Kammy and Ben are joined by former Norwich and West Ham striker Dean Ashton and you can listen to it first on BBC Sounds.

Dean recalls his career from being a precocious talent at Crewe to winning his only England cap under Fabio Capello - not that he was a big fan of Dean's physique. He also recalls being wooed by Alan Pardew, explains why Steven Gerrard isn't human and remembers the time his non-football watching dad told a legend to get lost.

BBC Sounds is the best place to listen to Kammy and Ben's Proper Football Podcast with new episodes available first, a month before anywhere else.