Today, we converse with two firehoses of the human imagination: Mark Diaz Truman and Jay Dragon!

Some people play games. Some people publish games. And then there are the people who change how the whole industry works. Mark Diaz Truman is one of the architects of the modern tabletop renaissance; designer, publisher, organizer, and strategic mastermind behind Magpie Games, one of the forces that helped bring Powered by the Apocalypse roaring into the mainstream. From Masks to Avatar Legends, Mark doesn't just build games. He builds movements, communities, and launchpads for new voices. We are living in a future Mark helped to chart.

Jay Dragon is a creative force. I am over the moon to have her back on because our last conversation was one of my favorites. Jay's the mind behind Wanderhome, and Yazeba's Bed & Breakfast, games that blend gentle heartbreak with radical imagination. She is currently the head of design at Steve Jackson Games. Please welcome the pastoral prophet of indie RPGs, Jay Dragon!

You can find more of Mark's work here: https://magpiegames.com/

And more of Jay Dragon's work here: https://warehouse23.com/collections/possum-creek

Happy Thanksgiving Americans! Here's a seminar from Gamehole Con 2025 about why YOU should be writing geeky nonfiction.

My favorite RPG book of the year is a book of spaceship p*rn designed by two poets!

INFINITY OF SHIPS is random tables for spaceship creation along with stunning artwork and essays that are as fun as they are engaging. The book was brought to us by Adam Good & Jamie Perez, and the pair have another book Kickstarting right now: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/72stations/100-strangers-misfits-weirdos-and-outcasts-for-sci-fi-rpgs

The show also features Justin Sirois, publisher at Severed Books and author of Sickest Witch, a D20 Folk Horror RPG which can be found here: https://www.severedbooks.com/

On Patreon, I posted my Gamehole Con seminar where I went over 18 years of leaked D&D sales data. You can enjoy it posthaste if you subscribe to my Patreon! It's only $3 a month! Click here!

This is an RPG historian you have to hear from.

Shannon Appelcline. He's the mind behind Designers & Dragons, which chronicles our hobby's wild past, from basement print runs to global pop culture phenomenon. Shannon has done the research, interviewed the legends, and connected the dots between decades of dice-rolling history. So grab your character sheet, because today, we're diving deep into how our favorite games became the worlds we live in.

Back Shannon's current project, Dungeons & Dragons: Origins here!

On Patreon, I posted my Gamehole Con seminar where I went over 18 years of leaked D&D sales data. You can enjoy it posthaste if you subscribe to my Patreon! It's only $3 a month! Click here!

What do Cormac McCarthy, Charles Dickens, & Scheherazade say to each other on the podcast? Today, we find out! First up, we have Meguey Baker: game designer, textile historian, and one of the most revolutionary voices in the history of tabletop gaming. You might know her from 1001 Nights, Psi-Run, or her work on Apocalypse World, a game that cracked open an entire design movement. Meguey's games invite players to explore power, intimacy, and identity with uncommon grace, they whisper truths in a world that's used to shouting. She's proof that you don't need a sword to change the game. Sometimes, all you need is a question and a well-set stage.

Next up is the man lucky enough to be married to Meguey, Vincent Baker, the other half of the mad team that gifted fandom Apocalypse World, whether we would have it or no. A mad scientist of narrative mechanics, Vincent looked at D&D's six stats and thought, "Cute, but what if we had Hot and Cool instead?"

Vincent is the co-creator of Apocalypse World, maker of The Barbarian's Bloody Quest, and a host of games that re-wired how designers think about fiction, failure, and fun.

The fingerprints of the Bakers are everywhere, from Monsterhearts to Blades in the Dark. Their design DNA has gone viral in the best possible way.

Last but by no means least, we have John Harper, the noir poet of the tabletop, the guy who made crime, chaos, and consequence sing in Blades in the Dark. John's work fuses cinematic cool with mechanical precision. He builds worlds where danger is stylish, failure fascinating, and every die roll feels like a drumbeat.

If tabletop games had a film noir auteur, it'd be this guy.

Buy one of John's many fine games here.

Be notified about the Apocalypse World: Burned Over Kickstarter by clicking here.

A quick note. We've had a delay on publishing my Gamehole Con seminar. It should be up in 48 hours, but if you were looking for a link here, I wanted you to know about it.

-Ben

Shamelessly, 30 minutes into this interview with Cam Banks & Fred Hicks, I share leaked D&D sales data.

He's the Kiwi conjurer who helped create the Cortex System, which has been used on everything from Firefly to Marvel. He's made the rules that make the stories sing, and he's living proof that spreadsheets and sorcery can coexist. Please welcome the unflappable, unstoppable Cam Banks!

He's the co-founder of Evil Hat, one of the wizards who bottled lightning and called it Fate. He turned indie passion into publishing power and proved you can run a company on creativity and caffeine. When he's not redefining what "small press" can mean, he's out there building the future one rulebook at a time. Give it up for the hat-tipping hero himself, Fred Hicks!

Support Cam Banks's patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/cw/cambanks

Support Evil Hat's current crowdfunding campaign here: https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/evil-hat/designers-dragons-origins

Next week, I'm planning on posting my seminar from Gamehole Con, where I go over 18 years of D&D sales data. But I'm only posting it on my Patreon! Click here to join so you won't miss it!

https://www.patreon.com/u121641556?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink

This conversation is absolutely brilliant.

I talk to a lot of game designers, but this episode is easily a favorite.

Today, we discuss with two engines of creativity: Jay Dragon of Wanderhome & Watt of Cloud Empress!

Watt is a designer, artist, and architect of the beautifully bizarre. Watt's games feel like dreams with teeth, lush, lyrical, and a little dangerous. Their work digs into ecology, and the wild weirdness. I found their Mothership mutation CLOUD EMPRESS at Gen Con and fell into it head first.

Next, welcome to the show the one, the only Jay Dragon, game designer, storyteller, and the pastoral prophet of indie RPGs. Jay's the mind behind Wanderhome, and Yazeba's Bed & Breakfast, games that blend gentle heartbreak with radical imagination. She's helped reshape the way we play, proving that the quietest games can hit the hardest. Jay Dragon is a cozy engine of chaos. Jay's manifesto on expressionistic game design is here.

Do you want more engaging conversations like this? There is subscriber-only content on our Patreon. Wanna hear Trail of Cthulhu designer Ken Hite speak to Call of Cthulhu designer Sandy Peterson? It's up there! Want to see 2nd ed D&D designer Zeb Cook interviewed in Hugh Hefner's old suite? It's up there! And we have a Discord! AND IT ONLY COSTS $3 A MONTH! Click here to join!

Why borg?

Today on the show, we're joined by Zac Goins, RPG designer, Kickstarter consultant, and all-around tabletop creative. Zac has worked with Marvel, Wizards of the Coast, Modiphius, and more, and currently serves as Director of Marketing for Limithron. He's designed for systems like Old School Essentials, Mörk Borg, Shadowdark, and beyond.

Also today, we are joined by Erica Lowe-Tarpley, Owner of Broken Brain Games and Lead Designer on RagnaBorg, which is kickstarting right now, Chambers of Agony, as well as 3rd party content for Shadowdark and DCC.

Back Ragnaborg here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ragnaborg/ragnaborg

Find more of Zac Goins work here: https://www.zacgoins.com/

Do you want more engaging conversations like this? There is subscriber-only content on our Patreon. Wanna hear Trail of Cthulhu designer Ken Hite speak to Call of Cthulhu designer Sandy Peterson? It's up there! Want to see 2nd ed D&D designer Zeb Cook interviewed in Hugh Hefner's old suite? It's up there! And we have a Discord! AND IT ONLY COSTS $3 A MONTH! Click here to join!

Today, we've got a four-way! Listen and marinate in the brilliance of Justin Alexander, Panayiotis Lines, & Aled Lawlor! Aled Lawlor and Panayiotis Lines are the creative duo behind Leyline Press. In just a few short years, Leyline has carved out a reputation for distinctive, atmospheric RPGs that blend striking visual design with elegant, playable mechanics. I purchased SALVAGE UNION at Gen Con, and it has beautiful art, and delightfully mashes up mecha combat, exploration, and socialism. Aled and Panayiotis are reshaping what small-press tabletop games can look and feel like.

And then we're thrilled to welcome a name familiar to just about every GM who's ever looked for deeper insight into the craft, a man whose influence on the culture of TTRPGs is hard to overstate, the human responsible for the blog, THE ALEXANDRIAN, Justin Alexander. His essays, reviews, and innovative techniques, such as like the "Three Clue Rule," have become touchstones in modern RPG discourse. His book, SO YOU WANT TO BE A GAME MASTER, is absolutely outstanding and has been read by I think four different tweens in my classroom.

You can find more delightful work by Panny & Aled here!

Learn how to be a gamemaster from one of the best, Justin Alexander, here!

Do you want more engaging conversations like this? There is subscriber-only content on our Patreon. Wanna hear Trail of Cthulhu designer Ken Hite speak to Call of Cthulhu designer Sandy Peterson? It's up there! Want to see 2nd ed D&D designer Zeb Cook interviewed in Hugh Hefner's old suite? It's up there! And we have a Discord! AND IT ONLY COSTS $3 A MONTH! Click here to join!

Today, I am going to talk turkey with fellow historian and bestselling author, Michael Witwer. His books, such as Empire of Imagination, the acclaimed biography of Gary Gygax, and the lavish Dungeons & Dragons: Art & Arcana, have helped bring the hidden history of role-playing games into the mainstream. His work combines deep research with a storyteller's flair, making the origins of our hobby vivid, human, and dramatic. Today he's here to talk about his brand-new book, Dungeons & Dragons: The Book of Dragons! It is the definitive illustrated guide to dragons; the most iconic creatures in the D&D universe, the ultimate draconic compendium.

To pick up one of Michael's many fine volumes, click here!

Do you want more engaging conversations like this? There is subscriber-only content on our Patreon. Wanna hear Trail of Cthulhu designer Ken Hite speak to Call of Cthulhu designer Sandy Peterson? It's up there! Want to see 2nd ed D&D designer Zeb Cook interviewed in Hugh Hefner's old suite? It's up there! And we have a Discord! AND IT ONLY COSTS $3 A MONTH! Click here to join!