Scaling Laws

By Lawfare & University of Texas Law School

Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the one... more

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FAQs about Scaling Laws:

How many episodes does Scaling Laws have?

The podcast currently has 170 episodes available.

Scaling Laws episodes:

August 28, 2025 Uncle Sam Buys In: Examining the Intel Deal
Peter E. Harrell, Adjunct Senior Fellow at the Center for a New American Security, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to examine the White House’s announcement that it will take a 10% share of Intel. They dive into the policy rationale for the stake as well as its legality. Peter and Kevin also explore whether this is just the start of such deals given that President Trump recently declared that “there will be more transactions, if not in this industry then other industries.”
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48min
August 26, 2025 AI in the Classroom with MacKenzie Price, Alpha School co-founder, and Rebecca Winthrop, leader of the Brookings Global Task Force on AI in Education
MacKenzie Price, co-founder of Alpha School, and Rebecca Winthrop, a senior fellow and director of the Center for Universal Education at the Brookings Institution, join Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to review how AI is being integrated into the classroom at home and abroad. MacKenzie walks through the use of predictive AI in Alpha School classrooms. Rebecca provides a high-level summary of ongoing efforts around the globe to bring AI into the education pipeline. This conversation is particularly timely in the wake of the AI Action Plan, which built on the Trump administration’s prior calls for greater use of AI from K to 12 and beyond.

Learn more about Alpha School here: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/27/us/politics/ai-alpha-school-austin-texas.html and here: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/your-review-alpha-school

Learn about the Brookings Global Task Force on AI in Education here: https://www.brookings.edu/projects/brookings-global-task-force-on-ai-in-education/
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1h 21min
August 21, 2025 The Open Questions Surrounding Open Source AI with Nathan Lambert and Keegan McBride
Keegan McBride, Senior Policy Advisor in Emerging Technology and Geopolitics at the Tony Blair Institute, and Nathan Lambert, a post-training lead at the Allen Institute for AI, join Alan Rozenshein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explore the current state of open source AI model development and associated policy questions.

The pivot to open source has been swift following initial concerns that the security risks posed by such models outweighed their benefits. What this transition means for the US AI ecosystem and the global AI competition is a topic worthy of analysis by these two experts.
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46min
August 19, 2025Export Controls: Janet Egan, Sam Winter-Levy, and Peter Harrell on the White House's Semiconductor Decision
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, sat down with Sam Winter-Levy, a fellow in the Technology and International Affairs Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace; Janet Egan, a senior fellow with the Technology and National Security Program at the Center for a New American Security; and Peter Harrell, a nonresident fellow at Carnegie and a former senior director for international economics at the White House National Security Council under President Joe Biden.
They discussed the Trump administration’s recent decision to allow U.S. companies Nvidia and AMD to export a range of advanced AI semiconductors to China in exchange for a 15% payment to the U.S. government. They talked about the history of the export control regime targeting China’s access to AI chips, the strategic risks of allowing China to acquire powerful chips like the Nvidia H20, and the potential harm to the international coalition that has worked to restrict China’s access to this technology. They also debated the statutory and constitutional legality of the deal, which appears to function as an export tax, a practice explicitly prohibited by the Constitution.
Mentioned in this episode:
The Financial Times article breaking the news about the Nvidia deal
The Trump Administration’s AI Action Plan
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54min
August 14, 2025 Navigating AI Policy: Dean Ball on Insights from the White House
Join us on Scaling Laws as we delve into the intricate world of AI policy with Dean Ball, former senior policy advisor at the White House's Office of Science and Technology Policy. Discover the behind-the-scenes insights into the Trump administration's AI Action Plan, the challenges of implementing AI policy at the federal level, and the evolving political landscape surrounding AI on the right. Dean shares his unique perspective on the opportunities and hurdles in shaping AI's future, offering a candid look at the intersection of technology, policy, and politics. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion that explores the strategic steps America can take to lead in the AI era.
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59min
August 12, 2025 The Legal Maze of AI Liability: Anat Lior on Bridging Law and Emerging Tech
In this episode, we talk about the intricate world of AI liability through the lens of agency law. Join us as Anat Lior explores the compelling case for using agency law to address the legal challenges posed by AI agents. Discover how analogies, such as principal-agent relationships, can help navigate the complexities of AI liability, and why it's crucial to ensure that someone is held accountable when AI systems cause harm. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion on the future of AI governance and the evolving landscape of legal responsibility.
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47min
August 07, 2025 Values in AI: Safety, Ethics, and Innovation with OpenAI's Brian Fuller
Brian Fuller, product policy leader at OpenAI joins Kevin on the challenges of designing policies that ensure AI technologies are safe, aligned, and socially beneficial. From the fast-paced landscape of AI development to the balancing of innovation with ethical responsibility. Tune in to gain insights into the frameworks that guide AI's integration into society and the critical questions that shape its future.
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51min
August 05, 2025 Because of Woke: Renée DiResta and Alan Rozenshtein on the ‘Woke AI’ Executive Order
Renée DiResta, an Associate Research Professor at the McCourt School of Public Policy at Georgetown join Alan Rozenshtein and Kevin Frazier, to take a look at the Trump Administration’s Woke AI policies, as set forth by a recent EO and explored in the AI Action Plan. This episode unpacks the implications of prohibiting AI models that fail to pursue objective truth and espouse "DEI" values.
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47min
July 31, 2025 Moving the AGI Goal Posts: AI Skepticism with Sayash Kapoor
In this episode of Scaling Laws, Kevin Frazier is joined by Sayash Kapoor, co-author of "AI Snake Oil," to explore the complexities of AI development and its societal implications. They delve into the skepticism surrounding AGI claims, the real bottlenecks in AI adoption, and the transformative potential of AI as a general-purpose technology. Kapoor shares insights on the challenges of integrating AI into various sectors, the importance of empirical research, and the evolving nature of work in the AI era. The conversation also touches on the role of policy in shaping AI's future and the need for a nuanced understanding of AI's capabilities and limitations.
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59min
July 30, 2025 A New AI Regulatory Regime? SB 813 with Lauren Wagner and Andrew Freedman
In this episode, join Kevin Frazier as he delves into the complex world of AI regulation with experts Lauren Wagner of the Abundance Institute and Andrew Freedman, Chief Strategy Officer at Fathom. As the AI community eagerly awaits the federal government's AI action plan, our guests explore the current regulatory landscape and the challenges of implementing effective governance with bills like SB 813. Innovative approaches are being proposed, including the role of independent verification organizations and the potential for public-private partnerships.

Be sure to check out Fathom's Substack here: https://fathomai.substack.com/subscribe?params=%5Bobject%20Object%5D
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56min

FAQs about Scaling Laws:

How many episodes does Scaling Laws have?

The podcast currently has 170 episodes available.

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Scaling Laws

FAQs about Scaling Laws:

How many episodes does Scaling Laws have?

Scaling Laws episodes:

FAQs about Scaling Laws:

How many episodes does Scaling Laws have?

More shows like Scaling Laws

The Political Scene | The New Yorker

The Intelligence from The Economist

The Ezra Klein Show