What does war look like on the ground, for the soldiers who go off to fight? What’s it like to be sent into the muddy confusion of a battlefield, asked to lay down your life for your country?

In this episode: two soldiers. A Ukrainian in his 50s and a Russian in his 20s. One of them is still on the battlefield. The other fought for a week, and is now serving a 15 year prison sentence.

These two stories explain a lot about how Russia messed this up, and how Ukraine was far stronger than anyone realised.

Guests:

• Isabella Higgins - ABC News Europe Correspondent
• Sean Rubinsztein-Dunlop - ABC News Investigative Reporter
• Taras Rodtseyvich - Ukrainian Territorial Defence Volunteer; IT Manager
• Dr Paul Dibb - Emeritus Professor of Strategic Studies at ANU; Former Director of the Australian Joint Intelligence Organisation
• Zoya Sheftalovich - contributing editor for POLITICO
• POW interview audio courtesy of Volodymyr Zolkin