In this episode, Julien Devaureix speaks with Nora Bateson, filmmaker, writer, and president of theInternational Bateson Institute. Together they explore how to navigate today’s complex world through systems thinking, relational approaches, and Nora’s concept of warm data. Drawing from her book Combining, Nora shares why solutions can’t be isolated, how identity and intergenerational living shape our future, and why cultivating an ecology of communication is key to creating authentic hope and thriving life.

Episode timestamps

00:00 Introduction & Nora’s background; perceiving interdependencies in living systems

04:14 The “meadow” metaphor and the relational nature of complexity

16:59 Problems of reductionism in education and society

34:25 Excerpts from Combining: the idea of combining vs. combined

43:26 Rethinking problems and solutions; cultivating an ecology of communication

54:02 Double binds, transcontextual issues, and aiming for possibility & vitality

01:00:50 Warm data and the lost art of intergenerational living

01:06::06 False hope vs. real hope; culture and unexpected change

01:10:05 The role of art, weirdness, and creativity in shaping the future

01:15:23 Closing poem Mama Now: reflections on parenting, integrity, and uncertainty

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In this episode, Julien speaks with Steffen Müller, head of Salesforce's Sustainability & Transformation Advisory team, about how companies can align technology, data, and AI with their ecological goals. From carbon accounting to AI’s environmental impact, they explore how sustainability is becoming a core business strategy—not just a compliance issue.

Episode timestamps
00:00 Introduction – The shifting context for business and Stefan Müller’s journey

02:50 Why some companies are backpedaling on sustainability—and why others are not

05:30 Corporate ecological transition: Where are we really?

07:30 Finance and nature: Understanding the $7 trillion gap

09:20 Geopolitical contrasts: US, EU, and China in the sustainability race

12:30 Beyond carbon: Measuring waste, water, and biodiversity impact

15:00 Tackling Scope 3: From spend-based data to real supplier metrics

18:15 Ensuring data integrity: Verification, auditability, and trust

22:00 AI’s footprint: The hidden environmental cost of artificial intelligence

27:30 Designing sustainable AI: Small models, smart principles, and market influence

32:00 AI for good: Empowering farmers, NGOs, and regenerative practices

34:20 The rise of the “sustainability technologist” and evolving team structures

36:40 From dashboards to decisions: Embedding sustainability in business systems

40:10 Case study: Manufacturing, CRM integration, and incentivizing low-impact choices

44:30 Regenerative business: Tech as a tool—if used with intent

47:50 The reboot button: Rethinking the concept of “we”

51:30 Closing thoughts and a call for integrity-driven transformation

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In this episode, Julien speaks with Alexandra Palt, recently appointed President of WWF France. Alexandra shares her unique journey from human rights lawyer to Chief Sustainability Officer at L'Oreal, where she drove ambitious transformation, to leading France's largest environmental NGO. The conversation explores the challenges of driving sustainability from within large corporations, the structural hurdles faced when profit and sustainability collide, insights from her experience navigating the "sustainability hype" and backlash, and her research on ethical leadership and the virtues necessary for leaders today. Alexandra also discusses the role of NGOs like WWF, the importance of local action and cooperation, and identifies the awareness of sustainable value chains as an underrated solution for businesses. This episode offers a profound look at navigating complex environmental and social challenges and redefining impact.

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"Reboot Business" podcast host Julian Devaureix interviews Otto Scharmer, a senior lecturer at MIT and creator of Theory U, about navigating the current radical transformation of the business world due to social, energy, and environmental demands. Scharmer discusses systems thinking as a way to understand interconnected global crises like ecological damage, socioeconomic inequality, and mental health issues, emphasizing that these are symptoms of deeper disconnects. He introduces Theory U as a framework and set of tools for achieving organizational and societal change by shifting consciousness and enabling systems to see and sense themselves more fully. The conversation highlights the power of attention as crucial for individuals and leaders to intentionally shape the future and move from reactive patterns to co-creative action, advocating for personal awareness practices, deep listening in small groups, and aligning work with purpose to foster widespread change starting at the individual level.

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In this episode, Julien is sitting down with Paul Hawken—visionary thinker, entrepreneur, author and founder of Project Drawdown. A leading, pioneering voice in the regeneration movement, Paul challenges the way we approach climate, biodiversity, and corporate responsibility. Not only doing less harm is not enough—businesses must actively do good. But to truly transform, we need more than new solutions; we need a fundamental, ontological shift in how we see the world and our role within it. His latest book, Carbon: The Book of Life, reminds us that all life-supporting systems are deeply interconnected.

Join us for a thought-provoking conversation on rethinking business, reimagining our relationship with the planet, and moving beyond sustainability toward true regeneration.

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In a world where perpetual economic growth is the default objective, what happens when we reach the limits of our planet’s capacity? Gaya Herrington, econometrician and sustainability researcher, has dedicated her research to answering this question. Her update to the famous Limits to Growth study—originally published by MIT in 1972—went viral for its stark conclusion: we are on track for a steep economic and social decline unless we radically rethink our approach.

In this episode, Gaya discusses the transition from a growth-centric to a well-being economy, one that prioritizes human welfare and sustainability over GDP. She explains why degrowth is not about collapse, but about rebalancing our economy within planetary boundaries. She also delves into the corporate challenges of navigating this shift, the limitations of current economic metrics, and the role of resilience over efficiency in business strategy.

As someone who operates within the corporate sector while challenging its mainstream economic assumptions, Gaya offers a unique perspective. This is a conversation about rethinking our economic future—before it's too late.

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This episode features a thought-provoking conversation with Dennis Meadows, co-author of the seminal 1972 report Limits to Growth.

Meadows explores the consequences of humanity’s pursuit of infinite growth in a finite world and the urgent need to shift our focus from sustainability to resilience.

The discussion dives into the challenges of systemic change, including the societal and political resistance to acknowledging physical and planetary boundaries. Drawing from decades of research and observation, Meadows shares insights on adapting to a post-growth economy, fostering resilience at individual and community levels, and rethinking long-term goals in the face of ecological and societal constraints.

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This episode features an interview of Lubomila Jordanova, a sustainability expert, discussing the complexities of corporate decarbonisation. 

Lubomila Jordanova details her work with Plan A, a SaaS platform for carbon management, and the Green Tech Alliance, a community supporting green entrepreneurs. The conversation explores obstacles to corporate sustainability, including confusing reporting standards, short-term versus long-term pressures, and the need for a unified approach to reporting and action. Finally, Jordanova underscores the crucial role of data and technology in accelerating the transition, advocating for a holistic approach that prioritises both economic and environmental sustainability.

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In this special episode of Reboot Business, we revisit a powerful conversation with Paul Watson, the legendary captain and founder of Sea Shepherd. Watson, currently imprisoned for his activism, discusses his biocentric worldview, the importance of ocean conservation, and the role of aggressive nonviolence in environmental activism. This episode is a reminder that the business world can only thrive if the living world does.

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Au fil des podcasts Reboot se dessine une ligne convergente vers l’urgence impérieuse de changer le système dans sa globalité.

C’est particulièrement vrai pour le fonctionnement de la sphère de la finance qui dicte les règles du jeu d’un marché capitaliste et libéral qui impacte directement sur la vie des citoyens de l’ensemble de la planète alors qu’elle est complètement déconnectée de l’économie réelle.

Face à cette tâche titanesque, Eva Sadoun, 32 ans, s’attelle à rendre visibles et compréhensibles les mécanismes qui régissent le milieu opaque et élitiste de la finance qu’elle qualifie de prédateur.

Elle propose d’opérer des modifications stratégiques sur ces mécanismes comme première étape à l’invention d’un nouveau modèle économique vertueux. Elle présente une vision de l’économie inspirée en partie de l’écoféminisme comme une puissance de transition écologique et sociale forte à l’image du leadership actuel en Nouvelle-Zélande ou en Finlande.

Au cœur de cette économie alternative, une finance citoyenne et l’entreprise, capable de créer un véritable impact social et environnemental quand les cadres politiques et légaux le permettent.

Eva est entrepreneuse, économiste et licenciée en philosophie. Convaincue de la nécessité de faire glisser la pensée à l’action pour provoquer le changement, elle a fondé deux entreprises dont Lita.co, une plateforme d’investissement responsable, et l’application Rift qui permet de suivre l’impact sociétal et environnemental d’une épargne citoyenne.

Eva est également activiste et représentante du Mouvement Impact France qu’elle présente comme une alternative au MEDEF.

Elle est l’auteure du livre « Une Économie à nous » paru en février 2022 aux Éditions Acte Sud par lequel elle souhaite donner aux citoyens « des clés de compréhension de notre économie en identifiant les verrous à une économie plus juste et durable ».

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