Relational Practice: a social work podcast

Join co-hosts Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey for a deep dive into one of the most complex emotions in clinical practice: Shame.

Why do we avoid talking about shame when it impacts so much of our work? In this episode, Jodie and Rose unpack the critical differences between “I am bad” (shame) and “I did something bad” (guilt), alongside the distinct nuances of embarrassment and humiliation. Drawing on insights from Brené Brown, Donald Nathanson, and Paul Gilbert, they explore how shame shows up in the room, from quiet withdrawal to overt aggression and perfectionism.

The hosts dive into Nathanson’s Compass of Shame, the physical and emotional toll of shame spirals, and how gendered expectations shape the way clients internalize or act out their pain. They tackle systemic shame in human services, reflect on a powerful call that "shame must change sides", and discuss why domestic violence work demands genuine accountability rather than weaponized shaming. Packed with practical micro-skills, Shame Resilience Theory, and ways to handle clinician imposter syndrome, this conversation is an essential guide to building real shame competence in practice.

In this episode, we cover:

• What is Shame? Core definitions, its impact on self-esteem, and why the less we talk about it, the more power it holds.

• Sorting the Emotional Spectrum: The crucial clinical distinction between “I am bad” (shame) versus “I did something bad” (guilt), plus how shame masks as anger, especially in men.

• Nathanson’s Compass of Shame: The four defensive patterns (Withdrawal, Avoidance, Attack Self, Attack Others) and how early relational trauma shapes trait shame.

• Gendered Experiences: How men and women process, internalize, or externalize shame differently under societal pressures.

• Systemic & Practice Applications: Why professional systems can accidentally act as "vectors of shame," the dangers of shaming perpetrators in domestic violence work, and why accountability must work through shame rather than weaponizing it.

• "Shame Must Change Sides": A reflection on the landmark trial of Gisèle Pelicot and the power of shifting the burden of shame from victims to perpetrators.

• Practitioner Toolkit: Micro-skills, narrative therapy techniques, Compassion-Focused Therapy (CFT), Shame Resilience Theory (SRT), and building clinician "shame competence".

Resources & Links Mentioned:

• Visit our website: relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au to download our Ambiguous Loss printables.

• Have a practice story, question, or comment? Send us an email at [email protected] or connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube!

• Music by Hannah Park

• Editing by Angus Pinkstone

If you found today's conversation valuable for your practice, please remember to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast to help us build our community and make these essential conversations accessible to more workers.

What actually happens in our brains and bodies when stress crosses the line into psychological harm? In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, hosts Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey take a deep dive into the hidden mechanics of trauma, unpacking how chronic stress reshapes the mind, body, and daily relationships. Jodie and Rose blend neurobiology, developmental insights, and clinical wisdom to help practitioners move past surface symptoms.

In this episode, we unpack:

• The Neurobiology of Threat: How an overactive amygdala, downregulated prefrontal cortex, and shrinking hippocampus keep the nervous system stuck in "survival mode".
• Age & Presentation: Why trauma looks like "high-functioning burnout" or physical pain in adults, but shows up as regression, self-blame, or behavioural disruptions in children.
• The Multi-System Ripple Effect: Using Dan Siegel's Window of Tolerance to understand emotional dysregulation, the shame loop, betrayal trauma, and why hyper-independence is often a trauma response in disguise.
• Practical & Safe Interventions: Why proactive screening matters, why single-session psychological debriefing can cause harm, and how first-line therapies like TF-CBT and EMDR foster genuine recovery.

Whether you are a social worker, allied health professional, educator, or student, this episode offers a grounding, trauma-informed perspective on supporting survivors without burning out yourself.

In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, hosts Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey welcome back Dr. Adam McCormick, Professor of Social Work at St. Edward’s University, trauma expert, and author, for an in-depth conversation on reframing how practitioners connect with boys.

Traditional direct-questioning methods often fall short when supporting boys carrying trauma, navigating the foster care system, or struggling under societal expectations of masculinity. Dr. McCormick breaks down how traditional masculine norms cause boys to disconnect from their internal emotional landscapes, frequently masking vulnerability, fear, or sadness behind anger and defiance.

Key Takeaways:

· Understanding "Shoulder-to-Shoulder" Connection: Why shifting away from face-to-face, analytical questioning toward low-stakes, relational spaces allows boys to open up safely.

· The Role of Shame & Adaptation: How a boy’s behaviour, including emotional shutdown or anger, acts as an adaptive, protective response to shame and trauma.

· Pacing & Tone: Practical guidance on dropping seeds of conversation, sitting with silence, and using relational language instead of confrontational prompts.

· Holding Space in High-Tension Moments: Techniques for staying present during big emotional responses (defiance or shutdown) without escalating or pulling away.

Whether you work in child protection, out-of-home care (OOHC), school counselling, or clinical therapy, this episode provides actionable insights to help you build safety, trust, and genuine connection with the boys in your practice.

Episode Resources & Guest Info

· Guest Website & Work: Learn more about Dr. Adam McCormick’s research and books, including Healing the Helping Professional: The Unfinished Business of Childhood and LGBTQ Youth in Foster Care.

· Podcast Website: Visit relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au for show notes, printables, and extra resources.

· Get in Touch: Send your practice stories, feedback, or questions to [email protected] or find us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.

· Edited by Angus Pinkstone

· Music by Hannah Park

Ever wondered why a supervisor’s quick "got a second?" sends one co-worker into a full-blown existential crisis, while another completely ignores the email? It turns out our early attachment templates follow us straight through the office doors and sit right at our desks!

In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, hosts Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey take a look at how adult attachment theory plays out in the wild world of social work and human services. We are diving into the quirky, relatable ways our internal working models of anxiety and avoidance show up when we're on the clock, shining a spotlight on everything from workplace dynamics to supervision style.

Whether you're navigating high-stress casework, managing a team, or just trying to survive your next group project, understanding your workplace attachment style is the ultimate cheat code for protecting your peace and preventing burnout.

In this episode, we explore:

· Attachment in the workplace: How secure, anxious, avoidant, and fearful-avoidant styles actually look during a typical workday.

· Boss Energy and Supervision: Why some leaders build a "secure base" while others slide into micromanagement or total ghosting.

· Decoding Client Dynamics: How spotting a client's attachment style helps you realize that "hostility" or "disengagement" isn't personal, it's just a self-protective strategy.

· Burnout, Boundaries, and You: How over-identifying with cases or putting up emotional walls impacts your energy levels.

· Building Psychological Safety: Simple, practical ways to use reflective supervision to build real trust and genuine connection at work.

Podcast Website: Visit relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au for show notes, printables, and extra resources.

Get in Touch: Send your practice stories, feedback, or questions to [email protected] or find us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.

Edited by Angus Pinkstone

Music by Hannah Park

Ever wonder why a delayed text message or a slight shift in tone can send an adult's nervous system into absolute freefall? It's because the body never forgets the quiet relational ruptures of childhood.

In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, hosts Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey take a deep dive into one of the most pervasive, misunderstood issues in clinical practice: abandonment trauma. While we often picture dramatic life events or overt caregiving ruptures, this conversation shines a light on the "quieter" wounds, the subtle, unsaid experience of ambiguous abandonment where a caregiver is physically present, yet emotionally unreachable.

Grounded in attachment theory and Pauline Boss’s concept of ambiguous loss, Jodie and Rose unpack how these early relational micro-experiences shape our internal working models. They explore how growing up with physically present but emotionally absent parents trains a child's developing nervous system to anticipate rejection, building implicit templates of unworthiness that persist into adult relationships and workforce patterns.

In this episode, we explore:

· The Spectrum of Abandonment: Moving beyond obvious abandonment to recognize emotional withdrawal, parentification, and conditional love.

· Ambiguous Loss in Childhood: Navigating the painful reality of ambiguous abandonment and the unique ache of growing up with emotionally absent parents.

· How It Shows Up in Therapy: Recognizing both ends of the spectrum—from panic, hypervigilance, and fear of rejection to rigid self-sufficiency, chronic emptiness, and emotional shutdown.

· Rethinking Clinical Assessment: Moving past generic checklists to ask the key questions that reveal a client's underlying attachment template.

· Practical Treatment Interventions: Step-by-step approaches for nervous system stabilization, somatic safe havens, parts-based dialogue, and repairing relational ruptures.

Show editing by Angus Pinkstone

Title music by Hannah Park

In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, hosts Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey sit down for a deeply honest conversation with Dr. Adam McCormick, Professor of Social Work at St. Edward's University and author of Healing the Helping Professional: The Unfinished Business of Childhood Trauma.

Drawing on his background as an educator, researcher, and former child welfare practitioner, Adam shares how both his academic work and personal lived experience led him to explore the unspoken links between childhood adversity and caregiving careers.

Together, they explore why so many professionals in social work and human services end up exhausted, overextended, and struggling with profound guilt whenever they try to establish standard boundaries. The conversation dives into how early childhood roles, like the family "peacemaker" or "hero” steer individuals into caregiving professions, and why high-stress, chaotic work environments can feel surprisingly familiar to an over-activated nervous system.

Adam breaks down why standard "self-care" advice often misses the mark, how the urge to "fix" others can inadvertently undermine client autonomy, and what it really takes to drop the "invulnerable expert" persona to build authentic, supportive connections with peers.

Connect with Adam & Explore His Work:

· Book: Healing the Helping Professional (NASW Press)

· Free Resources: Adam's Newsletter & Downloads

· LinkedIn: You can find and connect with Adam on LinkedIn

Show editing by Angus Pinkstone

Title music by Hannah Park

Let’s dismantle the most common misconception in social work: that boundaries are about keeping people out. Boundaries aren't about building fortresses; they are about managing the gate.

In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, private practice social workers Dr Jodie Park and Rose Mackey explore what it means to maintain safe, ethical, and protective boundaries. Using the work of social worker, Lauren Finemore, they break down the "boundary spectrum”, from rigid brick walls to weak chicken wire and discuss the ideal "picket fence" balance of structured flexibility.

This conversation is for everyone, whether you are a clinician, case manager, or anyone working directly with people. Jodie and Rose unpack the vital difference between a therapeutic boundary crossing and an unethical boundary violation. They also dive into the complex realities of practice, exploring power dynamics, intersectionality, and how cultural humility allows us to co-construct boundaries in rural and Indigenous communities without enforcing a cold, alienating distance.

Finally, they highlight the true cost of boundary erosion, including compassion fatigue, burnout, and vicarious trauma and share evidence-based, practical strategies to help you maintain your fence so you can keep practicing relationally.

What We Cover:

• The Boundary Spectrum: Recognizing whether your current professional default under stress is a brick wall, chicken wire, or a picket fence.
• Crossings vs. Violations: The crucial reflective test to ensure your actions are client-centred, not self-serving.
• Context & Culture: Navigating overlapping dual relationships and power imbalances in rural and remote settings.
• The Cost of Erosion: Understanding the difference between secondary traumatic stress, vicarious traumatization, and everyday burnout.
• Maintaining Your Fence: Practical clinical tools, from transparent role induction and texting policies to regular, impactful supervision.

Connect With Us:

• Webpage: relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au
• Email: [email protected]
• Socials: Find us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. Please subscribe, rate, and review!
• Editing by Angus Pinkstone
• Music by Hannah Park

Remember to stay safe, take care of yourself, and always practice relationally

Why can trauma make a memory from decades ago feel like it happened yesterday, while wiping other events out entirely?

In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, private practice social workers Dr Jodie Park and Rose Mackey dive into the neurobiology of trauma and memory. They break down how the brain processes information normally versus how it shifts into survival mode under extreme stress.

This conversation is for everyone, whether you are a clinician, case manager, or anyone working directly with trauma, or if you are a survivor, love someone who is, or simply want to understand how the brain works. Jodie and Rose unpack the difference between explicit narrative memory and implicit "body memories". They explore the unique impacts of childhood adversity and how early trauma shapes a developing brain.

This episode sheds light on universal experiences of disclosure dynamics, dissociation, and betrayal trauma. Finally, they share the hope of neuroplasticity, spotlighting evidence-based pathways to healing like EMDR, CPT, and memory reconsolidation

What We Cover:

• The Brain's Team: How the hippocampus, amygdala, and prefrontal cortex fracture under stress.
• The Reshaping Window: How the brain strengthens threat cues and weakens the broader picture within 24 hours of an event.
• Time-Stamping & Triggers: Why the brain struggles to mark trauma as "past tense," causing survivors to relive rather than just remember.
• Somatic Memory & Dissociation: Understanding body memories, behavioural re-enactment, and the survival logic of "betrayal blindness".
• Defining Recovery: Why healing means gaining the confidence to manage your feelings and narrative, not forgetting the past.

Connect With Us:

• Webpage: relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au
• Email: [email protected]
• Socials: Find us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. Please subscribe, rate, and review!
• Editing by Angus Pinkstone
• Music by Hannah Park

Support Services (Australia):

• Lifeline: 13 11 14
• Beyond Blue: 1300 22 4636
• 1800RESPECT: 1800 737 732

Please listen in a way that feels safe. Take care of yourself first.

"We were taught to be empathic. Nobody taught us what to do when it starts to hurt."

Think of a client whose story has stayed with you, one you’ve carried home, or that found its way into your sleep. That isn't a sign that something went wrong. That is empathy doing exactly what it was designed to do. But how do we sustain that empathy over an entire career without burning out?

In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey unpack the neuroscience, the nuance, and the real-world practice of empathy. Moving beyond the idea that empathy is just a personality trait, they explore it as a multidimensional, neurobiological process that can be understood, developed, and regulated.

What We Cover in This Episode:

• The Three Types of Empathy: Breaking down Cognitive, Affective, and Compassionate empathy—and why understanding the difference dictates the "cost" of your connection.
• The Neuroscience of Connection: How mirror neurons literally activate a client's physiological experience in your own brain, and how Tania Singer’s research differentiates the pain centers of empathy from the reward circuits of compassion.
• The Empathy Dial & The Nervous System: A practical clinical tool to keep you in the "optimal zone" (present and curious, but not swept away) using a Polyvagal lens.
• Protecting Your Empathy: Daily, actionable strategies for social workers—including micro-debrief rituals, maximizing supervision, and tapping into vicarious resilience.

Empathy doesn't wear out, but an unregulated empathic response does. Tune in to learn how to adjust your dial, not to feel less, but to feel sustainably.

Connect with Us: Go to our new webpage at relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au to access past episodes and our ambiguous loss printables. Have a practice story or question?

Drop us a line at [email protected] or find us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube!

Editing by Angus Pinkstone.

Music by Hannah Park.

Trigger Warning: This episode contains detailed discussions regarding aggression, violence, and antisocial behaviour. We recognize this content may be distressing, so please prioritize your well-being while listening.

Aggression is a topic that sits at the very heart of social work practice, yet it is rarely "one-size-fits-all". In this episode, Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey dive into the nuances of aggressive behaviour, moving beyond the surface-level outburst to understand the underlying drivers.

Whether you are navigating a heated argument with a client or assessing purposeful, goal-directed harm, the distinction between Reactive and Instrumental aggression changes everything about how we assess, respond to, and ultimately help the people we work with.

Key Discussion Points

• The Two Faces of Aggression: We break down the fundamental differences between Reactive Aggression (the "hot," impulsive survival response driven by fear or threat) and Instrumental Aggression (the "cold," calculated, and goal-directed behaviour).
• The Survival Brain vs. The Thinking Brain: Understanding how reactive aggression often stems from physiological arousal and trauma, where the emotional brain takes over before the thinking brain can intervene.
• The Challenge of Instrumental Aggression: Why "cold" aggression is often harder to identify clinically and its strong links to callous-unemotional traits and reduced empathy.
• Evidence-Based Interventions: We explore which treatments work for which profile—ranging from CBT, Anger Management, and DBT for reactive patterns, to Schema Therapy and specialized cognitive training for instrumental behaviours.
• The Social Work Strength: Why a whole-person, systemic, and trauma-informed lens is the most powerful tool for de-escalation and long-term change.
• Practitioner Safety: A vital reminder that clinician self-care is a non-negotiable part of working with high-risk behaviours.

We’d love to hear from you! Do you have a story, question, or topic you'd like us to talk about? Or maybe you'd like to join us as a guest on an episode? Drop us a line at [email protected]

Editing by Angus Pinkstone.

Music by Hannah Park.