"So you know, something that is a big part of my project…is actually this idea that we deserve pleasure. I think that pleasure and care, these are antidotes against various kinds of violence and degradation that we're all beset with. And so for me, when I wrote this novel, I did not write it for a critic at The New York Times, you know. I wrote it for the past version of me. And I wrote for someone who would need to read this, who would be reading this book after work on the subway." Sarah's Thankam Mathews is making a terrific debut with All This Could Be Different—longlisted for the 2022 National Book Award for Fiction and a finalist for our own Discover Prize—and she joins us on the show to talk about channeling her characters, subverting the coming-of-age novel, challenging the expectations of the immigrant experience, queerness, finding our people and much more with Poured Over's host, Miwa Messer.

Featured Books (Episode):

Normal People by Sally Rooney

Lucy by Jamaica Kincaid

Luster by Raven Leilani

The New Me by Halle Butler

Poured Over is produced and hosted by Miwa Messer and mixed by Harry Liang. Follow us here for new episodes Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays).

A complete transcript of this episode is available here.