You can find all of Saleh Callander's books : HERE

In this episode of Inside Story, host Kristin Messegee sits down with Saleh Vallander—Sweden-based doctor, meditation teacher, and Enneagram author—for a rich, spacious conversation on Enneagram Type Five from the inside out.

Saleh shares how he discovered the Enneagram on a meditation retreat in 2017, why a spiritual frame matters to him, and how storytelling, metaphor, and nonverbal language can sometimes reveal a type more accurately than intellectual description. Kristin and Saleh explore the Five’s relationship to “knowing”—not as trivia-collecting, but as a visceral hunger to uncover what’s underneath things—and the challenge of trying to isolate “type” from other parts of personality (including cognitive styles and tritype dynamics).

From there, the conversation moves into the heart of Saleh's work and his book The Nine Barriers to the Heart: the way each type loses contact with essential qualities, chases a partial truth, and eventually discovers that the deepest change isn’t self-improvement—it’s acceptance. Together they name what Fives often avoid (emptiness), how that emptiness can feel like an existential threat, and why non-attachment isn’t an idealized spiritual pose but the byproduct of learning to be with what you’ve been running from.

Along the way, you’ll hear striking distinctions—Five “isolation” versus Four “estrangement,” how withdrawal can look polite on the outside while fear hides underneath, and why the quest for happiness can become its own mirage when it’s driven by the “miserable self.” If you’re a Five, love a Five, or want a more honest conversation about spiritual work that doesn’t bypass suffering, this one lands deep.

Connect with Monique Here : [email protected]

In this far-reaching Type Four conversation, Kristin Messegee sits down with Enneagram coach Monique Lacoste to explore the inner landscape of one of the most mythologized and misunderstood Enneagram types.

Together they trace what it means to carry intensity, to read truth on every level, and to live with the emotional realness of the emotionally responsive types.

Monique opens the door to the lived experience of Fours: the search for authenticity, the pull toward beauty, the cultivation of mood, and the complicated dance between internal image and external mirroring. She speaks candidly about anger, passion, shame, envy, and the surprising ways these show up in real relationships, conflict, creativity, and self-understanding.

They look at Tri-Fixes, instinct theory, attachment patterns, emotional truth-telling—and remaining grounded in story, vulnerability, and real-time discovery.

Kristin interviews Kelly Langley Cook: Enneagram Three, career educator, and the person who quietly shapes most future social studies teachers in Greeley, Colorado.

Kelly spent two decades teaching high school before moving into higher ed, where she now focuses on LGBTQ+ U.S. history and teacher training at UNC.

She also happens to share a life (and last name) with Jeff Cook, which means she’s lived inside Enneagram culture for a long time—while still claiming her lane as the “normal person in a world full of experts.”

In this episode of Inside Story, host Kristin Messegee (@enneagram_6_coach) sits down with Enneagram coach Jackie Contessa (@tablefor9co).

Jackie talks about Twoness and pulling back the curtain on pride, need, the fear of lovelessness, the desire to be chosen, and the quiet grief Twos carry when they disconnect from themselves.

Together, they explore what it means to hunger for love, how pride cuts Twos off from their own needs, and why real connection requires letting ourselves be seen without manipulation, performance, or earning.

This conversation goes everywhere:

• learning to meet your own needs

• the Two’s relationship with shame

• repairing conflict

• how image types lose themselves

• why boundaries can be the deepest act of love

• what opens up when a Two stops curating who they are

If you’re a Two—or love a two—this episode is a masterclass in understanding what’s happening under the hood. It’s tender, hilarious, raw, and full of the kind of truth that reshapes how we show up for each other.

Follow the work:

🌿 Kristin: instagram.com/kristinmessegee

🌿 Jackie: instagram.com/tablefor9co

Become a Member of Around the Circle : HERE

From our new podcast feed, Kristin Messegee sits down with ATC host Jeff Cook to learn Type One from the inside out.

They start with the inner critic—“like being tumbled by a six-foot wave”—and why Ones wish for an edit button in real life. Jeff shares how verbal processing helps his intuition lock in, what agency feels like in the body (“gliding on glassy water”), and how anger becomes usable energy instead of something to hide.

They also explore autonomy, black-and-white thinking, resentment and “memorizing sins,” the pull to problem-solve over connect, avoiding grief, and the grounding question: What’s mine to do? 

This is the full episode. 

On this Episode, We’re kicking off Our New Podcast "Inside Story" by turning the mic toward Around the Circle co-host T.J. Wilson (Type Nine).

This is a spacious, honest conversation about Nine life from inside —how “gut knowing” actually shows up, why autonomy matters so much to body types, and what conflict feels like when it lands in the body. T.J. names the costs of keeping the peace, the sideways ways anger can surface, and the mantra that’s changing his relationship to procrastination (“later is not a point in time”).

Along the way we get practical: decision-making when everything feels equally important, how merging can be a superpower and a trap, why stable presence draws Sixes, and what Nines need most from the people who love them (space, time, permission—and an endpoint).

Also, check out Kristin's excellent work here:

• Life Uninhibited – The Enneagram 6 Podcast (Kristin’s flagship show): kristinmessegee.com/podcasts/life-uninhibited-the-enneagram-6-podcast Kristin Messegee
• Kristin’s website (coaching for Sixes): kristinmessegee.com Kristin Messegee
• Zero to Sixy (Kristin’s community/program): kristinmessegee.com/zero-to-sixy-2 Kristin Messegee
• Instagram: @enneagram_6_coach instagram.com

We are launching Inside Story with Kristin Messegee.

Kristin is a coach, interviewer, and longtime student of the Enneagram. Drawing on deep work with Sixes and trauma-informed coaching, she will be inviting highly informed guests to talk about their type, to name their motives, fear, shame, anger, desire, and the “prickly parts” others feel.