Radical with Gabriel Gatehouse

How do human choices, biases, and behaviours shape our economy? This week Amol speaks to Nobel Prize winning behavioural economist Professor Richard Thaler about his theories that dive into the patterns behind our decision-making and reveal why humans aren’t always as rational as we like to think.

From overconfidence and the lure of winning at any cost, to the hidden costs of risk-taking and the psychology of incentives, his research shows why individuals and markets sometimes make surprising — or even seemingly irrational — choices.

By unpacking the experiments described in his book The Winner’s Curse we get an insight into his work and he applies these behavioural insights to the issues facing the UK today. They discuss how to get young people off welfare and into work, government debt and why Richard believes the winter fuel allowance needs a rethink.

(00:04:10) Why he thinks traditional economic theory is flawed

(00:07:44) The pros and cons of behavioural economics

(00:17:40) The story behind The Winner’s Curse

(00:19:00) The Endowment Effect

(00:21:16) The Ultimatum Game

(00:23:28) Confirmation Bias and Overconfidence

(00:25:54) Mental Accounting

(00:29:42) Young people, welfare and work

(00:33:35) Tackling government debt

(00:38:32) The housing crisis

(00:40:06) The rise of AI and dangers of social media

(00:43:00) How he found out that he’d won the Nobel Prize for Economics

(00:45:26) Richard Thaler’s legacy

(00:47:43) Amol’s reflections

(00:51:20) Listener Messages

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Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today Podcast. It was made by Lewis Vickers with Anna Budd. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davis. Technical production was by Dave O’Neill. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.

How can Millennials, Gen Zs and Gen As thrive in a world where so much success depends on having access to the Bank of Mum and Dad?

Historian Dr Eliza Filby – an expert in generational identity – tells Amol that society needs to shift in three major ways to mitigate the “rupture” between young and old: in values, education and wealth.

Amol speaks with her about her book ‘Inheritocracy’ which calls for a radical redefining of meritocracy. They also discuss the shifts in parenthood and the evolving household roles of men and women, and ‘kidulthood’ - where young people move into adulthood in their early thirties instead of their late teens or early twenties.

(00:02:30) What is ‘Inheritocracy?’

(00:04:13) The values rupture – Baby Boomers are the exceptional generation

(00:10:07) The education rupture - the declining graduate premium

(00:16:00) The wealth rupture – unattainable ‘big ticket’ items

(00:28:00) Why is the social contract broken between generations?

(00:38:27) Shifts in assortative mating

(00:45:30) Is meritocracy a good idea in principle?

(00:54:17) How to reconfigure the tax system for a new generation

(00:57:07) Dr Eliza Filby's radical idea

(01:01:11) Amol’s reflections

(01:04:25) Listener messages

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Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today Podcast. It was made by Lewis Vickers with Anna Budd. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davis. Technical production was by Gareth Jones. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.

Artificial Intelligence is fundamentally changing the internet. But Matthew Prince, CEO of cybersecurity giant Cloudflare, thinks there is a way to ensure content creators and publishers earn enough to operate — even as their work feeds AI.

Cloudflare has put up digital firewalls around its clients’ sites, which blocks the bots that copy content to train large language models like OpenAI’s ChatGPT and Anthropic’s Claude. It is then up to its customers to choose whether to allow those so-called AI “crawlers” to access their sites.

Matthew spoke to Amol ahead of his appearance at the Thomson Reuters Foundation's Trust Conference, about how he hopes his decision will lead to a better deal for publishers as ‘search engines’ become ‘answer engines’ in the era of AI overviews and chatbots.

They also talk about the debate between artists like Sir Elton John and the UK government over plans to exempt technology firms from copyright laws.

The UK’s Competition and Markets Authority has designated Google with strategic market status in general search, which includes AI Overview and AI Mode. But Google says “many of the ideas for interventions that have been raised in this process would inhibit UK innovation and growth, potentially slowing product launches at a time of profound AI-based innovation.” The company also disputes Matthew’s claim that traffic to websites has fallen since the launch of AI Overview.

(00:03:52) How the internet is changing

(00:08:05) How AI is reducing web traffic

(00:11:34) Why it's important to compensate content creators

(00:18:50) AI is a platform change

(00:21:38) How AI could improve content creation

(00:26:29) The story behind Cloudflare

(00:31:42) Why he decided to block AI “crawler” bots

(00:42:33) AI and copyright laws in the UK

(00:45:19) Google’s market power

(00:51:37) Advice for becoming a tech entrepreneur

(00:54:01) Amol’s reflections

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Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today Podcast. It was made by Lewis Vickers with Anna Budd. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davis. Technical production was by Ricardo McCarthy and Dafydd Evans. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.

Whilst on a night out in the summer of 2011, Jacob Dunne made a split second decision to throw a punch that killed James Hodgkinson.

After being convicted of manslaughter, Jacob spent 14 months in prison during which time James’ parents contacted him to get answers about their son’s death. A dialogue began between them and when Jacob was released, Joan and David asked a question that he says saved him: “What are you going do with your life?”

That led to him doing his GCSE’s and getting a degree, and with James’ parents he now campaigns for criminal justice reform to improve the experience of victims and reduce reoffending.

Amol and Jacob go into extraordinary detail about his tough upbringing in Nottingham, what happened on that fateful night in 2011, and how – through his relationship with Joan and David - Jacob turned his life around.

They also discuss knife crime and why he thinks building stronger relationships is the solution to ending the cycle of violence in some of the most deprived areas of the UK.

His story is the subject of a West End play called Punch by James Graham and an award-winning BBC Radio 4 Series, which you can listen to here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l0jr

(00:04:00) What is restorative justice?

(00:14:00) Growing up in Nottingham

(00:26:44) The punch

(00:47:00) Time in prison

(00:56:20) Life after prison

(01:05:00) Meeting James' parents

(01:22:40) The future

(01:31:00) Amol’s reflections

(01:36:14) Listener messages

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Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today Podcast. It was made by Lewis Vickers with Anna Budd. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davis. Technical production was by James Piper. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.

As extreme weather forces people from their homes, the journalist and author Gaia Vince makes the positive case for immigration.

Projections show that billions of people will be displaced by 2050 due to the effects of global warming, a phenomenon she has reported on in her book ‘Nomad Century: How to Survive the Climate Upheaval’.

She argues that if governments plan for the mass movement of people they can reap the economic rewards of immigration despite public concern about the issue.

And with news that renewable energy overtook coal as the world's leading source of electricity in the first half of 2025, Gaia tells Amol why she thinks we’re approaching a “tipping point” which will see the end of our reliance on fossil fuels and green energy become the dominant source of power.

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Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today Podcast. It was made by Lewis Vickers with Anna Budd. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davis. Technical production was by James Piper. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.

Headteacher Katharine Birbalsingh thinks multiculturalism in Britain has led to an excessive focus on our differences rather than what unites us, but she believes schools like hers can change that by teaching traditional values and British culture.

Known for enforcing strict discipline at Michaela Community School in north London, Katharine explains why she promotes unity over diversity.

She is also critical of those in power who ignore what she sees as the concerns of “white British people”, which she says breeds resentment towards minorities.

And she tells Amol why she's opposed to the government’s school’s bill and what she makes of Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson.

In a statement the Department for Education said: "This government is delivering transformative education reforms so every child can achieve and thrive, regardless of their background or postcode because expecting a great education for all children should never be controversial.

"The Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill will be a seminal moment for the safety and success of our children, introducing common-sense measures backed by parents and teachers that ensure excellence and support - from highly qualified teachers and a cutting-edge curriculum, to reduced costs for families through breakfast clubs and school uniforms.”

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Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today Podcast. It was made by Lewis Vickers with Anna Budd. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davies. Technical production was by James Piper. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.

Physicist Carlo Rovelli thinks we need natural intelligence and not artificial intelligence in an age of confrontation.

Ten years ago he wrote a short book called Seven Brief Lessons on Physics, which became an international bestseller and catapulted him to scientific stardom.

A decade on he thinks the world is at a dangerous moment as the West’s dominance declines and global powers prioritise competition over collaboration.

One area he's most concerned about is AI, which he thinks is overhyped but needs to be controlled nonetheless.

He also explains some mind-bending ideas about time, space and why he thinks the Big Bang was actually a Big Bounce.

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Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today Podcast. It was made by Lewis Vickers with Grace Reeve. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davies. Technical production was by Phil Bull. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.

Edward Enninful thinks fashion risks going backwards on diversity, which is why he’s launched a new media business, EE72, to promote inclusion in an anti-woke era.

The former editor of British Vogue talks to Amol about why the industry needs to appeal to all generations – from getting Gen Z on side by tackling fast fashion and affordability, to highlighting the full spectrum of beauty by focussing on ‘women of a certain age’ in the first issue of his quarterly magazine.

Amol asks him about the recent Sydney Sweeney jeans advert after the US fashion retailer American Eagle ran ads with her alongside the words: "Sydney Sweeney has great jeans".

Edward also explains why he left British Vogue and talks about his relationship with his former boss, Anna Wintour.

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Episodes of Radical with Amol Rajan are released every Thursday and you can also watch them on BBC iPlayer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m002f1d0/radical-with-amol-rajan

Amol Rajan is a presenter of the Today programme on BBC Radio 4. He is also the host of University Challenge on BBC One. Before that, Amol was media editor at the BBC and editor at The Independent.

Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today Podcast. It was made by Lewis Vickers with Izzy Rowley and Grace Reeve. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davies and Sophie Millward. Technical production was by Mike Regaard. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.

There are some new (and old) faces on the left of British politics hoping to challenge Keir Starmer’s struggling Labour government, but could a party to the left of Labour ever win power?

His predecessor Jeremy Corbyn has setup a new party with another former Labour MP, Zarah Sultana, who has declared that “Labour is dead”.

And the Green Party of England and Wales has elected eco-populist Zack Polanski, who is urging left-leaning voters to back him rather than waiting around for Corbyn’s party to get off the ground.

The journalist and political commentator Ash Sarkar has written a book called ‘Minority Rule’, which argues that the Left has become bogged down in identity politics and needs to stop fighting the culture wars so it can focus on building a broad coalition of support.

A contributing editor at left-wing media organisation Novara Media, Ash discusses the radical potential for a Marxist approach to contemporary British politics and why she thinks Karl Marx would’ve loved Twitter.

She also talks to Amol about why she can’t think of a ‘dumber group of people’ than Keir Starmer’s cabinet and what lies behind the recent success of Nigel Farage's Reform UK.

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Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today Podcast. It was made by Lewis Vickers with Grace Reeve and Izzy Rowley. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davis. Technical production was by Mike Regaard and Dafydd Evans. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.

Artificial intelligence is arguably the single biggest force shaping our world today.

Dario Amodei, CEO and co-founder of Anthropic which created AI chatbot Claude, says that this technology has the potential to revolutionise our lives but could also cause us significant harm if we don’t regulate it properly.

Amol and Dario discuss how quickly large language models (LLMs) like Claude and OpenAI’s ChatGPT are developing, the threat they could pose to white-collar jobs and how his company’s chatbot helped his sister through a difficult pregnancy.

They also talk about how AI could be used to carry out cyberattacks and why there is a “fundamental difficulty of control” at the centre of these models.

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Radical with Amol Rajan is a Today podcast. If you enjoy this (and you've read this far so hopefully you do), then we think you’ll also like another podcast from Today. It’s called Political Thinking with Nick Robinson and you can listen to Nick’s interviews here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p04z203l

This episode of Radical with Amol Rajan was made by Lewis Vickers with Izzy Rowley. Digital production was by Gabriel Purcell-Davis. Technical production was by Rohan Madison. The editor is Sam Bonham. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.