In the latest episode of the Rosenfeld Review, Lou sits down with Neil Barrie, the co-founder and CEO of TwentyFirstCenturyBrand, to delve into the intriguing intersection of brand building, culture, and user experience research. Neil, an outsider in the realm of user research, brings a fresh perspective from the world of brand research; you can hear more from him at the Advancing Research 2024 conference in New York City, March 25-26.

Neil emphasizes the need for researchers to adopt a cultural lens when designing product experiences. Drawing from his extensive experience working with influential brands like Airbnb, Bumble, Headspace, and others, Neil suggests that by understanding and leveraging wider cultural factors, researchers can break free from the incremental nature of product development and create more memorable, distinctive, and influential brands.

The conversation touches upon the "wind tunnel effect," where products and services, much like cars in the 90s, risk becoming efficient but less distinctive. Neil argues that by paying attention to cultural factors and experiences, researchers can uncover breakthroughs that go beyond the interchangeable norms of the industry.

Neil’s insights highlight the transformative potential of cultural understanding in user research, offering researchers a valuable lens to navigate the ever-evolving landscape of product experiences.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

- The importance of adopting a cultural lens in user research to achieve breakthroughs

- The concept of the "wind tunnel effect" and its impact on product development

- Examples from brands like Pinterest, showcasing the power of cultural understanding in shaping user experiences

- The dialogue mapping technique for evaluating how brands communicate certain themes and how people perceive them

Quick Reference Guide:

[0:11] - Lou’s introduction of Neil Barrie

[3:03] - A discussion on the wind tunnel effect in research

[4:24] - Frameworks for understanding culture

[5:41] - Examples from Pinterest

[11:29] - Plug for Advancing Research 2024

[13:23] - The tools of a brand strategy expert

[17:18] - One challenge, multiple perspectives

[19:29] - Reconciling disconnects in research

[22:00] - The qualities needed for this type of research

[24:13] - Neil’s gift for the audience

Resources and Links from Today's Episode:

Advancing Research 2024, New York City, March 25-27, 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/

A Colorful View From the Top – a book featuring candid interviews with luminaries of color who made it to the top in various fields. https://www.amazon.com/Colourful-View-Top-Twenty-One-Extraordinary/dp/1408715791/

The Deluge by Stephen Markley https://www.amazon.com/Audible-The-Deluge/dp/B0B4YTWP7K/

Author, researcher, speaker, and frequent Rosenfeld Review guest Steve Portigal joins Lou for a chat on the state of the user research industry – where we’ve been, where we are, and where we’re headed. If the field of research was once a lonely desert, today it’s a jungle. It was once a field where researchers could get lost and forgotten. Today, the field is teaming with life—so much so that you could get eaten alive.

Gleaning lessons from the past, Steve doesn’t want us to forget the desert. But he has no desire to return there.

In his chat with Lou, they look back, and they look ahead. They discuss shifts in community and networking, and how research agencies are being replaced by in-house research teams. Finally, the two discuss Steve’s role in the upcoming, in-person Advancing Research conference in Queens, New York.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

How the world of user research has evolved over the last 25 years from a widely-respected industry expert

How the research industry has shifted from agency-based work to in-sourcing

About Steve’s work, career, and books

About the upcoming, in-person Advancing Research Conference

About Steve’s role in past Advancing Research Conferences

Quick Reference Guide:

[0:00:29] Introduction of Steve

[0:02:50] “Dog fooding”, preparation, and collaboration that happens before conferences

[0:09:30] Comparing the user research field and community now to how it was 25 years ago.

[0:16:22] The evolution of networking, connections, and community

[0:23:09] Shifts and pivots Steve has seen over the last 25 years in the user research field

[0:30:32] Writing it down and moving on

[0:35:13] Plug for Advancing Research Conference, including Steve’s role

[0:36:27] Steve’s gift for listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:

Steve Portigal’s Rosenfeld Media books: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/people/steve-portigal/

Advancing Research Conference (March 25-27): https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/

Steve’s website: https://Portigal.com

The Wok: Recipes and Techniques by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt: https://www.amazon.com/Wok-Techniques-J-Kenji-L%C3%B3pez-Alt/dp/0393541215

We hear a lot about diversity, equity, and inclusion, but you probably haven’t heard it like this. Nigerian-born Victor Udoewa, service design lead at the Centers for Disease Control's Office of Public Health Data, Surveillance, and Technology, brings a beautiful perspective that challenges current research methodologies.

Victor introduces the notion of the pluriverse, emphasizing that people inhabit different worlds with unique ways of being and knowing. He draws attention to the diverse perspectives that shape people's beliefs and understanding, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging and bridging these gaps.

He also uses a tree as a metaphor, in which the roots are ways of being, the trunk ways of knowing, and the branches and leaves are methodologies and methods. The metaphor suggests that inclusive research should not just focus on the green parts of the tree but what’s underneath the surface, getting to the very roots of being.

Recognizing the limitations of mainstream research toolkits and critiquing methodologies grounded in Western ways of being, Victor proposes that truly inclusive research goes far beyond having diverse teams study diverse audiences.

This episode is just a taste of Victor’s talk at the upcoming in-person Advancing Research Conference, “Beyond Methods and Diversity: The Roots of Inclusion.”

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

- The Pluriverse Concept: The idea that the world comprises multiple realities, ways of being, and existences

- Standpoint Theory: The idea that individuals at the bottom of a social hierarchy possess a knowledge that is inaccessible to those at higher levels

- Victor’s Tree Metaphor: Roots symbolize ways of being, the trunk represents ways of knowing, and branches and leaves denote methodologies and methods

- Radical Participatory Research: Allowing research to emerge organically from the ways of being of the community involved

Quick Reference Guide:

[00:10] Meet Victor Udoewa

[02:16] About Victor’s talk at Advancing Research

[04:26] The pluriverse and asymmetry of knowledge

[11:20] Social hierarchy, ways of being, and methodology

[12:52] The tree metaphor - getting to the roots

[22:20] Research starting with a way of being

[26:47] Cultural individualism on research

[33:02] Victor’s gift for listeners

Resources and Links from Today's Episode:

Songlines by Bruce Chatwin https://www.amazon.com/Songlines-Bruce-Chatwin/dp/0140094296

Decolonizing Methodologies by Linda Tuhiwai Smith https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/decolonizing-methodologies-9781786998125/

Advancing Research 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/

Harry Max is an executive coach, consultant, and hands-on product design and development leader. He’s also the author of the forthcoming Managing Priorities: How to Create Better Plans and Make Smarter Decisions.

For individuals, teams, and organizations, from managing things, people, places, rules, activities, and projects, Harry’s new book Managing Priorities gets to the heart of how we prioritize and make and implement decisions, whether one-off or events that happen on a regular basis.

Harry uses DEGAP, a design-thinking framework that he says he didn’t invent but discovered, to explain how successful organizations and leaders set, implement, and execute priorities. DEGAP closes the gap between a current state and a desired state:

D - decide

E - Engage (commit to the process)

G - gather (collect information and items to prioritize)

A - arrange (sort and create frameworks)

P - prioritize

Harry and Lou also discuss the importance of flexible thinking (a superpower of designers) when it comes to prioritization, communication, and implementation.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

- How Harry went from technical writer to designer to executive coach to SXSW speaker to author

- What DEGAP is, why it makes a difference when dealing with prioritization, and how Harry discovered it

- Why DEGAP is like a design-thinking framework

- The unique prioritization challenges designers face

- The unique gifts designers bring to addressing prioritization

Quick Reference Guide

[0:00:26] Introduction of Harry

[0:01:59] A discussion on prioritization

[0:04:27] Orders of prioritization

[0:07:39] Distinguishing priorities of the individual, team, and organization – DEGAP

[0:12:26] More about DEGAP at the individual and organizational levels

[0:15:39] Advancing Research 2024, March 25-27

[0:17:13] Review of Harry’s career path

[0:23:47] Unique prioritization challenges for designers

[0:26:25] Harry’s gift for the listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:

Managing Priorities: How to Create Better Plans and Make Smarter Decisions by Harry Max

Advancing Research Conference 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/

4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman https://www.amazon.com/Four-Thousand-Weeks-Management-Mortals/dp/0374159122

Oliver Burkeman’s Maestro course https://www.bbcmaestro.com/courses/Oliver%20Burkeman/time-management

Jorge Arango is an Information architect, author, and educator, and he’s written a new book, Duly Noted, about the age-old practice of notetaking.

If you’re like me, you’ve been taking notes since your school days. Back then, we used notebooks, a Trapper Keeper, and sticky notes – anything that could help us ace a test, remember important tidbits, and consolidate ideas. Notes are an extension of the mind. But it was always a headache to organize them, synthesize them, and recall them at the right time.

Enter the digital age – which tried to improve on the humble art of notetaking, but apps like Notes and Stickies tried to replicate digitally what we were using in the real world. Newer apps like Obsidian let go of real-world metaphors by utilizing three principles: shorter notes, connecting your notes, and nurturing your notes to build a knowledge garden that will serve you for the rest of your life.

If you bring value to the world through your thinking, you have the responsibility to look after your thinking apparatus. Duly Noted will augment, magnify, and extend your capacity to think well. Externalizing your mental processes is one of the most powerful means we have to think better. If used well, the humble note will help you be a better thinker and a more effective human.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

- A history of notetaking tools

- Why notetaking is a personal endeavor

- How digital notetaking tools have evolved

- About Jorge’s new book and how, upon reading it, you just might become a better thinker and increase your effectiveness

Quick Reference Guide

[0:00:12] Introduction of Jorge and his books

[0:01:18] Introduction of Jorge’s new book on taking notes and creating a knowledge garden, Duly Noted

[0:09:47] Books that will make you a better knowledge worker

[0:14:14] Design in Product Conference

[0:15:35] Managing knowledge with computers

[0:26:03] Knowledge as a garden

[0:28:09] On tools for nurturing a knowledge garden

[0:33:08] How Jorge uses AI with Obsidian

[0:36:37] Jorge’s gift for listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:

Information Architecture for the Web and Beyond by Louis Rosenfeld, Peter Morville, and Jorge Arango https://www.amazon.com/Information-Architecture-Beyond-Louis-Rosenfeld/dp/1491911689

Living in Information: Responsible Design for Digital Places by Jorge Arango https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/living-in-information/

Duly Noted by Jorge Arango https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/duly-noted-extend-your-mind-through-connected-notes/

O’Reilly’s book Mind Hacks by Tom Stafford https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/mind-hacks/0596007795/

Tools for Thought by Howard Rheingold www.rheingold.com/texts/tft/

Design in Product Conference, November 29 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/design-in-product/

Roam Research https://roamresearch.com/

Obsidian https://obsidian.md/

The Extended Mind: The Power of Thinking Outside the Brain by Annie Murphy Paul https://anniemurphypaul.com/books/the-extended-mind/

Figure it Out: Getting from Information to Understanding by Karl Fast and Stephen Anderson https://www.amazon.com/Figure-Out-Getting-Information-Understanding-ebook/dp/B085412Q1X

Build a PKG (Personal Knowledge Garden) Workshop https://buildapkg.com

Have you ever felt like the product people want to move too fast? You realize that speed is important, but the quality of the product is going to suffer and the results are going to disappoint.

Or have you ever wished you had a seat at the table during the initial strategy sessions of a new project, rather than being brought in mid-stream?

Do you feel intimidated when talking to the folks on the business and finance side of your organization?

If so, this episode is for you. Ellen Chisa has a background in engineering and an MB. She is a founder, venture capitalist, and partner at boldstart ventures. In short, she has to care about the business side of things. But she also cares about user-oriented product design, and she wants the voices of those in the design space to be heard.

The best place to start, she asserts, might be by listening and learning. Ellen encourages designers to familiarize themselves with their organization’s business models and financials. If you’re feeling squirmy about that prospect, Ellen lays out a workable approach that will put both you and the business analyst at ease.

Ellen’s goal is to help you create more business impact while still feeling like a designer. Ellen will be the opening keynote at the November 29 Design in Product virtual conference.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

- About Ellen Chisa’s background, her current position, and the contribution she’ll make at the Design in Product Conference 2023

- Where Ellen sees the future going—combining APIs with generative AI

- Why designers will benefit from learning about the business and financial side of their organization

- How a designer can approach a business person with ease and curiosity

- A strategy for getting a seat at the table for the initial strategy sessions of a project

Quick Reference Guide

[0:00:20] Introduction of Ellen Chisa and Design in Product Conference

[0:02:22] The double diamond approach to design

[0:04:09] Potent combinations of design tools

[0:05:02] Ellen looking ahead at where technology will go

[0:07:08] Creating more business impact while still feeling like a designer

[0:09:45] How to get a financial toolkit for designers

[0:12:08] Accessible metrics for non-business people

[0:17:32] Design Ops Summit, October 2-6, 2023

[0:19:02] Feeling like a designer and building a coalition

[0:21:12] How to slow the cadence

[0:23:04] Is it better to focus on revenue and growth or derisking?

[0:25:09] Advice for those who feel reserved about approaching others

[0:27:06] Ellen’s gift for listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:

Design in Product Conference 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/design-in-product/

Readwise – save notes from books https://readwise.io/

Obsidian https://obsidian.md/

Today’s interview is just a taste of what you’ll learn at Rosenfeld’s upcoming Design in Product conference—featuring John Cutler’s closing keynote. John is the senior director of product management at Toast, a doodler, a former band member, a UX researcher, and business analyst. He’s also the prolific writer behind “The Beautiful Mess, a Substack newsletter with over 36,000 subscribers, where he writes about cross-functional product management—especially the messy parts.

As someone who likes “messy, creative endeavors” and building things with other people, John enjoys unpacking the complicated parts of collaboration, getting to the heart of messes, and finding a way forward involves much more than identifying patterns.

John finds that each person’s frame or perspective is only one of many. This is one reason the relationship between product and design is a complicated ecosystem, and the whole system—not just a part—needs to evolve together.

In an effort to reach consensus across teams, John notes that it’s easy to fall into the alignment trap where the so-called alignment is fragile and where consensus becomes more valued than a true solution. John encourages listeners to get comfortable with the complicated mess, to truly listen to multiple frames and perspectives while holding onto their own, and then to roll up their sleeves and explore a way forward together.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

About John’s background and his brief stint in a band that opened for others

About the upcoming Design in Product conference

About the messiness of product development and problem-solving

About avoiding the traps of alignment and over-simplification

Quick Reference Guide

[0:00:24] Introduction of John Cutler and Design in Product 2023, and the back story behind “The Beautiful Mess”

[0:05:01] Patterns in messes

[0:10:23] The relationship between product and design

[0:14:11] Dealing with varying work speeds and perspectives

[0:20:32] Design Ops Summit, October 2-6, 2023

[0:21:45] The alignment trap and the simplification trap

[0:30:50] A new metaphor for looking at teams in organizations

[0:34:04] John’s special words for listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:

Design in Product 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/events/

The Beautiful Mess, John Culter’s Substack https://cutlefish.substack.com/

Images of Organization by Gareth Morgan https://www.amazon.com/Images-Organization-Gareth-Morgan/dp/0761906320/

While we’ve been developing design systems for years, we’re only just now learning how to create systems that are successful and sustainable. Dan Mall is the author of the soon-to-be released Design That Scales: Creating a Sustainable Design System Practice, which explores the cultural elements that contribute to sustainable design systems.

Not surprisingly, it’s usually pain that motivates change. In fact, companies occupying the number one spot in their respective markets usually have the least incentive to change. As the saying goes, “Number two tries harder.” But even in the most-ready-for-change scenarios, design systems sit, at best, at a third level of priority. Dan asserts that the challenge is to approach design systems as a byproduct of the products and features that bring customers value. Otherwise, design systems will always be on the backburner.

Dan and Lou discuss tricky topics around design systems:

- Designers’ fear of job loss to design systems.

- As we move toward sustainable design systems, who should make the decisions? Who does what and when?

- How to approach design systems in a sustainable way.

- The best way for product and systems teams to collaborate.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

- Why culture, rather than product maturity, will determine whether design systems are successful

- How to address fears of job loss as a result of design systems

- How to keep people motivated through a systems change

- How product and design teams can work together efficiently

- How design systems have changed over time

- The role of governance in systems change

- Why following precedent within your company will get you farther faster

Quick Reference Guide

[0:00:32] Introduction of Dan Mall and his book Design that Scales – Creating a Sustainable Design System Practice

[0:04:49] On reaching cultural alignment

[0:07:01] What prompts design systems change

[0:09:26] When jobs feel threatened

[0:12:21] Cultural signs and markers of design system success

[0:16:59] November 29th, 2023 – Design in Product Conference

[0:18:20] On governance and sustainability

[0:24:44] On collaboration between product and design teams

[0:27:33] The evolution of design systems for ICs

[0:30:35] Design Systems University

[0:32:38] Dan’s gift to listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:

Design in Product Conference on November 29, 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/design-in-product

Design Systems University https://designsystem.university/

The Useful School https://usefulschool.com

Believe it or not, Steve Portigal’s UX research classic Interviewing Users came out ten years ago, back in 2013. A few things about user research have changed since then, to put it mildly, so we at Rosenfeld did two things: we convinced Steve to write a second edition (coming out October 17), and to join us on the Rosenfeld Review to discuss all the things that have changed.

In addition to being an author, Steve is a user researcher, consultant, and teacher. He helps companies grow their businesses, culture, and brands by interviewing users. He also helps companies build more mature in-house research practices.

Having been on both sides of the interviewing process – as both interviewer and interviewee – Steve can empathize with both roles. Over the last decade, he has seen user research evolve from a focus on consumer products to company culture and supportive technologies in the B2B space.

Effective research, in addition to data gathering, involves analysis and synthesis. Steve defines analysis as breaking bigger things into smaller things and synthesis as putting what was broken down back together into a new framework, or insight. This is where the magic of research happens. A chapter dedicated to the art of analysis and synthesis is one of the profound additions to this latest edition of his book.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

- About Interviewing Users and what’s new in the second edition

- About Steve’s work as a researcher, author, and consultant and how his work has shifted over the last decade

- Changes in the research field and why most of us are researchers to one degree or another, even if it’s not in your title or job description

- How analysis and synthesis are different and why both are needed for insights

- About the “We already knew that” response many researchers get and what it really means

Quick Reference Guide

[0:00:19] Introduction of Steve Portigal

[0:04:30] Experience on both sides of the interview process

[0:08:06] Shifts in language and jargon Steve has noted over the last decade

[0:12:13] The evolution of user research – less with consumers and more within businesses or B2B

[0:15:10] Speculation on where the leading edge of user research will be – or perhaps more importantly, who will be doing it – in another 10 years

[0:19:02] Rosenfeld Media Communities

[0:21:17] What’s new in the 2nd Edition version of Interviewing Users – analysis, synthesis, and insights

[0:28:38] “We already knew that” phenomenon that researchers often encounter

[0:32:20] Steve’s gift for listeners

Resources and links from today’s episode:

Interviewing Users (2nd edition) by Steve Portigal https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/interviewing-users-second-edition/

Doorbells, Danger, and Dead Batteries: User Research War Stories by Steve Portigal https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/user-research-war-stories/

“How-to with John Wilson” on HBO https://www.hbo.com/how-to-with-john-wilson

Sahibzada Mayed and Lauren Lin will be speakers at the upcoming DesignOps Summit on October 2-4, 2023. Their talk, “Cultivating Design Ecologies of Care, Community, and Collaboration,” will showcase the intersection of care-centeredness and design operations.

Lauren has wanted to be a designer since she was in third grade. What kind of designer? An “everything” designer! From a young age, she embraced the idea that “you can design anything” from fashion to environments to moods and feelings. Today she employs ethical research practices and co-design to shift power and amplify youth voices, design toys, and bring play into her work at Ideo Play Lab.

Mayed has a social service and social impact background. Through a community-oriented storytelling approach, they co-lead strategy and research at Cause and Affect, a relational design consultancy in Canada.

Lauren and Mayed’s partnership began with conversations and exploration about what they could do to shift power dynamics and create more cohesive and engaging designs for all. The biggest hindrance, say Lauren and Mayed, is power hierarchies. Design leaders need to critically think about social identities, institutional positions, and other complexities and dimensions. How power shows up in our practices is always shifting and changing, and decentralizing power has to be an ongoing and emergent process.

And it all starts with ideas and conversations. Mayed and Lauren have found that speculative design is a powerful way to reflect on the “now” and dream about what the future could look like. All real-world shifts begin with ideas, relationships, and conversations. These elements are at the heart of design.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

- About Lauren and Mayed’s backgrounds

- How their partnership came about

- About the talk titled “Cultivating Design Ecologies of Care, Community, and

- Collaboration” that they will deliver at October’s DesignOps Summit

- About power hierarchies in design and what design leaders can do to help decentralize power

- About the role and potential of speculative design

Quick Reference Guide

[0:00:19] Introduction of Sahibzada Mayed and Lauren Lin

[0:01:03] Mayed and Lauren’s backgrounds

[0:05:53] The working partnership between Mayed and Lauren

[0:08:45] Power hierarchies and design

[0:11:56] The DesignOps leader’s role

[0:15:26] Alternative means of engagement

[0:18:36] DesignOps Summit, October 2-6, 2023

[0:19:59] A care-centered approach to the future through establishing patterns

[0:24:37] Mayed and Lauren’s gifts for the audience

Resources and links from today’s episode:

Ideo Play Lab – https://ideoplaylab.com/

Cause + Affect – https://causeandaffect.com/

Planet Justice Textbook from Slow Factory – https://shop.slowfactory.earth/products/planet-justice-textbook

“The Mind-Body Check for Radical Research” Google doc - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OBViDEMBh9lYndX-_gNI_5LNMPfMFhCA-Mek6M-VnGI/edit

DesignOps Assembly - https://www.designopsassembly.com/