strategy for early-stage companies looks like.

[30:00]: Introduction to the concept of Product Ops and its importance for product-led companies 

[39:00]: Why transparency matters in product-led companies. 

[42:00]: Benefits of developing good habits early on in a company's growth. 

Links: 

Melissa Perri’s LinkedIn

Melissa Perri’s Twitter

productinstitute.com 

melissaperri.com 

produxlabs.com 

In this episode, Wes chats with Teresa Torres about her book, "Continuous Discovery Habits." Teresa is an expert in product discovery and has crafted a practical guide on continuously uncovering customer needs, pain points, and opportunities to build successful products.

Wes and Teresa explore the key concepts of continuous discovery and the importance of forming product trios for effective collaboration. The podcast covers essential habits and strategies to kickstart a successful continuous discovery process, ensuring teams remain focused on achieving desired product outcomes. 

Key Takeaways:

[2:06] Wes and Teresa speak about the core habits for success.  

[5:06] Teresa discusses the idea of the product trio, comprised of a product manager, designer, and software engineer, emphasizing the benefits of cross-functional collaboration and decision-making.

[8:02] Teresa highlights the importance of context and organization structure in kickstarting continuous discovery habits, depending on roles and team dynamics.

[17:09] They speak about user research and the main questions you need to ask in your customer interviews.  

[28:26] How they approach product launches.

[31:54] Why using story drawings to provide structure is important to her process.

About Teresa

Teresa Torres is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and coach. She teaches a structured and sustainable approach to continuous discovery that helps product teams infuse their daily product decisions with customer input. She’s coached hundreds of teams at companies of all sizes, from early-stage start-ups to global enterprises, in a variety of industries. She has taught over 12,000 product people discovery skills through the Product Talk Academy and is the author of Continuous Discovery Habits.

Links:

LinkedIn

In the competitive world of SaaS, businesses struggle to attract new customers. However, there's a winning strategy that can help you outshine your competitors: shift your focus to your existing customers. 

In this episode, Liz Pearce, GoDaddy's VP of Marketing, takes us behind the scenes to reveal how the powerhouse company attributes its success to relentless evaluation of customer value.

Liz delves into GoDaddy's comprehensive strategy for elevating customer value across their range of offerings, spanning domains, websites, and productivity tools. Emphasizing the importance of understanding the customer journey and delivering personalized recommendations, she unveils GoDaddy's culture of experimentation and data-driven practices. By harnessing customer activity metrics, they fuel significant growth. 

Key Takeaways:

[1:10] Liz Pearce background and experience in startups

[3:55] Variety of products and services offered by GoDaddy 

[5:30] Meeting customers at different stages of their entrepreneurial journey

[8:15] Understanding and analyzing customer behavior

[10:35] Segmentation and personalized recommendations based on customer needs

[12:30] Mapping out the typical user journey and analyzing different entry points

[14:15] Scoring customer value in the first 30 days 

[16:45] Progressive onboarding and providing suggestions based on customer actions

[19:00] Product example and its positive impact on customer engagement

[20:20] Importance of testing and experimentation.

[21:40] Guiding people and giving suggestions to increase customer value

[22:10] Importance of pricing and customer success in increasing customer value

[23:35] Helping customers overcome activation hurdles

[25:00] Culture of experimentation at GoDaddy and how it drives growth

[26:20] The impact of small changes and experiments on customer experience 

[27:30] Measuring and optimizing the product funnel to drive growth

[39:00] Celebrating experiments and learnings within the company

[31:20] Suggestions for small companies to start with customer conversations and feedback

About Liz Pearce:

Liz Pearce is a seasoned professional in the startup world, driven by a passion for entrepreneurship. With a background in marketing, she has successfully navigated various roles within startups, including project management software and B2B-focused augmented reality ventures. Currently, Liz serves as the VP of Marketing at GoDaddy.

Links:

Liz Pearce | LinkedIn

ProductLed Podcast