In this heartfelt episode, Gary sits down with longtime friend and ministry partner Dave Pacheco to talk about their shared years of pastoring together, the highs and heartbreaks of church leadership, and how God’s call often shifts in unexpected ways.

Dave opens up about his journey from youth and associate pastor to lead pastor at Delaware Grace, and how learning to step away didn’t mean stepping out of ministry. Together, Gary and Dave reflect on El Salvador trips with Compassion International, the power of friendship through hard seasons, and what it really means to love pastors well.

Now serving with Encompass World Partners, Dave shares how his heart for people and the gospel has only grown—moving from one local church to a global mission. Whether you’re a pastor, church leader, or someone who loves your local shepherds, this conversation is a deep breath of encouragement and perspective.