Drew and Tim take a hard and honest look at how success is defined in today’s church culture. In a world obsessed with numbers—attendance, giving, buildings, and platforms—this episode challenges listeners to ask whether we’ve borrowed the wrong scorecard. While metrics can be helpful tools, they were never meant to replace the deeper work of God in transformed lives.

This conversation contrasts ministry and business, acknowledging that while both may track growth, only one is called to pursue obedience over outcomes. Drew and Tim emphasize that behind every number is a name, a story, and a soul—and that heaven celebrates faithfulness long before it celebrates growth. Churches can be full and still spiritually empty, active yet unchanged, orthodox but lifeless.

At the heart of the episode is a simple but piercing truth: success in ministry is obedience to God’s calling. Sometimes obedience leads to growth. Sometimes it leads to obscurity. Either way, Jesus—not results—is the goal. Through personal stories, biblical examples, and real-life ministry moments, this episode invites leaders and believers alike to redefine success, resist comparison, and pursue faithfulness over fame. If you’ve ever wondered whether what you’re doing “counts,” this conversation will realign your heart back to what matters most—keeping your eyes on Jesus.

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Get the Eyes on Jesus 90 Day Discernment Devotional

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For more information on Drew Barker: Follow Drew on ⁠Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/pastordrewbarker⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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For more information on Tim Ferrara: ⁠ ⁠ Get all his links in one place- to his social media, all 3 of his books, and more ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/discerning_dad⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠