2020 has been quite a year ...

Doug provides his thoughts looking back on the year and insights for the year to come.

To cap it off, Doug wishes everybody a merry Christmas and happy New Year.

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to capture overhead cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results.

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Alright! Welcome to the terminal value podcast. This is actually a special holiday edition where of course as I'm sure you can tell I don't have anybody interviewing. I am just going to be talking to you all by my lonesome reflecting on 2020. Now if there is one thing that 2020 is most assuredly going to be known for it is the pandemic. The covid 19 pandemic is pretty much the item of the year. I think very closely associated with it and related to it is the US presidential election between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Much of which centered on the covid 19 pandemic and so when I look back at the year, there're a couple of things that I think about. And there's a few thoughts I wanted to, that I want to take forward and I wanted to share those with you. So the first thing that I think of is that okay now first of all is that I'm you know any loss of life of course is tragic. But what I just can't really get past is how there's been a laser focus on mortalities from covid and a complete and total lack of acknowledgement of anything else. So for example one of the things that I saw recently is that although the covid fatalities have been going up fatalities from other causes mortalities from other causes have been going down because what happens is if somebody goes into a hospital and they get diagnosed with covid and they should die even if it wasn't because of covid. If they died with covid, it is logged as a covid death. So you'd say well why is this? Well it turns out there's a financial payment reimbursement for covid. So there is a financial incentive to document more mortalities is covid. Now, do I believe that it's a vast conspiracy? of course not. Do I believe that the numbers are maybe not as that there's some wiggle in the numbers or that they're fuzzy? Absolutely. And another thing that actually really concerns me just personally is that mental health really isn't getting enough attention and I think that it's actually going to be a huge problem. Suicide rates in a number of areas are very very high. Your drug addiction rates are going up. Alcoholism rates are going up. Depression rates are going up. 

You know the fact that so many kids are being stuck at home and not able to go to school. That's a big problem and if you're an affluent family it's only a problem in terms of scheduling because like for example my wife and I, we have two kids and they have been at stay-at-home school for the entire year and that create that is not the most conducive environment for learning. We're fortunate to have a home where we can have a setup that's pretty easy to do school in but it's not easy to learn from your parents. You know, it's not easy to have  that lack of separation between where you're doing school and where you have your home activities. But think about how this would work for somebody who has a rough home life. I read a wonderful article from Alonzo Morning in Miami about shortly after the pandemic broke where he was talking about how when he was young the reason why he got so good at basketball...

Doug talks with Dr. Debby Thomas - The dean of the George Fox University school of business administration about the decision to hold the fall semester onsite and its associated challenges.

The objective of higher education is not only learning content. Interacting with professors and students is a critical part of creating a rounded experience that prepares students for the outside world.

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Welcome to terminal value podcast. I have Debbie Thomas from George Fox University. She's actually the dean of the school of business and we are co-Rotarians in the Newberg noon Rotary Club and what George Fox did this fall I actually thought was very courageous. They decided to hold a school on campus instead of deciding that everybody was going to go virtual. This was a stark departure from what a lot of universities have done and for me I appreciate the willingness to go against the grain. I'm a you know and in my soul I'm definitely a contrarian at heart and so I just really like to hear these stories and Debbie I'd love to just discuss what's the experience been. Like how have you made the adjustments and how did you come to the decision.

Debby: Yeah well, first of all I am the dean of the college of business and the decision was made way over my head right. So I got to implement the decision but I didn't make the decision. So I can't take any credit or blame for the decision but, I know why the decision was made and it's really that what we have to offer at George Fox University is a small private Christian University  and what we are offering in education is more than just going to class. And so it's really a life-forming experience right. There's a  life transformation that we want to be happening and that has to do with your classes and all the spiritual life types of things that happen on campus and all the activities and the sports teams and right. It is a life transforming experience and so going to zoom means oh you're going to get your classes but it's not the whole experience that George Fox is trying to put together and so it was the decision was made very carefully of course but also recognizing that we really want to be able to give people that whole transformative experience.

Doug: Yeah, I think that. So I am 100 percent in agreement with that because yeah I think that it's at least I guess you. To me it's like if you're gonna because if you're only going to learn over zoom then you might as well just watch stuff on youtube because the effect is going to be pretty much the same. Because yeah, I think the transformative effect of school has to do with the internet is the interaction with other people. It's I mean just yeah just the content you can find on the internet for free. It's the internet. It’s interaction that really makes the difference you know. That’s the thing that’s going to you know that will help people to become transformative people to develop and implement ideas to be able to influence people to  adopt the course of action. That's at least.

Debby: Yeah.

Doug: That's one of the things that I found in my career is that coming up with good ideas is not that hard. Influencing other people to implement an idea that isn't theirs is extremely hard.

Debby: Right and you know Doug one of the interesting  things is we went face to face for the very purpose of being together and experiencing things together and yet we had so many restrictions on us right.

Doug:...

Doug talks with Josh Duder - The Executive Director of the Chehalem Valley Chamber of Commerce about the importance of buying local and local entrepreneurs to a vibrant economy.

In addition, entrepreneurs have the courage to fail and the tenacity to start over until they find success. As we go through the impacts of COVID, many local entrepreneurs are figuring out how to adapt to the economic hardships brought on by the shutdown orders.

One of the ways we can all help is to prioritize shopping and dining locally so that we support the people in our community in their efforts to drive a recovery.

Another item that Doug and Josh shared in common is that they both served in the US Marine Corps concurrently at the 6th Engineer Support Battalion HQ in Portland, OR.

You can connect with Josh at: [email protected]

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results. 

You can find out more at www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Welcome to the terminal value podcast. I have Josh Duder on with us and so Josh I actually share a connection that you might not know. But just by looking at us  since we're both old now but we both served in the marines. The marine corps me and the reserve Josh is a permanent personnel at a very similar time. Josh has a far more cool marine background than I do. I think I spent my whole time as a reservist and he did cool stuff like  you know fast rope insertions out of helicopters into buildings. But right now Josh is the executive director for the Shah Alam Valley Chamber of Commerce. Josh told me did I say that right.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. Good, good one. It is the executive director the previous three people that were the executive position were considered the CEO and with the last turnover the board of directors wanted to make a title change just to sort of go with a culture change and that isn't it detract from the efforts of the last person but maybe it's a it's an effort to re-engage with the board.

Doug: Yeah.

Josh: And encourage them to feel enfranchised.

Doug: Gotcha, gotcha. Well so one of the things that Josh and I would like to talk about today because of course I'm a member of the Chamber of Commerce also one of the chamber ambassadors but what Josh and I would like to talk about is just the importance of local business, the local economy and local entrepreneurs. You know one of the things that I’m an art believer in is that reality happens locally. I know that whenever, If you go on Facebook or any of the other news sites you're going to see national global whatever. If you're in the state of Oregon like we are you'll see stuff from the governor's office all the time...

Insurance is a topic that most people avoid talking about because it feels very boring and involves the thought of loss.

The thing that people need to understand is that Insurance is a necessary part of life and that strange things have a way of happening at very unfortunate times. This means that being prepared for catastrophic events is a critical part of life.

To be properly prepared, we must first become educated. Kevin and Doug talk about how insurance works and provide some practical tips for optimizing your profile to ensure you carry the coverage you need at the lowest total cost possible.

Kevin Baty is a broker for Hagen Hamilton Insurance Solutions. Connect with him at: [email protected]

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results. 

You can find out more at  www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Here and Kevin Baty has the auspicious honor or maybe you wouldn't say it that way.  Depending on who you are of being my insurance agent because we are going to talk about some insurance dynamics today because in my conversations with Kevin I actually learned a lot of things that were a little counterintuitive and I thought that those would be good things to share with people just because you know insurance is kind of you know a murky subject and a lot of people feel like it's pretty boring. And you know while it's not necessarily the thing that lights everybody's fire so to speak. There are some insurance things that you really should know about and I'm just gonna let one of the cats out of the bag first. The one that surprised me the most is if you see a deer crossing the road instead of swerving you're actually supposed to just plow right into the deer because if you swerve and hit a tree that's a collision claim that goes on your record. If you just hit the deer that's a comprehensive claim that doesn't change your rates and I know about that thanks to this guy right here. Kevin welcome to the terminal value podcast. 

Kevin: Thanks for having me Doug, very excited to be here and yeah the misnomer with a deer like I mean you feel for it. You don't want to.

Doug: Oh right.

Kevin: Damage your vehicle or anything but you know it's kind of tough to tell clients that if you see a deer on the road and you can't stop you just have to plow through it for your insurance safety pretty much because if you plow right through it's covered under comprehensive coverage and you know. Yes it's a claim but there's not a surcharge with it like there would be is if you left the roadway to swerve to miss a deer and you total your vehicle anyways well now it's an at-fault accident because you left the roadway. So lots of claims...

Career changes are an inevitable part of life. The way we deal with these transitions will guide the way our life unfolds.

Doug and Michelle discuss the dynamics of careers in the current economic environment and the factors that press many people into career transitions.

When these career transition points come, it is important to embrace the challenge with an open mind and can-do attitude. Michelle helps people who are going through career changes to find entrepreneurial opportunities that are a fit for their personal and professional background.

You can connect with Michelle at [email protected]

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results. 

You can find out more at www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Welcome to the terminal value podcast, I have Michelle Charles on the line. Michelle is actually an entrepreneurial career consultant. And she has the auspicious honor of being the person who initially presented expense reduction analysts to me, which of course is my core business and helping companies, nonprofits, education institutions, reduce their overhead costs, you know, without you know, without needing to resort to layoffs to do it. And so Michelle actually brought her on line, because we're going to talk today about about people's career, and the, you know, the the bumps in the road that a lot of people run into. Michelle, please tell us about yourself a little bit.

Michelle: Oh, hi. Hi. Great to be here. Thank you, Doug. Well, I am a career or worship coach, I grew up, I was born in a tiny island about Trinidad in the West Indies, migrated to the United States, I eventually joined the military. And once I retired to the military, I was living my next step, after 25 years, and I decided, you know, I always had an entrepreneurial drive the motivations for, that's what I wanted to do. And that's where I started exploring Priyanka. And I found a path that led me to, that's quite my life. 

Doug: Yeah, that's outstanding. Yes. And first of all, for 25 years, and it was in the army, correct? 

Michelle: Correct. Yes. 25 years.

Doug: 25 years, the US Army, thank you very much for your service, and quite a bit of it at that.

Michelle: Thank you, as well to your service.

Doug: I guess so yes, I was also in the Marine Corps Reserve, not for 25 years only for six. But but still those. Those can be long years? 

Michelle:  Oh. Definitely. 

Doug: So Michelle, tell us a little a little bit about some of the things that you've observed in, in helping career coach people. I mean, just because I

Doug and Kristi discuss the impact of profiling in the data sets used to train algorithms and the extended impact to decision making.

This is a topic of particular interest to both of us due to our respective passion for data analytics. One of the most prescient points that comes out of the discussion is true degree of difficulty for creating an objective data set for the purpose of training predictive algorithms.

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results. 

You can find out more at www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Okay, welcome to the terminal value podcast. I have Kristi Yuthas, on the line or with us today and Kristi and I actually worked together a couple of years ago, teaching a finance information systems class at Portland state university. And Kristi  is very generously, even wanting to talk to me again after that experience, which I thank her greatly for. And what we would like to talk about today is actually analytics, particularly the advent of profiling or racism and analytics and what we can do about it. Kristi, welcome.

Kristi: Thank you, Doug. And let me just say, I miss you in the classroom. That’s really fun.

Doug: It was, it was a very, it was, it was very illustrative. It was my first time teaching a class and I had, I came in with these great, these, these great thoughts of students who will be yearning for knowledge. What I found was that, not all but many really just wanted an instruction sheet for getting an A, so they could get out of class and go on.

Kristi: You know but I were, the that was the most dynamic, the night class. I’ve seen you know, these kids work all day. They go to class at night.

Doug: Yeah.

Kristi: And you just kept me and everybody else.

Doug: Yes, I remember I did tell a lot of stories. 

Kristi: Great.

Doug: Yeah, that, that, that class was a lot of fun. We will definitely have to find, find some time to teach together again in the near future. But one of the things that, Kristi  has been doing quite a bit of work with is accounting analytics, because I think the data science of course, is really pervading everywhere really. But I think data science is getting is becoming especially important in the accounting profession because it's thing it's, you know, it's really impactful in ways how different ways to, you know, either forecast results or to test for potential control gaps or test for fraud. But that's actually not what we're going to talk about today. What we're going to talk about today is the place where data and analytics can actually get us into trouble because there've been some times when analytic algorithms have actually resulted in profiling, that...

Independent Journalism is a critically important part of maintaining a democratic society. Unfortunately, it seems that media has become increasingly dominated by a handful of major corporations and technology companies.

In many cases, local journalism is the only remaining bridge to create an independent voice. Doug and Mark talk about the dynamics of local journalism and its importance to the community's overall health.

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to capture overhead cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results.

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Welcome to the terminal value podcast. I have Mark Garber with us. Mark is the chief publisher for Pamplin Media Group, which is a local media chain, I think you'd say for the Portland metropolitan area. And Mark and I are here today to talk about the importance of local journalism, not just to the Portland area, but really to pretty much any area. Mark, welcome to the show. And thank you for coming on.

Mark: Thanks, Doug. Glad to be here.

Doug: So tell me a little bit how has the pimply Media Group been, you know, how is the vault? Everybody wants to talk about COVID. But just in general, the, you know, the technical turmoil, the technology turmoil that's been happening for the last 15 years. How is this impacted? pamphlet? Because, of course, it's a diversified set of newspaper news publications, but there has to have been an impact.

Mark: Oh, yeah, the technology, as you know, dramatically changed what we do. And local journalism. And you know, it really goes back, Doug for 25, 30 years. If you think back to the very beginnings of, of online content, and newspapers, actually, were some of the first entities to jump into online news. You know, I started publishing news online. 

Doug: Yeah.

Mark: And so we were really competing with ourselves for a number of years in terms of giving our product away.

Doug: Yeah.

Mark: Online while we were still charging people to read it in print. So but you're right, that is really accelerated. I'd say, you know, since you know, the mid 2000s. 

Doug: Yeah. 

Mark: It's really changed the newspaper world. And we actually, with our 25, local newspapers, we have more people now, who read us digitally than who read us in print, we still have, you know, hundreds of 1000s of people read us and brand.

Doug: Yeah. 

Mark: But we have more than that, who read us online?

Doug: Yeah. yeah, that's, and yeah, I mean, what are some of the adaptations even making I mean, because, you know, I think, you know, of course, we'll get to the importance of the local journalism, because I obviously think it's important because I subscribe to the local journalists, and, you know, and to the, I actually do the all digital all access package, to subscribe, not just to the Portland Tribune and the Newburgh graphic, which is where I live, but also the broader Metropolitan papers, just because I think it's really important to understand what's happening in the different local communities. Just, you know, that tell me a little bit about, you know, just kind of a about the adaptations that Pamplin has made to, you know, to stay in the game.

Mark: Yeah, and

To many people, faith and religion are the same thing. This is certainly true some of the time, but not in every situation.

Doug and Craig spoke the perspective of faith as deep belief and the way that belief can truly bring people together even if the nature of their beliefs are different. When we take this broader view of faith-based organizations, it becomes apparent that nearly everybody is engaged in some form of faith-based endeavor.

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results. 

You can find out more at www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Welcome to the terminal value podcast, I have Craig Carter on the line. And Craig has the auspicious notoriety of being my former boss when I worked at Intel. But that's actually not what we're here, what we're here to talk about today, what we're here to talk about is Craig's life passion, which is running a face faith based organization within the Intel network. And in particular, what I'd like to talk about today is that, of course, the political environment is crazy right now. And you're trying to really stick to your mission of a faith based organization while navigating that political environment. Craig, welcome. And thank you for your time. 

Craig: Well, thanks Doug. It's good to be here.

Doug: So just tell us some of the experiences you've been having, you know, because of course, right, you know, the, there's, you know, it's interesting how what happens in the media is you always only see the crazy people on the media, you don't ever see, hey, these are normal people wanting to help people get through the the travails of their life that they feel like they can't talk about talk to anybody about that's not interesting. So nobody posts articles about that. 

Craig: True.

Doug: That's probably 99% of what you do. But of course, the the things you're going to hear are somebody who makes some sort of, you know, horrendously offensive racial remark, and people say, that's so terrible. And it's like, Well, okay, okay. Yes, it is terrible, but it's not representative of everybody who have a particular face. 

Craig: True.

Doug: I'm you You must have been dealing with this, Craig. Actually, I know you've been dealing with it, because we've been talking.

Craig: Yes absolutely.

Doug: To you a softball question.

Craig: We've you. We've been talking a lot over the years. So let me maybe give a quick recap. And that can kind of walk into this. And then we can take it from there, Doug. So I've been involved with the different Christian groups.

Doug: Yeah.

Craig: Here at Intel for probably two decades or so....

Om and Doug talk about key dates regarding open enrollment, changes that have been made to the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and resources for finding help.

You can connect with Om at www.chehaleminsurance.com

YouTube Video of Episode: https://youtu.be/cLhpqqtiScs

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to capture overhead cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results.

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Okay, welcome to the terminal value podcast. I have a guest with me. Her name is Om. And I met her at the local Chamber of Commerce for Shah Alam Valley, which is where we both live. And we actually have a very timely topic today, which is health insurance and open enrollment. So because open enrollment, oh, you can tell us when open enrollment runs, particularly, but there are a lot of insurance. There's a lot of insurance information and acumen that people need to have. Because the old days of everybody having insurance through their employer kind of disappearing. I mean, some people still get insurance through their employer, but some people are in the gig economy. Some people are entrepreneurs, some people retire early and say, you know, they're 58 years old, and they don't qualify for Medicare yet. Well, if you don't know what's going on with insurance, that can be that can be really daunting. Because I know speaking for myself, you know, going through the entrepreneur finding insurance process, it's a lot of work. And it's really expensive. And a lot of times your coverage isn't all that good. So on Please introduce yourself. Yeah, help everybody gain some awareness here.

Om: Thank you so much, Doug. And good afternoon, everyone. This is om Sukheenai. My agency name is Chilean insurance associates. And so happy to be here. You mentioned about the open enrollment, it is very timely, because if we divide into two groups, one is 65. And up, we call manual enrollment period, and therefore people have Medicare. And that begins on October 15. And run to December 7, that people who are on Medicare Advantage plan on prescription drugs can change their plan, looking into going back to original Medicare, or you know, do something different that suit their needs. But for 64 order to Sarah or newborn baby, this is the also call open enrollment period will begin on November 1 to and run through December 15. Once YouTube meets this deadline of either December 7 465. Enough or December 15. And you're kind of out of luck.

Doug: Okay, well, well. So what are some of the things that people really need to keep in mind? Because, I mean, you even if you have employer sponsored health care, I'm sure there's things that you still need to keep in mind. So what should people make sure to be doing before the year is over Om?

Om: So there's the things you know, I think, Doug we have to come into why people need health insurance, even though there is no penalty for people to have health insurance. Health insurance people like you entrepreneurs, you just said you need it because is kind of like air to breathe, who know was something the what is gonna happen to you. And once you have the health insurance or health coverage, the financial burdens kind

Doug and Brandon spoke about the impacts that COVID and the related lockdowns have had on employers and job seekers. They also explore what can be done by leaders to ensure their companies recover into a bright future.

COVID has certainly been the watershed event of this year. The impacts to the economy and people's mental health are all but certain to persist for years or decades.

Learn more at https://www.brandonlaws.com

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results.

You can find out more at www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Okay, I'd like to welcome Brandon Laws to the show today. Brandon is actually the Senior Director of Marketing. That senior part is really important. 

Brandon: So Important.

Doug: It's so important.

Brandon: Don't forget

Doug: For the viewers at home, Brandon, I have known each other for a really, really long time. I originally got him into into authors like Tony Robbins and Napoleon Hill, and, you know, got them turn them into econ dork, just like me.

Brandon: Yes.

Doug: Brandon and I are here to talk about is the dynamics of COVID for both job seekers and employers, because it's really kind of throwing everybody's life into a tornado.

Brandon: Yes.

Doug: And I think a lot of people are kind of grasping trying to figure out what to do. So Brandon, can I take it away.

Brandon: Well, I appreciate you having me on. Glad to be on your, your podcast. I I've been working in the HR space for 12 years now in a marketing role.

Doug: It’s been that long?

Brandon: It's been well October's 12 years. Yeah, I started in 2008, when, when everything was kind of hitting the fan, with the Great Recession and so.

Doug: I said everything hit the fan. 

Brandon: Right, right. And then and then it's happening again, and I'm sort of seeing this play out in more of a senior role, like, I'm looking at it from what's important to employers right now, what's important to employees.

Doug: Yeah.

Brandon: And we're trying to kind of bridge that gap, because it's really chaotic. Employers are scared employees don't know if they're gonna have jobs. It's, it's an interesting time right now, to say the least. 

Doug: Well I mean yeah, let's start from the employer perspective. Because, yeah, because of course, right. You know, the, I think a lot of people who listening will be will be employees, but I don't know, a lot of people listening will be senior decision makers also. So to from an...