Rough Drafts

Jeffrey Lawrence is a professor at Rutgers University, teaching 20th and 21st century American and Latin American literature courses, and writing in both English and Spanish. Jeffrey starts with a sense of his intellectual trajectory, then he talks about the influence of studying Spanish and traveling Latin America and the role of sports in his journey. They explore this latter point through his piece on David Foster Wallace, and think through how understanding sport can be a way of thinking through other things, particularly an academic or writer’s life. Sport is a particular avenue in Jeffrey’s view to think about merit and meritocracy, and they discuss these contours through various historical and contemporary figures. Their conversation pivots to a focus on charisma and how it complicates horizontalism with Jeffrey offering reflections from #OccupyWallStreet. Jeffrey and Luke offer particular critiques of contemporary literature and the structures publishing might put on folks based on identity. Would Alice Walker’s Meridian or James Baldwin’s Another Country be published today? How have figures like Toni Morrison and James Baldwin become representative or meme-ified, such that it makes it hard to talk about their actual views? Maurice asks Jeffrey about writing in English and Spanish, and more about his most recent novel El Americano. Their conversation concludes with reflections on the transnational quality of social movements and the tendency to "Monday morning quarterback” or the hesitance to satirize left-wing social movements. You can find more about Jeffrey on his Substack, Avenue of the Americas. 

Notes

Meridian by Alice Walker (1976)

Luke and Maurice interview Kendre Thomas, an educator and lifelong resident of Houston, Texas. Maurice asks Kendre about what it was like to grow up in Houston in the 2000s and 2010s, and what it meant to leave home for school (4:40), and he shares what it meant for him to grow up in a matriarchal family, and the education pathway programs that supported his trajectory to college. Maurice asks Kendre about what it meant to go from the south to a school in the north (10:44), and vice versa, what it meant to return to Houston from the north  (14:12). Luke and Maurice reflect on their “Welcome to Houston” moment on the bus, and relate it to preliminary reflections on a recent trip to the Civil Rights Museum in Memphis. Collectively, they think about the unique anti-Black aspects of Houston, including reflections on the use of the n-word by non-Black people (25:26). They then turn to a conversation about education in Houston, the impact of AI and its relationship to the so-called literacy crisis. (36:48). Kendre offers his perspective teaching at an all boys school in computer science for 9th-11th graders, and how that’s changed cheating, reading, critical thinking, and more. They then turn to a conversation about social media addiction, the psychological effects of isolation, and the consequences of passive consumption (47:58). Kendre offers educators some ways he’s adapted his classroom to the changing technological and pedagogical demands of the moment. The conversation concludes with some talk about Kendre’s recent foray into film criticism, reflecting on his favorite horror films, his feelings on Sinners (58:22), and the portrayal of toxic parenthood and masculinity in 28 Years Later. They wrap up with Kendre’s reflection about what it means to be American at 250. Find more about Kendre on his tik-tok where he covers gaming content–everything but sports games! : @tesarcos_gaming

Notes 

BbyMutha, “The Mutha of Tears” (2018)

In this episode, the Rough Drafts boys head back up to Brooklyn to talk with Ross Barkan, a writer and editor of the Metropolitan Review magazine, to talk about his novel, Colossus. In the interview, they talk about his inspiration for setting Colossus in a small Michigan town as a native New Yorker. Later on, Ross talks about class dynamics in small American towns (6:23) and how public schools are less segregated by class (9:45) in rural areas. The conversation moves to a discussion about how gentrification and development exists even in small towns like the fictionalized town of Pine Haven, Michigan (16:36). Ross ends up talking then about balancing his work as a political journalist with his work as a fiction writer. (23:16) He talks also about how the worlds of literature and journalism have bifurcated in our current era. (24:25). Briefly, he discusses his run for office and having Zohran Mamdani as his campaign manager (31:48). Finally, Maurice asks Ross about his opinions on America 250. Ross talks in depth about histories of racism and the need for progress and optimism (37:25). Read more from Ross on his Substack Political Currents at https://rosselliotbarkan.com/. His novel Colossus is out and available wherever you get your books! 

Notes: 

Talia Pockhai is an art advisor and writer who lives in London. She operates her own art advising business, I&I Worldwide. In this episode of Rough Drafts, Luke and Maurice travel to Manhattan to interview Talia about art. She talks about the most recent Venice Biennale (5:45) and the boom in portraiture as a form (9:50). Later on, Maurice asks a question about art mentors, which comes from the bell hooks book, Art of My Mind. Talia talks about her neighbor, Laurie Sims (19:15), and her initial forays into the art world. The conversation ends up going to a discussion of cultural appropriation (25:30) and how that relates to both art and literature. Finally, the conversation goes to her art writing and art business. Talia gives suggestions for young art collectors (38:10) and why it’s critical to support avant-garde artists early in their careers. We talk about how Black artists' labor often for years and die in obscurity (40:50). 

Find Talia on Instagam @2.pock and @i.and.i.worldwide

Notes: 

Howardena Pindel: Off the Grid by Talia Pockhai 

Dr. Theresa Runstedtler is a historian and Chair of Critical Race, Gender, and Culture Studies at American University. She is the author of two books Black Ball: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Spencer Haywood, and the Generation that Saved the Soul of the NBA (2023), and Jack Johnson, Rebel Sojourner: Boxing in the Shadow of the Global Color Line (2012). Dr. Runstedtler talks about her intellectual trajectory; her book on Jack Johnson is a pivotal intervention in the misleading belief amongst some historians of an emergence of wider Black global consciousness as preceding WWI. She talks about reading the “white press against the grain” (23:45),

Blake Parker is a multi-hypenate artist based in New York City who joins the pod in a wide-ranging conversation about his journey and creative process (2:56). He cites early influences in his Soundcloud journey such as Hannah Diamond’s work, and his favorite rappers. Blake shares his critique of so-called corny/cheesy rap, citing specific artists who are corny, and those who get a pass. They then discuss how Blake’s first album Cairo comes together, when he knows a project is complete, and how he navigates streaming services with analog forms of distribution (13:33). He talks about thinking about content creation as an art, reframing it to navigate its opportunities as well as its challenges. Blake shares about his listening practice (38:23), which includes listening to music videos for music, and amplifying platforms like Soul Seek. They wrap up the conversation with Blake sharing his perspective on living in the Socialist Republic of New York City under the reign of Zohran Mamdani (45:43), and his creative influences beyond music.

Find Blake on Instagam @earnestblackmale

Notes

Amazing Spider-Man: Beyond

Ice City Maroon is a Muslim poet and rapper who joins the pod to talk about his debut book, Quilombo. The conversation begins with a discussion of his inspiration on the title and the project more broadly centering new Afrikan resistance. Ice then talks about his process. Throughout the conversation, Ice City sits with the grief he’s experienced from the gentrification and passing of loved ones (10:25). He gives insight into the archive he draws on throughout his book, particular the book’s photographs (23:33). Luke notes in one of these photos the space that intergenerational friendships between men hold (32:30) and Ice goes on to note how these intergenerational relationships formed him and other men in his community. Maurice asks him about the differences between when his words are on the page and when he performs his work (37:06). Ice talks about not being a traditionally trained musician and how it impacts his process, citing influences like billy woods. The conversation concludes with some reflections on the possibilities for future change outside nonprofits and moderate reforms, and commentary on Zendaya’s The Drama. 

Find IG on @icecitymaroon and buy his book Quilombo: shadedspace.bigcartel.com 

Notes

Darius Simpson, You’ll Never Catch Me

On this episode of Rough Drafts, the Rough Drafts boys interview writer and translator Mordecai Martin in Baltimore. This interview took place while they were in town for the AWP Conference. Mordecai talks to them about his Yiddish translation work specifically around the literature from 1880-1945 and how that relates to family history with his great-grandfather Julius. Mordecai talks about a novel in progress he’s been working on called Keep Reading Said the Dead Man which features both a frame narrative and a translation of a Yiddish detective story called A House on Staten Island. This prompts Luke to ask questions about the intersection between fiction and anti-zionist Jewish organizing (19:10) as it relates to the project. Eventually, there’s a discussion about political zionism (31:45) and how it related to the broader Jewish Left back in the day. We finally talk a bit about Mexico City and Mordecai’s move there (49:56) as it relates to some of his work with translation. To read more of Mordecai’s work, check out his website and his Substack Fartaytsht un Farbesert: Thoughts on translation and craft. 

Notes and Sources: 

Mordecai Martin Translates William Gropper : https://anmly.org/ap38/mordecai-martin-translates-william-gropper/ 

Season 2 Premiere! Ant is an educator and organizer from West Philly. Reflecting on a recent journey to New Orleans, Ant shares the albums and songs that he’s been listening to, including “Fallen Soldiers” by G Herbo,” (9:30), “By the Grace of God” by Clipse (27:45) and “Not In the Whip” By Big Krit (42:38). What does it mean to listen to albums in the age of the “15 second clip”? (3:30) When folks listen to music more with their eyes re: tik-tok, than they do full albums? What does it say about our consumption practices? Ant pushes back on the “fast food consumption” of music, especially music that is meant to honor the dead. They share critiques of how Black men’s pain is consumed, even by other Black men. They also talk about survivor’s guilt (34:00), what it means to honor the sacrifice of their ancestors, the loss of third spaces and the right to the city (49:16). 

Notes and Sources:

21 Savage and G Herbo, “Code of Honor”

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Hosts: Luke McGowan-Arnold and Maurice Rippel

Produced by Aliyah Dominique Jefferies in collaboration with Baltimore Ave Productions

Mixed by Jules Siler

Music Composition: Blake Parker

Content Manager: Dimo Ortiz.

This podcast wouldn’t be possible without the support of the People’s Media Fund and The Neighborhood Martial Arts Project.

On this episode of Rough Drafts, L and M interview political cartoonist Ben Passmore about his newly released graphic novel Black Arms to Hold You Up, a book about Black armed struggle histories in the United States. L introduces Ben at the beginning of the episode and talks about his involvement as a researcher for the book. Ben talks about inserting himself into the novel (15:55) as a character in relation to Black radical histories. The conversation also touches on humor in the graphic novel when writing about Black radical histories with a respect and reverence (24:45). M asks Ben about his artistic process, panels and inspirations in regard to the graphic novel (30:30). Finally, Ben talks about white readership and career opportunities as a Black author (48:08). Ben has an upcoming release event on October 9th at Making Worlds in West Philadelphia. You can buy the book wherever books are sold. Follow him at @daygloayhole on Instagram and Patreon. 

Notes and Sources: 

Maus by Art Spiegelman (mentioned by Ben early in the episode)

Letter from a Stone Mountain Jail:

https://thenib.com/letter-from-a-stone-mountain-jail/

Your Black Friend: 

https://www.silversprocket.net/your-black-friend/