Michigan sheriff and Democratic gubernatorial candidate Chris Swanson joins John Avlon to talk about why Democrats' numbers are stuck in the mid-20s, how the party lost working-class trust, and what it would take to win it back. Swanson makes a law-and-order case for Democrats—arguing you can have a “fist of iron and a hand of velvet”—and lays out his data-driven jail reform plan that he says cut violence 97% and reduced recidivism.

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