Serious Vintage

For episode 39, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) talk about the role of planeswalkers in Vintage, speculate baselessly about some new cards in War of the Spark, and discuss sous vide and other novel methods of cooking.

I want to start the writeup with a lament, actually, for the loss of Morphling.de. That website was a longtime store of Vintage decks and knowledge from the paper and early online days of the format, going back to 2002. I did a lot of research there for articles and podcasts and considered it a great source for questions like “Who was the first person to top eight with Rage Extractor?” and “Is there a recent 5C Stax list?” The archives are still available, but they’re not searchable. It’s a blow to people like us who enjoy the historical perspective.

At least the archives of The Mana Drain are still in good working order. Using those, it seems like the first planeswalkers, from Lorwyn, mostly missed Vintage entirely. Little Jace Beleren wasn’t explosive enough and too generously gave cards to your opponent. Chandra Nalaar and Liliana Vess were too expensive, and Ajani Goldmane was too creature-centric for the time. In fact it was Garruk Wildspeaker who had the most attractive power-level to cost ratio, making into an experimental Worldgorger Dragon combo build by Rich Shay and a novel mono-green deck from Guli. These weird, attackable enchantments with activated abilities didn’t really go anywhere

It wasn’t until Tezzeret, the Seeker combined with a newly re-re-un-re-errata’d Time Vault in 2008 that planeswalkers really took hold. Suddenly there was an entirely new deck archetype—two if you distinguish Turbo Tezz from the regular kind—that featured an entirely new card type. And it was winning! Tezzeret still won in a very Vintage-y way, that is, immediately. You had one to stop your opponent from taking all the turns, which meant short-term answers like counterspells and artifact removal were reasonable. Still, Thirst for Knowledge was restricted in 2009.

Then, in 2010, Jace, the Mind Sculptor appeared in Worldwake. There was a lot of discussion when the text first appeared, with players trying to determine the new card’s role, if it had one. You should really treat yourself to skimming that thread, as it’s hilarious in hindsight. Big Jace didn’t catch on right away, but it definitely left a mark on the format. Jace paired nicely with Dark Confidant as a draw engine in control decks, so well that Owen Turtenwald won the 2010 Vintage Championship with it as a three-of.

Jace succeeded in making the game longer, and Gush and Frantic Search were unrestricted in October 2010 to compete in that environment. It’s at this point that Vintage really turned more towards creatures as part of a strategic plan. Stuff on the board started being more important than stuff in the hand, and planeswalkers, creatures, and removal jockeyed for superiority. (This is actually where Jace Beleren (the card) started to show up, as a counter to players trying to push the envelope on Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Beleren was slightly cheaper and could strand an opponent’s Mind Sculptor in hand. It was kind of a weird time.)

There haven’t been so many planeswalkers that reached Tezzeret or Jace status. Dack Fayden certainly made an impact, particularly as an anti-strategy against Workshop decks, encouraging the use of Arcbound Ravager alongside Lodestone Golem and necessitating Phyrexian Revoker. And the bar has gotten lower for other planeswalkers to be tested. Even unexpected hits like Arlinn Kord, Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast, and Tamiyo, Field Researcher have made Vintage Top 8s.

Now we enter a new era of planeswalkers. Previously, they had been weird, attackable enchantments with activated abilities. Now they have static and triggered abilities too! This puts even more emphasis on preserving a board full of stuff as you increase your value as the game goes on. Not only do planeswalker abilities draw you virtual spells each turn, but you’re further rewarded for keeping a board full of stuff. Creatures and removal—particularly if it covers a variety of permanent types—thus get more important as well.

We look at some cards from War of the Spark completely without context aside from being a Vintage-focused podcast. Certainly there are a few standout planeswalkers that could slot easily into an existing Vintage deck or something similar, and War of the Spark seems like it will have a major impact on the format.

Consider Saheeli, Sublime Artificer, or Ral, Storm Conduit, as a fifth copy of Young Pyromancer with benefits like comboing a little with Time Vault or copying Ancestral Recall or any of Vintage’s other great spells. Teferi, Time Raveler, could make it into Jeskai as a control piece, or into Paradoxical Outcome as anti-counterspell technology. Maybe Teyo, the Shieldmage, or Dovin, Anarch of Bolas (don’t forget hybrid mana can be mono-colored!) find a place in a mono-white prison deck alongside various Thalias and other white weenies.

Karn, the Great Creator, seems like a shoo-in for a Mishra’s Workshop deck. Despite being a four-drop nonartifact, Karn’s one-sided Null Rod ability is powerful, particularly in the mirror and against Paradoxical Outcome, where it can’t be removed by artifact hate. Being able to get artifacts out of your sideboard or that were exiled is also strong, potentially game-winning and well worth four mana in an artifact combo deck like Two-Card Monte. Karn’s suite of abilities could also find a home in Paradoxical Outcome decks, similar to Teferi; Karn can shut down opposing Shops or the Mirror and provide an alternate route to victory.

Even getting old effects on new card types could be exciting. Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, is a new Laboratory Maniac, potentially with a built-in path to an empty library. Narset, Parter of Veils, is similar to something like Notion Thief in conjunction with Dack Fayden or any number of draw-sevens. And Ashiok, Dream Render, potentially shuts down tutor-heavy combo decks like a one-sided Mindlock Orb or permanent Shadow of Doubt. These may not see long-term heavy play without help, but they have some interesting applications.

Beyond planeswalkers there are plenty of other interesting cards in the set. Some combo-minded players are salivating over Bolas’s Citadel, which seems to combine Yawgmoth’s Bargain and Channel into one Tinker-ready package, and (particularly as I write that sentence out) seems nuts. An aggressive, black-based storm or Goblin Charbelcher deck make use of that if players aren’t too scared of Mental Misstep to run Dark Ritual. And if planeswalkers do run roughshod over Vintage, The Elderspell has some seriously exciting text for two mana.

I realize this section reads like a bit of a laundry list of card names, but that’s because War of the Spark has great potential. The addition to Vintage of this many planeswalkers (and associated cards) that are reasonably costed with reasonable abilities is unprecedented.

We close this episode with a discussion of sous vide and other cooking techniques for the lazy hipster. Geoff likes the convenience of long-term, constant-temperature hot water baths for his bachelor chow of salmon. He can put his filet-o-fish into a bucket in the afternoon, set the temperature on the sous vide wand, and return later when he wants to eat. There’s no chance of overcooking, and a quick sear in a pan or on the grill adds caramelized flavor. It’s trendy and fun! And as you’ll learn in the podcast, you can sous vide pretty much anything, including phones.

Josh is intrigued by cooking salmon in the dishwasher or on top of a car engine during a long road trip. Nat adds that he used to cook Pop-Tarts in a hot pot in his dorm in college.

We all do what must be done to survive.

Which is Jace, the Mind Sculptor’s best ability? What different planeswalkers have you played in Vintage? Did you ever go crazy and, like, BOOM! seven-mana Garruk, Apex Planeswalker instead of playing, like, Yawgmoth’s Bargain? What War of the Spark cards spark your interest? Did you ever cook fish in your dishwasher? How about just throwing a steak in the dryer to tenderize it? What’s the most expensive card you’ve ever sous vide’ed?

Thanks for listening! We should have something special coming up in the next few weeks so stay tuned! We’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or The Mana Drain or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].

For episode 38, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) talk with Matt Hazard (@winedope) about the most recent invitational Vintage tournament he held at his house, and how you can host similar local events.

Vintage (and Magic in general) has been in a bit of a snit recently as players discuss the implications of the London mulligan, which will be tested at the upcoming Mythic Championship II. If the test goes well, the new rules would replace the current Vancouver mulligan rules. In brief, the London mulligan has players continue to draw seven cards for each mulligan and then put a card on the bottom of the library for each time they’ve mulliganed. So if you mulligan twice, you’ll draw seven cards, pick your five favorite, and put two cards on the bottom of your library.

We’ve tested with this a few times in Middle School and Vintage pickup games, and it hasn’t made a huge amount of difference in most games. Where you’re keeping seven or six cards, for example, it’s equivalent to the current, or nearly so. At more than four mulligans (keeping three cards or fewer), you’re still so far behind on materiel that your chances are vastly depleted, even if you keep a solid looking trio or pair of cards. So the real test seems to be in keeping four or five cards, where you might have a powerful way to recover—Ancestral Recall, or Workshop-Trinisphere for example.

Regardless, even with this potentially strengthened mulligan rule, we don’t think you want to mulligan. Cards are just too powerful a resource. So we don’t think this will be too-too upsetting for Eternal formats. In reality it will just make players feel better when they have to mulligan a long way down. But! In any case, it would be a shame if Mishra’s Workshop or Bazaar of Baghdad to be restricted based on a mulligan rule change, since they’ve been vibrant parts of the metagame for so long.

A couple weeks ago 29 players showed up at the home of Matt Hazard in Columbus, hungry for the competition of a Vintage tournament and the fun of a casual environment. For an average suburban house, that’s a lot of people, particularly if you need them to have enough room between them to comfortably play a game of Magic. Matt and his wife, Trece, have hosted a similar event for four years in a row now, growing in scale each year. The first few years they had three dogs and two cats, and now they have a young kid to contend with among all the hubbub.

And they do a great job! This is one of the Ohio Vintage community’s favorite tournaments. There are so many things to take into account if you want to host a similar event, but it can be done. Aspects include: seating, tournament organization, food and drinks, and prizes.

Butts in Chairs

Names in Spreadsheets

I’ll also recommend knowing and making clear how many rounds will be played and how a winner will be determined, so there’s no confusion toward the end. Typically you play N Swiss rounds for P players, where 2N – P isn’t negative. So 3 rounds for 8 players, 4 rounds for 8 to 16, 5 rounds for 16 to 32, and 6 rounds for wow, you have a lot of friends. There are plenty of options to determine a winner: Swiss and elimination rounds (usually top-eight for more than 16 players), Swiss+1, or – as Josh suggested for small events – round robin.

Beverages

Food Breaks Are Nice

Prizes Are Nice Too

The Hazardvitational bypasses this hangup by skipping the entry fee and asking players to donate prizes, suggesting a value of $20 or more. Cards are frequent additions to the pool, and we’ve had things like Dual Lands, Jaces, Commander decks, complete sets, and various user-created packages. Jake Hilty put a complete Middle School deck in the pool for this event, which was awesome. We’ve also had non-Magic prizes like alcohol (including Josh Chapple’s prize of bitters and a cocktail recipe book) and even a Sawzall, which went highly in the structure.

Recent additions to the prize pool have been “mystery box” prizes, which are pretty much what they sound like. The sky’s the limit, and part of the prize is the fun of opening an unknown quantity. Ben Perry consistently outdoes himself in this category, as this year’s “Do Not Open” box included a choice of keeping a Tundra or one of two further mystery packages. The chosen prizes were intended to be given to other players of the winner’s choice and turned out to be more Middle School cards.

In the end there are lots of ways to put a home tournament together. These are just basic ideas, and you can feel free to modify as necessary.

In Case You Want to Stream

In the last episode we talked about an upcoming (now past) Old School event run alongside Magic Fest Cleveland, hosted by the Cleveland Rocs at BottleHouse Brewery and Mead Hall. The event ran smoothly, everyone had a great time, and the event organizers were able to donate more than $1,700 to Providence House, a Cleveland-area family crisis center.

This episode we talk about contacting Land Grant Brewing to help us make a more fun event by providing fine liquid refreshment to players. Josh Chapple operates under a policy of “Don’t ask, don’t get,” so he asked and we got. In this case we told them that Land Grant is actually a Magic card, and they asked for one for their trophy case. A fair exchange, for sure.

There’s a lot of power in the Magic community, even among smaller groups like local Vintage or Old School scenes. Charity events are wonderful opportunities to combine the people-power and (let’s be honest) money inherent in these groups and put them to good use. It’s an attempt to make a difference where it’s needed. So many Magic events are inward looking, with players essentially giving back to themselves. Charity events are outward looking, good for everyone involved.

Following the Hazardvitational, we contacted Land Grant again to set up what I hope will be a longer-term relationship, presenting the opportunity to do a similar charity event to the Cleveland Rocs partnership with BottleHouse. Magic players get a place to play and a chance to help out their community, and a local business gets a similar chance to give back, some promotion, and a captive audience of consumers for an afternoon. Land Grant was excited about the option, even offering to donate 20% of their day’s profits to the charity as well. Sounds pretty win-win-win!

I’m really excited about this, hoping we can match the Rocs’ results. Right now we’re looking at an event on May 18, with more details to come. Look forward to it!

Jaco won the Hazardvitational playing four-color Paradoxical Outcome, beating David Lance on Survival. Other Top 8 decks were Ravager Shops, Paradoxical Oath, Humans, Grixis Xerox, and Griselbrand Oath. You can see these lists as well as plenty of photos from the event on The Mana Drain. Enjoy, they’re fun!

Matt Hazard, our gracious host, played a mono-red aggro control deck with lots of Blood Moon effects and Null Rods. The idea is very much to hinder your opponent’s mana, empty your hand, and attack with aggressive creatures like Lupine Prototype and Bloodrage Brawler. Not one to shy away from interesting cards, he also included a maindeck Hellspark Elemental and a sideboard Pardic Miner, which gets talked about in the audio. I’ll let you look them up.

Josh Chapple played his usual: BUG Control. It’s a typical looking list, one that you hope is metagamed properly for the event you’re playing. That’s difficult at a lot of Team Serious events where you might face Matt Hazard Mono-Red or a deck that includes a bunch of cards with “Predator” in the name so it can coordinate with the player’s donated prize. Anyway, when the right answers for your opponent’s strategy find their way to you in time, your game will go well. Otherwise, it’s a fun battle.

I played Turn-One Tendrils (a.k.a. SX or Meandeck Tendrils), a deck that’s more of a thought experiment than an actual competitive deck. There has been much written about the archetype, but it doesn’t show up because it’s weak against so many kinds of disruption and is tricky to play well, let alone perfectly. I had fun and had a lot of time to eat and talk to people and hang out between rounds. I died once to Spoils of the Vault.

What’s the best prize you’ve ever won playing Magic: The Gathering? Would you rather have a known prize or a mystery box? Would you have guessed 30 people would each eat an average of half a pizza? “Dressed Hamm’s” or “Spiced Hamm’s”? Have you tried one? They’re better than you thought, right? Did you have to look up Pardic Miner?

Thanks for listening! We definitely believe that friendship and fun are the primary reasons to play Vintage, so we’re glad to make friends with our fans. If you want any advice about hosting a tournament in your own private space, invitational or otherwise, please feel free to reach out. We’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or The Mana Drain or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].

For episode 37, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) talk with Steve McGrew and Jake Hilty (@TuringTested, our first returning guest) about a new, fun format we’ve been enjoying. It’s not as old as Old School or as new as Modern – it’s Middle School!

Also, until February 15, we’re selling Serious Vintage T-shirts! Hurry!

Magic players love nostalgia. It’s not necessarily a “things were better when…” attitude. Sometimes it’s just that “things were different and I enjoyed that too,” as well as the fun that comes along with resolving favorite old cards, or even just seeing and thinking about them. Frequently that nostalgia will surround the era you started playing, when you were first learning the game and absorbing as much as you could. Good or bad, those cards tend to stick with you.

Most players started in the Modern era, so they can get play their early favorite deck or card or strategy in the Modern format, even if it’s not the best path to victory, just to get that hit of remembrance. Old School likewise fills a need for people who want to get that historic Magic feel—simpler creatures and spells with “classic” art.

Middle School fills in between Old School and Modern, allowing sets from 1995 (Ice Age and Fourth Edition) to 2003 (Scourge), stopping at the frame change with Eighth Edition. Deck construction rules tend towards inclusion, allowing pretty much anything printed during that time: promos (except Mana Crypt, part of a small Banned List), ancillary sets like Beatdown, any gold-bordered Championship Decks, and all three Portal sets. That’s a lot of cards! These allow a lot of great decks, many of which haven’t been fully explored simply because not all the cards were legal in the same format at the same time, except in Legacy and Vintage, where they’ve already been outclassed.

From what I’ve seen, there are all kinds of archetypes available to players. Aggro decks have tribal and synergistic examples, and are very few turns behind the combo decks, meaning even that potentially lopsided matchup is challenging when one side stumbles. Midrange has excellent historical examples to learn from, and control has good options, being challenged mostly because the format is broad enough to allow so many disparate threats. There are also some interesting challenges to all Middle School deck building, including—as Jake mentions in the podcast—that mana fixing is far from perfect. Should you stick closer to two colors, or are you OK adding more and accepting the risk of not having the mana you need when you need it?

We talk a lot about the format and what’s possible. I’m going to post some decklist photos, but you should know they’re for inspiration only. None of us would suggest that these are the best decks in the format or even necessarily optimal examples of their own kind. Just look at these hot pix and get excited about playing with old cards.

UG Madness

First up is Josh Chapple’s UG Madness deck, which is great because I’m pretty sure he was able to just pull this off the shelf as-is when he heard the format was created. Counters, card draw, and efficient creatures. Pretty straightforward.

10-Land Stompy

This is mono-green 10-Land Stompy. When I told my local store owner about the format he was very excited to be able to build this deck. There are a few adjustments I would make, but it goldfishes very well. Jungle Lion can’t intercept, but it can attack pretty well.

Aluren

This Aluren deck from Jake does a couple of things that a lot of Middle School decks do: Birds of Paradise as a mana fixer, and Intuition as a Demonic Tutor. Also notice Living Wish and Rhystic Tutor. This deck will find what it wants.

Eggs!

Eggs (Helm of Awakening Storm) was the first deck I played seriously in Vintage, and I was really excited when I realized I could play it competitively in Middle School. Being able to Frantic Search for two mana and untap three lands is a real treat. The sideboard at the bottom is mostly for Burning Wish.

Enchantress

Jake will play Enchantress in literally any format, so obviously he has a Middle School version. This plays lots of answers to various threats, can lock out an opponent with Words of Wind, and might even win with Squirrel Nest.

Wheaties

Wheaties (one of many “cereal decks” in the format) uses Academy Rector to put together enchantment combos, primarily Enduring Renewal and Goblin Bombardment, or Survival of the Fittest and Recurring Nightmare.

UW Landstill

Steve’s Landstill deck is an example of one of the control decks in the format, with lots of card draw and removal. You can sit behind Standstill and attack with Mishra’s Factory or Faerie Conclave, and even cycle Decree of Justice to make tokens. How fun!

That’s just a few examples of what neat things are available in the format. Keep in mind too that any of the gold-bordered Championship Decks are legal as well, and most of them are going to be playable (and competitive!) right out of the box.

UPDATE! If you’re interested in playing Middle School and are coming to Cleveland for Magic Fest, we got you covered! Friday evening, February 22, at 7 p.m., Team Serious is hosting a Middle School event at Mars Bar, a great local bar with beer and gyros in Lakewood, a short ride from the convention center. Even if you don’t have a deck or are getting in after 7, this will be a great opportunity to meet people and learn about the format!

There’s also an Old School event hosted by the Cleveland Rocs for the benefit of Providence House, one of the oldest and longest operating crisis nurseries in the country. Entries are limited to 32, and they’re almost full, but there is a waiting list for cancellations or other provisions. That event will be at Bottle House in Lakewood (see below), on Saturday, February 23, at noon.

Magic Fest Cleveland is coming up February 22-24, with its usual schedule of Magic tournaments, side events, artists, and ephemera. If you’re coming to the North Coast later this month, Team Serious is happy to present a list of food and drink recommendations before, during, and after your gaming adventures.

Highly recommended and nearby the convention center, Pho Thang will offer hot Vietnamese soup and sandwiches that should be perfect for Ohio in the middle of winter. Also within walking distance is Mabel’s BBQ, which features “Cleveland-style” barbecue, as created by Michael Symon of Food Network fame. The area near Mabel’s, around Prospect and E 4th streets, has several other restaurants probably good for a post-tournament meal as well.

A short Lyft away is the Ohio City area (outlined in red on the map), which surrounds the West Side Market. The market has fewer prepared foods than Reading Terminal Market in Philly or North Market in Columbus, but it’s a similarly fun place and great to pick up snack items if you’re there during the day. Try some of the different jerkies. Ohio City also has several bars and restaurants. Listing just a few: Bar Cento (open late, voted “Best Pizza in Ohio”), Great Lakes Brewing Company brewpub, Flying Fig for creative fare, and (if it’s not too cold) Mitchell’s Ice Cream.

Tremont is next to Ohio City (in blue) and also has several restaurants and bars, as well as the house from the movie A Christmas Story. Steve recommended Prosperity Social Club for comfort food and beer, and Restaurant Ginko for sushi. Ginko is closed on Sunday but open till midnight on Friday and Saturday.

In Asia Town, east of the convention center also a brief ride away from the convention center (in green), try Szechuan Gourmet or Han Chinese Kabob and Grill. If you’re there early enough (before 8 p.m.) or want a quick lunch, you can also stop at Koko’s Bakery, which has sandwiches, bubble tea, pastries, and Chinese buns.

A little farther away to the west is the suburb of Lakewood, where the Old School and Middle School events will be. Lakewood has the original location forMelt, which serves outstanding and creative grilled-cheese sandwiches. They’ve since expanded to Columbus and beyond. Proper Pig is there as well, which was mentioned alongside Mabel’s as good barbecue. And for drinks, LBM describes itself as a “friendly neighborhood viking cocktail bar” and has great burgers, while Bottle House is the brewery and meadery where the Old School event will be held on Saturday. For food, try also Sarita, a restaurant, which has happy hour 5-9 on Thursday and Sunday if you’re in the city early or late, or Georgetown for cocktails and live music.

Steve also recommends Good Company for burgers and boozy milkshakes; it just opened. He also touted the grouping of Plum Cafe, Platform Beer Co., and B and G Tavern (for cheap beer and pool), all in the same area of Lorain Avenue. And Jake likes Mason Creamery, an ice cream shop that transforms into a ramen shop during the winter, as well as Jerry Yang’s favorite pizza in Cleveland, Angelo’s. They’re also in Lakewood but they deliver.

Cleveland has a burgeoning food scene thanks to local chefs like Michael Symon and Dante Boccuzzi, so there are definitely places to check out. And as mentioned, it’s the Midwest, so drinking is pretty cheap. Let us know if you have questions or want more specific recommendations.

When did you start playing Magic? What cards from Middle School get you excited? Have you ever played Oath of Druids without Forbidden Orchard? Should Mind Twist be banned if Dark Ritual already is? Are you coming to Magic Fest Cleveland? Great! You should say hi!

We’re glad you’re interested in Vintage, Middle School, and all of the things we talk about on Serious Vintage. If you’d like to support us financially, maybe you and your friends and loved ones would enjoy a T-shirt. For the next three weeks (until February 15, in time for Valentines!) we’ll be selling shirts to raise money to improve podcasting and Team Serious streaming technology.

“Force of Love” shirts are back, and now you can show you’re competitive when it comes to the post-tournament meal with a “Vintage Supper League” shirt!

As usual, we’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or The Mana Drain or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].

For episode 36, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) are joined by Erin Campbell (@OriginalOestrus) to talk about a bunch of fun Vintage topics including the importance of the community, the Vintage Super League, Dredge, and Two-Card Monte. She also helps us depart a little from our usual “discerning” food-and-drink discussion to a more “picky” angle.

Most of our discussion about Vintage community, you’ll kind of have to listen to. Erin recounts her entry into the format—playing fast, graveyard-based decks in Legacy and Modern and being able to get in affordably through MTGO. She also talks about how excited the Vintage community was to share its passion, and how encouraging and generous it could be.

And it is that passion and excitement that drives Vintage players; Erin talks about that too. In my experience, the format is built around big, flashy plays. Controlling those plays, unleashing them or reining them in, is a skill not always practiced in other formats. The cards are all significant, even in situations where they seem otherwise, so games can go from certain win to certain loss in the blink of an eye. Think of cards that are ostensibly fine in smaller formats, like Brainstorm or Lotus Petal, which end up restricted in Vintage because they lead to much more powerful things. Making those powerful plays (or struggling against them) comes with a lot of emotion—high highs. Vintage makes you feel things.

Looking back at my own entry into Vintage—15 years ago, I guess, jeez—I experienced a feeling of welcome similar to Erin’s, even if the situation was totally different. My path to Vintage started with a kitchen-table format that allowed four-of any card you owned. I played multiple Sol Ring, Wheel of Fortune, and Black Vise and could regularly kill on my opponent’s third upkeep. But friends started playing sanctioned Vintage at a small store in Ohio called The Dungeon and were recruiting anyone interested, excited to continue growing the scene. There was a little Power, but people were doing broken things in their own way.

And it was great, like the Wild West: Mono-Black Hatred, Mono-Green Stompy, Goblins, Helm of Awakening Eggs, Angel Oath that was slowly acquiring Power at the time, and some weird brews, including whatever I was playing. For a while it was a Welder Madness list with Memory Jar and Wild Mongrel, which was somehow not terrible. Everyone was having fun, and there were so many friendly deals made to help each other get Dual Lands and Force of Wills and other Vintage staples, so we could all improve together.

It also didn’t hurt that, when our group graduated to larger events, Vintage was very much in favor of allowing playtest cards to lower the entry barrier. Whether driven by passion or desperation, paper Vintage is generally a welcoming format at the local level.

Season nine of the Vintage Super League (VSL) is also just beginning, and Erin is competing in her third year of the contest. This season is back to individual competition (season eight featured three-player teams) and players are encouraged to play what they want, with the stipulation that they should keep things interesting and try to play new decks when they’re on. We’ve already seen evidence of this as the second week’s offerings included Andy Probasco playing Death’s Shadow and three decks (Stephen Menendian, Brian Coval, and Randy Buehler) all playing Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, from the newly legal Ravnica Allegiance set.

It would be a disappointment to a lot of fans if Erin were to skip playing Dredge entirely, but we talk about some of her other options, including Two-Card Monte, Stax with actual Smokestack, and Enchantress. It’s always exciting to see innovative new decks (or new takes on old decks) in the VSL, even if the competition format lends itself to “metagaming against your friends,” so the decks can be less reflective of “real life” Vintage. It’s also exciting to see players step outside their own comfort zone and try a strategy or archetype that they may not be familiar with as a pilot.

This episode’s food-and-drink section covers a lot of ground. A lot. We talk about peanut butter, pizza, warm beverages, cold condiments, cottage cheese, rye chips, french fries, hamburgers, hot dogs, corndogs, onions, and more. There’s too much to summarize here, but I thought it was interesting that, out of four people on the show, three of us don’t drink coffee. Make of that what you will.

Erin did mention a couple of Milwaukee restaurants, which I’ll record in case you’re in the area. The Dogg Haus has additional locations in Wisconsin and Minnesota and offers build-your-own hot dogs with multiple meat, topping, and bun options. At least visit the website and check out their logo. There’s also Vanguard Bar, which has a similar offering of housemade sausages (including duck and boar), as well as “tube-less” meals like burgers and poutine.

In the end, while we all have our proclivities and aversions, we all agreed we like food.

What got you into Vintage? The decks? The Power? The people? How do you feel about Dredge, and what deck would you play if you had to pick something other than what you’re playing right now? Are there foods you despise? Is pineapple on pizza OK? How do you feel about small hot dogs? What about a product called the “Corndogger”?

Regardless of how you got here, we’re glad you’re interested in Vintage. If you’d like to support Serious Vintage financially, maybe you and your friends and loved ones would enjoy a T-shirt. For the next three weeks (until February 15, in time for Valentine’s Day!) we’ll be selling shirts to raise money to improve podcasting and Team Serious streaming technology.

“Force of Love” shirts are back, and now you can show you’re competitive when it comes to the post-tournament meal with a “Vintage Supper League” shirt!

As usual, we’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or The Mana Drain or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].

For episode 35, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) talk about Lands (the deck, not the card type) with Frank Singel, winner of the recent Team Serious Invitational.

It’s always fun to talk to a player who has spent a lot of time developing, playing, and perfecting one deck. Frank Singel is just such a player, and his deck of choice is an interesting one in a format where so many people are focused on playing many, many spells per turn: Lands.

Lands, the deck, is based on the similar build from Legacy. Lands, the card type, have the benefit of being free and uncounterable, with the drawback of being able to play only one of them per turn. There are a lot of unique effects available on lands, and in Eternal formats, there are several ways to break the one-per-turn rule. Vintage adds Bazaar of Baghdad to the mix, allowing Lands players the opportunity to grind through their own deck to find their best answers against an opponent—think The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale against Eldrazi or Bojuka Bog against Dredge. On top of that, Dark Depths and Thespian’s Stage provide a potential 20/20 flying, indestructible combo win. So the deck has some different looks depending on the cards it draws.

At TSI Steveland, Frank finished 3-2 in the Swiss but won a play-in to the elimination rounds and won out from there. Part of his journey involved staving off Paradoxical Outcome three times, which seems remarkable for a deck that has so little turn-one interaction against that spell. We talk about that matchup quite a bit, and though Frank agrees there was some fortune involved, it’s not as bad as one might think. Permanents are pretty good, it turns out.

If you’re interested in seeing how the Lands deck works, matches from the TSI are available on YouTube, with commentary and analysis from Andy Probasco and Jimmy McCarthy. Check out Lands versus Archon Oath in the swiss, Lands versus Archon Oath tiebreaker, and Lands versus Paradoxical Outcome in the finals.

There’s also some discussion of the Banned and Restricted List, particularly regarding Mental Misstep and Fastbond. Mental Misstep plays a critical role in Lands as the protector of important one-drop spells, like Fastbond, and particularly Crop Rotation, which is an awkward two-for-one if it gets countered. So which would help Lands more: restricting Mental Misstep or unrestricting Fastbond?

Full results of TSI Steveland are here on The Mana Drain.

I (Nat) played against Lands at Eternal Weekend, piloted by Jody Keith. In the critical game three, I resolved an early Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and was hoping to ultimate that to win the game. I knew Jace wasn’t great against the Dark Depths combo, but Jody had multiple answers in play for my Oath, so Jace was currently my only hope. With Jace at nine counters, Jody final found both Dark Depths and Thespian’s Stage, so I was boarding the train for a loss. Except I had Time Vault in play. You can hear how things could have, should have, and did play out in the podcast.

You can also enjoy what is still one of the most resonant Magic: The Gathering articles ever written by a guy whose deck fell out of his shirt pocket and into a toilet: “Stuck in the Middle With Bruce.”

For reference, this is the picture of Nat that Frank sent to Jody while we were talking about the incident.

Our discussion on holiday foods was interrupted at one point, but we still had obviously heated discussion. There were strong feelings on turkey, cranberry sauce, red cabbage, vegetable sides, leftovers, and, surprisingly, ravioli. Hidden in there was the point that you have to make turkey stuffing with the giblets, because the stuffing makes the turkey. In the discussion of various family holiday traditions Frank mentions that his family makes pretty delicious sounding ravioli with marinara for their gatherings. That sounded pretty awesome. Geoff and I only had spiced apple rings from a jar.

I’m not sure how it went from my thinking you should enjoy turkey and not have it be just a holiday food to “Nat hates turkey,” but it was exciting talk. Josh also recommended recipes for roasted carrots with cider vinegar gastrique and cranberry sauce made with alpine liqueur. Alpine liqueur is an herbal liqueur (there are other makers than Leopold Bros.), so if you can’t find it, Josh recommended something like an amaro. (I recommend Jägermeister, to really show you care.)

What’s the greatest number of lands you’ve ever played in one turn? Have you ever seen the right line of play and just blatantly ignored it for no reason, like some messed up trolley problem? Do you put cranberry sauce on your leftover turkey sandwiches? Do people actually eat spiced apple rings? Really? Gross!

Thanks for listening! However you choose to eat and drink when you celebrate with friends and family, we here at Serious Vintage hope you have merry times. This will probably be our last episode in 2018, but we have some exciting stuff coming up next year. We’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or The Mana Drain or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].

In episode 34, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) bring North America Vintage Champs finalist Nam Tran on to wrap up Eternal Weekend and talk about what got him to the finals.

Anyone who’s played Magic in Ohio should recognize Nam’s name, but there are plenty who don’t simply because he keeps such a low profile. He’s quietly put up Top 8s and other quality finishes at local events and larger for well over a decade now. Aside from the Vintage Championship finals we go in to great detail on here, he also T8’d Vintage Champs in 2014, a SCG Legacy Open in 2013, and a SCG Power 9 in 2005. Locally, if you want to win a tournament, you probably go through Nam on your way to the top. As we mention in the episode, Nam’s record at Team Serious Invitationals is exemplary. We’ve had 11 such events; Nam has played in nine of them and has T8’d all nine, winning one.

When we first met Nam he was a Mana Drain pilot, frequently on Control Slaver. Now he would insist that he doesn’t know how to tap Islands anymore and has focused on various archetypes fueled by Mishra’s Workshops, starting with 5C Stax, dipping into Uba Stax when that was en vogue, and now switching between Two-Card Monte and Workshop Aggro. His decks are ideal representations of a long-time collector of extravagant cards: all foil wherever possible. And since he’s played Workshops against pretty much everything over the years, he has a box of shiny sideboard options that he’ll bring with him to update his list for a particular tournament’s metagame.

Throughout all the successes, though, it’s patently obvious that crushing people with Workshops just happens to be a natural side effect of Nam showing up to hang out with people. His true motivator is the camaraderie of Vintage. He’s happy to loan cards to friends, even to the detriment of his own decks, and always arrives generously laden to BYOB events so he can share. He came up with the Team Serious maxim—“We are friends; we have fun”—and provided its mission statement—“We just need to be the best that we can to get better, dominate Vintage tournaments, and represent the Cleveland area. Yeah, man! Yeah!” If you know Nam, you’ll read that and hear him say it in your head.

We spend a lot of the episode covering Nam’s Friday run to The top 8, and he recalls all of the details expertly. If you want to play along with him, I highly recommend pausing and reflecting on some of the plays he outlines. They go quickly, but all the information is there.

Here’s Nam’s list from Vintage Champs 2018:

And here were his matchups throughout the day. You’ll notice a few big names, including two former Vintage Champs, so the road wasn’t easy.

Round 1 – Ryan Maddux – Delver UWR – 2-0

After Nam cleared the first 10 rounds, though, several members of Team Serious pulled together to help him go the distance. This meant rigorous testing against Survival, the deck played by his T8 competitor Marshall Arthurs. After bubbling up in the MTGO testing lab a while back, it has grown serious legs the past 6 months, and has some incredibly powerful opening plays, including dropping 16 power worth of Hollow Ones and Vengevines into play on turn one, or opening with a nightmare scenario of Energy Flux and Stony Silence against Workshops.

The process of intensively learning a specific match was fascinating to watch. It was heartbreaking as Nam’s testing opponent, Jerry Yang, drew god hand after god hand. But despite that, Nam was keeping up, so the matchup looked difficult but not unwinnable. We speculated that with average hands from both sides, the Workshop deck might just have the edge.

And, spoiler alert, it did. We continue with Nam’s thoughts on the rest of the Top 8 matchups.

Condado and Emporio, which we recommended in our previous episode seemed to be popular destinations for plenty of Eternal Weekend attendees, since they were so close to the venue. But they also proffered delicious tacos and meatballs, respectively, so: score!

Josh Chapple made it to another recommendation, Starlite Lounge, and said he was disappointed in the food but excited by the bar. The pierogis there just didn’t live up to the Team Serious hype. Josh also made it to Cinderlands and raved about it, recommending it to everyone. They make beer, have flavorful pierogis, and their menu includes rillettes and a scotch egg that look worth the trip on their own.

A group of us also went to Max’s Allegheny Tavern on Saturday, which seems like a strong option in the future. Recommended by Team Serious teammate Oliver Sovol, who has gone there with his family since he was a kid, Max’s serves authentic Bavarian food, including hasenpfeffer, several kinds of wurst and schnitzel, and great sides like red cabbage, German potato salad, and spaetzle. They also serve “Bavarian nachos” (maybe skip those) and have a good beer list of local offerings and German standards.

We also have some commentary on the McDonald’s Triple Stack breakfast sandwich, but questions might be better directed at either Andy Probasco or Jerry Yang, who had wildly different experiences. We also diverge into Columbus food with Los Guachos and Buckeye Pho, and we learn an important lesson about eating chocolate you find on the ground. Namely: maybe don’t.

How do you feel about the current Vintage metagame, following the results of Eternal Weekend? How did we do on our other food recommendations from Pittsburgh? Would you ever eat a McDonald’s Triple Stack? How about three?

Thanks for listening! And congratulations to Nam and to the actual winner of the 2018 North America Vintage Championship, Brian Coval! We’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or The Mana Drain or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].

For episode 33, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) talk with Josh McCurley (@infant_no_1) about Eternal Weekend and the food of Pittsburgh.

Josh McCurley visits from Texas, where he’s a Magic judge and Eternal formats aficionado. Online he streams Vintage on MTGO regularly and has even dabbled in Arena recently, all with a penchant for the Portal card Forest Bear. Despite focusing mainly on Mishra’s Workshop-based strategies himself, Josh keeps a close eye on other archetypes and is willing to experiment with radical lists he concocts or that his viewers send him. Plus, he has to recognize how other strategies are doing if he wants to beat them, right? So we brought him in as an expert.

As further evidence of his expertise, Josh and Nat once played a casual Vintage game of Lantern Control versus Jester’s Scepter Uba Mask and—thanks to Ensnaring Bridge, Uba Mask, and some other dumb artifacts—finished as an actual, no-winner draw. Reminded of this, Josh said, “We are so good at Vintage.”

Note: Since our knowledge of Eternal Weekend was admittedly muddled, you should visit Card Titan for all the details.

Vintage right now is a battle between five top decks: Ravager Workshops, Paradoxical Outcome Storm, Jeskai Control (or some flavor of blue-based control), Dredge, and Oath. None of the decks can beat all of the others, so there’s a tug-of-war at the metagame level as players try to pick which deck they feel will be best equipped to beat most of their opponents and then tune to make their poor matchups slightly better.

For example, if you think there’s going to be a large number of Workshop decks, you would play PO Storm to beat them and then work to combat Jeskai’s draw engine and countermagic so you don’t lose too many points there. But then if you think there’s going to be a lot of PO Storm, you play Jeskai and try to adjust to beat Workshops in the sideboard.

And then Oath or Dredge show up, being all weird, and just decimate an unprepared field. Good luck!

Defending Champion: Workshop Aggro

The Newcomer: Paradoxical Outcome

The Comeback Kid: Survival

The Contender: Jeskai Control

The Fading Star: Oath of Druids

The Underground: Dredge

Void Winnower beats all of these decks.

We had a few food recommendations for Pittsburgh. Primanti Brothers is kind of a Steel City tradition. They make big sandwiches that frequently include the french fries in the sandwich (a concession to steel workers who needed to eat their lunch in a hurry). Hopefully your waiter sticks around.

The Original Hotdog Shop, better known as “The O,” is kind of a Magic: The Gathering tradition, as it was the frequent meeting spot of Team CMU, one of the early premier Pro Tour teams, which was based in Pittsburgh. You can get giant fries, burgers, hotdogs, and beer in this casual, college atmosphere. Open late.

Last year’s hits for Team Serious were Emporio and Starlite Lounge, each of which specializes in its own brand of comfort food. Emporio calls itself “A Meatball Joint” and lets you choose your meatball, sauce, and method of conveyance (pasta, bun, or fries). This was literally all I heard about after Eternal Weekend last year. Starlite Lounge appeared on Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives and serves three kinds of pierogis, as well as other home-cooked Polish diner food.

Nearby the convention center, Josh recommended Condado for their tacos and margaritas. They do a good job offering creative combination tacos, as well as letting you build your own. You’ll have to challenge yourself to see if you can acquire margaritas on the run between rounds.

This year Team Serious members Jerry Yang and Rajah James had some recommendations of places they’ve been and places they were looking to try. In no particular order:

If you find anything you like, be sure to let us know for future years!

What scares you most about the current Vintage metagame? What scares you most about a seafood buffet in Pittsburgh?

Thanks for listening! We hope our view of the Vintage metagame was helpful and insightful, or at least entertaining. Have fun in Pittsburgh. We’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or The Mana Drain or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].

After a long hiatus due to staffing issues, for episode 32, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) talk about Guilds of Ravnica.

In October 2016, I (Nat) moved to Seattle and briefly touched the sun as an editor in Magic R&D for Wizards of the Coast. For two years, my wife and I lived for adventure in the Pacific Northwest, and I got to live out the dream of working on Magic: The Gathering, the game I’ve managed to dedicate more than half my life to playing.

Working for Wizards was great. I learned many things that I’ll carry with me now that I’ve left, not only about Magic (how it’s created and how it’s played) and about editing in general. For anyone who’s dreamed of working in Magic R&D, I’ll say it’s pretty much everything you’ve imagined. You can spend an entire day playing Magic with some of the best, most insightful, and most creative players ever. You get to see all the cards as they develop, before they come out. And you end up with more product than you realistically know what to do with.

But it’s still a pretty regular office job, with meetings and whatnot. Most of the time employees are still concerned with meeting job responsibilities, managing whatever it is you’re working on at the time. And when my wife and I were looking at what we wanted from life, it was evident that with aging parents and the thought of having children of our own, it would be a lot more convenient to be back in Ohio than a day’s flight away from it (also, housing prices in Columbus are literally a quarter of those in Seattle!).

In my two years, I worked on a lot of different things you may have seen. Among other things, I did Duel Decks: Merfolk vs. Goblins, finished the editing on 25th Anniversary Masters and Iconic Masters, and did the creative editing on Rivals of Ixalan. There are things I worked on that I still can’t talk about because they’re not even a gleam in the players’ eyes yet.

I was also the lead editor on Guilds of Ravnica, and in this episode we talk about that. I answer some listener questions about the Magic R&D process and talk about some of the cards. If you want to know about some names or flavor texts I wrote or what the heck happened with Invert, it should be pretty entertaining. If you’re interested in reading about the process I describe pretty quickly, Mark Rosewater has a column detailing it, titled “Vision Design, Set Design, and Play Design.” I directed listeners to an earlier article, which is here, and also worth checking out.

Josh asks what the good places to eat around Wizards of the Coast are. I didn’t take full advantage of all the local options because I’m frugal (cheap). I like to save money on normal eating so I can spend more on special events, so I generally packed my lunch. But there were a few places that I enjoyed semi-regularly. Malakor Thai and Spice King are both good if you like Thai or Indian food. I’m not an expert in either, but Elizabeth and I went to Malakor a few times for dinner too, and Spice King was where my team went for a goodbye lunch. Other times I would treat myself to a burrito at El Burrito Loco because carnitas and horchata are delicious.

Seattle also seems to have an affinity for local burger places, something around Five Guys in price and expected quality. Shake ‘N Go was the one nearest the office, and they have good burgers, fries, and shakes, as well as some other offerings I didn’t take advantage of. The best known Seattle burger restaurant is probably Dick’s Drive-In, which I was disappointed to learn is closer to fast food than fast casual, but they know what they’re doing. I like their shakes.

My absolute favorite burger place in Seattle is The Burger Express in Federal Way, a little south of Renton. They have a wide variety of burgers, all grilled to perfection, and hand-cut fries that are the perfect mix of crispy outsides and soft inners. Their shakes are spun and super thick. They grill their own jalapenos too, and for my money, their jalapeno burger is the second best burger I’ve ever had. Other places I thought were good were Pick Quick (a local chain I visited in Auburn), Herfy’s Burgers (another local chain near the office), and Zippy’s Giant Burgers (two locations with lots of burger memorabilia on the walls, and they sell beer).

For finer dining, I really like Lecosho, which is a couple of blocks from Pike Place Market. They have locally sourced food, including seafood and some interesting options when they’re available, and do a great job preparing it. Also good cocktails. Lecosho is up the hill from Copperworks Distilling, which has great whisky varieties and whose cask-finished gin from chai-spiced cider barrels was just amazing. And if you’re near Pike Place, I like The Crumpet Shop for a snack. You may have to know what a crumpet is to understand cricket, but they clearly do both.

Other places that were high on my list were Taylor Shellfish, Bizzarro Italian Cafe, and Donut Factory. Taylor Shellfish would have several oyster varieties available and also served geoduck sashimi, which is a fun experience. Bizzarro has really good Italian food that definitely seems better than stuff you would make at home, and they fully encourage drinks with dinner. And Donut Factory, on Seattle’s north side has a wide selection of fry-cake doughnuts, including flavors like green tea, Oreo, and red velvet, all of which are sweet bites of heaven. They have more deluxe pastries as well, but fry-cakes are my favorite.

I think that’s pretty good, summarizing two years of good food into a few paragraphs. Seriously, though, if you’re traveling to Seattle, I found fellow Wizard Gavin Verhey’s website, Gavin Eats, to be a solid assessment of a lot of places with a really useful binary rating system.

Anything we missed when talking about Guilds of Ravnica? We can continue answering questions in the comments if you want.

Thanks for listening, and thanks to everyone who submitted questions for this episode! We hope we were able to provide a unique look into how Magic cards are created. We’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or The Mana Drain or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].

And if you want me to put editorial markup on your copies of Invert, I’ll see you at Eternal Weekend!

For episode 31, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Andy Probasco (@tmdBrassMan), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) return to justify their extended absence, sing the praises of basic swamps, and delve (we wish) into some new cards from Aether Revolt.

As you may have noticed, Nat Moes, who has been a driving force for Serious Vintage, isn’t part of Episode 31. Nat recently accepted a position at Wizards of the Coast as an editor, and will not be a regular participant on the podcast going forward. We are thrilled for Nat and wish him all the best at WotC. If you run across any new cards with They Might Be Giants lyrics or Latin quotes as flavor text, that’s likely Nat leaving a legacy. With that said, we’re happy to announce that Serious Vintage does have a future! Geoff, Andy, and Josh plan to continue the podcast, so stay tuned as we move forward.

BUG control has been a popular deck on Team Serious for a while, and below are two examples from the team. The deck is generally tweaked for the expected metagame, but the basic game plan of controlling the board while you pick away at your opponents life total remains the same. The recent printing of Leovold, Emissary of Trest fits the deck perfectly. At a minimum he replaces himself with a draw trigger, and at his best he completely shuts down your opponent.

It’s always exciting when new sets come out to see what cards may have Vintage applications, and Aether Revolt has a few options for players to try out. Below are the three cards that we believe will see the most play in the format. Although we have boldly predicted that the last card below will have zero Top 8 appearances in 2017, but we’ve been wrong before.

1. Who doesn’t love a good removal spell? Fatal Push checks a lot of boxes for us, converted mana cost of one, and Instant speed to start with. There aren’t many things that Fatal Push doesn’t kill in Vintage, and with fetch lands it’s pretty easy to cast with Revolt. BUG control and storm combo decks seem like the perfect place to try Fatal Push out and see if it has a future in the format.

2. The next card we covered shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. Walking Ballista is an obvious nod to a previous Vintage Workshop staple Triskelion. This card has a lot of potential as it combos well with other artifacts like Steel Overseer and Arcbound Ravager. Workshop decks have also struggled with colorless creature removal and in a pinch Ballista fills this role. The ability to turn unused mana into additional +1/+1 counters on your opponents end step is also something to consider.

3. This last card was a bit surprising, but Geoff is really excited and I’m sure Winding Constrictor will be an auto include in the Thallid deck. Spore counters add up quickly with this powerful ability and 2017 may just be the breakout year for Thallids. With a less color dependent casting cost this would have been an interesting ability in an artifact deck that either relies on prison cards like Smokestack and Tangle Wire or with Walking Ballista, Steel Overseer, and Arcbound Ravager.

Thanks for listening and thanks for sticking with us during this transition. We’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or The Mana Drain or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].

For episode 30, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) talk about Gen Con, an annual gaming convention with 64,000 attendees and the erstwhile home of the Vintage and Legacy Championships.

With Wizards of the Coast ramping up its presence at PAX and making its Grands Prix larger, more elaborate affairs, Magic: The Gathering at GenCon has taken a back seat to the rest of the conference. Magic events are run by Pastimes, and were smaller overall affairs this year. We played in one Vintage event with 28 players and had a good time, but it’s a far cry from previous years’ events with Vintage and Legacy Champs, and even Worlds.

Many of the players at the Vintage events of GenCon are regulars, coming every year. There’s also a healthy group of new players who may just be getting into the format. Nat tells about playing against a newer player who was using Delver of Secrets with Kiln Fiend and Reckless Charge!

Josh did the best of us, playing BUG Control:

BUG Control and @joshchapple, representing #SeriousVintage in the 2-0 bracket. #GenCon2016 #vintagemtg pic.twitter.com/UKOKT5gQLV

— Grandpa Belcher (@GrandpaBelcher) August 5, 2016

From all experiences with the deck, you play some bad cards and then, just when you’re about to lose, you find one that just crushes your opponent.

On Saturday, we played Vintage Artist Constructed, hosted by Josh Krause. The rules for this format are simply Vintage, with the additional restriction that all of your cards need to be illustrated by one artist. It’s a lot of fun, and I would anticipate an event at Eternal Weekend this year.

You can see how much fun I was having here (playing against Sam):

Turn 1 Walking Dead from @GrandpaBelcher. The beat down has started! pic.twitter.com/JqCimXkPIp

— Josh Krause (@OriginalMtGArt) August 6, 2016

But seriously, the format has a surprising amount of life. There are several varied decks and options for people to play, and you can have as much fun or be as competitive as you want, just like regular Vintage.

The main reason for going to GenCon (besides the friendship of course!) is for the games. Every year the event hall is wall-to-wall with new games, old favorites, and plenty of accessories and related oddments. Every year improves because you learn more what you want to do and can focus on that. We highly recommend it.

We played many games this year, but the ones we talked about on the podcast were these:

2. Thief’s Market, a dice splitting and bidding game. We kind of wanted to see this played by different people in different groups. It’s an interesting exercise.

3. Captain Sonar, which is Battleship on Super-Soldier Serum and was a highlight of Gen Con. Here’s the French video if you’re interested.

4. Werewolf, which is really a family of games at Gen Con including Ultimate Werewolf (which adds different roles) and WitchHunt (which gets people yelled at for not playing well).

We’ve talked about some of our other Indianapolis food experiences (Pearl Street Pizzeria, Punchburger, Patachou) in previous episodes, but the one new place we went this year was Pioneer, which was excellent. They had several house-made sausages, a wide selection of drinks, and a well balanced set of appetizers and entree foods.

Innuendo for dinner. #Pioneer #GenCon2016 pic.twitter.com/usa1bOCaqW

— Grandpa Belcher (@GrandpaBelcher) August 6, 2016

Would highly recommend and will look forward to going back next year.

There was also talk about carrying water and other beverages around the event. I bought a Hydro Flask before GenCon and was impressed at how it kept ice water icy throughout the day. I could fill it with ice in the morning, drink, and still have ice in the afternoon. Jon Hammack, a Team Serious affiliate and friend of the show, recommends a CamelBak backpack-style carrier, which holds enough to not need refilling throughout the day. Both good methods, I’m sure.

We closed with a brief and simple question for discussion: What’s your favorite non-Magic game? There’s obviously a lot to choose from whether you like simple card games, complex war games, intense betting games, or relaxing party games. There’s no wrong answer. Except maybe Monopoly.

Thanks for listening, and thanks to everyone who made GenCon great this year! We always look forward to the one-of-a-kind entertainment that “The Best Four Days in Gaming” offers, especially since we get to meet and hang-out with so many great people. We’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or TheManaDrain or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].