Synopsis:  Is Authoritarianism Here?: Gessen and Stanley discuss the shift in America's self-understanding, from democratic ideals to a self-identity based on loving the US for its past greatness, and warn that this is not a democratic project, but rather a fascist one, similar to what Putin is doing in Russia.

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Description: What will it take to reject fascism, before it’s too late? Masha Gessen and Jason Stanley are two leading experts on autocracy, and they’re sounding the alarm. They and their families have escaped totalitarian regimes and oppressive governments; today Gessen and Stanley are pulling back the curtain on the attacks against DEI, trans bodies, civil rights, higher education and more. Is authoritarianism here? Masha Gessen is an acclaimed Russian-American journalist, a Polk Award winning opinion writer for the New York Times and the author of "Surviving Autocracy" and “The Future is History: How Totalitarianism Reclaimed Russia.” Forced to leave Russia twice, in 2024, a Moscow court convicted them, in absentia to eight years in prison for their reporting on the war in Ukraine. Jason Stanley is a best-selling author and professor whose books include “Erasing History” and "How Fascism Works". He recently left his teaching position at Yale University to relocate to Canada with his family; noting that he is a child of Jewish refugees who fled Nazi Germany. In this historic conversation — the first interview between Gessen and Stanley — the two explore how to be bold in our movements and envision a multi-ethnic democracy. Plus, a commentary from Laura.

“Trump has proposed a revived empire, a return to an imaginary past. The Democrats have proposed the way things are now, which are deeply unsatisfying and horribly anxiety provoking for a very large number of people. So we need a vision of a future that is more appealing than the imaginary past.” - Masha Gessen

“What I see now is this regime shifting the self understanding of America, from having these democratic ideals . . . God knows they've been imperfect, to a self identity as loving the United States because we've had these great men in our past, and we've conquered the West, and we can punch you in the nose. And that's not a democratic project. That's like what Putin is doing in Russia.” - Jason Stanley

• Masha Gessen: Opinion Columnist, The New York Times; Author, Surviving Autocracy; Distinguished Professor, Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism, CUNY

• Jason Stanley: Author, Erasing History & How Fascism Works; Professor, Munk School of Global Affairs, University of Toronto

Music Credit: “America” by Sylvan Paul, courtesy of Wolf+Lamb Records.  "Steppin" by Podington Bear. And original sound production and design by Jeannie Hopper.

RESOURCES:

Watch the special report released on YouTube; PBS World Channel August 17th, and on over 300 public stations across the country (check your listings, or search here via zipcode). Listen: Episode airing on community radio (check here to see if your station airs the show) & available as a podcast.  The full uncut conversation is available as a podcast in this podcast feed.

RESOURCES:

Watch the broadcast episode cut for time at our YouTube channel and airing on PBS stations across the country 

Full Episode Notes are located HERE.

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Related Articles and Resources:

• This Is What a Digital Coup Looks Like, by Carole Callwalladr, Ted Talk, April 9, 2025 WATCH

• The Fascism Expert at Yale Who’s Fleeing America, by Keziah Weir, March 31, 2025, Vanity Fair

• The Shape of Power in American Art, a new exhibition explores how the history of race in the United States is entwined with the history of American sculpture, November 8, 2024, Exhibit at the Smithsonian American Art Museum

• Celebrate Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. at the Riverside Church in the City of New York, Various , Turning 15 on the Road to Freedom

•  American journalist Masha Gessen convicted in absentia by Russia for criticizing its military, by Anna Chernova, Lauren Kent and Rob Picket, July 16, 2024, CNN

•. Tyrants Use Racism and Patriarchy to Split Civil Society Apart and Dismantle Democracy, Excerpt of speech by Jason Stanley, Jacob Urowsky professor of philosophy at Yale University, recorded & produced by Melinda Tuhus, April 16, 2025, Between the Lines

•  The Hidden Motive Behind Trump’s Attacks on Trans People, by M. Gessen, March 17, 2025, The New York Times

•  The 10 tactics of fascism by Jason Stanley, 2022, Big Think - Watch

•  Welcome to Trump’s Mafia State: “Nice university you got there. Shame if something happened to it.” By M. Gessen, Produce by Vishakha Darbha, April 21, 2025, The New York Times

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ACCESSIBILITY - The broadcast edition of this episode is available with closed captioned by clicking here for our YouTube Channel