Rough Drafts

Talia Pockhai is an art advisor and writer who lives in London. She operates her own art advising business, I&I Worldwide. In this episode of Rough Drafts, Luke and Maurice travel to Manhattan to interview Talia about art. She talks about the most recent Venice Biennale (5:45) and the boom in portraiture as a form (9:50). Later on, Maurice asks a question about art mentors, which comes from the bell hooks book, Art of My Mind. Talia talks about her neighbor, Laurie Sims (19:15), and her initial forays into the art world. The conversation ends up going to a discussion of cultural appropriation (25:30) and how that relates to both art and literature. Finally, the conversation goes to her art writing and art business. Talia gives suggestions for young art collectors (38:10) and why it’s critical to support avant-garde artists early in their careers. We talk about how Black artists' labor often for years and die in obscurity (40:50). 

Find Talia on Instagam @2.pock and @i.and.i.worldwide

Notes: 

Howardena Pindel: Off the Grid by Talia Pockhai 

Dr. Theresa Runstedtler is a historian and Chair of Critical Race, Gender, and Culture Studies at American University. She is the author of two books Black Ball: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Spencer Haywood, and the Generation that Saved the Soul of the NBA (2023), and Jack Johnson, Rebel Sojourner: Boxing in the Shadow of the Global Color Line (2012). Dr. Runstedtler talks about her intellectual trajectory; her book on Jack Johnson is a pivotal intervention in the misleading belief amongst some historians of an emergence of wider Black global consciousness as preceding WWI. She talks about reading the “white press against the grain” (23:45),

Blake Parker is a multi-hypenate artist based in New York City who joins the pod in a wide-ranging conversation about his journey and creative process (2:56). He cites early influences in his Soundcloud journey such as Hannah Diamond’s work, and his favorite rappers. Blake shares his critique of so-called corny/cheesy rap, citing specific artists who are corny, and those who get a pass. They then discuss how Blake’s first album Cairo comes together, when he knows a project is complete, and how he navigates streaming services with analog forms of distribution (13:33). He talks about thinking about content creation as an art, reframing it to navigate its opportunities as well as its challenges. Blake shares about his listening practice (38:23), which includes listening to music videos for music, and amplifying platforms like Soul Seek. They wrap up the conversation with Blake sharing his perspective on living in the Socialist Republic of New York City under the reign of Zohran Mamdani (45:43), and his creative influences beyond music.

Find Blake on Instagam @earnestblackmale

Notes

Amazing Spider-Man: Beyond

Ice City Maroon is a Muslim poet and rapper who joins the pod to talk about his debut book, Quilombo. The conversation begins with a discussion of his inspiration on the title and the project more broadly centering new Afrikan resistance. Ice then talks about his process. Throughout the conversation, Ice City sits with the grief he’s experienced from the gentrification and passing of loved ones (10:25). He gives insight into the archive he draws on throughout his book, particular the book’s photographs (23:33). Luke notes in one of these photos the space that intergenerational friendships between men hold (32:30) and Ice goes on to note how these intergenerational relationships formed him and other men in his community. Maurice asks him about the differences between when his words are on the page and when he performs his work (37:06). Ice talks about not being a traditionally trained musician and how it impacts his process, citing influences like billy woods. The conversation concludes with some reflections on the possibilities for future change outside nonprofits and moderate reforms, and commentary on Zendaya’s The Drama. 

Find IG on @icecitymaroon and buy his book Quilombo: shadedspace.bigcartel.com 

Notes

Darius Simpson, You’ll Never Catch Me

On this episode of Rough Drafts, the Rough Drafts boys interview writer and translator Mordecai Martin in Baltimore. This interview took place while they were in town for the AWP Conference. Mordecai talks to them about his Yiddish translation work specifically around the literature from 1880-1945 and how that relates to family history with his great-grandfather Julius. Mordecai talks about a novel in progress he’s been working on called Keep Reading Said the Dead Man which features both a frame narrative and a translation of a Yiddish detective story called A House on Staten Island. This prompts Luke to ask questions about the intersection between fiction and anti-zionist Jewish organizing (19:10) as it relates to the project. Eventually, there’s a discussion about political zionism (31:45) and how it related to the broader Jewish Left back in the day. We finally talk a bit about Mexico City and Mordecai’s move there (49:56) as it relates to some of his work with translation. To read more of Mordecai’s work, check out his website and his Substack Fartaytsht un Farbesert: Thoughts on translation and craft. 

Notes and Sources: 

Mordecai Martin Translates William Gropper : https://anmly.org/ap38/mordecai-martin-translates-william-gropper/ 

Season 2 Premiere! Ant is an educator and organizer from West Philly. Reflecting on a recent journey to New Orleans, Ant shares the albums and songs that he’s been listening to, including “Fallen Soldiers” by G Herbo,” (9:30), “By the Grace of God” by Clipse (27:45) and “Not In the Whip” By Big Krit (42:38). What does it mean to listen to albums in the age of the “15 second clip”? (3:30) When folks listen to music more with their eyes re: tik-tok, than they do full albums? What does it say about our consumption practices? Ant pushes back on the “fast food consumption” of music, especially music that is meant to honor the dead. They share critiques of how Black men’s pain is consumed, even by other Black men. They also talk about survivor’s guilt (34:00), what it means to honor the sacrifice of their ancestors, the loss of third spaces and the right to the city (49:16). 

Notes and Sources:

21 Savage and G Herbo, “Code of Honor”

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Hosts: Luke McGowan-Arnold and Maurice Rippel

Produced by Aliyah Dominique Jefferies in collaboration with Baltimore Ave Productions

Mixed by Jules Siler

Music Composition: Blake Parker

Content Manager: Dimo Ortiz.

This podcast wouldn’t be possible without the support of the People’s Media Fund and The Neighborhood Martial Arts Project.

On this episode of Rough Drafts, L and M interview political cartoonist Ben Passmore about his newly released graphic novel Black Arms to Hold You Up, a book about Black armed struggle histories in the United States. L introduces Ben at the beginning of the episode and talks about his involvement as a researcher for the book. Ben talks about inserting himself into the novel (15:55) as a character in relation to Black radical histories. The conversation also touches on humor in the graphic novel when writing about Black radical histories with a respect and reverence (24:45). M asks Ben about his artistic process, panels and inspirations in regard to the graphic novel (30:30). Finally, Ben talks about white readership and career opportunities as a Black author (48:08). Ben has an upcoming release event on October 9th at Making Worlds in West Philadelphia. You can buy the book wherever books are sold. Follow him at @daygloayhole on Instagram and Patreon. 

Notes and Sources: 

Maus by Art Spiegelman (mentioned by Ben early in the episode)

Letter from a Stone Mountain Jail:

https://thenib.com/letter-from-a-stone-mountain-jail/

Your Black Friend: 

https://www.silversprocket.net/your-black-friend/

What does war mean in the context of the 21st century? How has 9/11 and the so-called War on Terror shaped American life? And, what do the conflicts of the future look like? 

M reflects on his brief stint at the United States Military Academy, and L shares about the military’s influence on the manosphere. They think about the role of technological innovations like drones, artificial intelligence, and robots, as well as present-day conflicts such as Russia-Ukraine, and the formidability of non-state actors in Myanmar and Hamas (18:30). They further reflect on the military’s relationship with shaping national pride and identity, tracing the shift away from the draft to a professionalized military with family ties (35:30). They conclude by asking what war will look like when it is brought against the state’s own citizens, with particular attention to the roles National Guards may play (44:00). 

Notes and Sources

*This episode was recorded in October 2024; since then, the U.S. armed forces under Pete Hegseth have banned affirmative action at service academies *

“America Isn’t Ready for the Wars of the Future,” Mark A. Milley and Eric Schmidt, https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/ai-america-ready-wars-future-ukraine-israel-mark-milley-eric-schmidt?utm_medium=social

“Barack Obama doubles US troop levels for War against ISIS in Iraq” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/07/obama-doubles-us-troop-levels-iraq-isis 

Frederic Jameson, “An American Utopia: Dual Power and the Universal Army” https://archive.org/details/americanutopiadu0000jame 

“Megacities and Urban Warfare in the 21st Century: The City as Cemetery of Revolutionaries and Resources”  https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2189&context=jss

“Robot-delivered lethal explosive in Dallas police standoff was a first, experts say” https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/robot-delivered-lethal-explosive-in-dallas-police-standoff-was-a-first-experts-say 

“The U.S. Military’s Recruiting Crisis” https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/02/10/the-us-militarys-recruiting-crisis

What is a parasocial relationship, and have you ever been in one? In this episode, Luke and Maurice invite Dimo back to the pod to define and share stories about their primary social relationships (with references to One Direction, Frank Ocean, Bob Dylan and Tyler the Creator). They break down the historical evolution of parasocial relationships–mediated by different medium forms such as radio, television, and social media–as well as the various types of parasocial relationships, including fictophilia (26:00). The group also discusses the impact of parasocial relationships in the political sphere, including its impact on Zohran Mamdani’s primary victory in the New York City mayoral race. Throughout the episode they return to the affective registers of entitlement and sincerity that influence our seeking out of parasocial relationships.

Notes and Sources:

Arthur C. Brooks, “Parasocial Relationships Are Just Imaginary Friends for Adults” 

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2023/04/parasocial-relationships-imaginary-connections-fans-celebrities/673645/ 

Monique Judge, “What we should leave behind: Parasocial relationships with celebrities”: 

https://andscape.com/features/snoop-dogg-trump-inauguration-parasocial-relationships/ 

National Geographic, “What are parasocial relationships doing to our brains?”

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/parasocial-relationships-social-media 

The (not so) Simple Life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WAavEUyxMg 

Being Bobby Brown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS4u3896mdk 

Free Britney:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GegdKMHnxxY

Major Eason is a PhD student at Harvard University in the Department of Sociology who studies environmental racism and environmental justice. In a wide-ranging conversation with L+M, Major addresses attacks on DEI, the relationship between race, sport and childhood (17:00), and American car culture (31:00). They also discuss the phenomenon of Dr. Umar (42:50), Black Lives Matter Global (48:50), and grifting/black misleadership more broadly. They return to themes of narrative and perception in social movements, as well as the ritual/drama of modern political theater. 

Elijah Anderson, A Place on the Corner (1978):

https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/P/bo3619613.html 

Zandria Robinson, The B-Side of Blackness: https://www.thebeliever.net/the-b-side-of-blackness/

Ellen Cushing, Americans Need to Party More: https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2025/01/throw-more-parties-loneliness/681203/

Common, The Corner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mnKNr2Tiq8

Monaleo, Beating Down your Block: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnMPEfV0bSA

Project Row Houses, Houston TX: https://projectrowhouses.org/