Today, Hunter sat with Josh Occhiogrosso-Schwartz, a Principal at the Wren Collective, to discuss their recent report on flat rate Public Defender contracts in California. Long time listeners of the show will recall that the American Bar Association discourages the use of flat rate fees because of the negative economic incentive it creates for the attorneys working under those contracts. In what will come as a surprise to no one who studies Public Defense, the Wren Collective examined the 24 counties in California who utilized flat rate contracts for their Public Defender needs, and they found a system that wholly failed to protect the right to counsel. From a lack of investigators to minimal oversight over specific attorneys, these flat rate contracts are failing the counties in California. Fortunately, there is a bill pending in the state that may see the use of these contracts come to an end.

Guest

Josh Occhiogrosso-Schwartz, Principal, The Wren Collective

Resources:

Read the Report Here:

https://www.wrencollective.org/_files/ugd/8fe8f0_71aac7e039fd4ee695ec6c8736cd1b72.pdf

Contact Josh Here

[email protected]

Follow the Bill (AB690) Here

https://aclucalaction.org/bill/ab-690/

Contact Hunter Parnell:                                

[email protected] 

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Today, Hunter spoke with Julie Ciccolini, the CEO of Techtivist. When she was working as a paralegal at the NY Legal Aid Society, Julie, like so many in a Public Defender Office, realized that there was immense amounts of data on police misconduct that was going un-used. So, Julie helped to set up a database that allowed Public Defenders to track and use this data in their cases. Realizing that this issue extended far beyond New York, Julie founded Techtivist as a way to help Public Defenders set up and utilize databases that keep track of police misconduct.  

Guest

Julie Ciccolini, CEO, Techtivist

Resources:

Check out Techtivist Here

https://www.techtivist.com/

Read the Blue Wall of Silence Report Here

https://www.nacdl.org/Document/DismantlingtheBlueWallofSilenceTrackLawEnfMiscond

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Today, Hunter sat down with Zachary Heiden, Carol Garvan, and Professor Eve Primus to discuss the ACLU of Maine’s major victory in the fight to change Maine’s Public Defense. Since the Sixth Amendment Center’s report came out years ago, one thing was clear about Public Defense in Maine: it was in a state of crisis. Now, there finally appears to be a path out of the crisis. Thanks in part to the lawsuit filed by the ACLU of Maine, the courage of public defenders, the judiciary, and the delayed but strong action of the legislature, Maine is on the path to Public Defender Offices around the state. On this episode, we discuss how this happened, why it was needed, and what other states can and should learn from this story.

Guest

Carol Garvan, Legal Director, ACLU of Maine

Zachary Heiden, Chief Counsel, ACLU of Maine

Eve Primus, Professor of Law, University of Michigan

Resources:

Contact the ACLU of Maine Here

https://www.aclumaine.org/en

Read more about the decision here

https://www.aclumaine.org/en/robbinsvictory#:~:text=A%20superior%20court%20ruled%20in,to%20end%20the%20ongoing%20crisis.&text=In%20April%202019%2C%20the%20Sixth,on%20public%20defense%20in%20Maine.

6AC Report

https://6ac.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/6AC_me_report_2019.pdf

Professor Primus’s Faculty Page

https://michigan.law.umich.edu/faculty-and-scholarship/our-faculty/eve-brensike-primus

Contact Hunter Parnell:                                

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Today, Hunter is Re-Releasing his episode with Professor of Law Corinna Lain becuase her book, Secretes of the Killing State: The Untold Story of Lethal Injection, is now available! If you haven't listened already or picked up a copy of the book, now is great time to remember the hisotry of lethal injection and what that history means for the death peanlty today!

https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Killing-State-Untold-Injection/dp/1479832960

Today, Hunter spoke with Law Professor Corinna Lain to discuss her career of research around the death penalty and lethal injection. While it may seem strange to hyper focus on lethal injection, there is something to be said about understanding how and why lethal injection became the defacto method for state sanctioned murder. When lethal injection was offered to the American people, it was designed to do one simple thing: hide the reality of state sponsored murder. So long as people could look away from the violence of the state, they could place execution out of mind. In doing so, the practice could continue in relative secrecy. Today’s episode is about lifting the shroud on that secrecy to examine the way the lethal injection is just as, if not more, violent, cruel, and unusual and any other form of execution.  

Guests:

Corrina Lain, SD Roberts and Sandra Moore Professor of Law, Richmond School of Law

Resources:

Can Europe end the Death Penalty? https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/02/can-europe-end-the-death-penalty-in-america/283790/

US Botched Executions

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/botched-executions

Execution of Clayton Lockett

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/13/botched-oklahoma-execution-clayton-lockett-bloody-mess

 Corinna Lain Faculty Page

https://law.richmond.edu/faculty/clain/

Contact Hunter Parnell:

[email protected] 

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Today, Hunter spoke Massachusetts Criminal Defense Lawyer Murat Erkan. Recently, Murat represented Wilson Martell-Lebron in a criminal trial in Boston Municipal Court. Martell-Lebron faced two felony charges related to accusations that he lied on his driver’s license application. At its core, this case was an accusation that Martell-Lebron was an undocumented immigrant. However, Martell-Lebron never got to vindicate his innocence because the Suffolk County DA, the police involved in the case, and an ICE agent conspired to abducted Martell-Lebron in the middle of his trial. This episode is a wild documentation of a conspiracy to subvert a man’s right to trial.

Guest

Murat Erkan, Partner and Criminal Defense Lawyer, Erkan Sullivan PC, Massachusetts

Resources:

Google Drive Containing the Court Filings

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pegoD0V5gEFXZqcsMQKOYcu9s1_AX3JV?usp=sharing

Coverage Once the Federal Court got the Contempt

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/ice-agent-contempt-boston-trial-arrest/#:~:text=Boston%20Municipal%20Court%20Judge%20Mark,to%20bring%20charges%20against%20Sullivan.

https://apnews.com/article/ice-immigration-arrest-trial-contempt-8b35498ddd96ccf1bc3ff772e6ef5106

https://apnews.com/article/boston-immigration-ice-municipal-court-due-process-f2d13626ffba28025a3e0314fa6ca908

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Today, Hunter spoke with Damon Drake, Executive Director of We Resolve Minnesota, a participatory defense organization out of the twin cities. As is the case in our discussion about participatory defense, Damon joins the show to discuss the successes and challenges of trying to get Public Defenders onboard with the participatory defense.

Guest

Damon Drake, Executive Director, We Resolve Minnesota

Resources:

Learn more about We Resolve Here

https://weresolve-mn.com/

Contact Hunter Parnell:                                

[email protected] 

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Today, Hunter spoke with Heather Rogers and Caitlin Becker of the Santa Cruz County Public Defenders. In 2020, the Sixth Amendment Center put together a report detailing the severe issues with how Santa Cruz County provided Public Defense. At the time, a law firm was working a flat rate fee contract to provide public defender services in the county. As is expected, that system was deeply flawed and couldn’t meet the demands of the Sixth Amendment. Fast forward five years, Heather, Caitlin, and the team at the Santa Cruz County Public Defender has transformed the office into a comprehensive holistic defender program. How did that happen? What are the benefits of this model? All those questions and more on today’s episode!

Guest

Heather Rogers, The Public Defender, Santa Cruz County, California

Caitlin Becker, Director of Holistic Defense, Santa Cruz County, California

Resources:

Read the 6AC Report Here

https://6ac.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/6AC_ca_santacruzcountyreport_2020.pdf

Contact Santa Cruz County Public Defenders Here

https://www.santacruzdefenders.us/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-rogers-3525b4242/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtvUi9TWRyNIOvEwgHN87KA

https://www.facebook.com/CruzDefenders#

https://www.instagram.com/cruzdefender/

https://x.com/cruzdefender

Contact Hunter Parnell:                                

[email protected] 

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Guest

Heather Rogers, The Public Defender, Santa Cruz County, California

Caitlin Becker, Director of Holistic Defense, Santa Cruz County, California

Resources:

Read the 6AC Report Here

https://6ac.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/6AC_ca_santacruzcountyreport_2020.pdf

Contact Santa Cruz County Public Defenders Here

https://www.santacruzdefenders.us/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-rogers-3525b4242/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtvUi9TWRyNIOvEwgHN87KA

https://www.facebook.com/CruzDefenders#

https://www.instagram.com/cruzdefender/

https://x.com/cruzdefender

Contact Hunter Parnell:                                

[email protected] 

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@PublicDefenselessPodcast

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Today, Hunter spoke with journalist Piper French about the wrongful conviction of Jimmie “Chris” Duncan. In 1998, Duncan was convicted of murdering his girlfriend’s 23-month-old daughter. Originally, Duncan was charged with negligent homicide as it appeared his story, that he stepped away for a few minutes while the child took a bath and then she fell and drowned, was accurate. However, the notorious peddler of the junk science bite mark “evidence,” Dr. Michael West, conducted a dubious autopsy where he pressed a mould of Duncan’s teeth into the body of the girl. With this dubious autopsy and the help of a jail house snitch, the state convicted Duncan of capital murder. Since then, Duncan has been fighting to prove his innocence, but with Governor Jeff Landry’s drive to increase the number of executions in the Louisiana, Duncan might never get the chance.  

Guest

Piper French, Part Time Staff Writer at Bolt Magazine, Freelance Journalist

Resources:

Read the Article Here

https://boltsmag.org/the-human-cost-of-jeff-landrys-drive-to-resume-executions/

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/03/louisiana-execution-bolts-chris-duncan-jeff-landry-death-row-capital-punishment/ 

Read more by Piper Here

https://www.psfrench.com/

Contact Piper

[email protected]

https://x.com/pipersfrench

https://bsky.app/profile/psfrench.bsky.social

Read more About Duncan’s Case Here

https://innocenceproject.org/petitions/stop-the-execution-of-an-innocent-man-jimmie-chris-duncan/

https://www.propublica.org/article/louisiana-jimmie-duncan-bite-mark-analysis-death-row-junk-science

Contact Hunter Parnell:                                

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Today, Hunter sat down with Heather Lewis a participatory defense organizer and the Executive Director of the Reuniting Family Bail Fund. Unlike many places where participatory defense hubs have been set up, Montgomery County Public Defenders welcomed participatory defense with open arms. Today, we will see the benefit of having an activated community when policy makers retaliate against public defenders.

Guest

Heather Lewis, Reuniting Family Bail Fund, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania

Resources:

Reuniting Family Bail Fund Websites and Socials

https://bailfundmontco.org/

https://www.youtube.com/@reunitingfamilybailfund

https://www.instagram.com/familybailfund/

https://x.com/familybailfund

https://www.facebook.com/reunitingfamilybailfund

Coverage of Retaliation Against Montgomery County Public Defenders

https://www.inquirer.com/news/montgomery-county-public-defenders-fired-lawsuit-keisha-hudson-dean-beer-20200318.html#:~:text=Fired%20public%20defenders%20sue%2C%20alleging%20Montgomery%20County%20retaliated%20for%20bail%20practice%20criticism.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/montgomery-county-public-defenders-commissioners-protest-dean-beer-keisha-hudson-20200305.html

https://theappeal.org/pennsylvania-public-defenders-not-reinstated-despite-public-outcry-over-firing/#:~:text=Montgomery%20County%20Chief%20Public%20Defender,Photo%20courtesy%20of%20ACLU%20Pennsylvania.

https://www.aclupa.org/en/press-releases/aclu-pa-statement-response-dismissal-montgomery-county-chief-and-deputy-public

Contact Hunter Parnell:                                

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Today, Hunter sat down with Civil Rights lawyers Darold Killmer and Maddie Lips to discuss a tragic case. James Purdy, a 76 year old man with dementia and Parkinson’s, was arrested after a women alleged he attempted to kidnap her. When he was arrested, Purdy incredibly frail condition was obvious and his family insisted he be kept on his essential medication. Unfortunately, the Jefferson Count Jail staff did not comply with this request. Over his multi-week pretrial incarceration, Purdy was recorded falling around 100 times, and ultimately, these falls left him with injuries that would lead to his death.

Guest

Darold Killmer, Partner, Killmer Lane Civil Rights Litigation, Denver, CO

Maddie Lips, Associate, Killmer Lane Civil Rights Litigation, Denver, CO

Resources:

Contact Killmer Lane

https://killmerlane.com/

Contact Darold and Maddie

[email protected]

[email protected]

Read More About James Purdy’s Case

https://www.denver7.com/news/local-news/family-of-man-with-dementia-files-federal-lawsuit-after-his-2023-death-in-jefferson-county-jail

https://www.9news.com/article/news/investigations/9news-investigates-arrest-death-jim-purdy/73-091a289f-4dbe-47cb-99a6-10ba61a141b0

Contact Hunter Parnell:                                

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