Rogue Librarians

In this, our last bonus episode for our banned books month extravaganza, we celebrate the freedom to read while discussing Kate Quinn’s The Astral Library, a magical library-centered novel that doubles as a love letter to libraries and the people who use them.

We discuss the book’s sanctuary theme, the rules of the Astral Library, the tension around library boards, and why libraries matter as real-world places of refuge, access, and community support.

The following subjects came up during our discussion:

• Louise Penny’s Three Pines series featuring Inspector Gamache

• Former Librarian of Congress Carla Hayden’s time as director of Baltimore’s Enoch Pratt Free Library, where she kept the library open during the 2015 protests over the death of 25 year old Black man Freddy Gray while in police custody.    

• Information on Library Boards

• The ALA’s “The Role of Library Trustees”  and  

• Pennsylvania’s Office of Commonwealth Libraries document Public Library Operations and Board Governance: Governing the Library

• The defunding of the Samuels Public Library in Front Royal, Virginia.

• Louisiana school librarian, Amanda Jones, author of That Librarian: The Fight Against Book Banning in America,  

• Rogue Librarians Episode 42: Interview with Librarian and Author Amanda Jones 

• Images of some amazing book dresses that may or may not have inspired Kate Quinn. 

If you would like to join the conversation, please check out our website, theroguelibrarians.com.

Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, BlueSky, TikTok at Rogue Librarians Pod.

Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your podcasts, and please leave us a rating and review.

If you would like to support us financially, please join our Patreon at patreon.com/roguelibrarians.

This podcast was produced by us, Marion and Dorothy. Sound editing by Dorothy, Assistant Producer Heather, Social Media Director Simon, and music by Chris. Special thanks to Alana the Lioness, our co-founder and forever host, Lizzie, the obstinate, headstrong girl who taught us all about sound editing, and our loyal Patreon supporters.

Finally, thanks to all of you for reading with us, because, "Any book worth banning is a book worth reading." ~Isaac Asimov.

When you’re fighting censorship, the goal isn’t just to say “this is bad.” It’s to make sure kids can still find the books, the stories, and themselves.   In our conversation with authors Ashley Hope Pérez and Elana K. Arnold, we talk about how the anthology Banned Together helps librarians, teachers, readers, and writers stand up for the freedom to read—and build community along the way.  What are you protecting right now: a book, a voice, or a space?

The following things came up during our discussion.

• Rogue Librarians Episode 10. Out of Darkness: Interview with Ashley Hope Pérez

• Rogue Librarians Episode 23. Interview with Author Elana K. Arnold  

• Libro.fm: a digital audiobook platform that lets you buy audiobooks while sharing its profits with a local independent bookstore of your choice. It serves as an ethical alternative to services like Audible, offering a massive catalog of titles that you truly own 

• How to Defend Books and Why: Book Bans and How We Fight Them, by Danny Caine

• Accountable:  The True Story of a Racist Social Media Account and the Teenagers Whose Lives It Changed, by Dashka Slater

• Grandad's Pride (A Grandad's Camper LGBTQ Pride Book for Kids in partnership with GLAAD),

You can find Ashley Hope Perez via her website: Home - Ashley Hope Pérez; email: [email protected]; Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/ashleyhopeperez; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ashley-Hope-P%C3%A9rez/167177466648492; Goodreads: http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4394044.Ashley_Hope_P_rez; Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ashleyhopeperez/ 

You can find Elana K. Arnold via her website: elanakarnold.com; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ElanaKArnold/; Twitter: https://twitter.com/elanakarnold;

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elanakarnold/

Week, schmeek, we’re celebrating  Banned Books Month and our freedom to read throughout October.  This week we talk with author and poet Amber McBride about her novel in verse, The Leaving Room, which turns big questions about death, story, and spirit into something tender and human.  Our conversation ranges from books and storytelling to censorship and the comfort literature can offer young readers.

Amber reminds us that reading can be joy, resistance, and freedom all at once.  And yes — the freedom to choose what we read matters more than ever.  We are not saying read everything.  We are saying people should have access, choice, and context. That distinction changes everything.

You can find Amber McBride at  amber-mcbride.com and on Instagram, Tiktok, and Threads @ambsmcbride

Books and media we discussed during our conversation include:

• Tar Beach, by Faith Ringgold

• Where the Wild Things Are, by Maurice Sendak

• Anything at all by Judy Blume

• Films The Shape of Water and Frankenstein directed by Guillermo del Toro, 

• The Poem “Literal” from Ani DiFranco Verses, by Ani DiFranco

• Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West  by Gregory Maguire 

• The Oz Books by L. Frank Baum

•  The Netflix Documentary High on the Hog: How African American Cuisine Transformed America based on the book High on the Hog: A Culinary Journey from Africa to America by Jessica B. Harris

Join us as we kick off our celebration of banned books week and our freedom to read.   We welcomed  back our friend Sam Helmick, the immediate past president of the American Library Association, to discuss Susan Orlean’s marvelous book, The Library Book.  

During our discussion, we brought up a few prior episodes of Rogue Librarians, including:

Episode 17. The Librarian of Basra (Part 1: Why It's Banned)

Episode 18. The Librarian of Basra (Part 2: Close Reading)

Episode 54. Fahrenheit 451 (Part 1: Why It’s Banned

Episode 53. Fahrenheit 451 (Part 2 : Close Reading)

In this episode we welcome back our friend, Rogue name Undine, for a close reading of The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood.  We decided to give this book the Sacred Reading treatment introduced to us by the incredible podcast Harry Potter and the Sacred Text.  We used the practice of Lectio Divinia and modeled our discussion after the “sacred reading” format used by Casper ter Kuile, Vanessa Zoltan and Matthew Potts in their podcast. Here is the link to their webpage, which explains the process in more detail.

• Harry Potter and the Sacred Text

The three of us discuss the book through the themes of Transformation and Control.  

The following works were referenced during our discussion:

• The painting by Pietro da Cortona, Rape of the Sabines, 1629-1630

• The 1953 movie Elephant Walk 

• Man’s Search for Meaning, by Victor Frankel

• I Who Have Never Known Men by Jacqueline Harpman

• The Disney Plus series Andor

• The Hulu series Creamerie

• The Dream Hotel, by Laila Lalami

We referenced some of Margaret Atwood’s inspirations for the book, which we discovered in the article Haunted by The Handmaid's Tale | Science fiction books | The Guardian, specifically, 

• Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley

• Fahrenheit 451, by Ray Bradbury

• And 1984, by George Orwell

Also, we discussed several artworks that were inspired by The Handmaid’s Tale, including 

• The Balbusso Twins, Margaret Atwood Collection. 

• Ken Cunningham Studios, Margaret Atwood

• Paula Scher and Abbot Miller’s 2017 large-scale installation, Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

Finally, if you want to hear related episodes of our podcast, try 

Episode 81. The Handmaid's Tale (Part 1: Why It's Banned) 

Episode 68. 1984 (Part 1: Why It's Banned) - Rogue Librarians 

Episode 69. 1984 (Part 2: Close Reading) - Rogue Librarians

Welcome to season 5 of The Rogue Librarians!  We are opening with a discussion of Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale.  Published in 1986, this dystopian tale of a religious revolution in the U.S. only seems to get more relevant with time. In Part 1 we learn a little about the history of the book and of course, why it’s been banned.  We are joined by a special guest, Rogue name Undine, who brings insight and art history to the conversation.  

Materials discussed during the podcast include:

In Banned Bits: 

• Article Why This School District Used A.I. to Help Determine Which Books to Ban, Smithsonian Magazine, 21 Aug 2023.

In Why It’s Banned:  

• Article  Why The Handmaid's Tale was banned from schools - The Mirror US, 10 Apr 2025 

• Article Why was The Handmaid's Tale banned?, MSN.com, 22 Mar 2026

• Article  There’s a simple reason The Handmaid’s Tale was banned in the US, from the website Dexerto 10 Apr 2025

• The ALA’s Censorship Search Portal | Banned Books 

In Context

• Blog Post The Handmaid's Tale: 10 intriguing facts about Margaret Atwood's dystopian novel, CBC-Radio (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation), Apr 26, 2017 

•  No Balm in Gilead for Margaret Atwood, The New York Times on the Web, Books column, February 17, 1986

• Web page Timeline of Legal History of Women in the United States, National Women’s History Alliance, 

• Project 2025, The Heritage Foundation, 2023

• Project 2025 Explained, The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)

• Utah Philips, Folksinger, Storyteller and Activist.

•  Decree 770 - Reference.org 

• Paintings Depicting the Rape of the Sabine Women

• Pietro da Cortona, Rape of the Sabines, 1629-1630

• Nicolas Poussin, The Rape of the Sabine Women, 1635

• Peter Paul Rubins, The Rape of the Sabine Women, 1640

• Jacques-Louis David, The Intervention of The Sabine Women, 1799

• Pablo Picasso, The Rape of the Sabines, 1962

• Friedrich Christof Steinhammer, Rape of the Sabine Women, 1622

• Album - Sabine Women, 271+ Images

Related Media

• Movie The Handmaid’s Tale directed by Volker Schlöndorff, 1990

• Opera The Handmaid’s Tale, written by , Poul Ruders, alongside librettist, Paul Bentley, 2000

• TV Series The Handmaid’s Tale, Hulu, 2017-2025

• The Handmaid's Tale: The Graphic Novel, adapted by Renée Nault, 2019

• Canada’s Royal Winnipeg Ballet, The Handmaid’s Tale, 2022

Join the conversation at therogelibrarians.com or follow @RogueLibrariansPod on Instagram and Facebook. You can support the podcast on Patreon at patreon.com/roguelibrarians. 

“Any book worth banning is a book worth reading.” — Isaac Asimov

Welcome to Season 5 of the Rogue Librarians.  We are excited to announce the starting line-up for the season. Upcoming books include:

• The Handmaid’s Tale, by Margaret Atwood

• Slaughterhouse 5, by Kurt Vonnegut

• Persepolis, by Marjane S

• I Am Not Your Perfect Mexican Daughter by Erika L. Sánchez 

For Banned Books Week we will release lots of special discussions during the month of October, including: 

• Banned Together, by Elana K. Arnold and Ashley Hope Perez, with special guest Elana K. Arnold.

• The Library Book, by Susan Orlean, with special guest Sam Helmick

• The Astral Library by Kate Quinn.

We hope you’ll join us.

In this episode, we interview author Ray Stoeve about their latest book 'Worst Case Scenario' and discuss their work on trans and non-binary youth literature, including a valuable master list of books by and about trans characters. Join us as we explore the importance of diverse voices in literature and the resources available for advocating against censorship.

You can find Ray on socials at: 

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/raystoeve/      

• Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@raystoeve 

• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@RayStoeve 

• Bluesky: @ raystoeve

Or on Ray’s website which includes:

• The Masterlist of young adult and middle grade fiction titles written by trans and/or nonbinary authors that include trans and/or nonbinary characters.

• Links to all of Ray’s books:    

• Worst Case Scenario

• The Summer Love Strategy

• Arden Gray

• Between Perfect and Real 

• And the compilation Take the Mic

Other books we discussed include:

(trans books)

The Lord of the Rings Trilogy by J.R.R. Tolkien

The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson

Half Magic and Knight’s Castle by Edward Eager

Tamora Pierce, who has written so many great books. (We suggest you start with Alanna: The First Adventure)

The Alice Series by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor’s Alice Series

Keeping You a Secret by Julie Anne Peters

If you’re interested in hearing more about trans authors and books, you might enjoy the following episodes of Rogue Librarians:

Episode 1. Gender Queer (Part 1: Why It’s Banned)

Episode 2. Gender Queer (Part 2: Close Reading)

Episode 12. All Boys Aren’t Blue (Part 1: Why It’s Banned)

Episode 13. All Boys Aren’t Blue (Part 2: Close Reading)

Episode 27. This Book is Gay (Part 1: Why It’s Banned)

Episode 28. This Book is Gay (Part 2: Close Reading)

Episode 70. Cemetery Boys (Part 1: Why It’s Banned)

Episode 71. Cemetery Boys (Part 2: Close Reading)

Join the conversation at therogelibrarians.com or follow @RogueLibrariansPod on Instagram Facebook or Blue Sky. You can support the podcast on Patreon at patreon.com/roguelibrarians. 

“Any book worth banning is a book worth reading.” — Isaac Asimov

In this episode, Dorothy and Marian delve into Toni Morrison's 'The Bluest Eye,' exploring themes of beauty, self-worth, racism, and societal pressures through a detailed analysis of the characters and narrative structure.

Works Cited:

• “ Why ‘The Bluest Eye’ by Toni Morrison is a Must-Read: Unpacking Its Depth and Impact - Beyond Pop Culture” 

Join the conversation at therogelibrarians.com or follow @RogueLibrariansPod on Instagram Facebook or Blue Sky. You can support the podcast on Patreon at patreon.com/roguelibrarians. 

“Any book worth banning is a book worth reading.” — Isaac Asimov

In this episode of Rogue Librarians, Marion and Dorothy return to the mic and dive into Toni Morrison’s The Bluest Eye—a frequently challenged and frequently misunderstood novel. This is Part One of their discussion, focused on the reasons the book has been banned and the context readers need before diving into the text itself. They provide historical and literary context for Morrison’s debut novel, including the impact of Dick and Jane basal readers, beauty standards in the 1940s, and the broader social realities shaping Pecola Breedlove’s world.  The hosts explore why the book has been challenged so often, what makes it such an important work, and why difficult books still matter in classrooms, libraries, and public discourse. This is Part One of their discussion, focused on the reasons the book has been banned and the context readers need before diving into the text itself.

The Banned Bits segment came from the Knoxville News Sentinel's article “Knox County Schools bans historical novel 'Roots' by Alex Haley”

Research for this episode includes:

• BANNED: The Bluest Eye | American Experience | Official Site | PBS 

• Martha Harris for KUER 90.1, Utah’s school book ban list passes 30 titles with Toni Morrison’s ‘The Bluest Eye’ 

• Marshall University Library’s Banned Books 2025 - The Bluest Eye

• Book Riot’s Utah Bans Four More Books, Bringing Total to 32

• The New York Times’ 'Oh, Jane, See How Popular We Are'

• America Comes Alive’s Dick and Jane: Story of These Early Readers

• Education Week’s What Is a Basal Reader, And Why Are They Controversial? 

• Howard University School of Law’s A Brief History of Civil Rights in the United States: Reconstruction and Jim Crow Eras 

• Beyond Pop Culture’s Why ‘The Bluest Eye’ by Toni Morrison is a Must-Read: Unpacking Its Depth and Impact

Join the conversation at therogelibrarians.com or follow @RogueLibrariansPod on Instagram and Facebook. You can support the podcast on Patreon at patreon.com/roguelibrarians. 

“Any book worth banning is a book worth reading.” — Isaac Asimov