In today's episode Guilaine reflects on the treatment of Chidimma Adetshina in relation to the Miss Universe competition, specifically her treatment within South Africa in relation to her perceived nationality that resulted in her becoming Miss Universe Nigeria, before coming second in the over-all competition.

She muses on the case, beauty, the race and migration related politics of France and South Africa, displacement, scapegoating, so called Black-on-Black violence, self hatred, envy, and what all that might mean for group dynamics in the workplace.

At various points she refers to things that she covered within Living While Black: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/442992/living-while-black-by-kinouani-guilaine/9781529109436

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In today's episode Simone reflects on the ageism and how it intersects with other systems of oppression inside and outside of the workplace. They draw on their experience working with clients, their personal experience and some studies and articles around the topic.

They begin with their definition of ageism as a system of inequality that impacts people who are either on the young or old sides of the age spectrum. They think about how people often think of older, elderly and ageing people when thinking about ageism but often don’t include younger people who are also vulnerable and discriminated against and in the case of children and babies do not have rights or their own or autonomy.

They then bring in intersectionality to thinking about ageism and stress how age is very tied to gender and race and the ways these systems of oppression work. And they think about how ageism in the workplace is connected very strongly to ageism in personal life, and connected issues around a lack of autonomy. Issues that old and young people face have a lot of similarities, but because society glorifies youth many people don’t consider the ways in which children lack rights and autonomy, and the ways young people are a vulnerable population.

They then look at the article Ageism and age discrimination by Sheldon Reid https://www.helpguide.org/aging/healthy-aging/ageism-and-age-discrimination

They have strong critique of the article: young people are not included and are told they have it easy, and it claims that ageism is considered more acceptable by society than other forms of discrimination. But they appreciate the articles categories of ageism:

Interpersonal: Which has a lot of relevance to the workplace, particularly when the ageism intersects with disability and neurodivergence. There are many ways to be dismissed from, or dismissed at, your job due to your age. Age can also factor into if you can get another job and so trap you in a work situation.

Self directed ageism: Internalised attitudes and beliefs, often overlapping deeply with attitudes to gender and sexuality and bodies

Institutional ageism: Social norms, practices, systems and rules are different for people who are older, and somehow this goes along with countries trying to raise retirement age. As we look at systems of oppression and institutions we also need to strongly consider class and race and gender.

They then consider a 2020 survey which found that 80% of older workers witnessed or experienced ageism, and stated that older women of colour face age, race and sex discrimination in their personal lives as well as face institutionalised disadvantages at work, in their housing, and in their healthcare. 

Thinking about health they consider all the ways ageism exacerbates the effects of ageing in general, and the forms of ageism that are prevalent within healthcare and health research.

Then finish by looking at the article Age, Race And Gender Create A Triple Threat For Workplace Bias by Sheila Callaham: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sheilacallaham/2022/10/31/age-race-and-gender-create-a-triple-threat-of-workplace-bias/ which offers some ways to approach pushing back against ageism and the other systems it intersects with within workplaces.

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In today's episode Guilaine shares a personal statement that encapsulates her personal position, politics and solidarity around the genocide happening in Palestine, and then reflects and expands on that.

Her base position is that she stands in solidarity with Palestine from the wounded margin of Black liberation, but that she will not, and should not take the lead in this struggle. Particularly when there are current struggles against genocide and war in South Sudan and the DRC that are less public, and given the histories of colonial violence and anti-blackness for the Black African Diaspora.

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In today's episode Simone reflects on the experiences of people who go through pregnancy and birth whilst navigating and trying to balance that with employment.

They begin by with a note about why they are using more inclusive terms to cover this subject and some definitions of cisgender, transgender and intersectionality. And suggest we keep all of this in mind during the episode as most of the research talked about does not apply this kind of inclusivity.

They then discuss, with reference to a 2013 report from the Harvard Business School, the ways that race and work status affect judgement of mothers, acknowledging that mothers get a lot of personal judgment within society despite  facing a lot of structural forms of inequality. They suggest that mothers should  generally be understood as multiply marginalised people.

They talk about the "Motherhood penalty” relating this to their own lived experience. They cover some of the stereotypes that impact this judgment of mothers and how this relates to their treatment in the workplace. Mothers are judged as less competent and less committed than other applicants and employees and so are less likely to be hired or promoted. This relates to stereotypes from the gender binary such as women being nurturing and domestic.

They consider that the majority of studies of motherhood discrimination focus on how white mothers are treated in the workplace but obviously race plays a huge role in how Black mothers and other mothers of colour are treated. There are studies that suggest that Black mothers who don’t work experience more prejudice than those who do work based on racist stereotypes of irresponsibility, whereas with white mums it is often seen as better and more responsible if they don’t work. For example a study suggested that white families are more likely to receive loans if the mothers stay at home with the children, whereas Black and Latino families are more likely to be granted loans if the mother works outside the home. Then they think more about the race-based double standards between working and stay-at-home mums, and how divisions around who are “better” mothers, and if mothers should work, play into patriarchy and white supremacy. 

They then look at a more recent Time magazine piece about how the pay gap for working mums is a race issue and disproportionately impacts women of colour particularly Black women. This isn’t about women’s choices but about structural possibilities and foreclosures, and in particular a lack of institutional policies supporting them. 

They conclude with the idea that for things to change there needs to be structural and cultural changes implemented within workplaces with an understanding of how these policies impact communities differently. For example paid family leave, men taking leave too, affordable childcare, flexible time, paid sick leave, and much more!

References:

Gender and Work: Challenging Conventional Wisdom https://www.hbs.edu/race-gender-equity/symposium/Pages/2013-symposium.aspx

Prescriptions and Punishments for Working Moms: How Race and Work Status Affect Judgments of Mothers by Amy Cuddy and Elizabeth Baily Wolf https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=50970

Mama, PhD: Women Write about Motherhood and Academic Life https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mama-PhD-Women-Motherhood-Academic/dp/0813543185 

Why the Pay Gap for Working Moms Is a Race Issue Too by Jennifer Siebel Newsom https://time.com/5848269/moms-equal-pay-day/

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In today's episode following two queries on social media for her to do so, Guilaine reflects on the Police officer being found not guilty for the fatal shooting of Chris Kaba.

First she thinks about the reasons she was hesitant to talk about this subject, she hasn’t read or studied the case in an in-depth way as she finds anti-Black police brutality particularly activating/triggering because of experiences witnessing it growing up. She can talk about the theory around it but to actually view and witness it is very difficult for her. From here she considers how our histories and our formative years influence our politics and the positions we adopt in relation to equality and oppression and how her childhood gave her an introduction to injustice and structural violence.

She reflects briefly on the trial and wonders about its validity and if the Police acted with proportionality but as she is not a firearms expert she cannot fully comment on this. However she has expertise on how institutions function when they have to defend against charges of institutional racism, so connecting the case to the workplace, she focuses on character assassination. And also points out that we are thinking about these issues in terms of morality and ethics rather than legality, because what is legal is not always what is moral or ethical.

She looks at how the press has reported on Chris’ character. She thinks about how Black men are disproportionately assessed as posing a greater risk than other people, which we can see from various studies and data including ones looking at the Police force and mental health services.

Looking towards the workplace she discusses how people tend to utilise the most usable applicable tropes to reduce cognitive dissonance. In this case it was the trope of dangerousness. In employment when people want to justify exclusion usually if they are a woman they will be seen as difficult and if they are a man they will be seen as dangerous. She ends posing some questions to consider around these areas when thinking about the workplace, this legal case, and about society in general.

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In today's episode Simone reflects on autism, neurodivergence and racism in relation to work.

They begin by talking about how and why they decided to cover this topic, reflecting on how they are autistic and work supporting autistic people, and how autistic and neurodivergent people are often unable to remain in employment or are unceremoniously fired. How these stories are systemic but are often carried as individual shame.

They remind us that neurodivergent is an umbrella term, autism is part of this umbrella but that the terms shouldn’t be used interchangeably. Then they explore a TikTok account by Professor Sol that summarises a variety of studies regarding autistic people: https://www.tiktok.com/@better_sol

They consider the statistics that only 16% of autistic people are employed. And that autistic employees face the biggest pay gap and are the most under employed group whilst being the most overqualified group of all disabled groups. Then they reflect on how in addition to this people who are not cisgender white men are often misdiagnosed/undiagnosed as not autistic because of the way that white autistic men are the stereotype associated with autism in the media and in general. They discuss how for multiply marginalised people self diagnosis and self advocacy is incredibly important and valid. And how the criteria developed and employed around autism is fed by white supremacy and white “western” ideas, and how self diagnosis is a way of reclaiming experience.

Then they think about how racism, classism, sexism and other systems of oppression exacerbate autistic people’s difficulties in workplaces and with employment. How this contributes to autistic burnout and autistic shutdown and seriously effects people's health. They look at the study "Intersectional Stigma for Autistic People at Work: A Compound Adverse Impact Effect on Labor Force Participation and Experiences of Belonging https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36777372/ 

One of the things highlighted in this study is how little research exists about autistic people at work because the majority of autistic people don’t work. They think about what “work” means within our current cultural moment and whether “work” works for any of us. The study found that white autistic people living in the global north are more likely to have jobs and to have jobs that are accommodating for autistic people, And that women, non binary and transgender people feel less included at work and that feeling that someone cares is more important than accommodations.

They conclude by talking about accommodations that can be made but also that there are larger systemic adjustments that need to be made, and that employers and workplaces need to be attuned to intersections of oppression, to be attuned to how autistic people are not to be cured, fixed or exploited. But that this is a tough conversation for autistic people to have because the stigma means that many people don’t feel safe to be openly autistic in their workplaces.

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In today's episode Guilaine reflects on White Liberals, and on her past inclination to take people straightforwardly based on the words they write and the face they present to the world. She considers how experiencing the duality and complexity of people presenting as anti-racist publicly who in their personal interactions reveal themselves to be anti-black, has led to her trying to be more cautious about her tendency to trust people.

She thinks about her lived experience, widens it out to consider how people can understand and even agree with the theory but fail consciously or unconsciously to enact the practice. And she also ties this duality to her own experiences visiting the Congo.

She concludes by considering how this duality and complexity impacts the workplace and encourages people, particularly in relation to tribunals, to remember and consider this when addressing issues around race where for example a white person accused of race discrimination may be presenting as polite, reasonable and an outstanding member of the community.

The episode "Reflections on a trip to the Congo" is referenced in this podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1623760/episodes/14947769

If you would like to send us a question, query or dilemma that we could reflect on and respond to on the show please email [email protected] or [email protected] 

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In today's episode Simone reflects on the COVID 19 pandemic and how it intersects with racism and ableism. They begin by thinking about the Olympics in relation to a lack of COVID mitigations and how we need to have conversations about COVID and racism in relation to workplace inequality. How so many things are connected; with racism, xenophobia, classism and white supremacy at the root of it all.

They then consider the way that the first year of the pandemic played out in 2020, drawing on both their lived experience and the studies and data that we now have. Thinking about who could shelter and who could not, and especially how people of colour experienced what has been described as the duel pandemic.

They then look at the article "COVID and Racism Cause Nurses of Color to Face “Dual Pandemic” by Kitta MacPherson: https://www.rutgers.edu/news/covid-and-racism-cause-nurses-color-face-dual-pandemic which sites the study "Effects of Race, Workplace Racism, and COVID Worry on the Emotional Well-Being of Hospital-Based Nurses: A Dual Pandemic” from Charlotte Thomas-Hawkins, Peijia Zha, Linda Flynn & Sakura Ando: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08964289.2021.1977605

They consider the pandemic happening in the context of the murder of George Floyd making it a very specific experience for Black people, and the anti-Asian racism that was exacerbated by the way the virus was being discussed making it a very specific experience for East-Asian people. And those racisms being seen in relation to communities of colour experiencing the highest rates of cases, deaths and hospitalisations, and nearly half of all health care workers with infections being among workers of colour, with nurses being the hardest hit.

Reflecting on anti-Asian racism they look at the article "Research: How Anti-Asian Racism Has Manifested at Work in the Pandemic” by Jennifer Kim and Zhida Shang: https://hbr.org/2023/03/research-how-anti-asian-racism-has-manifested-at-work-in-the-pandemic  

Then they reflect on workplaces currently within the ongoing pandemic: how this impacts disabled and at risk people, how employers and governments are failing to recognise this, how there are ways we could immediately make workplaces safer that are not being implemented. They consider the way the loses we have due to this are not just from death and disability, but also from workers and students quitting their workplaces and educational establishments, and the knowledge and experience we lose when this happens.

The episode ends by considering the way COVID has both harmed disabled people disproportionately and created more disabled people, and so going forward we need to include disabled people and attempt to mitigate dangers in our workplaces, and look after and support people if they do get sick.

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In today's episode Guilaine continues her reflections on relationships between Black people, continuing on from her thoughts in this episode: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1623760/15451884

She addresses a question she has been answering for a long time and that keeps coming back: Should people of colour only receive therapy from therapists/analysts/psychologists/mental health professionals of colour. 

She focuses on psychotherapy which is a very specific field of work, but asks a question that may be of interest or use to people of colour from all workplaces.

Three reasons why black therapists may wound their Black clients:

1. It is not enough to match people on their race alone
2. Just because someone has black skin doesn’t mean they have done the professional work when it comes to training around racial trauma. (And a lot of training is designed and delivered by white people so this is also a structural issue.)
3. Just because someone has black skin doesn’t mean they have done the personal work around their relationship to whiteness, their heritage, their ancestry, intergenerational wounds, colonialism, etc…

Two more things to consider:

1. There are other skills that therapists may have that are not specifically related to racial trauma that will help people experiencing racial trauma such as anxiety management and other core skills.
2. It’s understandable why Black people might prefer Black therapists, primarily for reasons of safety and trauma

Her conclusion is that everybody would benefit from having skills for working with people experiencing racial trauma, and all training institutions and providers should offer training in racial trauma that is thorough, and supports people to work with people who are experiencing racial trauma and race based injury regardless of their racialisation. And that often racism gets in the way of working therapeutically with people of colour.

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In today's episode Simone reflects on the relationships between racism, sexism (and other systems of oppression) and anti-fat bias. They begin by thinking about how the curves of people’s bodies are seen and understood through a very racist lens, and how pregnant people are seen as if their bodies belong to the public. Situating all of this within histories of White Supremacy and how these prejudices become bureaucratic elements of policy and are enforced systemically.

The rest of the episode is in conversation with the article "Weight based discrimination in the workplace is real. Here’s why talking about it matters.” by Jordan Ziese: https://www.ywboston.org/weight-based-discrimination-in-the-workplace-is-real-heres-why-talking-about-it-matters/

They go over the various work, movements and resources that have existed around combating anti-fat bias and some of the big issues within this such as the pernicious influence of the debunked measurement system BMI, and studies that show that fat people are paid less and discriminated against in other ways within the workplace.

The episode ends with recommendations for employers in terms of how they deal with anti-fat bias in the workplace.

Here are some resources mentioned:

Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia by Sabrina Strings https://nyupress.org/9781479886753/fearing-the-black-body/

Belly Of The Beast: The Politics Of Anti-Fatness As Anti-Blackness by Da'Shaun L. Harrison: https://www.pagesofhackney.co.uk/webshop/product/belly-of-the-beast-dashaun-harrison/

Maintenance Phase podcast: https://www.maintenancephase.com/

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