Sales Reinvented

In his book, “Never Split the Difference” Chris Voss set out to answer the question, “How do you make hostage negotiation principles work in the business world?” In this special episode exchange, Mark Raffan—the host of the Negotiations Ninja podcast—and Chris Voss discuss some of the principles from this book. Don’t miss it! 

Outline of This Episode

• [2:25] Chris’s background in FBI Crisis Negotiation
• [3:55] Why you want a “no” over a “yes”
• [6:57] The two human needs
• [9:04] Chris’s late-night DJ voice
• [12:42] Why you should never downplay empathy
• [17:04] NEVER split the difference
• [20:08] The fallacy of extreme anchoring
• [21:55] How to use calibrated “How” questions
• [23:21] “That’s right” versus “you’re right”
• [25:20] In hindsight: Be assertive—but nice
• [28:10] Don’t take yourself hostage

You want a “No” over a “Yes”

The prevailing theory is that to close a deal, you should be getting little “yeses” throughout a negotiation. Chris thinks that ideal is awful. Instead, he emphasizes that you need to shoot for “no.” Why? 

The little yeses—i.e. “Tie-downs” or “commitments” are a complete violation of human nature. He believes that it is the #1 reason you have long negotiations that go nowhere. After all, it’s “Not a sin to not get the deal. The sin is to take a long time to not get the deal.” He also notes that it’s the biggest toxin for relationships. People will stop responding to you entirely. 

Humans are so tired of being trapped by “yes” that they can’t help but react negatively. They start to think: Where’s this going? What’s the trap? What’s the hook? Why is it important for someone to be able to say no? 

Chris points out that people feel protected and safe when they can say no. Kids have learned that a “no” can be changed to a “yes.” Why? Because after saying no, you’re more willing to listen. “No” is almost always followed by “And…” which you must take advantage of. What comes after the “and?” 

Why you should never downplay empathy

The widespread lie is that “You need to separate emotion and empathy in negotiation.” Yes, you need to be in control of your own emotions—while empathizing with the other party. Chris notes that people used to think emotions were something that could be turned on and off. Now we know that emotions are hard-wired into all decision-making. Neuroscience has shown that without emotions, you can’t make decisions. 

If you want the other side to make a decision, their emotions must be engaged. But how? You have to avoid negative emotions because they slow down the thinking process. Positive emotions make you smarter, so you want to enhance them while eliminating the negative ones. Which emotions do you like? Which are hurting you? You must separate the emotions and put the person on a different path of decision-making.

How each word feels depends on what side of it you’re on. When you hear “yes” you get a shot of dopamine. Hearing it makes you happy. But you forget how uncomfortable the other person feels when forced to say “yes.” 

The fallacy of extreme anchoring

Anchoring is strongly advocated by most people: i.e. “go first and go high.” It’s called the zone of possible agreement. The problem is that it makes deals go away that you otherwise should have made. Chris sees it regularly and he also negotiates regularly. He will NOT high-anchor. They make more deals consistently without anchoring.

If you high-anchor, you hit the occasional home-run—but you don’t get up to bat as much. Or worse, the other side stops pitching to you. It makes potential deals vanish. Those that survive? They’ll be a great deal. But the long-term loss is high. Chris emphasizes that by the time you realize it’s killing your business it will be far too late. 

Why you should NEVER split the difference

According to Chris, compromise and splitting the difference are horrible. Compromise ruins everything. People are either trying to be fair—or they’re a poor judge of distance. What does that mean? People who tell Chris they like “win-win” are high-anchor high-demand people trying to move a goal-line. “Splitting the difference is a mercenary's tool to make you feel like you got treated fairly when they got what they wanted all along...It’s amazing what people will agree to when they feel like they’ve been treated fairly.” If they feel it’s unfair? You’ll get a no.

Be assertive—but nice

Chris—now older and wiser—would tell his younger self to continue to be assertive but do it nicely. Don’t compromise on what you’re trying to get done but be nice. That’s the #1 thing that Chris would change. He was once told by a fellow hostage negotiator, “Dealing with you is like getting hit in the face with a brick.” 

He equated being “nice” to being “weak.” He embraced the mantra of “You may not like me—but you’ll respect me.” There’s a difference between being assertive and being a straight shooter. You want to be a straight shooter—not a blunt-force brick that people have to fend off. 

You can’t just be cold, data-driven, and analytical. If you’re cold and distant, it will infect the other side and they’ll be less emotional. When you’re in a positive frame of mind, salespeople make 37% more deals. You’ll leave money on the table if you’re striving for neutral.

Chris and Mark cover so much more in this episode. Be sure to listen to the whole episode—and subscribe!

Resources & People Mentioned

• Book: Never Split the Difference
• Book: Start with No
• Book: Beyond Winning

Connect with Chris Voss

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Follow on Twitter
• Follow on Facebook
• Black Swan Group
• Text FBIEMPATHY to 22828 to subscribe to The Black Swan Newsletter

Connect With Mark Raffan

• Follow Negotiations Ninja on Twitter: @NegotiationPod
• Connect with Mark on LinkedIn
• Follow Negotiations Ninja on LinkedIn
• Connect on Instagram: @NegotiationPod

More about the Negotiations Ninja Podcast

The Negotiations Ninja podcast, is the number one negotiation podcast on Google Play. On the Negotiation Ninja podcast host Mark Raffan interviews FBI negotiators, influential executives, world leading sales guru’s, legal masterminds and expert communicators to draw out what works in negotiation and what doesn’t work and what we can do better.

Connect With Paul Watts 

• LinkedIn
• Twitter 

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Audio Production and Show notes by PODCAST FAST TRACK https://www.podcastfasttrack.com

Resilience. Resilience is the ability to recover quickly in the face of adversity. Resilience is an attribute or a characteristic that every salesperson must have—or learn. Why is it so important? How does it improve prospecting and lead you to become a better salesperson? In this episode of Sales Reinvented, Justin Zappulla shares how being resilient can positively impact your career. Don’t miss it!

Justin Zappulla’s career has been highlighted by remarkable performance in sales and sales leadership roles. Today, Justin is the Managing Partner at Janek Performance Group and co-author of the popular sales book, Critical Selling, which is considered one of the top authorities and thought leaders in sales training, sales strategy, and overall sales performance improvement.

Outline of This Episode

• [0:57] How are lead generation and prospecting different?
• [2:05] lead generation and prospecting fill your pipeline
• [2:36] Justin’s lead gen and prospecting process
• [4:42] Resiliency is a salesperson’s greatest attribute
• [5:41] The top skills to develop
• [6:54] Top 3 prospecting dos and don’ts
• [9:21] The importance of resiliency

Justin’s lead gen and prospecting process

The most important part is to start with your perfect prospect profile. It helps you identify who to pursue. Then you identify the ways to meet those prospects (online, conferences, networking events, etc.). You then identify a trigger event that is likely to lead to that prospect needing your product or service and track those events. It might be a merger, a new hire, a home purchase, etc. 

Justin emphasizes that you need to create a reason for a prospect to opt-in. What is your lead magnet? What is your offer? It needs to encourage someone to take action. You are exchanging value for information. White papers, free quotes, coupon codes, webinars, etc. can all be great ways to generate leads.

Once you generate leads, you have to nurture them. The idea is to continue to interact with the lead to stimulate interest or action. Those are handed to sales as sales-ready leads. Prospecting is the process of identifying and reaching out to leads to pique interest, qualify them, and start the sales opportunity.

The attributes salespeople need to succeed

The first that comes to mind for Justin is resiliency. As a salesperson, you will get more “nos” than “yeses.” Great prospectors are disciplined and focused. It takes a lot of activity to produce a prospect, so you must stay focused and hungry. He also thinks of “ego”, someone needs to have a competitive mindset.

What are the top skills to work to develop? Justin would start by delivering a great value proposition. You have to pique interest quickly to be successful with prospecting. It needs to be a targeted message to initiate a conversation. Great prospectors have honed those skills. You also need the ability to connect with people, always be networking, and build rapport and trust quickly.

Top 3 prospecting dos and don’ts

Justin shared a total of nine dos and don’ts that have to be shared:

1. Find creative ways to offer value in exchange for information. 
2. Test a lot of activities to see what works. Don’t get stuck in analysis paralysis.
3. Leverage technology and implement smart lead generation processes.
4. Create the perfect prospect profile and a clear definition of who you’re pursuing.
5. Use a multi-channel prospecting process: email, calls, social, events. It needs to be a combination. 
6. Prioritize prospecting. You have to spend time on it. It shouldn’t be something you do when you’re done with everything else.
7. Don’t offer something that fits everyone. 
8. Don’t wing it. Have a plan and system in place.
9. Don’t give up. You always get more nos than yeses, so stay resilient. 

The importance of resiliency

Justin was interviewing someone for a sales position and they were talking about this person's current role. He had found some success in sales—but it took him quite some time. He was selling a software solution for compliance in medical offices and on the road a lot. He made call after call without success. He made 1,649 calls before his first sale. 1,649. 

He was resilient. He wore that number as a badge of honor. It’s what it took for him to learn and find success. He’s now one of the more successful salespeople that Justin has come across. You can’t give up. You never lose until you give up. You keep trying, you notice what works, and keep doing those things. Salespeople fail and fail often. It’s part of the process and what makes you a great seller—and it’s why being resilient is so important.

Connect with Justin Zappulla

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Follow on Twitter

Connect With Paul Watts 

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

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Alice Heiman believes that curiosity is the #1 prospecting and lead generation skills that salespeople need to develop. Curiosity leads to research, which leads to understanding your prospect on a deeper level, which allows you to craft the right message. Alice shares all about her prospecting process in this episode of Sales Reinvented! 

According to Forbes.com, Alice Heiman is among the world’s leading experts on the complex sale. Founder of Alice Heiman, LLC she strategizes with CEOs and sales leadership to grow sales organizations and increase sales profitably. From prospecting to closing, she leads teams to find new business and grow existing accounts.

Outline of This Episode

• [1:00] Lead generation is global + prospecting is sales
• [1:25] Why are lead generation and prospecting important?
• [2:46] Why referrals are the way to go with marketing
• [6:27] Curiosity is the #1 skill to develop
• [9:50] Alice’s top 3 dos and don’ts
• [12:41] Involve your team every step of the way

Alice’s #1 source of leads: referrals

Alice depends on referrals for lead generation. She prefers that. Why? It’s so much easier. Wouldn’t you rather get an introduction than cold-call hundreds of people? Her process begins with making a list of customers and how frequently she talks with them (about what’s going well, what value they are adding, etc.). When you know they are happy and loyal, then you ask them to make an introduction. 

Then she has a list of companies and people that can make introductions, even if they don’t buy from you. She keeps a wishlist of companies she’d love to work with and figures out who to talk to in each of those companies. She will then refer back to her first two lists and question—can anyone make an introduction? Do any of my customers know them? Can any referral sources make an introduction? She always starts with introductions to ideal customers before cold outreach.

If you have to do cold outreach, she recommends doing it in an organized fashion. Alice likes the 5 x 5 x 5 x 5 method. What is it? You take 5 companies that you are interested in. Then you find 5 people that would be involved in decision-making and figure out the best way to reach them. You have to craft the right messaging. You work for 5 weeks to get their attention and land an appointment. Once you have done that, put them in the recycling pile and move on to another company. This is only after exhausting every effort to try and reach them. 

Curiosity is the #1 skill to develop

Alice believes a key skill to develop is the ability to be a better researcher. You need to learn how to be a great researcher and look for the right words, ideas, and trigger events to reach out to a prospect. If you go out with a message that doesn’t generate interest, you won’t get a conversation.

You also need to understand what the day in the life of your prospect(s) looks like. If you don’t understand that, you may bring the wrong information at the wrong time. If you sell to CMOs, what is it like in their every day? What are their financial concerns? People concerns? Business concerns? What are they trying to accomplish each day? What’s going on at their company that’s impacting them? What initiatives are they working on? Is their company laying people off? Are they hiring? Alice emphasizes that you have to understand what is going on in their life. 

She recently heard of a CMO that had their entire marketing team furloughed. You should know things like that before you get on the phone with them. That CMO may be distraught. You can talk to your own customers and ask them those questions. You can talk to your own CMO and find out what their days look like. It’s a great way to start understanding the people you will be talking with. 

Involve your team every step of the way

Alice was working on a complex deal selling software to a large company—and the deal stalled. It was complete radio silence for months. So her team got together to brainstorm a strategy to get things moving. They had the CEO of the company in the room. After months of trying to make something happen, he goes “Oh, I know that person.” He could pick up the phone and call that person right then and there. So he did. And the deal started moving again.

How can you prevent that from happening? You have to tell your team what deals you’re working on and the people you’re trying to get an introduction to. If you go on LinkedIn, you can see if someone on your team knows these people. Your own company can be a great source of introductions. Listen to the whole episode for more of Alice’s prospecting and lead generation tips and strategies!

Connect with Alice Heiman

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Follow on Twitter

Connect With Paul Watts 

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Subscribe to SALES REINVENTED

Audio Production and Show notes by PODCAST FAST TRACK https://www.podcastfasttrack.com

Tim Hughes is a firm believer that the world of selling is shifting towards social selling—but not how you think. Tim doesn’t believe in pushing your agenda on social. But he does believe in forming connections and having conversations. How does he craft his social media approach to lead to conversations? How do those conversations lead to sales? Listen to this episode of Sales Reinvented to hear Tim’s amazingly successful strategies. 

Tim Hughes is an expert in social selling and is currently ranked #1 by Onalytica as THE most influential social selling person in the world. He is also Co-Founder and CEO of DLA Ignite and co-author of the bestselling books “Social Selling” and “Smarketing”, both published by Kogan Page.

Outline of This Episode

• [1:06] What is the difference between prospecting and lead generation?
• [1:49] Why are these strategies so important?
• [2:38] Timothy’s prospecting process on social media
• [4:22] Salespeople have to be where their clients are
• [5:58] Tim’s top prospecting dos and don’ts
• [8:34] How to craft a buyer-centric LinkedIn Profile
• [12:18] The power of posting humanized content

Prospecting on social media is the future

Tim doesn’t see prospecting success in interrupting people with advertising, cold-calling, or email. He believes those legacy sales methods are gradually falling away. His ideal method? Social selling. He’s been in business for 4 years and all of their prospecting has been done on social media. You have to have a great profile, proactively grow your network, and offer great content. You can’t hope someone will find you, but must proactively look for them.

You have to be where your clients are, and ⅔ of the world’s working population is active on social media. Over the last quarter, those numbers have grown by 12.5%. Social media usage continues to grow. The idea that your clients aren't on social media isn’t relevant anymore.

Why does Tim love social media? Because it enables you to have conversations. Brochures, webinars, and other tools don’t get you deals. Conversations are what get you deals. So grow your network, create content, and generate conversations. One of Tim’s guys wrote a post about Led Zeppelin and has had 6 C-level calls off a crazy piece of content. 

Tim’s social selling dos and don’ts

Tim emphasizes that you need to have a buyer-centric profile. What are they looking for from you? They don’t care if you’re a quota-crushing salesperson. Secondly, you should grow a network of people that you know. It’s about being remembered and standing out. Connecting with people for the sake of connecting doesn’t give you that relevance. You should also strategically create content that people find engaging, insightful, and educational. It doesn't have to be about your company. Humanized content gets you more engagement than sharing about your company.

Social selling isn’t actually about selling. Tim implores you: do NOT sell on connection requests. You go to a networking event to have conversations, right? You don’t go up and start selling to someone. If you don’t do that with in-person networking, why would you on social networking? Tim gets that everyone has targets to make and pipelines to fill. But you do that by building connections and having conversations—not social selling.

How to craft a buyer-centric LinkedIn Profile

Tim’s first tip is simple: make sure your profile picture is a photograph of you. Secondly, you need a great summary title: don’t make it your “what.” For example, some people say they’re “passionate about digital transformation.” That doesn’t elicit a strong emotional connection from a viewer. 

People are looking for your “why.” If you talk about your why, you’re connecting with someone’s gut feeling. Tim’s summary title says “Should have played Quidditch for England.” It closes business for him. He also has his name translated into Chinese because his first book was translated into Chinese. Doing these things sets him apart and catches people’s attention. 

If you see people who have the title “sales director” your brain lumps them together with every other sales director. If you say something different, the brain sees two different people. It changes your possibility of winning business from 1-in-16 to 1-in-2. 

Make your summary about your why. If you met someone in a bar and had a conversation, what would you find out? When people are looking at your profile, they want to see the human side of you. What are your beliefs? What are you about? When people form connections, they have conversations. When you have conversations, you close deals. 

The power of posting humanized content

One of Tim’s team members posted 3 photos on LinkedIn from a trip with his son. The post talks about how the pandemic has impacted 16-year-olds and it only took him 10 minutes. He’s had 18,000 views, 90 likes, and 20,000 people look at his profile. 20,000 people see what he stands for. People will buy from you, refer you, or share your content on other networks when they feel a deep connection to it. He’s gotten 6 C-level calls from that post. Social is the most proactive way to form relationships in the world today. 

Humanized content gets the most engagement on social. Some people aren’t comfortable with that because they say that LinkedIn isn’t Facebook. But Tim points out that if you were in person with a prospect, you build a relationship by taking them to a meal or a football game. You have conversations about life and family. Why wouldn’t you do the same on social media? You need to build content around what you stand for. Humanized content is the way to get the most engagement. 

Resources & People Mentioned

• Eric Doyle’s LinkedIn Profile

Connect with Tim Hughes

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Follow on Twitter
• DLA ignite

Connect With Paul Watts 

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

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Audio Production and Show notes by PODCAST FAST TRACK https://www.podcastfasttrack.com

Prospecting and lead generation are the lifeblood of sales. You need a consistent flow of fresh prospects at all times to be successful. So you need qualified ideal prospects in your pipeline at all times. Prospecting requires human-to-human interaction, which often requires picking up the phone. Many salespeople see prospecting as a necessary evil and face heavy reluctance to the task at hand. Connie Kadansky strives to change salespeople’s mindsets and help them overcome sales call reluctance to find success.

Connie Kadansky is the President of Exceptional Sales Performance, an international sales coaching practice. She is a recognized expert in identifying and eliminating sales call reluctance, the emotional hesitation to prospect and self-promote. In this episode of the Sales Reinvented podcast, Connie shares her expertise on prospecting and lead generation. Don’t miss it!

Outline of This Episode

• [2:41] Why are prospecting and lead generation important to sales?
• [3:24] Connie’s prospecting and lead generation process
• [4:51] Know the value you offer—and believe it
• [7:13] Skillsets that a salesperson must develop
• [14:02] Why you need to prospect with creativity

Connie’s prospecting and lead generation process

Connie starts by identifying what her ideal prospect looks like and writes down and highlights where she’s willing to deviate. She determines who isn’t an ideal prospect and holds that clearly in her mind. Then she decides how to initiate contact. Connie believes in picking up the phone to introduce yourself. After that, you can follow up with email and LinkedIn. Throughout the process, you need to focus on the value you can create for your prospect. 70% of a sale is engagement and discovering the need of the buyer. In Connie’s world, the human is doing the work of prospecting. 

Attributes that lead to prospecting success

Connie emphasizes that a salesperson needs to know their value with every fiber of their body. You must believe that your product or service is an essential piece of the puzzle for your prospect. She also notes that you have to change your mindset and begin to see prospecting as an adventure. When you do that and pair it with curiosity, you can learn from every single outreach.

Connie knows that salespeople get hit with call reluctance. You need to realize that it isn’t prospecting that’s causing the anxiety—it’s how you’re thinking about it. Don’t call it a cold-call. If you’re prospecting people and organizations who need what you have, don’t get caught up in thinking it’s a cold call. You can “warm” it up rather quickly. Be authentic, have fun, and focus on creating value for them.

She recommends creating a list of who you’re going to prospect the night before. Why? So when you get into the office you are prepared and can get it done early. Make it a priority. Make sure you measure your results: What are you doing well? What do you need to do differently? Have those mechanisms in place so you can get momentum. The best salespeople get into a rhythm and the energy carries them forward.

Connie’s top dos and don’ts to prospect successfully

Connie cannot emphasize enough: you must follow through immediately. Connie had someone email her last week with his name and phone number. She called within 14 minutes and he was delighted. He’s going to become a client. Don’t think it comes across as desperate. If a prospect is reaching out to you, it’s because they need something. Don’t miss out on that. You can get creative with your follow-through. If they don’t respond to a call or an email, leave them a message on LinkedIn. 

You must also always keep your word. Connie keeps something on her desk that says “promises.” So when she’s on a call with a prospect and promises to send them a link, she makes a note, and then sends it. If you don't write it down, it will fall off your radar. Keep listening to hear what her other tips and tricks are.

Why you need to prospect with creativity

Connie works with salespeople to overcome sales call reluctance. Financial advisors must be continuously meeting with new prospects to be successful. So she made a list of 12 financial advisor coaches or thought leaders who work with advisors. She picked up the phone and called 11 and said: “We work in the same industry. We’re not competitors. I have an idea, please give me a call back at your earlier convenience.” 

Three called her back because they were curious about her message. Two of them thought her idea was brilliant. One even said that working with her would help their clients be even more successful in his program, which is what he wanted more than anything. So she’s doing business with him—all because of overcoming sales reluctance and picking up the phone

She learned that you won't get them all—you don’t want them all. You only want the people that are in alignment with what you’re doing. You want the timing to be right. Be creative, let the phone be your ATM. Leave a message that gives them some information. The people that are ready will return the call.

Connect with Carole Mahoney

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Follow on Twitter

Connect With Paul Watts 

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

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Audio Production and Show notes by PODCAST FAST TRACK https://www.podcastfasttrack.com

Historically speaking, lead generation was “throw stuff against the wall” and see what sticks. Now, inbound content marketing has taken the lead. You make great content, people read it and engage with it, they come to your site, and you nurture them through the funnel. But Darryl Praill—the Chief Revenue Officer at VanillaSoft—points out if that’s all you are doing, you’re missing half of the opportunity. Learn how he uses Gartner’s double funnel strategy in this episode of the Sales Reinvented podcast!

Outline of This Episode

• [1:13] The difference between prospecting and lead generation
• [2:48] Prospecting = becoming a better salesperson
• [4:42] Darryl’s prospecting process: a two-funnel methodology
• [8:54] The attributes of a great salesperson
• [12:29] You must develop the skill of social-selling
• [14:02] Top 3 prospecting and lead generation dos and don’ts
• [15:58] Don’t let confidence or ego get in the way

Prospecting allows you to become a better salesperson

Lead generation is a one-to-many strategy. It’s running an email campaign, writing content, hosting a webinar or a podcast, etc. with some intelligence behind your content list. It’s typically a nurturing process where the leads are scored and are deemed marketing qualified, then sales qualified, and passed to sales. Prospecting is very different. You operate with a warm list that’s segmented. You know who you’re selling to, why they should talk to you, and you know everything about them. There is logic and reason behind reaching out to them. 

Darryl points out that if you don’t prospect, you don’t close any sales. If you want to get paid, you need to do it. Many sales reps are looking for an SDR, a marketing person, etc. to feed you leads so you get to be the closer. But the reality is that you have good days and bad days and you don’t always close. Or, you have fantastic months and you’re making bank. But the next month it’s a desert and you’re twiddling your thumbs. 

But prospecting keeps your pipeline full. It allows you to refine your dialogue and messaging. It allows you to hear new objections and find out what’s affecting your audience. It allows you to learn about your audience and make yourself more relevant to them. Darryl emphasizes that you have to practice your craft to stay relevant, skilled, and capable. 

Darryl’s prospecting process: a two-funnel methodology

Darryl uses the double funnel method from TOPO. It functions two ways: You do traditional lead generation, then you do account-based marketing (ABM). ABM used to be called Target Account Selling (TAS) and was all the rage in the 90s. You say, “I know exactly these 5 accounts I’m going to go after and why.” You know the named accounts and industry accounts to go after. Then you divide and conquer. 

To be successful with this strategy, you have to map them out. You have to know all the operational and executive people associated with each account. ABM is about marketing getting in front of them from a branding point of view. Then you target them with highly personalized content and then sales proactively reaching out to them. 

The biggest challenge is picking the list and knowing why it’s relevant to you. So if you get on a call with them, you can get their attention. If you’re struggling in this process, Darryl recommends calling some of your customers to ask them point-blank “Why did you buy from us? What impact do we make?” You need to understand the value prop you have. 

The attributes of a great salesperson

Darryl believes you have to have a great mindset. You can be book-smart and know the processes and the methodologies, but if you can’t handle rejection then you’re going to fail. Why do you get up every day? Why do you put yourself through the meat grinder? Andrea Waltz has a “Go for No!” strategy where you shoot for a no. You shoot for 10 “nos” an hour and learn to get excited about them. Every no is a step closer to the yes. 

Darryl points out that people connect with people who tell stories. It makes the relationship real and tangible. If you’re reading from a script you will fail. No one will return your calls. But if you can tell a story, it gets people engaged. Then you can have a conversation and do discovery. It’s safe, you’re not a threat, and they’re giving you permission to engage.

What else do you need to do? Block time in your calendar or you will be distracted non-stop. Stick to it and protect that time. Be committed to your craft and committed to prospecting.

You must develop the skill of social marketing

You have to develop the skill of social-selling, which Darryl prefers to call social marketing. It’s the skill of knowing how to engage with your community, how to position yourself as a subject-matter expert, and how to establish credibility. The first thing a prospect will do when they hear from you is Google your company and then head to LinkedIn and check you out. You have to be relevant on social which means being part of the conversation—not just reposting other people’s content. 

When Darryl started at VanillaSoft, he was 50. He wasn’t familiar with LinkedIn. So he hired someone to teach him how to post, when to post, and how to format it. He learned how to engage and when not to engage. It’s a skill you need to have. What are Darryl’s top three dos and don’ts? What story does he share that taught him to build a better process? Listen to the whole episode to hear it all!

Resources & People Mentioned

• TOPO
• BOOK: Go for No!

Connect with Darryl Praill

• me(at)darrylpraill.com
• Connect on LinkedIn
• Follow on Twitter

Connect With Paul Watts 

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

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According to Carole Mahoney, prospecting is one-on-one, high touch, quality communication, and outreach. Lead generation is more one-to-many, general messaging, and top of the funnel. If you want to be proactive and fill your funnel they’re both important. If you’re not prospecting you’re not going after your ideal customer. If you’re not engaging in lead generation you’re not educating, you’re not putting the word out there so people know how you are. But how you do both matters. That is why great content in all of your messaging matters. Carole Mahoney—the founder of Unbound Growth—shares her expertise in this episode of Sales Reinvented.

Outline of This Episode

• [0:50] The difference between prospecting and lead gen
• [1:28] Why both are important to the entire sales funnel
• [2:03] Carole’s lead generation + prospecting process
• [5:26] Attributes or characteristics of a great prospector
• [8:23] Skills salespeople need to develop to succeed
• [10:21] Top 3 dos and don’ts of prospecting and lead gen
• [12:59] Why copywriting and cadence matters

Carole’s lead generation + prospecting process

Carole emphasizes that you have to put out content that attracts the right people. It needs to be about them and their problems. Prospecting is easier when people have heard of your product or service. It also brings opportunities that you may not have considered. 

What is the issue that people are dealing with that you can help with? Where do they start educating themself? That’s where you want to be. You can put out content through speaking engagements, webinars, podcasts, eGuides, checklists, and more. Lead generation can be creating a social media presence and creating your own content like blogs and podcasts. You need to be in front of people that you can help the most. 

If a list of people signs up for your upcoming webinar, you can turn on your prospecting skills and reach out to them one-to-one. What intrigued them? What are they hoping to learn? What questions do they want to be answered? Include those in your webinar. Then you can follow up with them after the webinar. 

Attributes or characteristics of a great prospector

The first and most important thing is to be able to manage your need for approval. If you’re concerned about what people might think, it will be difficult to prospect. It will be difficult to ask questions or push back. People are afraid of putting things out on LinkedIn or blog posts for fear of being heckled. 

Secondly, You need to have a plan and discipline developed around it. You won’t always see immediate results. It may be weeks, months, or even years down the road. You can’t just jump in and expect results. Carole emphasizes that you can’t be a perfectionist. Things will never go exactly as planned. 

Skills salespeople need to develop to succeed

Carole believes most salespeople need to work on their copywriting skills. Sellers often take whatever marketing hands them and sends those into their cadences. They don’t think about what they’re actually saying. But you need to take the marketing message and customize it to who you’re talking to. “Set it and forget it” makes sellers lazy. You need to focus on the quality of your message. Carole notes you should also block time into your schedule to be consistent. You need to develop resilience. It’s paramount to prospecting and lead generation. What are Carole’s top 3 dos and don’ts of prospecting and lead generation? Listen to learn more!

Why copywriting and cadence matters

Carole was working with a client who worked at a SaaS tech company who was struggling to get responses to her cadences. She was trying to move customers from a competitor to her product. But everything she sent out got a very low response rate. So Carole took a look at the first email. It was too long, it was all about her product/service, and she was asking the prospect to take a large leap—all in the first email. No interest or value had been established. 

So Carole asked her to rework it. She wrote something that talked about their results and focused it on her prospects. She saw almost double the response rate and got conversations in the pipeline. She learned that you have to keep it brief, make it all about the prospect, and ask the right questions. Always focus on the potential value for the customer.

Resources & People Mentioned

• BOOK: Grit by Angela Duckworth

Connect with Carole Mahoney

• Unbound Growth

Connect With Paul Watts 

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

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Audio Production and Show notes by PODCAST FAST TRACK https://www.podcastfasttrack.com

Why do you NEED a formal lead generation process? What is Christopher Ryan’s Revenue Machine Blueprint? How can it impact your lead generation, prospecting, and revenue? Christopher is the CEO and founder of Fusion Marketing Partners. As an expert in helping B2B companies grow revenue, Chris leverages his extensive experience to create successful and cost-effective lead-to-revenue frameworks. He shares his expertise in this episode of Sales Reinvented. Don’t miss it!

Outline of This Episode

• [1:15] The difference between prospecting and lead generation
• [1:57] The Revenue Machine Blueprint
• [3:19] Christopher’s ideal prospecting process
• [6:11] The attributes of a great salesperson
• [9:28] The skills to develop to exceed at prospecting
• [11:34] Top 3 prospecting and lead generation dos and don’ts
• [13:52] Why you NEED a formal lead generation process

The Revenue Machine Blueprint

Lead generation and prospecting are the precursors to generating revenue in a B2B environment. They’re an essential part of the process. Chris espouses the Revenue Machine Blueprint, which is a four-step process that every single person goes through to buy something—no matter what the selling medium is. What are the steps?

• They have to become aware of you. 
• They need to be educated about what you offer.
• They need to engage with you in some way.
• They need to get involved in the sales process and become customers.

The “Always be closing” mantra can damage your reputation and your bottom line. Christopher emphasizes that you must be cognizant of moving prospects through the process. 

Christopher’s ideal prospecting process

Christopher follows a “Lead to Revenue” process. It’s a systematic process from awareness all the way to generating revenue. He’s surprised that many large companies still don’t have a lead to revenue process and they just wing it. But if you can’t measure something, you can't improve it. How many inquiries will you generate? How many will turn into leads? How many will turn into opportunities? 

There are 4–7 conversion steps in the revenue generation process. If one part of the process is only operating at 50%, it impacts the output of everything. If you create a process, measure each step, and fix what isn’t working, it can profoundly impact end results.

But Chris believes you also need to differentiate push marketing and pull marketing. One approach is getting people to come to you and converting those people to leads. The other approach is to push and find people. Cold-calling is a form of push marketing. An online search done by a potential customer is pull marketing. You want increased “pull” traffic because it’s less expensive in the long run. 

The attributes of a great salesperson

Chris notes an effective salesperson needs the ability to take no for an answer without feeling personally rejected. For example, an insurance salesperson makes a $500 commission and on average, closes 1 out of 20 leads. They have to hear “no” 19 times. But what if you look at each sales pitch as making $25? A rejection becomes part of the process to get to a yes. 

You also have to leverage contacts. Turn people that you meet online into influencers or advocates for your product or your service—even if they don’t buy themselves. Another attribute is a giving spirit. Focus on serving, not selling. When you adopt that attitude, you can sell more by selling less. It may feel counterintuitive, but it’s true. 

Chris points out that this is another biggie: sales reps must apply the principle of reciprocity. You give something to the prospect without expectation. But when you give without expectation, the prospect feels an obligation to do something for you.

What else? You need to develop domain expertise. You need to have knowledge of the industry, what’s happening in it, how connections are made, and what the newest trends are. You want to understand more about the industry than your prospect so you can become a value-add to them. You want to be a resource—not a nuisance. 

What other attributes and skills should a salesperson embody? What are Christopher’s top 3 dos and don’ts? Listen to learn more!

Why you NEED a formalized lead generation process

15 years ago, Christopher worked in a software company as the CMO. His sales counterpart was very skeptical about implementing a formal lead generation process. They fought over it a lot. They did end up implementing the process. Within one quarter, he made this guy a believer. He’s a close friend and advocate 15 years later. It takes discipline to apply metrics, measure them, and improve them. Sometimes it takes some pain to get to the right thing. You have to be brave and push what you believe in. You must be persistent to get to the goal. 

Resources & People Mentioned

• Bravery: An Underrated Virtue for Chief Marketing Officers

Connect with Christopher Ryan

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Follow on Twitter

Connect With Paul Watts 

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Subscribe to SALES REINVENTED

Audio Production and Show notes by PODCAST FAST TRACK https://www.podcastfasttrack.com

How can a salesperson be a door opener? How can you nail lead generation and prospecting? What do you need to focus on? In this episode of Sales Reinvented, Caryn Copp shares some of her award-winning process—including touching on the 5 Planks of Door-Opening Success. If you’re ready to take your prospecting and lead generation skills to the next level, do not miss this episode! 

Caryn Kopp is the Chief Door Opener® and Founder of Kopp Consulting’s award-winning Door Opener® Service. Caryn’s company lands executive-level prospect meetings for their clients using the skills of experienced business developers and superior sales messaging. Kopp has 2 trademarks in Sales Messaging, she co-authored the best seller, Biz Dev Done Right, she is a top 50 Keynote Speaker and had her first cold calling job when she was 11! 

Outline of This Episode

• [1:04] The difference between prospecting and lead generation
• [3:04] Why are both important to the sales process?
• [5:04] The 5 Planks of Door-Opening Success
• [9:51] The attributes of a great salesperson
• [12:05] The skills salespeople need to develop
• [14:02] Caryn’s top dos and don’ts of prospecting 
• [17:10] Why you must be diligent with note-taking

The difference between prospecting and lead generation

Caryn points out that lead generation used to be anything to do with inbound lead generation and prospecting. The terms were used interchangeably. Lead generation has become more of a marketing term. It’s associated with sending out mass emails and getting people to raise their hands. The hand-raisers are then supposed to be sorted. One segment gets a phone call from sales. The others go into a drip campaign to lead them to be hand-raisers or influencers in the future. 

Prospecting is choosing a group of prospects that need to know about you and approaching them. It may start with an email, a phone call, or an introduction from another customer. You’re engaging in a proactive activity to lead to a conversation.

Lead generation softens a prospect so salespeople are contacting people who already have familiarity with the company, service, or offering. Caryn has done outsourced executive-level “door-opening” for over 20 years. They can get the right meetings without lead generation. But it’s more effective with lead generation.

The 5 Planks of Door-Opening Success

Caryn uses lead generation to create awareness with narrow groups of prospects and their influencers. If those leads aren’t ready for a phone call, there needs to be an automated drip campaign to keep them engaged to convert them to being hand-raisers or being influencers. The 5 Planks of Door-Opening Success leads to successful prospecting. If you aren't getting in the right prospects’ doors, you have a problem in one or more of the 5 planks. So what are they?

• You need the right target: 25% of prospects don’t belong on the list. You must choose prospects who feel a sense of urgency (navigating a trigger event), will pay for your services, and find you to be the right solution for them. 
• Plan what you’re going to say. What will get a busy executive to clear their calendar for a meeting with you? Especially if they already have a vendor for the solution you offer. They need to feel like it’s the best decision they’ll make all week.
• Have answers for objections. You will get shut down if you don't nail the 3 P’s of prospects’ objections: pre-think, prepare, and practice. What objections might you face? How do you prepare the answers? Can you have answers ready in a split-second? 
• You need the right door-opener. Some people are great at having a meeting and closing the sale (hunters). Then they are others who are intuitively great at opening the doors. 
• You must execute. Are you the right person to make the calls? Emails? How do you grow the relationship and make a difference? How much time are you spending on generating new revenue and prospecting? An hour or two a week doesn’t cut it.

Caryn believes if you focus on developing and becoming an expert in these 5 planks, you’ll be more successful opening doors, getting leads, and closing sales.

The attributes of a great salesperson

Caryn emphasizes that being successful with prospecting and lead generation takes a certain kind of person. You can get training and be better than you are, but you may never love it. Some people have the DNA for sales. Caryn finds these salesmen and women to have an insatiable curiosity for people. They have the ability to be fully present in conversations. They can pivot without being shut down. People that don’t possess that skill may get a prospect on the phone, but they can’t get to the outcome. It’ll be entered in the CRM as “the prospect wasn’t interested” but it might mean they can’t hold their own in a conversation. They are also maniacally methodical. They have to want to put time into this—which not everyone wants to do. What are the top skills to develop? What are Caryn’s prospecting and lead generation dos and don’ts? Listen to learn more!

Why you must be diligent with note-taking

When Caryn was doing door-opening for other companies, there was one prospect at a pharmaceutical company that shut her down—but not because she wasn’t interested. They were reorganizing and no new vendors were being considered. She wanted to hold off for 6 months. During their conversation, they ended up chatting about a dog she adopted who was afraid of its water bowl.

Caryn kept diligent notes. She sent this prospect information throughout the 6 months to keep her warm. Right before the 6 months, she hopped on the phone and asked her how her dog was doing. Her prospect couldn’t believe she remembered that detail. It solidified their relationship in a way that wouldn’t have happened otherwise. Caryn’s client got the meeting and the business.

The moral of the story? Take copious notes, review them, and make every phone call and email meaningful. Every touchpoint will either build a relationship or ruin a relationship. Lastly, never miss a follow-up. Set a task reminder and be consistent. Be a constant quality presence in your prospect’s life. To hear the rest of Caryn’s thoughts on prospecting and lead generation, listen to the whole episode! 

Resources & People Mentioned

• BOOK: Biz Dev Done Right

Connect with Caryn Kopp

• Follow on Twitter
• Connect on LinkedIn

Connect With Paul Watts 

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Subscribe to SALES REINVENTED

Audio Production and Show notes by PODCAST FAST TRACK https://www.podcastfasttrack.com

What does success look like for you today? How has your definition of success been impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic? Have you changed your expectation of success based on the world you’re currently living in? In this special episode of the Sales Reinvented podcast, you’ll hear the first-ever podcast episode exchange. Christie Walters-Herbert and Jeff Bajorek from “The Why and The Buy” podcast reminisce on 2020. They talk about how to change your definition of success and why you would want to in 2021. Don’t miss it!

Outline of This Episode

• [4:20] You can’t hit a target you can’t see
• [10:10] Modify what success is to recenter your vision
• [13:34] What does success look like for me?
• [16:48] What do you want?

You can’t hit a target you can’t see

What does success look like now? Jeff points out that you must ask yourself this question not only to see new opportunities—but to give yourself some relief. In times of uncertainty, you can’t cling to your previous goals because it may not be fair. But it’s also hard to commit to a new goal. When you know the old one isn’t good enough anymore but can’t commit to a new one, you’re in limbo. You can’t hit a target you can’t see. 

Jeff’s spent a lot of time thinking about this question. Is success being able to keep his business open? Is it growing the business? Is it being proud of the work that he’s doing? These questions aren’t necessarily tied to monetary goals but they are guideposts. Have you given yourself permission to determine what your guideposts are?

What does success look like for me?

Christie emphasizes that you can’t try to replicate someone else’s success. If you are, you’re going about it the wrong way. You can’t get motivated based on someone else's motivation. You can’t structure a business based on someone else’s structure. You’re not wired the same way as someone else—why base your success on them? You can still gain insight from someone else’s perspective on success and what helps them focus. But you have to define what success looks like for you, which begins by becoming clear on what you want. 

For Christie, success looks like doing the right things in her business day in and day out. She’s coaching people to have these conversations with her customers. Personally, it’s about making sure her health is in the right place in case she did catch something. It’s about conversations with her loved ones that are about the life she wants to create.

Define success so you can achieve it

Are you proud of the work you’re doing? Are you proud of where you are right now? Are you proud of what you’ve done? That gives you the context for what you believe success is in life. If you set out to accomplish something and you do, you should be proud. But if you don’t have a clear definition of success, it’s hard to be proud because you don’t have a measuring stick. If you don’t have a definition for “when,” how do you know you haven’t already achieved it?

Some people find it difficult to be satisfied or happy with any point that they’ve reached in their life. Some people downplay what they’ve accomplished. They think they should’ve accomplished more. It’s all because of the story you tell yourself. On paper, everything looks great. You’ve accomplished a lot. But because you weren’t clear on what was enough, you may not feel successful. 

Is it necessary to spend another night working? Or could you take that time and spend it with your family? Because in reality, you’ve accomplished a tremendous amount and it’s not going to fall apart because you put your attention on a different portion of your life that is just as important. That’s a struggle that a lot of people have.

What is important right now?

Many people are unemployed or underemployed trying to find their next step. There’s so much weight that comes when you feel like you’re not living up to your potential. It’s why you need to understand what is important right now. If you take a job that’s less than what your level of success would demand under normal circumstances, define what your success is. Are you providing for your family? Are you keeping your skills sharp until the right job opens up? Does the job provide you connections?

Ask yourself these three questions: Where are you going? What’s the ultimate objective and goal? What does that translate into for success today? You must adjust your perspective. If you cannot define success, you cannot achieve it. Spend your time reframing those concepts and things will become clear.

If you’re willing, share them with us. We may just share a book and some swag with you!

Resources & People Mentioned

• Join “The Why and The Buy” Community

Connect with Jeff Bajorek

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Follow on Twitter

Connect with Christie Walters-Herbert

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Follow on Twitter

Connect With Paul Watts 

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Subscribe to SALES REINVENTED

Audio Production and Show notes by PODCAST FAST TRACK https://www.podcastfasttrack.com