Recruiter Stories

Episode 40, featuring Ted McKenna; interview by Jordan Abshire.

Ted McKenna, best-selling co-author of The JOLT Effect and The Activator Advantage, returns to Recruiter Stories following his keynote at the NALSC Symposium in Austin. Ted expands on his research into successful rainmakers, emphasizing that adopting Activator behaviors is less about personality and more about developing intentional business development habits.

He discusses how recruiters and law firms can identify and attract attorneys with Activator tendencies, including their approaches to cultivating networks, developing new business, and building relationships across client organizations. He also explores how firms can foster these behaviors through collaboration, compensation structures, and institutional support.

Finally, Ted revisits The JOLT Effect, explaining why the fear of making a mistake can prevent candidates from pursuing otherwise attractive opportunities. He offers guidance on overcoming indecision while maintaining credibility, encouraging recruiters to act as trusted advisors who provide transparent recommendations and help candidates understand the trade-offs associated with consequential career decisions.

Ted McKenna, best-selling co-author of The JOLT Effect and The Activator Advantage, previews his upcoming NALSC keynote on what high-performing rainmakers do differently and how professionals can overcome client indecision. Drawing on research across law firms, search firms, and other professional services organizations, Ted discusses the unique challenges facing "doer-sellers"—professionals who must simultaneously deliver expertise and develop new business.

He explores several approaches to business development, including the trusted-advisor "Confidant," the expertise-driven "Expert," and the "Activator," which his research identifies as the most successful profile. Importantly, these profiles reflect behaviors rather than fixed personality types, meaning professionals can learn and adopt more effective rainmaking habits.

Finally, Ted discusses The JOLT Effect and the psychology behind client and candidate indecision, including the "fear of messing up" that can cause people to hesitate even when the facts support moving forward. He previews practical strategies for identifying, preventing, and overcoming that hesitation—an issue particularly relevant to recruiters navigating consequential hiring and career decisions.

Niraj Chhabra, a certified financial planner and founder of Sidebar Advisors, previews his upcoming NALSC Symposium breakout session, "What Candidates Aren't Saying: Financial Doubts That Can Kill Deals." Drawing on his work advising attorneys, Niraj explains why candidates often evaluate opportunities through a much broader financial lens than compensation alone.

He discusses how base versus variable compensation, taxes, deferred compensation, capital contributions, family obligations, and financial security can influence a candidate's willingness to make a move—even when an offer appears compelling on its face.

Niraj's Symposium session will give recruiters a look "behind the curtain" at the conversations candidates are having with trusted advisors and spouses—and how understanding those conversations can help recruiters navigate offers more effectively.

NALSC Law Firm Advisory Committee Chair Shannon Davis and Chair-Elect Jessica Grayson discuss how law firms can build stronger lateral recruiting programs by aligning recruiting, integration, business development, and firm branding. The conversation explores what distinguishes top external recruiters, highlighting the importance of trust, responsiveness, market intelligence, and genuine partnership. They then examine trends shaping the lateral market, including more sophisticated candidates, increased firm consolidation, and AI. Lastly, they discuss NALSC's Law Firm Advisory Committee, explaining how it fosters collaboration between in-house recruiters and search firms while creating new opportunities for education, dialogue, and stronger partnerships across the legal recruiting community.

NALSC Podcast Recruiter Stories Episode 36: Jae Um; interview by Jordan Abshire

Jae Um, Chief Growth Officer and Head of Knowledge at Lumio, shares her perspective on the future of the legal industry, drawing on her experience in law firm strategy, pricing, innovation, and business development. She argues that today's legal market is becoming increasingly fragmented and dynamic, with firms differentiating themselves through more focused growth strategies rather than simply adding lawyers, offices, and practices.

Jae discusses how the rise of lateral hiring, evolving partnership expectations, and rapid advances in AI are reshaping both law firm competition and lawyer careers. She emphasizes that the most successful lawyers will combine self-awareness, collaboration, and curiosity, recognizing that modern legal practice is increasingly a team sport requiring adaptability and continuous learning.

We also explore how recruiters can better evaluate both candidates and firms, focusing on alignment, culture, and long-term compatibility.

Finally, Jae offers a measured view of AI's impact on the profession, suggesting that while technology will change how legal services are delivered, the relationship-driven nature of high-end legal practice—and the need to develop future generations of lawyers—will remain essential.

Episode 35: Tiffany Ambrose; interview by Jordan Abshire. Tiffany Ambrose, Principal at Principal Recruiting and a new NALSC board member, reflects on her transition from practicing family law into legal recruiting, explaining how her desire to help people through difficult transitions naturally carried over into the recruiting profession.

She discusses how recruiting provided both a rewarding career path and greater flexibility as a mother of three, while also allowing her to build deeper professional relationships and grow her personal brand through initiatives like her "Recruiter Real Talk" webinar series.

Tiffany also shares lessons learned from the emotional highs and lows of recruiting, emphasizing the importance of resilience, networking, and putting yourself outside your comfort zone to build meaningful connections and long-term success.

Finally, she reflects on her decision to join the NALSC board, highlighting the organization's strong sense of community, ethics, and collaboration, while encouraging newer recruiters to get involved, share ideas, and actively contribute to the profession.

Episode 34: Victoria Gamble, new NALSC Board Member; interview by Jordan Abshire.

Victoria Gamble, founder of Gamble Partner Search and a new NALSC board member, reflects on her path into legal recruiting and the lessons that shape her partner-level work. Drawing on her experience as a Division I rower at Penn, she emphasizes alignment, consistency, and team-first thinking, noting that successful placements require both sides to move in sync.

She discusses her transition from in-house recruiting to launching her own firm, highlighting the importance of self-awareness when considering entrepreneurship and the added demands of building and managing a business.

Victoria also underscores that partner recruiting is long-cycle, relationship-driven, and inherently complex, requiring persistence, trust, and problem-solving to navigate challenges and close deals.

Finally, she reflects on the value of NALSC, emphasizing community, collaboration, and relationship-building as essential advantages in an otherwise solitary profession.

Episode 33, featuring David Gialanella; interview by Jordan Abshire. David, Editor-in-Chief of The American Lawyer, breaks down ALM's latest lateral report, explaining that today's market reflects an intensification—not a fundamental shift—of longstanding BigLaw dynamics, driven by client demand for scale and full-service platforms.

He discusses the rise of a "post-loyalty" mindset, where multiple lateral moves are normalized and candidates increasingly prioritize platform strength over pure compensation to maximize book-building potential.

We also explore how lateral movement is self-reinforcing, with market "inertia" fueled by peer awareness and firm competition—particularly among Am Law 50 firms, whose scale and capital advantages continue to drive consolidation.

Finally, David frames lateral hiring as a capital allocation decision, with firms navigating compensation flexibility, liquidity, and integration risk—all against the backdrop of emerging AI-driven changes that may reshape the market in the years ahead.

Episode 32, featuring Stephanie Chen Banjo; interview by Jordan Abshire. Stephanie previews her upcoming NALSC Conference breakout session, Navigating Candidate Roadblocks, where she will explore the hidden psychological and practical factors that influence lawyers' career-move decisions. Drawing from her work as an executive and career coach in professional services, Stephanie explains how many attorneys follow a "conveyor belt" career progression until they reach a point where the path forward becomes less defined, forcing them to reconsider what success truly means. She discusses the role confidence plays at every stage of a legal career, the importance of helping candidates articulate what they are optimizing for, and how recruiters can listen more deeply to distinguish between curiosity, hesitation, and genuine readiness for change. We look forward to hearing from Stephanie in New Orleans, where she will offer practical coaching techniques recruiters can use to identify motivation, risk tolerance, and decision ownership, helping them determine when to advance, nurture, or pause candidate conversations

Episode 31, featuring Chris De Santis; interview by Jordan Abshire. Chris previews his upcoming NALSC Conference session, Closing the Generational Communication Gap. Chris explains how generational friction is less about personality and more about deeply embedded differences in upbringing, authority, communication, and expectations, with conflict most often arising between adjacent generations rather than distant ones. He discusses themes from his book, Why I Find You Irritating, including the concept of "lopsidedness"—the idea that everyone is exceptional at something but not everything—and why effective teams and leaders must intentionally leverage complementary strengths. The episode also explores how AI and shifting norms are changing recruiting, elevating the recruiter's role as a trusted advisor and validator in an increasingly skeptical, technology-mediated environment.