In this episode of Inside Story, Kristen sits down with Joe, a Type Nine whose journey through recovery, Enneagram work, marriage, parenting, and leadership offers a thoughtful look at what growth can look like for Nines.

Together they explore the relationship between the Enneagram and 12-step recovery, the challenge of recognizing and expressing anger, passive-aggression, conflict, self-forgetting, and the fear of disrupting peace. Joe reflects on how routines, courage, accountability, and trusted communities have helped him find his voice and take meaningful action.

The conversation also touches on humility, expertise, relationships, spirituality, and why growth often requires doing the thing we least want to do. For Nines—and anyone who struggles to trust themselves, speak up, or act before they feel ready—this is a rich conversation about what it means to remember that you matter.