SALTovation: Navigating the Complexities of State and Local Tax by Aprio

SALTovation: Navigating the Complexities of State and Local Tax by Aprio

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SALTovation: Navigating the Complexities of State and Local Tax by Aprio episodes

  • Litigating SALT Cases with Leah Robinson (Part 1)

    In the first episode of a two-part series, we chat with Leah Robinson, an attorney and state and local tax partner with Mayer Brown in New York. Leah talks about some of the most interesting tax cases she has litigated, her thoughts on what could be deemed government overreach, and where she has seen some recent state auditor “gotchas” that we should all be aware of.

     


    Questions asked and answered in this Episode:


    • What are some of the most interesting SALT cases that Leah has seen and litigated?


     


    What You Will Discover:


    • [00:43] Leah’s background


    • [05:24] The first case she helped with the litigation


    • [07:48] Her favorite cases to work on


    • [12:58] The decision whether to litigate


    • [20:08] The time it takes for private letter rulings and advisory opinions


    • [24:18] Whether to pay or not pay


     


    Quotables:


     


    • “What do they do in some of the other courts when you need to know an answer, but there’s no way to get one?”- Leah Robinson [10:45]


    • “There’s a lot of sensitivities that go into the corporation…, but the business side decision on whether to litigate, not just how likely are we to win, but all of these soft considerations. And often in my experience, those often rule the day.”- Leah Robinson [16:51]


    • “It’s actually why it’s so important for us to get along, right? There are a number of us who are direct competitors, but are also friendly and like connect with each other. Obviously, not breaking confidentiality provisions and closing agreements, but getting a sense of what’s going on and what issues are we seeing go up, where the settlement ranges. We have to talk to each other, because the states know… you know, each individual department of revenue knows what it’s doing with all different taxpayers.”- Leah Robinson [18:32]


    “It’s a huge issue to pay, but the bigger issue is if you don’t pay, the interest becomes a whole other player in the analysis. And I have changed my story on this, right? I now advise companies for the most part to pay. ‘Let’s pay and seek a refund’ or in some jurisdictions if we’re litigating, we can pay and get an agreement with the state”- Leah Robinson [25:00]


    Subscribe on your favorite podcast app:

    https://saltovation.captivate.fm/listen

    https://linktr.ee/taxops 


    Follow Us on Socials

    https://www.linkedin.com/company/taxops-llc

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMB1ZQNGXM_F777SIEl8Vjw 


    Talk To A Tax Advocate Today

    TaxOps Website: https://taxops.com/contact/


    Production Support

    This episode was produced with support from Truth Work Media. www.truthworkmedia.com

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Schedule a Call with the Aprio Team Now!

    Introductory Call

    31 min
  • Talking about SALT with Richard Pomp and Jordan Goodman (Part 2)

    In the second episode of a two-part series, we continue our conversation with Richard Pomp, Professor at the University of Connecticut Law School and Adjunct Professor at NYU Law in the LLM program in tax, and Jordan Goodman, partner at HMB Legal Counsel. They share their thoughts on prominent tax cases and other state and local tax topics.

     


    Questions asked and answered in this Episode:


    • What are some recent tax decisions that they think are bad policy?


     


    What You Will Discover:


    • [00:31] Tax decisions they think are bad policies


    • [06:48] Their thoughts on the Express Scripts case


    • [10:30] American Honda and Arkansas Supreme Court


    • [14:42] The current case regarding Sirius XM Radio in Texas


    • [18:34] How to impose sales tax through the B&H Photo case


     


    Quotables:


    • “I’ve seen it where they use cost of goods sold because it doesn’t matter for fellow purposes. It’s just a deduction, but the state will jump on it, and the opposite in Texas. Unless you call it cost of goods sold, you don’t get it as cost of goods sold even if it is cost of goods sold.” - Jordan Goodman [08:02]


    • “I don’t care what piece of paper you give the store. What did you pay for out of your cash. That’s the only thing that matters.” - Richard Pomp [23:28]


     


    Relevant Links:


    Jordan Goodman on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordanmgoodman


    HMB Legal Counsel: hmblaw.com


    Richard Pomp: law.uconn.edu/person/richard-pomp


    Subscribe on your favorite podcast app:

    https://saltovation.captivate.fm/listen

    https://linktr.ee/taxops 


    Follow Us on Socials

    https://www.linkedin.com/company/taxops-llc

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMB1ZQNGXM_F777SIEl8Vjw 


    Talk To A Tax Advocate Today

    TaxOps Website: https://taxops.com/contact/


    Production Support

    This episode was produced with support from Truth Work Media. www.truthworkmedia.com

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Schedule a Call with the Aprio Team Now!

    Introductory Call

    26 min
  • Discussing SALT with Richard Pomp and Jordan Goodman (Part 1)

    In the first episode of a two-part series, we speak with Richard Pomp, Professor at the University of Connecticut Law School and Adjunct Professor at NYU Law in the LLM program in tax, and Jordan Goodman, partner at HMB Legal Counsel. Richard and Jordan tell the backstory of how their Top 10 list regarding state and local taxes came to be and how they determine what to discuss. They also share their thoughts on recent tax issues including the North Carolina tax case against quad graphics and public law 86-272.

     


    Questions asked and answered in this Episode:


    • How “The Big East Brawl” started and why they continue to banter with each other


    • How they determine what to talk about


    • Their thoughts and opinions on recent tax issues including North Carolina’s tax case against Quad Graphics and the MTC’s revised statement regarding Public Law 86-272


     


    What You Will Discover:


    • [00:38] The origin story of “The Big East Brawl”


    • [04:52] How they determine what to talk about


    • [09:14] Their thoughts on North Carolina’s tax case against Quad Graphics


    • [17:42] Contingency and alternative fee arrangements


    • [20:14] Breaking down complex issues to the common man


    • [23:12] Their opinions on MTC’s revised statement for Public Law 86-272


     


    Quotables:


     


    • “We go back and forth. Jordan puts together the outline. I always give him credit, and make it clear that all the mistakes are his.” - Richard Pomp [05:47]


    • “Part of Professor Pomp’s genius is the ability to break it down to everybody, right? To the reasonable person, common man, common woman, common person. That’s what his genius is is being able to take our complex, most complex stuff and say ‘Here’s how it is,’ and use general things found in a kitchen to explain it to a judge so they can understand it.” - Jordan Goodman [20:43]


    • “If the law doesn’t make sense anymore, you either got to expand it to include everybody or get rid of it from a policy perspective.” - Jordan Goodman [25:20]


     


    Relevant Links:


    Jordan Goodman on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordanmgoodman


    HMB Legal Counsel: hmblaw.com


    Richard Pomp: law.uconn.edu/person/richard-pomp


    Subscribe on your favorite podcast app:

    https://saltovation.captivate.fm/listen

    https://linktr.ee/taxops 


    Follow Us on Socials

    https://www.linkedin.com/company/taxops-llc

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMB1ZQNGXM_F777SIEl8Vjw 


    Talk To A Tax Advocate Today

    TaxOps Website: https://taxops.com/contact/


    Production Support

    This episode was produced with support from Truth Work Media. www.truthworkmedia.com

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Schedule a Call with the Aprio Team Now!

    Introductory Call

    35 min
  • Public Law 86-272 with Brian Hamer (Part 2)

    In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Brian Hamer, who serves as counsel at the Multistate Tax Commission, about the revisions made to the Statement of Information concerning practices of Public Law 86-272. In the second part of this two-part series, Brian addresses what these revisions have on states and taxpayers.

     


    Questions asked and answered in this Episode:


    • What questions are internet retailers asking about the new revisions? How does a taxpayer know what to apply?


    • What do states have to do to adopt the modernized revisions?


    • Does Brian think there will come a time when Public Law 86-272 will disappear?


     


    What You Will Discover:


    • [00:24] How the updates applies to internet retailers


    • [04:24] How a taxpayer know what to apply


    • [08:05] Why the interest and application of Public Law 86-272 is more prevalent


    • [16:13] What the states do from here


    • [26:36] If there will come a time when Public Law 86-272 will go away


     


    Quotables:


     


    • “It’s important to note that what the MTC has attempted to do here is not to engage in some policy making activity enterprise, but rather to attempt to apply the statute from 1959 to these modern business activities.” - Brian Hamer [03:32]


    • “I think this is something that we lose sight of. I think there’s perhaps traditionally been this notion that there is a physical presence requirement in the statute, but it just doesn’t exist, and as I say specifically, Congress rejected that approach.” - Brian Hamer [14:53]


    • “Believe this or not that the motivation for the Statement of Information and the recent revisions of the statement is really to benefit taxpayers. That the thought was that it was important for taxpayers to understand where states are coming from, because it’s all about notice here. Taxpayers should not be taken by surprise.” - Brian Hamer [17:13]


    • “If 86-272 is not the answer, what is the answer? And the answer frankly is that states need to enact a system of thresholds.” - Brian Hamer [25:52]


     


    Relevant Links:


    The Multistate Tax Commission: https://www.mtc.gov


    Multistate Tax Commission with Helen Hecht: taxops.com/multistate-tax-commission-with-helen-hecht


    Brian Hamber on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/brian-hamer-528b67b4


    Subscribe on your favorite podcast app:

    https://saltovation.captivate.fm/listen

    https://linktr.ee/taxops 


    Follow Us on Socials

    https://www.linkedin.com/company/taxops-llc

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMB1ZQNGXM_F777SIEl8Vjw 


    Talk To A Tax Advocate Today

    TaxOps Website: https://taxops.com/contact/


    Production Support

    This episode was produced with support from Truth Work Media. www.truthworkmedia.com

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Schedule a Call with the Aprio Team Now!

    Introductory Call

    31 min
  • Record Payroll Tax

    In this episode, Stacey Roberts and Alexander Korzhen, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, share some best practices with handling your state and local payroll taxes.

     


    What You Will Discover:


    • [00:52] The effects of a remote workforce


    • [02:20] Things to keep in mind with PEOs


    • [07:48] Reviewing employee mapping


    • [09:53] Some takeaways


     


    Quotables:


    • “So what we’re seeing is obviously a lot more employees are now working from home and we have to reevaluate our payroll map, so to speak.” -Alexander Korzhen [02:01]


    • “I think long story short there, if a taxpayer is signing up with a payroll processor, just keep in mind that that’s their job.” -Stacey Roberts [06:54]


    Subscribe on your favorite podcast app:

    https://saltovation.captivate.fm/listen

    https://linktr.ee/taxops 


    Follow Us on Socials

    https://www.linkedin.com/company/taxops-llc

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMB1ZQNGXM_F777SIEl8Vjw 


    Talk To A Tax Advocate Today

    TaxOps Website: https://taxops.com/contact/


    Production Support

    This episode was produced with support from Truth Work Media. www.truthworkmedia.com

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Schedule a Call with the Aprio Team Now!

    Introductory Call

    12 min
  • Public Law 86-272 with Brian Hamer (Part 1)

    In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Brian Hamer, who serves as counsel at the Multistate Tax Commission, about the revisions made to the Statement of Information concerning the practices of Public Law 86-272. In this first part of a two-part series, Brian discusses the history of this law. He also explores the new changes and what it means to businesses and states in the future.

     


    Questions asked and answered in this Episode:


    • What was updated in the statute to address modern business activities?


    • Why is there such interest in this process?


    • What are some of the big revisions to the Statement of Information?


     


    What You Will Discover:


    • [01:21] What was updated in the statute


    • [03:30] Some flaws in the statute


    • [06:36] The Statement of Information


    • [09:39] Some of the the big revisions


    • [12:50] The thinking behind the 11 scenarios


     


    Quotables:


     


    • “But this whole process has been the subject of much attention. It’s really kind of a fascinating thing.” - Brian Hamer [08:54]


    • “I would say that the most consequential revision relates to how the statute applies to business activities conducted via the internet.” - Brian Hamer [10:18]


    • “The members of the work group were not required to explain their thinking, but there were a couple of themes that definitely came out over the course of the discussion, the kind of considerations that motivated the ultimate decision.” - Brian Hamer [13:43]


     


    Relevant Links:


    The Multistate Tax Commission: https://www.mtc.gov


    Multistate Tax Commission with Helen Hecht: taxops.com/multistate-tax-commission-with-helen-hecht


    Brian Hamber on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/brian-hamer-528b67b4


    Subscribe on your favorite podcast app:

    https://saltovation.captivate.fm/listen

    https://linktr.ee/taxops 


    Follow Us on Socials

    https://www.linkedin.com/company/taxops-llc

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMB1ZQNGXM_F777SIEl8Vjw 


    Talk To A Tax Advocate Today

    TaxOps Website: https://taxops.com/contact/


    Production Support

    This episode was produced with support from Truth Work Media. www.truthworkmedia.com

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Schedule a Call with the Aprio Team Now!

    Introductory Call

    19 min
  • What is R&D

    In this episode, Stacey Roberts, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, and Jamie Overberg from TaxOps Minimization Group, talk about research and development tax credits, also known as R&D.

     


    What You Will Discover:


    • [00:41] How TaxOps Minimization Group focuses on R&D


    • [01:45] Criteria for R&D credit


    • [03:23] Nuances of the state level


    • [08:29] Cloud costs


    • [10:31] Other states with increased audit activity


    • [12:55] This credit is for smaller companies too


     


    Quotables:


    “This credit is not just for big companies. It’s for smaller companies also, so you should try to get it.” -Jamie Overberg [15:02]


    Subscribe on your favorite podcast app:

    https://saltovation.captivate.fm/listen

    https://linktr.ee/taxops 


    Follow Us on Socials

    https://www.linkedin.com/company/taxops-llc

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMB1ZQNGXM_F777SIEl8Vjw 


    Talk To A Tax Advocate Today

    TaxOps Website: https://taxops.com/contact/


    Production Support

    This episode was produced with support from Truth Work Media. www.truthworkmedia.com

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Schedule a Call with the Aprio Team Now!

    Introductory Call

    18 min
  • State taxation of cannabis

    In this episode, Alexander Korzhen and Tram Le from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, provide an overview of state taxation of cannabis. They explain how this taxation as an intrastate enterprise, meaning the product is licenced and sold in the state, will affect taxpayers.

     


    What You Will Discover:


    • [00:26] Viewing from a state’s perspective


    • [02:29] State taxation of cannabis is an intrastate enterprise


    • [05:10] Exemptions to consider


     


    Quotables:


    • “Understanding your role and understanding what types of taxes that you might be subject to in a given state is really hard to get your arms wrapped around.” -Tram Le [04:37]


    • “There’s a lot of consideration and a lot of detail from state to state.” -Alexander Korzhen [03:43]



    Subscribe on your favorite podcast app:

    https://saltovation.captivate.fm/listen

    https://linktr.ee/taxops 


    Follow Us on Socials

    https://www.linkedin.com/company/taxops-llc

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMB1ZQNGXM_F777SIEl8Vjw 


    Talk To A Tax Advocate Today

    TaxOps Website: https://taxops.com/contact/


    Production Support

    This episode was produced with support from Truth Work Media. www.truthworkmedia.com

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Schedule a Call with the Aprio Team Now!

    Introductory Call

    10 min
  • Tips to Prep for an Audit

    In this episode, Meredith Smith and Connie Zoerink from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, share some tips on how to prepare for an audit.

     


    What You Will Discover:


    • [00:51] How helpful it is to have a pre-audit call


    • [02:15] What documents to submit


    • [03:30] Auditors are people too


     


    Quotables:


    • “I’ve gotten to know being on the industry side for a while too, getting to know auditors that they’re human too, and they have families, and they have interests and hobbies outside of auditing. And sometimes they’re really pleasant people, but they can be less pleasant when they’re stuck in the darkest corner of the basement of the file room with the invoices from 1972 or whatever. ” -Connie Zoerink [03:53]


    • “You can put in the work at the beginning to hone in your information could really pay off dividends in the end. That concept of short-term sacrifice for long-term gain.” -Meredith Smith [05:00]


    Subscribe on your favorite podcast app:

    https://saltovation.captivate.fm/listen

    https://linktr.ee/taxops 


    Follow Us on Socials

    https://www.linkedin.com/company/taxops-llc

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMB1ZQNGXM_F777SIEl8Vjw 


    Talk To A Tax Advocate Today

    TaxOps Website: https://taxops.com/contact/


    Production Support

    This episode was produced with support from Truth Work Media. www.truthworkmedia.com

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Schedule a Call with the Aprio Team Now!

    Introductory Call

    7 min
  • Streamlined Sales Tax Governing Board with Craig Johnson

    In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Craig Johnson, Executive Director of the Streamlined Sales Tax Governing Board. Craig talks about what the board does and shares some of their accomplishments since 1999 with both participating and nonparticipating states.

     


    Questions asked and answered in this Episode:


    • What is Streamlined Sales Tax Governing Board?


    • What are some of Streamlined’s major accomplishments?


    • Why aren’t the other 22 states registered with the board?


     


    What You Will Discover:


    • [00:44] What is Streamlined Sales Tax Governing Board


    • [02:48] Some of their major accomplishments


    • [07:40] Their central registration system for sellers


    • [13:22] Why other states don’t register to participate


    • [19:38] Creating uniform definitions using candy as an example


    • [29:13] The resolution to allow non-member states to participate


    • [35:47] Survey results from registered sellers


    • [41:34] What Craig is hopeful for the future


     


    Quotables:


     


    • “We’ve made significant improvements and significant strides in making it easier for businesses.” - Craig Johnson [02:43]


    • “We didn’t really have, I don’t believe, a true appreciation for all the various nuances multi-state businesses face. We knew our laws inside and out. I knew our laws inside and out. Quite frankly, expected multi-state businesses to know them just as well, but while we’re focusing just on our laws, multi-state businesses, they're trying to do this and they’re focusing on every state’s laws that they’re operating in. And I think as part of our accomplishments, we now as states have a much better understanding and appreciate really for what multi-state businesses face and the challenges that they have.” - Craig Johnson [05:24]


    • “If you’re not in a Streamlined state and you’re going to make sales in any one of our member states, you can still register through Streamlined.” - Craig Johnson [13:11]


    • “We are trying very hard to walk that fine line of where does simplification or where does simplification in state sovereignty, where’s the ideal spot for them to meet?” - Craig Johnson [21:16]


    • “I want a business to focus on growing its business. I don’t want a business to focus on ‘I have to do my taxes. I have to calculate sales tax.’ Let somebody else do that.” - Craig Johnson [39:53]


    • “We have to listen to business. If we’re going to make things easier, we have to understand from the people that are actually doing the work on a day to day basis. What’s causing the problem? And then figure out what the response is and work with them, like ‘Ok, what do we see as a solution that works from both the states’ side and the seller’s side?’” - Craig Johnson [43:58]


     


    Relevant Links:


    Streamlined Sales Tax Governing Board: streamlinedsalestax.org


    Craig Johnson on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/craig-johnson-97027b69


    Subscribe on your favorite podcast app:

    https://saltovation.captivate.fm/listen

    https://linktr.ee/taxops 


    Follow Us on Socials

    https://www.linkedin.com/company/taxops-llc

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMB1ZQNGXM_F777SIEl8Vjw 


    Talk To A Tax Advocate Today

    TaxOps Website: https://taxops.com/contact/


    Production Support

    This episode was produced with support from Truth Work Media. www.truthworkmedia.com

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Schedule a Call with the Aprio Team Now!

    Introductory Call

    47 min

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