RevOps FM

This week we sit down with Mallory Lee, a seasoned RevOps leader whose career spans transformative roles at Pardot, Terminus, and more. Together, we tackle the realities of RevOps today, from debunking the myth that RevOps is the buyer for tech tools to navigating the challenges of unified operations.

Mallory reflects on her time leading teams through the rise of ABM platforms, highlighting lessons learned about hype, strategy, and staying grounded in reality. She also shares her candid perspective on the role of RevOps as the backbone of a company’s strategy. We explore how RevOps can bring alignment across go-to-market teams, why getting the ICP right is a never-ending challenge, and how tech platforms like marketing automation must evolve to keep up with modern demands.

Whether you’re a RevOps practitioner, a SaaS vendor, or just someone who loves geeking out over strategy, this episode is packed with unvarnished truths and actionable insights.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Mallory Lee is an experienced Revenue Operations professional with 15 years of experience collaborating across the GTM Org and C-Suite to scale B2B SaaS revenue. She's held marketing and RevOps leadership positions at companies like Terminus and Nylas, is a product advisor for RevTech companies, and co-founder of the RevTech Review.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mallorylee/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [00:57] - Favourite RevOps career path
• [01:34] - Why you shouldn’t build software for RevOps
• [05:26] - Iterating on your go-to-market message
• [07:50] - Shortcomings of ABM tools
• [16:21] - Signal-based selling and the role of RevOps
• [25:52] - Marketing automation landscape
• [33:58] - Unified RevOps
• [46:09] - Product consulting
• [48:41] - RevTech Review

Marketers: it's planning season. Time to live in your office with the world's biggest spreadsheet and hope that finance doesn't slash your budget.

Planning is tough, but at least you can put your best foot forward with a structured framework that covers all the bases. Our friends at Uptempo have just launched the Blueprint for Marketing Planning.

It's a totally free and comprehensive guide for enterprise marketing teams. You'll get a seven-step planning process that integrates top-down strategy with bottom-up execution and gives you a crystal clear picture of how you'll hit your number.

Get your free copy now:

Uptempo Planning Guide

• The RevTech Review

Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:

Newsletter

One of the most interesting projects I worked on recently was a rebuild of our ABM / outbound / buying signal tech stack at my day job. 

I had bought one of the big legacy ABM platforms a few years ago but had never really seen the value we were hoping for, at least not enough to justify the cost. 

And meanwhile, there’s been this explosion of new vendors in the outbound space—tracking signals, aggregating signals, powering sales workflows, enrichment, AI SDR assistants, and the list goes on. 

I did a really deep evaluation to understand the landscape, and just as I wrapped that up, I sat down with Janis and Philipp who host the RevOps Lab podcast by Weflow.

We had a great discussion and really went into the details on this topic. If you’re thinking about changing up your ABM tech or just want to get oriented on what’s going on here, this is a great episode for you. 

Hope you enjoy it, and check out more episodes from RevOps Lab here: https://www.getweflow.com/revops-lab

--------

Justin Norris, Senior Director of Marketing Ops at 360 Learning and host of the RevOps FM podcast, joins us to dive into outbound strategies and the evolving role of AI in sales. Justin shares his approach to outbound, focusing on experimentation, signals, and leveraging technology to make outbound motions more effective. He also discusses the importance of flexibility in trying new outbound approaches and creating a system where teams can experiment and learn what works best.

• The shift from traditional outbound methods to AI-driven strategies
• How signals play a critical role in outbound success
• The importance of flexibility and experimentation in outbound
• Using tools like MadKudu to streamline outbound workflows
• AI’s role in the future of outbound and sales engagement

• [00:00] Introduction
• [01:17] Justin’s Background and Journey in RevOps
• [03:59] Outbound in the Modern Sales Environment
• [07:31] Signals and AI in Outbound Strategy
• [14:39] Building Flexibility into Outbound Motions
• [19:06] The Future of AI and Sales Engagement
• [24:00] Experimentation and Learning in Outbound
• [35:30] Final Thoughts and Advice

--------

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode. 

We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.

UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.

You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect. 

So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.

Try UserGems

Attribution remains one of the hardest challenges in marketing.

It affects literally EVERYTHING: how we’re perceived as a discipline, the strategies we pick, the activities we decide to do—even how we justify our existence.

B2B companies generally use some combination of first touch, last touch, or multi-touch attribution. They may apply those approaches very diligently and rigorously, but few stop to consider whether those methods are valid and sound.

How do we know whether attribution actually predicts anything? Are we just deluding ourselves? And if we tear down MTA, what do we put in its place?

In today's conversation with Pranav Piyush—CEO of Paramark—we discuss how to apply marketing mix modelling and incrementality testing to understand the effectiveness of any channel or asset.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Pranav Piyush is the Co-Founder and CEO of Paramark, a platform providing marketing measurement and forecasting for fast-growing businesses. Prior to Paramark, he's held growth and marketing leadership roles for companies like Magento, Pilot.com, and BILL.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/pranavp/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:45] - Why multi-touch attribution isn’t valid
• [07:19] - Why MMM overcomes the limitations of MTA
• [11:05] - Correlation vs. causation
• [16:00] - Measuring the impact of content
• [22:47] - How MMM works under the hood
• [27:12] - Running an incrementality test without MMM
• [32:26] - Qualitative insights
• [37:39] - Incrementality deep dive
• [43:07] - Brand
• [49:30] - Paramark

This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.

This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.

Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.

MOps-Apalooza 2024

• Paramark - Stop Guessing, Start Growing: Marketing Measurement Redefined

Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:

Newsletter

This week we sit down with M.H. Lines, founder of Stack Moxie, to explore how automated testing and monitoring can prevent Martech failures.

M.H. shares insights from her experience as a marketing operations leader and explains why many revenue teams are still vulnerable to unexpected system breakdowns. We dive into the challenges that come with managing complex Martech stacks and why early detection through automated tools is essential for keeping operations running smoothly.

M.H. also reflects on her journey from marketing leadership to founding Stack Moxie, including how she navigates being a venture-backed startup without compromising on her core principles.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

M.H. Lines founded Stack Moxie in 2018 to bridge the gap between engineering and no-code technology for the SaaS economy. She has helped teams in marketing and technology both in-house and as a consultant at companies like Terex, Cohn & Wolfe, Microsoft, Lowes, The Tile Doctor and IBM Watson Health. MH received an undergraduate degree from The Florida State University in Finance, and her MBA from the Foster School of Business, University of Washington with a focus on Technology Management. 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mhlines/

• [00:00] - [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:49] - Secrets to Gap Folding
• [03:55] - From marketing to MOPS
• [07:54] - MOPS as strategic vs. service provider
• [14:28] - Being wired as a founder
• [17:55] - Working in mega-enterprise
• [22:59] - Observability for MOPS
• [34:35] - Observability and AI
• [39:12] - Being a VC-backed founder

Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode. 

We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.

UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.

You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect. 

So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.

Try UserGems

• The Official Home of Stack Moxie and Revenue Observability

Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:

Newsletter

This week we chat with Grant Grigorian, a long-time friend of mine and founder of Mogi.ai, to explore whether AI is actually a game-changer for data analytics.

We examine what’s broken in the current landscape of data analytics, the complex world of marketing attribution, and the “last mile of analytics” problem (that is., how do you get business users to actually read and use the analyses you produce).

Then we dive very deep into practical applications of AI for data analysis, looking at concrete examples to highlight the strengths and weaknesses of large language models (LLMs) and contrasting them with traditional machine learning approaches.

In closing, Grant reflects on the future of data careers in the age of AI.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

A startup guy who loves B2B marketing technology, analytics, and AI, Grant Grigorian is a serial entrepreneur. Coming from an operations background, Grant founded Path to Scale, a marketing analytics company, that sold to Engagio (later acquired by DemandBase). Today he's the CEO and co-founder of Mogi, an app that simplifies marketing data analysis by automatically delivering insights and recommendations to your team.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantgrigorian/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:06] - What’s broken in data analytics
• [08:45] - Using data to justify marketing’s existence
• [18:15] - Analyzing marketing tactics
• [24:39] - The “last mile of analytics” problem
• [28:56] - Strengths and weaknesses of LLMs to extract insights from data
• [45:49] - Difference between LLMs and machine learning
• [50:37] - The importance of context for AI
• [54:39] - Impact of AI on data careers
• [1:00:07] - Motivations as a repeat founder

Marketers: it's planning season. Time to live in your office with the world's biggest spreadsheet and hope that finance doesn't slash your budget.

Planning is tough, but at least you can put your best foot forward with a structured framework that covers all the bases. Our friends at Uptempo have just launched the Blueprint for Marketing Planning.

It's a totally free and comprehensive guide for enterprise marketing teams. You'll get a seven-step planning process that integrates top-down strategy with bottom-up execution and gives you a crystal clear picture of how you'll hit your number.

Get your free copy now:

Uptempo Planning Guide

• Mogi.ai

Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:

Newsletter

Sales leadership is one of the hardest jobs in the company. Your success is black and white—you've either hit your number, or you haven't—and getting a group of sellers moving in the same direction isn’t easy, as anyone in RevOps knows.

Today we're joined by Kyle Asay to dig into what separates top-performing sales leaders from the rest. We talk about how to scale sales excellence, balance standardization with creativity, and build trust and rapport at every stage of the sales process.

Kyle also shares his insights on navigating the transition from individual contributor to sales leader, the real role of AI in outbound, and how to build a side hustle while leading a team.

Packed with practical frameworks and hard-won lessons, this conversation is a must-listen for sales leaders, individual sellers, and revenue operators supporting sales teams.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Kyle Asay started his career in sales as an SDR at Qualtrics, where he qualified for five consecutive President’s Clubs as an AE, front-line leader, and second-line leader.

After an incredible 8.5 years at Qualtrics, he's gone on to serve as a sales leader for MongoDB and currently at LaunchDarkly.

You can also find him sharing his frameworks with over 10,000 sellers at SalesIntroverts.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyleasay/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:52] - Current selling environment
• [04:46] - Scaling sales excellence
• [10:05] - Right-sizing discovery phase
• [12:39] - Building trust and rapport
• [17:53] - Transitioning from sales IC to sales leader
• [20:46] - The job of a sales leader
• [24:10] - Identifying the right people
• [27:47] - Standardized process vs. individual ingenuity
• [30:59] - Handling the pressure of sales leadership
• [34:55] - AEs and SDR alignment
• [42:47] - AI SDRs
• [44:59] - Sales and RevOps relationship
• [48:23] - Building a side hustle

This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.

This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.

Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.

MOps-Apalooza 2024

• Sales Introverts

Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:

Newsletter

In this episode, we unravel how advanced AI workflows can scale a truly effective outbound strategy (and not just create more spam).

Jordan Crawford shares his expertise on how to use AI to automate deep research, identify the most targeted accounts, and develop unique and relevant messaging—all without falling into the trap of reductive "AI SDR" approaches.

We also explore how to leverage AI as a thought partner, the future structure of BizDev teams, and why Clay is all the rage right now.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Jordan Crawford has been in growth for over 10 years, and for the past three and a half has been the founder of Blueprint, an agency that specializes in structuring any data from the public web about your ideal prospects. He's also been an advisor to Clay since 2021.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordancrawford/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:59] - Changes in the outbound landscape
• [06:41] - How to use AI as a thought-partner
• [11:28] - Why AI SDRs are not the future
• [14:28] - AI in the writing process
• [20:42] - What WILL replace the SDR function
• [28:59] - The difference with enterprise buyers
• [30:34] - Signals
• [38:48] - Making AI plays resilient
• [43:04] - Clay

This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.

This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.

Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.

MOps-Apalooza 2024

• Blueprint

Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:

Newsletter

You may have heard the phrase, "every company is a media company"—but what does this actually mean for B2B?

How do you go about building an audience, what content should you use, and how should you measure it?

Here to answer these questions is category-creating CMO and founder, Anthony Kennada. He helped pioneer the category of customer success as founding CMO at Gainsight, and today is helping B2B companies develop owned audiences as CEO of AudiencePlus.

Anthony is a great marketer who has thought deeply about how brands should develop relationships with audiences for the long term. This wide-ranging conversation explores many facets of how to put this into practice.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Anthony Kennada is the co-founder and CEO of AudiencePlus—building software, content, and community to help every company become a media company.

Prior to founding AudiencePlus, he served as the CMO of companies like Hopin, Front, and Gainsight. At this last company, he and his team are credited with creating the Customer Success category.

Anthony is also the author of Category Creation: How to Build a Brand that Customers, Employees, and Investors Will Love, which debuted as a number one new release on Amazon.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/akennada/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:43] - Evolving through growth stages at Gainsight
• [06:40] - Category creation
• [14:09] - Why should every company be a media company?
• [24:31] - Metrics for audience marketing
• [34:47] - Partnering with content creators
• [40:25] - Edutainment
• [44:29] - Golden Hour

Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode. 

We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.

UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.

You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect. 

So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.

Try UserGems

• Why Every Company is Becoming a Media Company | AudiencePlus

Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:

Newsletter

Quote-to-cash: it's messy, it's technical, and every project takes WAY longer than planned.

It's also absolutely vital. If you can't get quotes out the door, or if you can't collect money from your customers, you don't have a business.

Because of their complexity, these systems tend to change infrequently, and in-house operators may not get the repetitive exposure necessary to master the intricacies of CPQ or billing system projects.

So when I wanted a crash course on quote-to-cash, I turned to Nick and Tony at Hyperscayle—former operators who've built a RevOps agency with a focus on lead-to-cash operations.

We go deep into the process and systems, discuss technical gotchas, and explore the change management issues that must be addressed to make quote-to-cash work smoothly.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Nicholas Rose is Co-Founder of Hyperscayle, a RevOps consulting firm covering lead-to-cash operations. He's previously held senior operations roles at Dell and Mendix (acquired by Siemens AG).

Tony Tarantino is Chief Architect at Hyperscayle. Previously, he was a technology consultant at Accenture and application architect at Mendix.

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [00:56] - Making the jump from in-house to agency
• [05:17] - Quote to cash definitions
• [10:25] - Design phase and cross-functional alignment
• [14:06] - When does a company need CPQ
• [16:41] - Why are CPQ projects so messy
• [22:34] - Product configuration
• [28:01] - Ideal tech stack
• [32:26] - Data quality and deal desk
• [36:20] - Role of RevOps

Marketers: it's planning season. Time to live in your office with the world's biggest spreadsheet and hope that finance doesn't slash your budget.

Planning is tough, but at least you can put your best foot forward with a structured framework that covers all the bases. Our friends at Uptempo have just launched the Blueprint for Marketing Planning.

It's a totally free and comprehensive guide for enterprise marketing teams. You'll get a seven-step planning process that integrates top-down strategy with bottom-up execution and gives you a crystal clear picture of how you'll hit your number.

Get your free copy now:

Uptempo Planning Guide

• Hyperscayle RevOps Advisory & Implementation Services

Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:

Newsletter

This week I sit down with seasoned RevOps executive Danielle Marquis to explore the evolving landscape of the discipline and how professionals can find balance and fulfillment in their careers.

Danielle shares insights from her 15 years of experience in the field, discussing how RevOps has changed over time and how the role is increasingly being positioned as a critical function within organizations. We dive into the best practices for structuring RevOps teams, prioritizing work, and aligning internal strategies for maximum impact.

As the conversation unfolds, we also explore some personal aspects of career growth, with Danielle offering candid advice on how to carve out a fulfilling path in RevOps and find your happy place at work.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

With 15 years of experience in revenue operations, Danielle Marquis has lead global teams supporting sales, marketing, and customer success functions in achieving their goals and growing the business. Her super power is connecting the dots across various business decisions and technologies to drive and design a more operationalized path to GTM.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellemarquis/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:06] - Evolution of RevOps in the past 15 years
• [11:08] - Positioning RevOps internally
• [16:46] - Team structure
• [26:16] - Planning and prioritization
• [30:40] - Finding your happy place at work
• [39:40] - What’s next in RevOps
• [43:46] - RevOps vs. GTM Ops

This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.

This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.

Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.

MOps-Apalooza 2024

Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:

Newsletter