During Jon's latest trip to Boston, he crashed the new offices of UpperEdge, an independent enterprise and IT advisory firm with strong views on the potent topics of digital transformation and getting value of out cloud. During this unscripted, 45 minute dialogue, Jon talks with UpperEdge's John Belden and Adam Mansfield about the problem of digital transformation in the real world. The guys shift into cloud issues, and why customers are wary that SaaS can be just another form of lock-in, with the same licensing headaches. The conversation wraps with a freewheeling review of the latest cloud news, from Salesforce acquiring Tableau to Google Cloud's ups and downs in its enterprise push. The Bruins game seven loss the night before is almost totally avoided, but not quite.