Have you ever heard the term climate hypocrite? Maybe you've noticed as it was applied to some high profile celebrity or advocate flying across the globe to give a speech on reducing carbon emissions? Or maybe you feared you yourself may be one as you sat in an air- conditioned office promoting the planetary virtues of a vegan diet? Our guest today on Sea Change Radio has thought a lot about this. He's environmental journalist Sami Grover, whose first book entitled "We're All Hypocrites Now" reminds us that environmentalists need not make the perfect the enemy of the good. We discuss the difficulty of trying to live a carbon-reduced lifestyle in a modern world largely built by fossil fuels, we talk about ways to as he puts it, live a little lighter on the earth, and we explore how regular folks who are not at the forefront of systems change may still have an influence beyond simply modifying their personal lifestyle choices.

Narrator 0:01  This is Sea Change Radio, covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise.

Sami Grover  0:15  I am going to support systemic solutions that support affordable housing or support efforts to dismantle the sort of racist and segregationist policies of the past. It's just about sort of widening the lens and sort of understanding where your role is. And if it's always through the lens of consumer, we're not going to get very far.

Narrator  0:34  Have you ever heard the term climate hypocrite? Maybe you've noticed as it was applied to some high profile celebrity or advocate flying across the globe to give a speech on reducing carbon emissions? Or maybe you feared you yourself may be one as you sat in an air conditioned office promoting the planetary virtues of a vegan diet. Our guest today on Sea Change Radio has thought a lot about this. He's environmental journalist Sami Grover, whose first book entitled "We're All Hypocrites Now" reminds us that environmentalists need not make the perfect the enemy of the good. We discuss the difficulty of trying to live a carbon reduced lifestyle in a modern world largely built by fossil fuels. We talk about ways to as he puts it, live a little lighter on the earth. And we explore how regular folks who are not at the forefront of systems change may still have an influence beyond simply modifying their personal lifestyle choices.

Alex Wise  1:52  I'm joined now on Sea Change Radio by Sami Grover. Sami is an environmental journalist and an author and his latest book is entitled, "We're All Climate Hypocrites Now: how embracing our limitations can unlock the power of a movement." Sami, welcome to Sea Change Radio.

Sami Grover  Thanks, Alex. Nice to be here.

Alex Wise - So we spoke for Sea Change Radio, like three or four years ago, when you had a piece in tree hugger, it was kind of the latest innovations in transportation at the time. But I'm pretty excited about this next leap in your evolution as a writer, "We're All Climate Hypocrites Now" is terrific. Why don't you first tell our listeners what you wanted to add to the climate discussion? I mean, there's a lot of climate change-oriented books out there, but where did you want to make your mark?

Sami Grover  2:41  Sure. So the idea really like, as you know, I've been writing for Treehugger for gosh, you know, many years, probably 12 to 13 years now. And covered just sort of all kinds of lifestyle environmentalism, right, that, you know, biking to work, composting toilets, growing your own food, making sure talking mushroom logs, you know, living zero waste, living, minimal waste, buying renewable energy, owning solar panels, etc, etc. Right. So I've covered all these sort of lifestyle topics. And I think they're all important. But I've also gotten frustrated by how climate kind of gets boil...