Profiles in Havok

Is the US Losing Faith in the Military? That was supposed to be the subject this week – and after about 30 minutes, it was. My guests were Coffee or Die Executive Editor Havok Journal founder Marty Skovlund Jr. and Havok Journal owner Charlie Faint. We had a lot of ground to cover with Marty - from the founding of Havok Journal to the latest on his new book - which explains why we took the scenic route to get on topic. But when we got there, we dove in headfirst: why are most parents patriotic up until their kid is about to enlist? Should vets look down on those who never served? How many of the Army’s image issues would be eliminated if we just closed Fort Hood? What is the single best tool to eliminate toxic leadership? Marty and Charlie are at the top of their game and have answers to these and so many more questions.

Have a listen here.

Show Alibis

So I asked Marty about Charlie’s acronym-ization of the “Havok” in Havok Journal. He answered. And then we moved on without me explaining what acronym Charlie came up with. We had talked about it on the first episode, so this should really be on you for not going back and listening to all of our old episodes first. (Please don’t. Seriously, we’re so much better than we were two months ago). So, on the off-chance you haven’t heard the first episode yet, it stands for “Have A Voice Outside of Killing (HAVOK).”

Marty says he leaned into leaving the military for a writing career like Leroy Jenkins. I didn’t have enough time to mention that Leroy Jenkins was a fraud. But you should know that by now.

It takes me just under a decade to get to Charlie in this week’s episode. How he hung on that long, I don’t know. Maybe he was delirious from holding his middle finger into the camera for a prolonged period of time. Wayne Knight once said that playing Newman on Seinfeld was challenging because he would only have a few lines an episode, yet he had to make a huge impact every time out. Charlie was our Wayne Knight this episode. Hopefully, he won’t ever have to be again. And I won’t do anything corny like say, “Hello, Charlie.” But seriously, he was on point.

So, while listening to a rough draft of the show, I winced, noticing that I laughed when Marty says that Vanessa Guillen wasn’t even the only soldier murdered at Fort Hood that month. Trust me, I don’t find anything that happened to her funny. But Marty had a great delivery, and, as I explained on the show, I was thinking of the tepid parents who don’t want their kids to enlist hearing this and rolling their eyes in “I told you so’s”. What happened to Vanessa Guillen was horrific and so crazily over the top, it’s hard to quickly summon appropriate human emotions when her case is thrown into a conversation. We rag a lot on Fort Hood in this episode, but, all joking aside, there is something rotten in the culture there that needs to be addressed, like, yesterday.

Show Notes

Marty Skovlund Jr.

The Ranger by Marty Skovlund Jr.

The True Story of How Standing Rock Fell by Marty Skovlund Jr.

The Longest War by Marty Skovlund Jr.

Violence of Action by Marty Skovlund Jr.

Nomadic Veterans

35P/SOT-A job description

Reagan Foundation poll

2020 Gallup Poll on US trust in the military

Vanessa Guillen murder at Fort Hood

Coffee or Die

Shannon Kent

Second Mission Foundation

FAIR

Bari Weiss

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Havok Journal

Savage Wonder

What crisis is going to blindside the US? That is the question I discuss this week with Havok Journal writer and IT expert Matt Trevathan. Matt does his best to shoehorn a cogent discussion of India, China, and Turkey into an hour-long podcast. For my part, I try to go full Foggy Bottom, using polysyllabic words (such as “polysyllabic”) while trying to manage a polished NPR-worthy voice throughout. Does it work? Well, Matt and I had fun. As for the rest of you…you’re gonna be smarter than you were an hour before, possessing just enough knowledge to be dangerous. Or not, I don’t know. You be the judge.

Show Alibis

You may have noticed we’ve started publishing each episode on Tuesdays. My producer, Michael Neal, was overly gracious with the scheduling early on, taking up his weekend with editing the show. So this evens his work/life balance. So that’s why. Or I have it wrong and Mike was just fed up dealing with my technical mishaps and decided he needed an extra 24 hours to bang his head against a wall. Either way, what do you think? Better? Worse? Hadn’t noticed?

Let me give you a little inside baseball look at our show. Charlie Faint likes to come on and give us a pre-game pep talk and, before this episode, he said that this would be the first tech issue-free show yet. I was cautiously optimistic. Then, during the show, in my headphones, Matt’s audio went out several times. But in the recording, well, it never did. So at one point I butt in because I think I’m saving the audience from dead air. Apparently, I was just cross-talking with Matt. Is it fair of me to blame Charlie for jinxing us? Nah. But I’ll try.

For the record, this is the first episode in recent memory in which I failed to commit a double entendre.

Matt was a great interview. He is even more interesting when we’re not recording. You may notice Matt pulling his punches at certain points during the episode. Bear in mind that Matt has a lot of contacts in India, China and Japan and travels there and elsewhere frequently. As Charlie reminded us last week on the show, one of the downsides of doing a podcast with guests who have real-world experiences in our subjects is sometimes they can’t unleash their opinions in full breadth or depth. It’s a worthwhile tradeoff, but just wanted to remind you why you shouldn’t expect bias-confirming expletive-laden rants too often from our guests. Fortunately, you have a lot of other options for that.

Show Notes

Biden comments on Armenian genocide

French companies exit Iran following US sanctions

France’s attempt to re-engage Iran

How the Kurds became stateless

COVID spike in India

The USN 7th Fleet Violates Indian Exclusive Economic Zone

A brief history of China’s actions and attitudes about the South China Sea

China’s Century of Humiliation

Should Japan Re-Militarize?

Havok Journal

Hope For Today

Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

It’s official, we’re pulling out of Afghanistan. This week, I talk with Havok Journal owner and camo net rolling expert Charlie Faint and the Havok Journal writer formerly known as Log Cinco about whether that is the right move. We scrutinize it from the counter-terrorism angle, the nation-building angle, the geo-political angle, and, most importantly for the guy glaring at me from his refrigerator box, the methamphetamine angle. Talk about Afghanistan withdrawl! I joke because the Afghanistan is too serious an issue to discuss without blowing off some steam. All three of us have done time in AFG and we discuss why the country and its future matters and I feel confident in saying that we will be back there militarily in some form within four years. Why? Well, I guess you’ll have to take a listen.

Show Alibis

It is true that Cris is our first pseudonymed guest. It is not true that he had to record this from the bottom of a well. But he did have to wear a mask and use a voice distorter which, almost by definition, doesn’t help the audio quality. That said, he is shockingly succinct, witty and articulate for this being his first known podcast. It’s appalling and we hope his cognitive abilities degrade substantially before he gets invited back.

I kept saying President Obama surged troops in Afghanistan in 2009, when it was actually 2011. Bear in mind, I was a History major. That means I should be better with remembering dates. But it also means I’m not great with numbers.

At one point Cris had to step away and charge his phone. Or so the Germans would have us believe.

Yes, I really said that we needed to do an episode featuring Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam vets discussing “pulling out.” Phrasing.

Show Notes

Women in miniskirts in Kabul

Ghost Wars by Steve Coll

Directorate S by Steve Coll

President Biden’s comments on Afghanistan withdrawl

Democratic Peace Theory

President Obama’s comments on the Afghanistan surge

British counterinsurgency in Malaysia

Afghanistan by Thomas Barfield

PRT concept

Jen Psaki’s comments on GRU relationship with “individuals and Afghan criminal organizations”.

Al Qaeda and the Taliban are, at this point, almost interchangeable terms in Afghanistan

How do you solve a problem like Maria?

The Flawed Reasoning Behind Biden’s Afghanistan Withdrawl by Thomas Joscelyn

Tablet K and drugs in Afghanistan

Article 107

The Russian Bounty Story Was Always Murky by Thomas Joscelyn

Second Mission Foundation

Havok Journal

Americans worry a lot that we are headed towards ruin – unsustainable spending, foreign adventurism, even civil war. How warranted is that concern? I sat down this week with Havok Journal owner Charlie Faint to discuss the three best ways to become a failed state. We take the scenic route to get there, which is very “on-brand” for us. Somehow The Sound of Music weaves its way into the episode…three times. Which may say more about us than we planned to reveal prior to the episode. Crumbling infrastructure, personal terror, lively musicals, this episode covers it all.  

Show Alibis

As you’ve heard me say every week on the podcast, the Weekly Havok is a “roundtable discussion of the week’s events by the staff and writers at Havok Journal.” This week that was still sort of true, it’s just that the roundtable was much, much smaller than normal. No great story behind it, it just became me and Charlie due to the machinations of the scheduling gods. We had a good time, although we realized that we actually could have done the show in person, but clearly COVID restrictions have become so embedded in our brains, it never occurred to us until the show started.  

Charlie mentions it at the end of the episode, but Jimmy Gagliano is mayor in Cornwall-on-the-Hudson. This isn’t so much an alibi as an extra opportunity to congratulate him. He won by three votes, which indicates that any politician who needs a competitive advantage in a tight race should think about coming on the show.  

On the other hand…there’s always a danger in talking. For writers like me, talking is just broadcasting your first draft out loud which makes it kind of a crapshoot to listen to. I only mention this because there’s a point in the episode when Charlie and I compare how many of Fund for Peace’s top ten fragile states we’ve been to. I say something to Charlie about not meaning to make it a “dick-measuring” contest, since “I know yours is bigger than mine” or something to that effect. And then I silently – but not audibly – say my favorite line from Archer: “phrasing!” which leaves the distinct impression that I know way more about Charlie than I should. Was this an intentional act on my part so I could keep these alibis relevant and necessary? Or do I just pick amazing times to brain fart? Either way, I apologize to Charlie and to everyone listening. I’m riddled with shame and I can’t shake my head enough (phrasing). I’d like to blame COVID, since I haven’t had my shot of Johnson & Johnson (careful…). But sometimes when you’re talking and a real boner leaves your mouth (seriously?), you’re too headstrong (c’mon) and cocksure (do you even hear yourself?) to notice. It’s the danger of doing a topical podcast, and it’s a good reminder that it can’t be all lollipops (huh?) and joysticks (that’s not a saying). In the future, I promise to up my caffeine dosage and use my damn head (I…I give up).

Show Notes

Wokeness and the New Cold War by John Schindler

Fund for Peace’s Fragile State Index 2020

Returning to the “Poor Game” of U.S. Modern Warfare by Scott Faith

The First Generation of the Warrior Class by Christopher Paul Meyer

Family Guy and the military

John Kerry demeans military service

Modern War Institute at West Point

How did The Sound of Music end in real life?

The Wisdom of Youth by Jonah Goldberg

The Coddling of the American Mind by Greg Lukianoff and Johnathan Haidt

“We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.” George Orwell, Facing Unpleasant Facts

“A republic, if you can keep it.”

Am I the bad guy in Breakfast Club?

Second Mission Foundation

Havok Journal

Black Rifle Coffee Company

Savage Wonder

When fewer than 1% of the country has ever served in the military, it is not surprising that veterans and current military members are acutely aware that they carry a significant and disproportionate burden in the country. This often creates the perception among military folks that the civilian world needs to understand the military better to bridge the civ-mil divide. But this week, we look through the other end of the telescope – what does the military need to know about the civilian world? I was joined by author Dr. Alice Atalanta, Havok Journal writer Kathy Livermore, and Havok Journal Chief Marketing Officer Alyssa Sudermann to talk through the issue.

I’m not really sure what happened, but I’m going to try to blame Kathy who was talking about why she and her son started sending Halloween candy to deployed soldiers, got us all interested and distracted and completely jumbled up our structure (“Wait, the show has a structure?” – Charlie Faint). We end up with a very focused meander (“Can a meander be focused? – Charlie) as we discussed topics like the importance of military uniforms, the struggle to find meaning as an individual, and how easy it is to turn us against each other. You don’t have to be a veteran transitioning out of the military or struggling with a sense of purpose to find stuff to like in this episode – but if you are, this episode will really resonate with you.

Show Alibis

This episode hopefully concludes my two-episode arc as “host suffering from COVID.” I thought I might say a little something clever and biting about it on-air, but Kathy derailed my plans which is probably best for both our listening audience and the CCP (“Very little overlap in that Venn Diagram” – Charlie). COVID hasn’t been fun and, while it seems like everyone’s mileage varies with it, I can’t help but feel that Chris Cuomo excessively wallowed in the drama of it while recording his show. But, as Alice brought up during the show, not every problem is about US domestic tensions, so let me take this opportunity to say that a pompous, possibly full-of-shit TV host is better than the lying, obfuscating, manipulative Chinese government that unleashed this.

This episode marked the first time there were no technical difficulties before, during or after the show. Which means you can publicize the show to your friends and family without hesitation or embarrassment. But if you’re still not sure and want to minimize the risk to your reputation, by all means go ahead and only publicize us with your frenemies, passive-aggressive co-workers, and lukewarm acquaintances.

At one point, Alyssa was in the middle of an erudite comment when she lost her train of thought (“You know we found her in a biker bar, right?” – Charlie). So I felt it only fair to provide her comment in its entirety: “It is hard to know what other way men can come to truth, to lay hold of it, if they do not dig and search for it as for gold and hid treasure; but he that does so, must have much earth and rubbish, before he gets the pure metal; sand, and pebbles, and dross usually lie blended with it, but the gold is nevertheless gold, and will enrich the man that employs his pains to seek and separate it.” I always want to hear more from Alyssa because she tells awesome stories and does some really important work. But also because she sounds nothing like John Locke.

Show Notes

Dr. Alice Atalanta

Navigating Chaos by Jeff Boss and Dr. Alice Atalanta

Meditations of an Army Ranger by JC Glick and Dr. Alice Atalanta

We are the Useful Idiots

Why I’m Thanking You For Your Service

Second Mission Foundation

More about Russian disinformation

Vicky Peleaz and the Anna Chapman Spy Ring

The Righteous Mind by Johnathan Haidt

Havok Journal

Savage Wonder

Where is the next war going to be? Havok Journal writer Kerry Patton and HJ owner Charlie Faint came on the show to discuss. We talked about a lot of interesting things - who are the closest friends to the US, is the US racist and how does China conduct information operations - but no one gave me a satisfactory, unpredictable, novel answer about where our next war will be. So, I’ll tell you now - the answer is “Turkey...the Indian Ocean...with a candlestick.” What do you want accuracy or a cool answer?

Show Alibis

• Yes, the sounds you hear throughout the episode are Kerry Patton’s roosters. We would have featured them more, but they know shockingly little about Sino-Pacific Rim relations. Like most livestock, their expertise revolves around domestic monetary policy.

Show Notes

Havok Journal

Hey Blinken!

Savage Wonder

Tucker Carlson. The Guam National Guard. A 60-day standdown so DoD can look for extremists in its ranks. Is the military becoming too involved in domestic politics? Christopher Paul Meyer speaks with Havok Journal writers Steven B. Lewis, Dave Hartman and Kevin Wilson. 

Show Alibis 

-- Dave Hartmann hit me up after the episode because he was worried that, in the course of telling us about the virtues of hunting, he had advised us all to "play with our meat." I didn't remember him saying it, and I was kicking myself for missing it. I didn't bother to go back and see if he said it because some things are too good to check. I included his concerns in the intro just to make sure I made the most of the opportunity.

For his part, Dave wrote out a full press release to justify his wording:

"In my bit about hunting as a hobby, I had a great spiel in mind to speak about how a hobby or pastime with seasonal flow is psychologically good for anyone. Generally, one hunts in the fall. During the winter, you recover and experiment with different wild game recipes. The springtime is for researching and applying for new hunts, possibly in new areas. During the summer, you train, practice with your weapon, and scout new country. Then fall comes and you start the process all over again. 

Looking forward to these phases, all the planning, anticipation, and map-scouting turns out to be nearly as fun as hunting itself. It’s not just me that thinks this, the phenomenon is common among normal vacationers also. You know, the people the NY Times writes for, who generally don’t blow their free time in the wilderness seeking, then killing, a large cervid, then packing it out of the woods in backpacks, one quarter at a time: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/11/travel/what-a-great-trip-and-im-not-even-there-yet.html

I fear the actual words that came out of my mouth during our conversation came out far less eloquent, possibly even bumbling, dooming me to having this be my first and last podcast ever. In hopes of covering for this, I offer my favorite recipe for a steak cut from any hooved critter. It’s my go-to for elk and deer and is beautiful in its simplicity. Just please don’t judge me on the sounds my face makes, I’m way better at writing, and cooking, than I am at speaking.

https://www.themeateater.com/cook/cooking-techniques/how-to-cook-a-backstrap-steak

Don’t you dare put ketchup on it if you’re older than 12 or you’ll never fill another tag again...it’s science."

After all that, it turns out that what Dave actually said was to "clean our meat." At least we got a good recipe and a meh joke out of it. I regret nothing.

-- I, however, did say that when vets return home from war, they may need to "straighten out a few kinks." By failing to expand on that, I probably left you with images of ass-less chaps and leather bodysuits. I'm at least 63% sure that's not what I meant. 

Show Links

“War Comes Full Circle: How a Crime Fighting Cop Revolutionized Urban Warfare” by Stephen B. Lewis

“Military Veterans and ‘Fresh Air Poisoning’” by David Hartmann

“The Cost of Civility: We Need to Talk” by Kevin Wilson

Right 2 Bear

Backcountry Hunters and Anglers

Comfort Farms

Havok Journal

Savage Wonder

Christopher Paul Meyer speaks with James A. Gagliano, Ayman Kafel, and Charlie Faint about the Prince Harry/Meghan Markle interview with Oprah. Where others see the Royals’ soap opera through the lens of celebrity culture, we wonder if Harry is just another military vet without a mission. In true Havok Journal fashion, we use the interview as a jumping off point to talk about toxic masculinity, the loss of purpose, and calls to defund the police.

Show Alibis 

- What I'm about to tell you is something I've never told anyone before. And it is absolutely, 100% true. Ever since I got back from Vietnam, I've been on the run from my former comrades in MACV-SOG. It's a long story that involves heroin shipments, chemical interrogation, and a plot to kill a sitting US Senator. They caught up with me just as I was driving to the studio to record this episode. I used my 5th Dan aikido skills, but there were just too many of them. I ended up locked in the trunk of my car. But since Jimmy Gagliano had gone out of his way to pause his mayoral campaigning to be on the show, I was damned if I wasn't going to do the episode. So I open up my laptop and use some crappy headset I found under the spare tire. Fortunately, the two guys assigned to guard me were driving me to a safehouse somewhere near the Canadian border, so I had just enough time to do the full hour. Just as I signed off, they opened the trunk and I used the crappy headset to gouge one of their eyes out, while knocking the other out with my laptop. I picked up the car keys and said "Thanks for the ride," to no one in particular. Just then, about 15 state police cruisers showed up, lights and sirens going. "Freeze!" they ordered me. I raised my hands and gave them a world-weary look. "No!" screamed my wife, who had gone along with them and is also a plucky journalist and a lingerie supermodel. "He's innocent!" And they walked up to me and said sorry for the misunderstanding and something along the lines of "I'm glad our country still has heroes like you." And I nodded wearily because I've seen this all before, and my wife ran up and hugged me and we walked over to the bad guys' car and drove off as the credits began to roll. So that's why my audio just absolutely sucks throughout the episode. But when you consider all that I did that day to make America safe, I think we can still chalk it up as a win. (NOTE - none of this is even close to the plot of Above the Law). 

- When talking about how Dean Stott met Prince Harry, I say that they both attended the British equivalent of our JTAC training, which I label "Joint Tactical Air Control." I meant "Joint Terminal Attack Controller." I was not Air Force. It showed. 

- In the episode, I make a comparison between the "defund the police" movement and the anti-Balaka militias of the Central African Republic. I meant to use the Selekas/ex-Selekas as an example. As everyone knows, the anti-Balaka are the enemy of the Seleka (and ex-Seleka). I'm sure you all noticed and are appropriately offended. I join you in your outrage.

Havok Journal

Project Sapient

Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund

Second Mission Foundation

"False Reporting: A True Epidemic in Policing" by Ayman Kafel

"Living with a Mobster" by James A. Gagliano

James A. Gagliano website

Savage Wonder

In this pilot episode of The Weekly Havok, Christopher Paul Meyer talks to the owner of The Havok Journal, Charlie Faint, and its chief marketing officer, Alyssa Sudermann, about the origin story of The Havok Journal.

Havok Journal

Violence of Action: Untold Stories of the 75th Ranger Regiment in the War on Terror by Marty Skovlund Jr.

"A 'Rip-It Ranger' Looks Back" by Shane Snell

"Empty Chairs" by Anonymous

"We Are the Useful Idiots" by Alice Atalanta

"The Morning After I Killed Myself" by Meggie Royer

James A. Gagliano

Kevin Wilson

Marshall McGurk

Mike Kelvington

"Stop Thanking Me for My Service" by JC Glick

"In the Shadow of JSOC" by Mike Warnock

The Second Mission Foundation

Savage Wonder