Second Life Leader

Insurance is a topic that most people avoid talking about because it feels very boring and involves the thought of loss.

The thing that people need to understand is that Insurance is a necessary part of life and that strange things have a way of happening at very unfortunate times. This means that being prepared for catastrophic events is a critical part of life.

To be properly prepared, we must first become educated. Kevin and Doug talk about how insurance works and provide some practical tips for optimizing your profile to ensure you carry the coverage you need at the lowest total cost possible.

Kevin Baty is a broker for Hagen Hamilton Insurance Solutions. Connect with him at: [email protected]

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results. 

You can find out more at  www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Here and Kevin Baty has the auspicious honor or maybe you wouldn't say it that way.  Depending on who you are of being my insurance agent because we are going to talk about some insurance dynamics today because in my conversations with Kevin I actually learned a lot of things that were a little counterintuitive and I thought that those would be good things to share with people just because you know insurance is kind of you know a murky subject and a lot of people feel like it's pretty boring. And you know while it's not necessarily the thing that lights everybody's fire so to speak. There are some insurance things that you really should know about and I'm just gonna let one of the cats out of the bag first. The one that surprised me the most is if you see a deer crossing the road instead of swerving you're actually supposed to just plow right into the deer because if you swerve and hit a tree that's a collision claim that goes on your record. If you just hit the deer that's a comprehensive claim that doesn't change your rates and I know about that thanks to this guy right here. Kevin welcome to the terminal value podcast. 

Kevin: Thanks for having me Doug, very excited to be here and yeah the misnomer with a deer like I mean you feel for it. You don't want to.

Doug: Oh right.

Kevin: Damage your vehicle or anything but you know it's kind of tough to tell clients that if you see a deer on the road and you can't stop you just have to plow through it for your insurance safety pretty much because if you plow right through it's covered under comprehensive coverage and you know. Yes it's a claim but there's not a surcharge with it like there would be is if you left the roadway to swerve to miss a deer and you total your vehicle anyways well now it's an at-fault accident because you left the roadway. So lots of claims...

Career changes are an inevitable part of life. The way we deal with these transitions will guide the way our life unfolds.

Doug and Michelle discuss the dynamics of careers in the current economic environment and the factors that press many people into career transitions.

When these career transition points come, it is important to embrace the challenge with an open mind and can-do attitude. Michelle helps people who are going through career changes to find entrepreneurial opportunities that are a fit for their personal and professional background.

You can connect with Michelle at [email protected]

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results. 

You can find out more at www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Welcome to the terminal value podcast, I have Michelle Charles on the line. Michelle is actually an entrepreneurial career consultant. And she has the auspicious honor of being the person who initially presented expense reduction analysts to me, which of course is my core business and helping companies, nonprofits, education institutions, reduce their overhead costs, you know, without you know, without needing to resort to layoffs to do it. And so Michelle actually brought her on line, because we're going to talk today about about people's career, and the, you know, the the bumps in the road that a lot of people run into. Michelle, please tell us about yourself a little bit.

Michelle: Oh, hi. Hi. Great to be here. Thank you, Doug. Well, I am a career or worship coach, I grew up, I was born in a tiny island about Trinidad in the West Indies, migrated to the United States, I eventually joined the military. And once I retired to the military, I was living my next step, after 25 years, and I decided, you know, I always had an entrepreneurial drive the motivations for, that's what I wanted to do. And that's where I started exploring Priyanka. And I found a path that led me to, that's quite my life. 

Doug: Yeah, that's outstanding. Yes. And first of all, for 25 years, and it was in the army, correct? 

Michelle: Correct. Yes. 25 years.

Doug: 25 years, the US Army, thank you very much for your service, and quite a bit of it at that.

Michelle: Thank you, as well to your service.

Doug: I guess so yes, I was also in the Marine Corps Reserve, not for 25 years only for six. But but still those. Those can be long years? 

Michelle:  Oh. Definitely. 

Doug: So Michelle, tell us a little a little bit about some of the things that you've observed in, in helping career coach people. I mean, just because I

Doug and Kristi discuss the impact of profiling in the data sets used to train algorithms and the extended impact to decision making.

This is a topic of particular interest to both of us due to our respective passion for data analytics. One of the most prescient points that comes out of the discussion is true degree of difficulty for creating an objective data set for the purpose of training predictive algorithms.

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results. 

You can find out more at www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Okay, welcome to the terminal value podcast. I have Kristi Yuthas, on the line or with us today and Kristi and I actually worked together a couple of years ago, teaching a finance information systems class at Portland state university. And Kristi  is very generously, even wanting to talk to me again after that experience, which I thank her greatly for. And what we would like to talk about today is actually analytics, particularly the advent of profiling or racism and analytics and what we can do about it. Kristi, welcome.

Kristi: Thank you, Doug. And let me just say, I miss you in the classroom. That’s really fun.

Doug: It was, it was a very, it was, it was very illustrative. It was my first time teaching a class and I had, I came in with these great, these, these great thoughts of students who will be yearning for knowledge. What I found was that, not all but many really just wanted an instruction sheet for getting an A, so they could get out of class and go on.

Kristi: You know but I were, the that was the most dynamic, the night class. I’ve seen you know, these kids work all day. They go to class at night.

Doug: Yeah.

Kristi: And you just kept me and everybody else.

Doug: Yes, I remember I did tell a lot of stories. 

Kristi: Great.

Doug: Yeah, that, that, that class was a lot of fun. We will definitely have to find, find some time to teach together again in the near future. But one of the things that, Kristi  has been doing quite a bit of work with is accounting analytics, because I think the data science of course, is really pervading everywhere really. But I think data science is getting is becoming especially important in the accounting profession because it's thing it's, you know, it's really impactful in ways how different ways to, you know, either forecast results or to test for potential control gaps or test for fraud. But that's actually not what we're going to talk about today. What we're going to talk about today is the place where data and analytics can actually get us into trouble because there've been some times when analytic algorithms have actually resulted in profiling, that...

Independent Journalism is a critically important part of maintaining a democratic society. Unfortunately, it seems that media has become increasingly dominated by a handful of major corporations and technology companies.

In many cases, local journalism is the only remaining bridge to create an independent voice. Doug and Mark talk about the dynamics of local journalism and its importance to the community's overall health.

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to capture overhead cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results.

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Welcome to the terminal value podcast. I have Mark Garber with us. Mark is the chief publisher for Pamplin Media Group, which is a local media chain, I think you'd say for the Portland metropolitan area. And Mark and I are here today to talk about the importance of local journalism, not just to the Portland area, but really to pretty much any area. Mark, welcome to the show. And thank you for coming on.

Mark: Thanks, Doug. Glad to be here.

Doug: So tell me a little bit how has the pimply Media Group been, you know, how is the vault? Everybody wants to talk about COVID. But just in general, the, you know, the technical turmoil, the technology turmoil that's been happening for the last 15 years. How is this impacted? pamphlet? Because, of course, it's a diversified set of newspaper news publications, but there has to have been an impact.

Mark: Oh, yeah, the technology, as you know, dramatically changed what we do. And local journalism. And you know, it really goes back, Doug for 25, 30 years. If you think back to the very beginnings of, of online content, and newspapers, actually, were some of the first entities to jump into online news. You know, I started publishing news online. 

Doug: Yeah.

Mark: And so we were really competing with ourselves for a number of years in terms of giving our product away.

Doug: Yeah.

Mark: Online while we were still charging people to read it in print. So but you're right, that is really accelerated. I'd say, you know, since you know, the mid 2000s. 

Doug: Yeah. 

Mark: It's really changed the newspaper world. And we actually, with our 25, local newspapers, we have more people now, who read us digitally than who read us in print, we still have, you know, hundreds of 1000s of people read us and brand.

Doug: Yeah. 

Mark: But we have more than that, who read us online?

Doug: Yeah. yeah, that's, and yeah, I mean, what are some of the adaptations even making I mean, because, you know, I think, you know, of course, we'll get to the importance of the local journalism, because I obviously think it's important because I subscribe to the local journalists, and, you know, and to the, I actually do the all digital all access package, to subscribe, not just to the Portland Tribune and the Newburgh graphic, which is where I live, but also the broader Metropolitan papers, just because I think it's really important to understand what's happening in the different local communities. Just, you know, that tell me a little bit about, you know, just kind of a about the adaptations that Pamplin has made to, you know, to stay in the game.

Mark: Yeah, and

To many people, faith and religion are the same thing. This is certainly true some of the time, but not in every situation.

Doug and Craig spoke the perspective of faith as deep belief and the way that belief can truly bring people together even if the nature of their beliefs are different. When we take this broader view of faith-based organizations, it becomes apparent that nearly everybody is engaged in some form of faith-based endeavor.

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results. 

You can find out more at www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Welcome to the terminal value podcast, I have Craig Carter on the line. And Craig has the auspicious notoriety of being my former boss when I worked at Intel. But that's actually not what we're here, what we're here to talk about today, what we're here to talk about is Craig's life passion, which is running a face faith based organization within the Intel network. And in particular, what I'd like to talk about today is that, of course, the political environment is crazy right now. And you're trying to really stick to your mission of a faith based organization while navigating that political environment. Craig, welcome. And thank you for your time. 

Craig: Well, thanks Doug. It's good to be here.

Doug: So just tell us some of the experiences you've been having, you know, because of course, right, you know, the, there's, you know, it's interesting how what happens in the media is you always only see the crazy people on the media, you don't ever see, hey, these are normal people wanting to help people get through the the travails of their life that they feel like they can't talk about talk to anybody about that's not interesting. So nobody posts articles about that. 

Craig: True.

Doug: That's probably 99% of what you do. But of course, the the things you're going to hear are somebody who makes some sort of, you know, horrendously offensive racial remark, and people say, that's so terrible. And it's like, Well, okay, okay. Yes, it is terrible, but it's not representative of everybody who have a particular face. 

Craig: True.

Doug: I'm you You must have been dealing with this, Craig. Actually, I know you've been dealing with it, because we've been talking.

Craig: Yes absolutely.

Doug: To you a softball question.

Craig: We've you. We've been talking a lot over the years. So let me maybe give a quick recap. And that can kind of walk into this. And then we can take it from there, Doug. So I've been involved with the different Christian groups.

Doug: Yeah.

Craig: Here at Intel for probably two decades or so....

Om and Doug talk about key dates regarding open enrollment, changes that have been made to the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and resources for finding help.

You can connect with Om at www.chehaleminsurance.com

YouTube Video of Episode: https://youtu.be/cLhpqqtiScs

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to capture overhead cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results.

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Okay, welcome to the terminal value podcast. I have a guest with me. Her name is Om. And I met her at the local Chamber of Commerce for Shah Alam Valley, which is where we both live. And we actually have a very timely topic today, which is health insurance and open enrollment. So because open enrollment, oh, you can tell us when open enrollment runs, particularly, but there are a lot of insurance. There's a lot of insurance information and acumen that people need to have. Because the old days of everybody having insurance through their employer kind of disappearing. I mean, some people still get insurance through their employer, but some people are in the gig economy. Some people are entrepreneurs, some people retire early and say, you know, they're 58 years old, and they don't qualify for Medicare yet. Well, if you don't know what's going on with insurance, that can be that can be really daunting. Because I know speaking for myself, you know, going through the entrepreneur finding insurance process, it's a lot of work. And it's really expensive. And a lot of times your coverage isn't all that good. So on Please introduce yourself. Yeah, help everybody gain some awareness here.

Om: Thank you so much, Doug. And good afternoon, everyone. This is om Sukheenai. My agency name is Chilean insurance associates. And so happy to be here. You mentioned about the open enrollment, it is very timely, because if we divide into two groups, one is 65. And up, we call manual enrollment period, and therefore people have Medicare. And that begins on October 15. And run to December 7, that people who are on Medicare Advantage plan on prescription drugs can change their plan, looking into going back to original Medicare, or you know, do something different that suit their needs. But for 64 order to Sarah or newborn baby, this is the also call open enrollment period will begin on November 1 to and run through December 15. Once YouTube meets this deadline of either December 7 465. Enough or December 15. And you're kind of out of luck.

Doug: Okay, well, well. So what are some of the things that people really need to keep in mind? Because, I mean, you even if you have employer sponsored health care, I'm sure there's things that you still need to keep in mind. So what should people make sure to be doing before the year is over Om?

Om: So there's the things you know, I think, Doug we have to come into why people need health insurance, even though there is no penalty for people to have health insurance. Health insurance people like you entrepreneurs, you just said you need it because is kind of like air to breathe, who know was something the what is gonna happen to you. And once you have the health insurance or health coverage, the financial burdens kind

Doug and Brandon spoke about the impacts that COVID and the related lockdowns have had on employers and job seekers. They also explore what can be done by leaders to ensure their companies recover into a bright future.

COVID has certainly been the watershed event of this year. The impacts to the economy and people's mental health are all but certain to persist for years or decades.

Learn more at https://www.brandonlaws.com

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results.

You can find out more at www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Okay, I'd like to welcome Brandon Laws to the show today. Brandon is actually the Senior Director of Marketing. That senior part is really important. 

Brandon: So Important.

Doug: It's so important.

Brandon: Don't forget

Doug: For the viewers at home, Brandon, I have known each other for a really, really long time. I originally got him into into authors like Tony Robbins and Napoleon Hill, and, you know, got them turn them into econ dork, just like me.

Brandon: Yes.

Doug: Brandon and I are here to talk about is the dynamics of COVID for both job seekers and employers, because it's really kind of throwing everybody's life into a tornado.

Brandon: Yes.

Doug: And I think a lot of people are kind of grasping trying to figure out what to do. So Brandon, can I take it away.

Brandon: Well, I appreciate you having me on. Glad to be on your, your podcast. I I've been working in the HR space for 12 years now in a marketing role.

Doug: It’s been that long?

Brandon: It's been well October's 12 years. Yeah, I started in 2008, when, when everything was kind of hitting the fan, with the Great Recession and so.

Doug: I said everything hit the fan. 

Brandon: Right, right. And then and then it's happening again, and I'm sort of seeing this play out in more of a senior role, like, I'm looking at it from what's important to employers right now, what's important to employees.

Doug: Yeah.

Brandon: And we're trying to kind of bridge that gap, because it's really chaotic. Employers are scared employees don't know if they're gonna have jobs. It's, it's an interesting time right now, to say the least. 

Doug: Well I mean yeah, let's start from the employer perspective. Because, yeah, because of course, right. You know, the, I think a lot of people who listening will be will be employees, but I don't know, a lot of people listening will be senior decision makers also. So to from an...

Doug and Shannon Buckmaster talk about public-private partnerships and the importance of community.

Shannon is the Economic Development Manager in the town of Newberg where Doug currently lives.

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results. 

You can find out more at www.TerminalValue.biz

You can find the audio podcast feed at www.TerminalValuePodcast.com

You can find the video podcast feed at www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Welcome to the total value podcast. I'm Doug Utberg and I have Shannon Buckmaster with me from the city of Newberg. And now for those of you who know me, Newberg is where I live. For those of you who don't know me, Newberg is where I live and it's a smaller town. It's not a tiny town, but it's live, it's South of Portland. And most people who don't live in the area don't know about it. But I happen to think that it is the best town on the face of the planet. I'm certain Shannon would agree. And one of the things that I wanted to do was to talk with everybody just about, you know, about what the local experience is like, because in the corporate media, everybody hears about everybody hears about the big cities that people have been hearing about Portland because of fires and protests and things like that. but real life happens locally. And so that's one of the reasons why I really like to bring a local flavor. So Shan please introduce yourself a little bit, help everybody, help everybody to understand why we all love Newberg so much.

Shannon: Well, thank you for inviting me Doug. I'm pleased to join you this afternoon and highlight our lovely little community, which is a growing community, right? We're located in Yamhill County. 

Doug: Yeah.

Shannon: We're bordered by three, officially two Metro counties, Marion County and Washington County, but we're also very close to Multnomah Clackamas County. 

Doug: Yap.

Shannon: So we're really kind of the first rural experience when you're coming out of the Portland area. When you come down Rex Hill and you see all the, all the vineyards and the hospital and our cute little downtown area coming up, like that's really your gateway into the rural wine country experience and it's on your way to the coast. So I'm sure you all have been through Newberg. You may not have really thought about it on your, on your way through. 

Doug: Yeah.

Shannon: We are down with about 24,000 people here so far, we're growing so rapidly. Actually. I just heard an estimate that we're expected to maybe have around 50,000 people in our town by 2070.

Doug: Yes. Yap. That's quite a year.

Shannon: Seems like it's forever away, but the older I get the faster time goes, so basically tomorrow, we have some.

Doug: Yeah exactly.

Shannon:...

The state of higher education is changing dramatically.

The 'adjunct' role in teaching classes is becoming an item of necessity for Universities to stay cost competitive. Unfortunately, the rate of pay for many adjuncts is extremely low.

Doug and Jacob explore the situation and impacts to the broader health of higher education.

YouTube Video of Episode: https://youtu.be/PguZK0qn9cM

Doug helps businesses and non-profits optimize their overhead costs so that more capital can be invested in accomplishing their mission. Schedule time with Doug at www.MeetDoug.Biz.

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Okay, everybody welcome to the terminal value podcast. I have Jacob Richman on the line here. And so the way that I know Jacob is we're actually both adjuncts at Portland state university. He probably adjuncts more actively than I did because I taught a class on finance information systems a couple of years ago. And then Jacob reached out to me to help with observing for the labor negotiations with the Portland state faculty. And he's actually a really, really interesting guy. He, in addition to his adjuncting, he's also done quite a bit of work with homeless advocacy and community art. And because one of the things that I really like to do with terminal value is just to bring a light onto just the uniqueness that people, you know, the uniqueness of people because I think that a lot of times there's a tendency to categorize people into you know, sort of one pigeonholed in one box or another, and there's not really any boxes everybody's really unique. And I think that it's, it's really illustrative to learn about that uniqueness. So Jacob welcome.

Jacob: Well, thank you for having me, Doug. It's I'm so glad to be here.

Doug: Yeah. And now I have to say, just speaking for myself, I found it a very unique and illustrative to be observing the negotiation process between the adjuncts and the faculty, because of course, right. You know, and in my semi simplistic mind, I think, okay. You know, Portland state, you know, progressive university, they're probably going to be really, really in favor of making sure that everybody's fairly represented and like, you know, but it is, you know, that is not the way that it works at all.

Jacob: No, unfortunately not.

Doug:  Yeah, there, there, you know, there, there, there was very much an upstairs and a downstairs in effect here.

Jacob:  Absolutely. And it's a little illustrative of the whole American higher education system as that the adjunctification of faculty throughout the country. Um, so I don't know if it's, if it's worth giving a sort of heads up, if folks have no idea what an adjunct faculty person even is or.

Doug: Jacob the Floor is yours. Yeah. Take the next two minutes. 

Jacob: Sure. Well, an adjunct faculty at a university or college is a part-time faculty person somebody who teaches a few courses or teach even a lot of courses, but it's through different hourly or credits requirements kept under full-time level. They are generally paid very little. They are almost entirely as a case that they're not paid, they're not, they don't have healthcare or other benefits. And it's not just as a small group. It's the majority of, of courses. And certainly the majority of students cause they tend to...

Sales skills are a part of life. Doug and Graham talk about some important points related to selling and sales skills to help everybody achieve more.

YouTube Video of Episode: https://youtu.be/wVBFRVDDMd8

Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to capture overhead cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results.

Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business at www.MeetDoug.Biz

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[Music]

[Introduction]

Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC.

Doug: Welcome, everybody. We have Graham Phelps on the line. Graham is from the United Kingdom. And he has one of the coolest accents I have ever heard. He actually works with me as an expense reduction analyst to help companies not just cut their cost, but really optimize their cost structure. So it's more than just negotiating low contracts. But it's really about making sure to monitor all those processes, so that nobody gets any sneaky costs slipped in on by the vendors, our grant, how are you doing?

Graham: Oh, wow. Thank you, Doug. I'm very well, and thanks for the flattery compliment. Get you everywhere with me? Absolutely. Pleasure to be here. Very good to take, take this time an opportunity to share some ideas with your listeners. 

Doug: Absolutely. And so Graham is a very humble guy, but he is actually a, he's exceptional at sales, training. And grant, one things I'd love to do would be if you could share some of your insights about what makes people succeed in sales, because he's actually far more experienced. And he looks I'm not going to give away your age grant. But some of his stories will. But he this man has a wealth of experience and wanted to share some of that with our viewers and listeners.

Graham: Okay, well, I suppose one of the things that I've learned most in the last 10 15 years is a realization that the more you try and sell things to people, the less they want to buy from you. And, and also that your role as a salesperson, when I started, no, 30 40 years ago, there was no internet, it was brochures, and what you could find out from asking around, but you know, 15 minutes before you turn up on the screen, they've gone through your website, they've googled your company, your product, they know more about you than you do, for goodness sake, right. So you've got to add value in a different way. Today, it's not just about knowledge and information. And you have to take that role as a consultant, and you have to go in and do a diagnostic of where you can help them and identify they're not just physical needs, but their emotional and psychological thought process of how they make a decision for your product or service. And that's when choosing a new accountant or choosing where to buy a sandwich at lunchtime.

Doug: I mean, I think that's, that's actually really profound, just because what it fundamentally means is that the model for sales is probably in the midst of shifting, you know, because of course, right, you know, you'll you get a lot of people who like to play around on social media who say that, you know, calling is dead. I don't think calling is ever going to be dead. But I think the way that people close sales are really going to be shifting over the next few years.

Graham: Yeah.

Doug: That's, that's just something that I find completely intriguing. Just because, of...