Dan Hill is the director of the Melbourne School of Design at the University of Melbourne, and author of Dark Matter and Trojan Horses: A Strategic Design Vocabulary and Designing Missions. And he’s the opening speaker at the inaugural Designing with AI conference, where he’ll be presenting “Designing for the Infrastructures of Everyday Life”. 

Like it or not, AI is a growing part of our infrastructure—not just the infrastructure of our phones, our computers, and the internet—but that of our physical world. It’s increasingly  used to support the very fundamental systems that maintain our cities, hospitals, utilities, and educational systems. On some levels, this is cause for concern. After all, we’ve seen other implementations of AI (think riding-sharing services) that have not lived up to their promise but have instead aggravated some of the problems they sought to address.

Dan is a big-picture guy with an ability to draw principles from history and other sectors. He understands that utilizing AI is inevitable. The challenge is recognizing the interconnectedness of our various systems and working together to build infrastructures that truly create better life experiences for all.  

- The many facets of infrastructures

- How AI is currently being used and how it might be used in the future to support our infrastructures

- Why ride-sharing is not exactly an AI model worth repeating

- Why the Japanese and Finnish models work well in those environments but aren’t necessarily transferable to more diverse cultures

- Why quality of life will only improve with a more holistic, integrated design approach

0:37 - Introduction of Dan

3:49 - AI as infrastructure

8:30 - How AI might be used to further support infrastructure systems

12:09 - Will the impact of AI actually make life better? 

18:59 - Plug for Managing Priorities by Harry Max. Get 15% off!

20:15 - The metaphor of designing looking through a lens and technology’s impact on the material world

26:16 - Helpful models – the Japanese and Finnish cultures

31:52 - Dan’s gift to the audience

Dark Matter and Trojan Horses: A Strategic Design Vocabulary by Dan Hill https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Matter-Trojan-Horses-Vocabulary/dp/0992914639/ 

Managing Priorities: How to Create Better Plans and Make Smarter Decisions by Harry Max https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/managing-priorities/ 

Designing with AI Conference, June 4-5 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/events/futures/ 

Smoke and Ashes: Opium’s Hidden Histories by Amitav Ghosh  https://www.amazon.com/Smoke-Ashes-Opiums-Hidden-Histories/dp/0374602921 

“Those [infrastructures] are fundamentally important, but they're also not the point. And that's a really  tricky framing for us because when they're not the point, they're easy to defund or undercut or not think too carefully about.”

“[AI] is going to be a core infrastructure driving things that we absolutely rely on, and as a result, we need to take it seriously and think about it as a public  shared infrastructure.”

“We have to be aware that those scales are all connected and that the decisions you take from an individual point of view, of course, matter in the city or the environment. I know this is the biggest challenge we have as a species. We're not very good at that, but that is precisely what we need to be looking at with AI now, because unless we've got a meaningful conversation happening between those disciplines at all those different scales,  we will take that Uber/Lyft problem and multiply it a thousand fold.”

Jodi Forlizzi has taken an unusual path to get where she is today. With an art degree from the University of Arts in Philadelphia, she began working as a technical illustrator at the University of Pennsylvania. Transitioning into UX design as the internet expanded, she pursued a Master's in Interaction Design at Carnegie Mellon University where she is now a professor. Jodi's work focuses on responsible AI and diversity in computer science. Her talk at the upcoming Designing with AI 2024 conference will explore the evolving role of AI in design processes and products.

Jodi distinguishes between "designing with AI" and "designing AI," arguing the importance of designers' involvement in the entire product development lifecycle. She highlights the challenges of AI innovation, such as data availability, value generation, customer adoption, and ethical considerations and emphasizes that designers have a place in all realms of AI development.

Jodi's interview offers a glimpse into the evolving landscape of AI-driven design and the pivotal role of designers in shaping its future. With a blend of historical context, personal anecdotes, and insights, she inspires designers of all stripes to embrace the challenges and opportunities presented by AI innovation.

0:25 - Introducing Jodi

2:59 - On boundaries around innovating with AI

6:40 – 4 reasons AI models fail

8:07 – The role of designers and the challenge of starting the design process from the middle of the double diamond

11:49 - The role of bridge builders

14:48 - The morphing of careers due to the emergence and prevalence of AI

17:19 - Commercial break - Managing Priorities: How to Create Better Plans and Make Smarter Decisions by Harry Max

18:26 - AI as a design material

21:08 - Constraints and structure on AI as a design material

24:39 - Jodi’s gift for the audience

Managing Priorities: How to Create Better Plans and Make Smarter Decisions by Harry Max https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/managing-priorities/ 

Designing with AI 2024, June 4-5 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/events/futures/ 

Friendly vending machines 

“When you think about innovation, you think about the development of the technology, which is typically done by technologists. But the innovation is where designers take it and make it into a viable desirable product.”

“Reflection in action is like the jazz player improvising and making new music, or the potter working with clay. And reflection on action is when we step back and critique what we've done and figure out what steps work.”

“There's a lots of opportunity for simple, robust AI to improve things that we need.”

In the latest episode of the Rosenfeld Review, Lou sits down with social scientist Tricia Wang, coiner of the term “thick data,” and formerly a partner at  Sudden Compass. Tricia is passionate about research and AI. She envisions massively improved research outcomes and opportunities for researchers, but only if researchers take the lead in incorporating AI into their work. Rather than seeing themselves as “users” of AI tools, researchers must work as AI’s “shapers,” serving as its senior partner.

Tricia’s vision is to cease the fear-mongering surrounding the subject of AI and instead embrace the amazing opportunities for growth and better work by becoming active in the control of AI’s future. 

[0:16] - Lou’s introduction of Tricia Wang

[2:52] - Tricia discusses our future and how we talk about AI

[3:49] - Thoughts on the narrative of fear-mongering we have in the West about AI

[5:47] - The relationship between humans and AI

[5:59] - A new framework: users vs shapers

[9:07] - The problem with taking on a passive role with a technology unlike anything we have ever seen

[11:06] - People who use AI successfully are active shapers

[15:33] - Info on Advancing Research 2024

[17:23] - How users, shapers, and AI affect the field of research

[20:42] - The existential question of what it really means to be a researcher

[31:28] - Tricia’s advice concerning using AI in research

[35:07] - Tricia’s gift for the audience

[38:34] - Tricia wants to hear from you

Tricia Wang https://www.triciawang.com/

Sudden Compass https://www.suddencompass.com/

James Bridle, Ways of Being: Animals, Plants, Machines: The Search For A Planetary Intelligence  https://www.amazon.com/Ways-Being-Machines-Planetary-Intelligence/dp/0374601119

Brett Christopher, Rentier Capitalism: Who Owns the Economy, And Who Pays For It?

https://www.amazon.com/Rentier-Capitalism-Owns-Economy-Pays/dp/1788739728 

Advancing Research 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/ 

"We actually need a new framework for how we orientate ourselves towards technology and in particular AI, like we need entirely new framing and that framework will unlock the way we approach these tools with a different kind of mindset.” 

"It’s created this identity, this modern identity, that is unique to our period, our technological history of this moment, where we have the internet and the computer and a digital society where we’re able to live this parallel life where we’re not just physical beings, but we’re digital beings.” 

“In our digital humanity, we are not human beings. We are users.” 

"There’s a new identity emerging around people who are using AI who aren’t losing their humanity, and those people I call ‘shapers’."

"You are actually not empowered when you are a user interacting with AI, and that kind of identity puts us at a disadvantage because you’re passive and AI is not a finished product.”

"We have to reconnect back to what is the role of the researcher in the first place. Is it just to be a yes person and to do exactly as the company says, or are you there to represent the needs and desires of people, not of users?"

“My advice to you is just embrace AI tools and play and practice with as many as possible.”

In the latest episode of the Rosenfeld Review, Lou sits down with Neil Barrie, the co-founder and CEO of TwentyFirstCenturyBrand, to delve into the intriguing intersection of brand building, culture, and user experience research. Neil, an outsider in the realm of user research, brings a fresh perspective from the world of brand research; you can hear more from him at the Advancing Research 2024 conference in New York City, March 25-26.

Neil emphasizes the need for researchers to adopt a cultural lens when designing product experiences. Drawing from his extensive experience working with influential brands like Airbnb, Bumble, Headspace, and others, Neil suggests that by understanding and leveraging wider cultural factors, researchers can break free from the incremental nature of product development and create more memorable, distinctive, and influential brands.

The conversation touches upon the "wind tunnel effect," where products and services, much like cars in the 90s, risk becoming efficient but less distinctive. Neil argues that by paying attention to cultural factors and experiences, researchers can uncover breakthroughs that go beyond the interchangeable norms of the industry.

Neil’s insights highlight the transformative potential of cultural understanding in user research, offering researchers a valuable lens to navigate the ever-evolving landscape of product experiences.

[0:11] - Lou’s introduction of Neil Barrie

[3:03] - A discussion on the wind tunnel effect in research

[4:24] - Frameworks for understanding culture

[5:41] - Examples from Pinterest

[11:29] - Plug for Advancing Research 2024

[13:23] - The tools of a brand strategy expert

[17:18] - One challenge, multiple perspectives

[19:29] - Reconciling disconnects in research

[22:00] - The qualities needed for this type of research

[24:13] - Neil’s gift for the audience

Advancing Research 2024, New York City, March 25-27, 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/

A Colorful View From the Top – a book featuring candid interviews with luminaries of color who made it to the top in various fields. https://www.amazon.com/Colourful-View-Top-Twenty-One-Extraordinary/dp/1408715791/

The Deluge by Stephen Markley https://www.amazon.com/Audible-The-Deluge/dp/B0B4YTWP7K/

"We're all trying to make our products as useful and beloved as possible, but things can get quite incremental. To really be different and memorable, we need to pay attention to wider cultural factors."

"The wider cultural factors can lead to breakthroughs, just like in brand building. Dedicating attention to cultural experiences can result in great breakthroughs."

"The wind tunnel effect is when things end up being more efficient and better to use but also less distinctive and memorable."

"Cultural understanding can lead to breakthroughs that might not be prioritized if you're just looking at signals from a wide swath of users."

"Dialogue mapping helps uncover disconnects between how people talk about certain themes and how brands communicate them, leading to valuable insights."

Author, researcher, speaker, and frequent Rosenfeld Review guest Steve Portigal joins Lou for a chat on the state of the user research industry – where we’ve been, where we are, and where we’re headed. If the field of research was once a lonely desert, today it’s a jungle. It was once a field where researchers could get lost and forgotten. Today, the field is teaming with life—so much so that you could get eaten alive. 

Gleaning lessons from the past, Steve doesn’t want us to forget the desert. But he has no desire to return there. 

In his chat with Lou, they look back, and they look ahead. They discuss shifts in community and networking, and how research agencies are being replaced by in-house research teams.  Finally, the two discuss Steve’s role in the upcoming, in-person Advancing Research conference in Queens, New York. 

[0:00:29] Introduction of Steve

[0:02:50] “Dog fooding”, preparation, and collaboration that happens before conferences

[0:09:30] Comparing the user research field and community now to how it was 25 years ago. 

[0:16:22] The evolution of networking, connections, and community

[0:23:09] Shifts and pivots Steve has seen over the last 25 years in the user research field

[0:30:32] Writing it down and moving on

[0:35:13] Plug for Advancing Research Conference, including Steve’s role

[0:36:27] Steve’s gift for listeners

Steve Portigal’s Rosenfeld Media books  https://rosenfeldmedia.com/people/steve-portigal/ 

Advancing Research Conference (March 25-27) https://rosenfeldmedia.com/events/ 

Steve’s website  https://Portigal.com  

The Wok: Recipes and Techniques by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt

“The survival skills for the desert aren’t the same as the survival skills for the jungle.” 

“The threats and the opportunities and so on are different. I don’t want to forget, but I don’t want to go back.”

We hear a lot about diversity, equity, and inclusion, but you probably haven’t heard it like this. Nigerian-born Victor Udoewa, service design lead at the Centers for Disease Control's Office of Public Health Data, Surveillance, and Technology, brings a beautiful perspective that challenges current research methodologies. 

Victor introduces the notion of the pluriverse, emphasizing that people inhabit different worlds with unique ways of being and knowing. He draws attention to the diverse perspectives that shape people's beliefs and understanding, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging and bridging these gaps.

He also uses a tree as a metaphor, in which the roots are ways of being, the trunk ways of knowing, and the branches and leaves are methodologies and methods. The metaphor suggests that inclusive research should not just focus on the green parts of the tree but what’s underneath the surface, getting to the very roots of being.

Recognizing the limitations of mainstream research toolkits and critiquing methodologies grounded in Western ways of being, Victor proposes that truly inclusive research goes far beyond having diverse teams study diverse audiences.

This episode is just a taste of Victor’s talk at the upcoming in-person Advancing Research Conference, “Beyond Methods and Diversity: The Roots of Inclusion.” 

0:10 - Meet Victor Udoewa

2:16 - About Victor’s talk at Advancing Research 

4:26 - The pluriverse and asymmetry of knowledge

11:20 - Social hierarchy, ways of being, and methodology

12:52 - The tree metaphor - getting to the roots

22:20 - Research starting with a way of being

26:47 - Cultural individualism on research

33:02 - Victor’s gift for listeners

Songlines by Bruce Chatwin https://www.amazon.com/Songlines-Bruce-Chatwin/dp/0140094296 

Decolonizing Methodologies by Linda Tuhiwai Smith  https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/decolonizing-methodologies-9781786998125/ 

Advancing Research 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/ 

"Reality, or the world, is not one world,  a universe; in actuality, there's a pluriverse there. There are many worlds or ways of being or realities."

"In a social hierarchy, the people at the bottom have a knowledge advantage. They have a deeper understanding of the worlds of people at higher points in the hierarchy."

"We need better cross-world connections, cross-world conversations, cross-world relationships."

"Even the very research question you ask is affected by that system of values.”

Harry Max is an executive coach, consultant, and hands-on product design and development leader. He’s also the author of the forthcoming Managing Priorities: How to Create Better Plans and Make Smarter Decisions.

For individuals, teams, and organizations, from managing things, people, places, rules, activities, and projects, Harry’s new book Managing Priorities gets to the heart of how we prioritize and make and implement decisions, whether one-off or events that happen on a regular basis. 

Harry uses DEGAP, a design-thinking framework that he says he didn’t invent but discovered, to explain how successful organizations and leaders set, implement, and execute priorities. DEGAP closes the gap between a current state and a desired state:

Harry and Lou also discuss the importance of flexible thinking (a superpower of designers) when it comes to prioritization, communication, and implementation. 

[0:00:26] Introduction of Harry 

[0:01:59] A discussion on prioritization

[0:04:27] Orders of prioritization

[0:07:39] Distinguishing priorities of the individual, team, and organization – DEGAP

[0:12:26] More about DEGAP at the individual and organizational levels

[0:15:39] Advancing Research 2024, March 25-27

[0:17:13] Review of Harry’s career path

[0:23:47] Unique prioritization challenges for designers

[0:26:25] Harry’s gift for the listeners

Managing Priorities: How to Create Better Plans and Make Smarter Decisions by Harry Max

Advancing Research Conference 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/

4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman https://www.amazon.com/Four-Thousand-Weeks-Management-Mortals/dp/0374159122

Oliver Burkeman’s Maestro course https://www.bbcmaestro.com/courses/Oliver%20Burkeman/time-management 

“We’re brilliant at first-order prioritization.”

“[Prioritization] needs to be a first-class citizen when we bring our evolved jungle selves into the workplace.”

“You have to prioritize prioritization.” 

“DEGAP is really nothing more than a design-thinking framework.”

“Design helps people think. We need to not be so attached to the discipline of design as we are attached to the discipline of thinking.” 

“Designers have a different way of seeing the world. It’s kind of this outside-in, inside-out ability to zoom in and zoom out and look at things from a process point of view and recognize that the process is not the thing. It’s just an enabler.”

Jorge Arango is an Information architect, author, and educator, and he’s written a new book, Duly Noted, about the age-old practice of notetaking. 

If you’re like me, you’ve been taking notes since your school days. Back then, we used notebooks, a Trapper Keeper, and sticky notes – anything that could help us ace a test, remember important tidbits, and consolidate ideas. Notes are an extension of the mind. But it was always a headache to organize them, synthesize them, and recall them at the right time.  

Enter the digital age – which tried to improve on the humble art of notetaking, but apps like Notes and Stickies tried to replicate digitally what we were using in the real world. Newer apps like Obsidian let go of real-world metaphors by utilizing three principles: shorter notes, connecting your notes, and nurturing your notes to build a knowledge garden that will serve you for the rest of your life. 

If you bring value to the world through your thinking, you have the responsibility to look after your thinking apparatus. Duly Noted will augment, magnify, and extend your capacity to think well. Externalizing your mental processes is one of the most powerful means we have to think better. If used well, the humble note will help you be a better thinker and a more effective human.

[0:00:12] Introduction of Jorge and his books

[0:01:18] Introduction of Jorge’s new book on taking notes and creating a knowledge garden, Duly Noted

[0:09:47] Books that will make you a better knowledge worker

[0:14:14] Design in Product Conference 

[0:15:35] Managing knowledge with computers

[0:26:03] Knowledge as a garden

[0:28:09] On tools for nurturing a knowledge garden

[0:33:08] How Jorge uses AI with Obsidian

[0:36:37] Jorge’s gift for listeners 

Information Architecture for the Web and Beyond by Louis Rosenfeld, Peter Morville, and Jorge Arango  https://www.amazon.com/Information-Architecture-Beyond-Louis-Rosenfeld/dp/1491911689 

Living in Information: Responsible Design for Digital Places by Jorge Arango  https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/living-in-information/ 

Duly Noted by Jorge Arango  https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/duly-noted-extend-your-mind-through-connected-notes/

O’Reilly’s book Mind Hacks by Tom Stafford  https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/mind-hacks/0596007795/ 

Tools for Thought by Howard Rheingold  www.rheingold.com/texts/tft/ 

Design in Product Conference, November 29 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/design-in-product/ 

Roam Research https://roamresearch.com/ 

Obsidian https://obsidian.md/ 

The Extended Mind: The Power of Thinking Outside the Brain by Annie Murphy Paul https://anniemurphypaul.com/books/the-extended-mind/ 

Figure it Out: Getting from Information to Understanding by Karl Fast and Stephen Anderson https://www.amazon.com/Figure-Out-Getting-Information-Understanding-ebook/dp/B085412Q1X 

Build a PKG (Personal Knowledge Garden) Workshop https://buildapkg.com 

“The act of putting pen to paper serves as a way to jog your mind into thinking through the steps that are necessary to complete the project.” 

“Externalizing your mental processes is one of the most powerful means we have to think better.”

“Creating joy for yourself and expanding cognitive abilities – what could be better?”

Have you ever felt like the product people want to move too fast? You realize that speed is important, but the quality of the product is going to suffer and the results are going to disappoint.

Or have you ever wished you had a seat at the table during the initial strategy sessions of a new project, rather than being brought in mid-stream?

Do you feel intimidated when talking to the folks on the business and finance side of your organization?

If so, this episode is for you. Ellen Chisa has a background in engineering and an MB. She is a founder, venture capitalist, and partner at Boldtart Ventures. In short, she has to care about the business side of things. But she also cares about user-oriented product design, and she wants the voices of those in the design space to be heard.

The best place to start, she asserts, might be by listening and learning. Ellen encourages designers to familiarize themselves with their organization’s business models and financials. If you’re feeling squirmy about that prospect, Ellen lays out a workable approach that will put both you and the business analyst at ease. 

Ellen’s goal is to help you create more business impact while still feeling like a designer.  Ellen will be the opening keynote at the November 29 Design in Product virtual conference.  

[0:00:20] Introduction of Ellen Chisa and Design in Product Conference

[0:02:22] The double diamond approach to design

[0:04:09] Potent combinations of design tools

[0:05:02] Ellen looking ahead at where technology will go

[0:07:08] Creating more business impact while still feeling like a designer

[0:09:45] How to get a financial toolkit for designers

[0:12:08] Accessible metrics for non-business people

[0:17:32] Design Ops Summit, October 2-6, 2023 

[0:19:02] Feeling like a designer and building a coalition

[0:21:12] How to slow the cadence

[0:23:04] Is it better to focus on revenue and growth or derisking?

[0:25:09] Advice for those who feel reserved about approaching others

[0:27:06] Ellen’s gift for listeners

Design in Product Conference 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/design-in-product/ 

Readwise – save notes from books https://readwise.io/ 

Obsidian https://obsidian.md/ 

“How do I get a new lens? The most approachable way is to figure out the direct tie-in to what they’re working on right now.” 

“I think most junior business people would be happy to hear from a designer. I think they would often think of it as a compliment.”

“No matter what role you’re sitting in in an organization, you’re trying to aggregate a bunch of different viewpoints together and come to the best possible answer. And you’re never going to know everything.” 

“It’s always helpful to have an idea of what’s coming around the corner.”

“There are ways designers can help their team to allow them to feel more like a design, and there are also ways designers can let themself off the hook and give themselves more tools without thinking it’s a big compromise to their mission.”

Today’s interview is just a taste of what you’ll learn at Rosenfeld’s upcoming Design in Product conference—featuring John Cutler’s closing keynote. John is the senior director of product management at Toast, a doodler, a former band member, a UX researcher, and business analyst. He’s also the prolific writer behind “The Beautiful Mess, a Substack newsletter with over 36,000 subscribers, where he writes about cross-functional product management—especially the messy parts. 

As someone who likes “messy, creative endeavors” and building things with other people,  John enjoys unpacking the complicated parts of collaboration, getting to the heart of messes, and finding a way forward involves much more than identifying patterns. 

John finds that each person’s frame or perspective is only one of many. This is one reason the relationship between product and design is a complicated ecosystem, and the whole system—not just a part—needs to evolve together.    

In an effort to reach consensus across teams, John notes that it’s easy to fall into the alignment trap where the so-called alignment is fragile and where consensus becomes more valued than a true solution.  John encourages listeners to get comfortable with the complicated mess, to truly listen to multiple frames and perspectives while holding onto their own, and then to roll up their sleeves and explore a way forward together. 

[0:00:24] Introduction of John Cutler and Design in Product 2023, and the back story behind “The Beautiful Mess”

[0:05:01] Patterns in messes

[0:10:23] The relationship between product and design

[0:14:11] Dealing with varying work speeds and perspectives 

[0:20:32] Design Ops Summit, October 2-6, 2023

[0:21:45] The alignment trap and the simplification trap

[0:30:50] A new metaphor for looking at teams in organizations

[0:34:04] John’s special words for listeners

Design in Product 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/events/ 

The Beautiful Mess, John Culter’s Substack https://cutlefish.substack.com/

Images of Organization by Gareth Morgan https://www.amazon.com/Images-Organization-Gareth-Morgan/dp/0761906320/ 

“You can fool yourself into thinking you know what’s going on by your ability to pattern match, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you have a perfect sense of what’s going on.” 

“I can’t think about product development without thinking of it as a group endeavor.” 

“Teams were trying so hard to align that they weren’t developing coherent models of the problem they were trying to sort through.”