Serious Vintage

For episode 19, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) recount their exploits at and after the most recent Team Serious Open in Columbus Ohio. As a preview, our combined record was 6-9.

In the podcast, we said the Sullivan Solution deck was developed in 2008. It was actually developed in 2006, as outlined by Adrian Sullivan (in conjunction with I@n DeGraff) at StarCity Games. Even if you’re not interested in the deck, consider reading the article as a primer on how to attack a metagame. The deck is a lot of fun, but I don’t have much to add here that wasn’t in the podcast.

Geoff took a page out of Nat’s playbook and tried out the Forgemaster Staves Workshop combo deck. It should be a solid list, but the list Geoff took hasn’t been updated in several months, including several key cards like Blightsteel Colossus. Still, I guess you can’t go too wrong once you own a playset of Mishra’s Workshops.

Josh Chapple brought this deck from Colorado and had a mediocre finish. Lots of fun cards and, again, answers to plenty of Vintage’s biggest threats. He had a fun day, but he lost to Burn. Again, most of the discussion is going to be in the podcast.

The restaurants we ate at over the weekend are some of my favorites in Columbus. If you’re in town for an SCG Open or whatever, consider checking them out.

Northstar Café has several locations in various trendy areas of the city, including just north of the Convention Center. They have great breakfast and light lunches and dinners.

Harvest Pizzeria (which is next to cocktail bar) has tasty gourmet pizzas with fresh, local ingredients. This has become our go-to place when people are visiting.

The Easy Street Café has greek and American food, including burgers and gyros and some appetizer that they set on fire. It’s a great fallback if Thurman’s is ever too crowded to wait.

Lastly, a few upcoming Vintage tournaments. I’d like to mention all of them (you can find more on the tournament boards at The Mana Drain), but I like to cover areas that are new or don’t otherwise get a lot of attention. If you have an event you want a particular mention of, let us know with plenty of time in advance!

March 21-23

March 29-30

I should also mention that there’s weekly Vintage in Minneapolis at Monster Den (Tuesday), in Parkville, Maryland, at Brewport Games (Wednesday), and in Columbus at Fog of Dusk (Monday). If you have other meetups or are looking to start one, let us know!

Thanks for listening! We’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].

I know you’ve all missed us, so here we are once again. For episode 18, Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser on Twitter), Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher), and Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) reconvene to talk about the January Team Serious Open, the impact of counterfeits on Vintage, and the great taste of Melt Bar & Grilled.

I had to do some research on this, and as far as I can tell, the January 2014 Team Serious Open ties the record for largest Vintage tournament in Ohio in at least two years. Thirty-four players showed up from Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Virginia, Georgia, and Pennsylvania for some hot Vintage action, and it was great. If you want to schedule Vintage in a city that Star City Games visits with their Open series, I highly recommend hosting an event over the Standard portion. We got lots of participation off of that, including a couple of players who came to play after 0-2-dropping.

The podcast covers some of the details, but the important thing is that there was a ton of combo and blue decks—more than 30 total. One dredge deck and two Workshops filled out the field. It was an interesting metagame, to be sure, and more evidence that Ohio is no longer Workshop central, as it once was.

The top eight decklists and metagame breakdown are available on The Mana Drain. We went over a couple of decklists in the podcast, detailed here for your convenience:

Rick Gideon’s Keeper list harkens back to the old days of Vintage, including a toolbox of things like Moat, Mind Twist, and The Abyss, and a suite of tutors (including Enlightened Tutor) to help find them. One thing to take note of is the unusually high number of mana sources he’s running: 26, almost half the list (which is 63 cards) and as many as some Workshop builds. Many Vintage decks running blue will start cutting mana to play more draw spells like Preordain or Gush. Aside from Ancestral and Brainstorm, though, Rick’s deck attempts to make its land-drops naturally, then tops out at four mana for Jaces and a Fact or Fiction.

Daniel Buzzie was a great opponent, and I was surprised by the flexibility of his deck, even beyond the transformational sideboard. This build of Dragon, initially designed by Chris Browne and popularized by Nick Coss, anticipates its opponents overboarding the graveyard hate they have for Dredge and switches to a Tezzeret Control deck post-board. Daniel, however, seemed to stick mostly with the main deck plan and pulled off some surprising wins (and draws) with its multiple ways to find and reanimate Worldgorger Dragon. We don’t see this deck much in Ohio, but I’m glad he made it out and had success.

Our next events are scheduled for March 8 and April 12, and though they won’t overlap with an SCG Open, we’re excited for the possibilities as the scene continues to grow.

Counterfeit Magic cards have been a hot topic around the Internet recently, as the seeming influx of reportedly hard-to-discover fakes has people worried about the value of their cards; the potential for unscrupulous players, traders, and sellers to take advantage of people; and the future of the game in general. We talk about our feelings on the subject, but the gist of it is that there really isn’t anything to worry about yet. If you’re smart and have been playing Magic the Gathering for a while, you know what a Magic card should be — how it should look and feel. And if you’re a Vintage player buying an expensive Mox, Jace, dual land, or even a Thoughtseize or Tolarian Academy, you should know to check to make sure you’re getting the real deal. As with any trades or purchases you make online, be careful.

We talk about some techniques for identifying counterfeit Magic cards that pass the initial tests. Cesar Fernandez also writes about some methods for looking at the current crop of Chinese cards here (you’ll have to use Google translate or another service if you don’t speak Spanish). Other sources include Apathy House, which is very thorough, and Wizards of the Coast themselves from the last time this happened.

Don’t panic. Just be vigilant and careful.

We wrap up this episode with a review of Melt Bar and Grilled, an Ohio institution that now has five locations: Cleveland Heights, Lakewood, Mentor, Independence, and Columbus. They specialize in insane grilled-cheese sandwiches and have a great selection of on-tap and bottled beers. What could possibly go wrong?

Answer: not a thing. Melt is delicious.

Thanks for listening! We’ll look forward to any questions or comments here or on Twitter. You can also email us at [email protected].

For episode 17, Geoff (@ThallidTosser on Twitter) and Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher) are joined by Steven Stierman, the 4C Humans player who rocked the GenCon 2013 Vintage events with his disarming personality and well-armed aggro deck. We talk about Humans and the GenCon Vintage experience and then go straight to breakfast with a section on pancakes.

Steven was a great guest and clearly had a ton of fun playing his Humans deck. We spend most of the episode going over the choices made putting the deck together and his experiences in different matchups at GenCon, so there’s not much to add. One thing to point out is that Steven had never played a sanctioned Vintage match before Friday’s 83-player event, where he took 10th. He had tested some games and knew some of the decks and matchups, but most of what he knew was simply from playing Legacy and EDH. Who says Vintage is an inaccessible format?

The decklist follows, and we’ll make sure we get answers for any questions you might have.

We talk with Steven about how he got introduced to the format and what plans he has to continue playing Vintage after GenCon. Turns out, he and some friends are trying to get a community started in Iowa using proxied decks. Best of luck to them, since it would be great to add another group of players to the format!

We have a few great pancake recipes because everyone knows that when you’re preparing for a long day of gaming, you have to be fueled up. When you get to round four and just want to leave because you haven’t eaten enough, don’t blame us:

Buttermilk Pancakes

Directions:

If you don’t have buttermilk on hand, use 5 tsp vinegar or lemon juice and add enough milk to make the 1 1/2 c of liquid. Stir the two together and let sit for five minutes, then use them in the recipe.

Cottage Cheese Pancakes

Directions:

These cottage cheese pancakes are seriously the best, my absolute favorites.

Buckwheat Pancakes

Basic buckwheat pancakes. The buckwheat has a heartier, nuttier flavor than regular flour and the denser cakes will keep you filled longer.

Directions:

We also mentioned a few good places for pancakes (and also crepes) in Ohio and Philadelphia, in case you’re going to Eternal Weekend.

Black River Café – Probably the best pancakes in Ohio. I’ve known several people, including myself, who will make any excuse to get some.

Clifton Mill Restaurant – Also excellent, and seriously huge, pancakes. One full order of these will feed a person for a few meals. (Also probably the best bacon I’ve ever had.)

Creperie Beau Monde – If you’re into haughtier French pancakes, you can get them for appetizer, main course, and dessert in Philly. Worth the trip away from the convention center.

Redding Terminal Market – There are actually two places with pancakes (Dutch Eating Place and Down Home Diner) and a creperie (Profi’s) right across the street from the convention center where Eternal Weekend will be. Even if it’s not breakfast time, make some time to go to the market and look around.

Thanks to Steven for joining us and to Geoff’s mom for the buttermilk pancake recipe. If you have any questions about the let us know on Twitter, or email [email protected].

For episode 16, Geoff (@ThallidTosser on Twitter) and Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher) renconvene with Josh Chapple (@joshchapple) to go over the sights and sounds and tastes of GenCon (It’s usually best to downplay the smells at any large conglomeration of Magic the Gathering players and sundry nerds).

Geoff and I both played Vintage on Friday and Saturday, hoping to win an uncut sheet of Antiquities or Urza’s Saga. Both of us did fairly well. I made top 16 both days and was only knocked from the top eight in the last rounds. Geoff tried out a novel deck based on the combination of Thespian’s Stage and Dark Depths and finished with a positive record both days. We talk a little about both of our lists, how things went, and what we thought about the metagame in the podcast. The decklists follow for your reference:

The other Top 8 lists from Saturday’s 40-person event are up on Eternal Central here, including the Four-Color Humans list form Steven Stierman, which we talk about quite a bit for its novelty and Steven’s positive attitude toward Vintage.

The lists from Friday’s 80-person event were, tragically, lost by the tournament organizer. Filed in the circular folder, if you will. Brian DeMars and Nat did some additional analysis on the remaining lists at Star City and Legit MTG, respectively.

Everything else at GenCon can pretty much be summarized by this image, compliments of Jerry Yang and Jordi Amat Puig:

As has been shown time and time again, the best parts of GenCon include not playing, talking about, or interacting with Magic cards at all. Trying other games and eating delicious food are important as well. But, sappy as it sounds, the best part of GenCon is always hanging out and spending time with friends.

So, from left to right: Saturday’s winner, Jordi Amat Puig; Erik Butler, our Episode 9 guest (yes, the sound quality is bad for that one, sorry); Jason Jaco (way in the back left), who helps the wheels turn at EC; Kevin Cron (behind Erik), co-host of So Many Insane Plays; our own Geoff Moes; Twaun P. Pwnertown, Esq. (bespectacled in the back); Silly Sam Krohlow, holding a glass as usual; Lord of All Cats, Jimmy “To the Hilt” McCarthy; me, stony-faced as always; J.R. Goldmanbergstein, once better known as Ophidian Guy or Bomberman Guy; Gilberto Rivera, who killed two opponents in response to dying with Leyline of Anticipation on Saturday; Mitesh “Mith” Rao, who was Show and Telling style all weekend; and the actual worst Vintage Magic player in the world, Jerry Yang (in the back).

Those who were at GenCon but didn’t make the picture were missed: Matt Hazard, James King (who, thank goodness, had connections to get us a hotel), C.J. Moritz, Ryan Seeley, and Mike Solymossy. We also missed plenty of unnamed dudesweats who couldn’t make it to GenCon this year, though the one everyone mentioned was Mark Trogdon.

We met plenty of awesome people all weekend, playing Vintage, in the halls, even when we were out at dinner. That was great too. GenCon is awesome; the Vintage community is great.

If you’re not doing your group photos as GIFs from now on, you’re clearly doing it wrong.

But really, if you have any questions about the lists or comments about GenCon, or if you met us or ate somewhere we mentioned in Episode 14 let us know on Twitter, or email [email protected].

Lastly, we have some Midwest Vintage events coming up: September 28 in Columbus, October 5 in Kalamazoo, and October 13 in Sandusky, Ohio. Check those out leading up to Vintage Champs in November, and earn some Vintage Achievements!

For episode 15 Geoff (@ThallidTosser on Twitter) and Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher) bring back Jerry Yang (@yangtrolls), epicurean and, as we learn, the actual worst Vintage player in the world, to talk about the upcoming GenCon extravaganza. We talk a bit about the Vintage metagame and the applications of Young Pyromancer, then we jump straight into the events and, more importantly, the food of GenCon. If you’re going to be in Indianapolis in a few weeks, you’ll definitely want to listen to this episode.

For a format with a lot of inertia, Vintage may have some exciting changes on the horizon as players try to figure out a good way to use Young Pyromancer (or not). We talked about the li’l wizard who could in our last episode too, and we talk a little bit more about its prospects in this one. Jerry points out that its color, efficient cost, and permanent making ability make Pyromancer a natural predator against Workshop decks and blue-based control decks alike.

We’ve seen a lot of ideas thrown around about regarding Pyromancer, a lot of decks excited to use it despite playing a ton of other creatures. I foresee a lot of disappointment with these decks since creatures don’t trigger Pyromancer’s ability. Creatures that would synergize with Pyromancer include Delver (which also wants lots of instants and sorceries) and Dark Confidant (which draws more spells to cast). Gush is almost a certain inclusion since it triggers Pyromancer while drawing more spells to cast.

You all knew that, though, right?

Suffice to say there’s a lot more fun at GenCon that doesn’t involve playing Magic than fun that involves it. We highly recommend demoing a ton of games in the exhibition hall and going to the GenCon Dance (see below). We did not have a good time at True Dungeon, but if you’re into that sort of thing, definitely go for it.

Anyway, GenCon is a little like this: Josh Chapple is a beautiful butterfly.

One highlight for us at GenCon is getting a huge group of people to go out and eat dinner. Many GenCon attendees lack focus in this area and often find themselves patronizing the nearby Noodles & Co. or Steak ‘n’ Shake, where they stand in line for some mediocre food they can get just about anyway. Some people even rave about these places (especially Steak ‘n’ Shake, for whatever reason). Seriously, there are plenty of good, better, great options within walking distance. Here are some of them, listed in the order we talk about them on the show:

Indianapolis Food Trucks – there during the lunchtime hours every day of GenCon. Check these out for sure, but be careful in the sun, for real.

St. Elmo’s Steakhouse

BARcelona Tapas

Punch Burger

Mo’s Steakhouse

High Velocity at J.W. Marriott

Yat’s

Acapulco Joe’s

Ball and Biscuit

Bruburger

Smoking Goose (a.k.a. Dorman Street Meatery)

Goose: the Market

MacNiven’s

Café Patachou

Statehouse Market

Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse

Recording this episode and writing up this list of restaurants got me even more psyched for GenCon, so I hope it does the same for you. If you have any questions about restaurant recommendations, or if you have any hidden gems of your own to share, hit us up on Twitter or send an email to the show at [email protected]. We’ll see you in a few weeks at GenCon!

Josh Chapple (@joshchapple on Twitter) makes his triumphant return from GP Vegas to regale us with tales of woe and whoa in Episode 14. Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher) goes over the results of the recent Team Serious Open in Sandusky, including the propagation of BUG decks with Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay. And Geoff Moes (@ThallidTosser) keeps us all in line.

The results from last month’s Team Serious Open, held in Sandusky (OH, USA) at the Hero Zone, are in and available here. It was a small tournament but represents the metagames we’ve been having recently in Ohio where nobody can seem to agree on what kind of metagame we should have. In Columbus in May, three combo decks made Top 8; in Sandusky, there is no combo. Okeydokey.

The two decklists we focus on for this episode are Kevin Cron and Jake Hilty’s BUG Control lists:

We talk about many of the card choices in the podcast, touching especially on Deathrite Shaman, who has become a thorn in the side of many a Vintage player recently because he is a know-it-all little jerk who does just about everything well.

Also, one thing I noticed after typing up the lists is that Kevin’s list runs two more straight-up mana sources maindeck (22 versus Jake’s 20), though Jake has an additional Island in the sideboard alongside the extra Wasteland. It seems as though there are a lot of different ways to build this type of deck, aiming not only for a particular expected metagame but also for an individual’s playstyle.

At the Team Serious Open we also brought back the Vintage Achievements list, with an interesting prize pool that contained a pack of Modern Masters (the rare was Arcbound Ravager), an official Magic: the Gathering Encyclopedia (won by yours truly and returned to the pool after the tournament), a copy of Weatherlight Revealed, and a bottle of Dove bodywash for men.

We’ll continue doing these Vintage Achievements at future Ohio tournaments. If you’re interested in starting a similar program, let us know.

We already talked a bit about Modern Masters when it was first announced and about Vegas when we previewed the GP, so you can hear more of our thoughts there. It will be interesting to see the longer-term effects of the set, not just with regards to card prices as players realize how many reprints were (or were not) added to the purchasing pool, but also now that Wizards has printed a reprint set that everyone seems to be able to get behind, really thrown their weight behind an eternal format, and officially held the largest collectible card game tournament ever.

Finally, we close with Josh’s tales of being in, at, and around the Modern Masters GP, which is most importantly a tale of Las Vegas adventure. Hear the strange case of Dr. Chapple and Mr. Frank, or at least what decorum allows him to tell.

Some people had a really good time.

Remember, if you have an event you want publicized, let us know. If we record with enough time before the event, we’ll try to give you a shout out. You can send tournament announcements to [email protected].

On that note, there’s an upcoming Ohio tournament in Columbus on July 27 at Comic Town. I highly recommend these tournaments as a great way to get into the format as a casual, though competitive environment. And don’t forget the Vintage Achievements! Details can be found here.

Thanks again for listening! If you have any questions or just want to chat, let us know in the comments, on the Twitter, or at [email protected].

Unlucky number 13, this episode of #SeriousVintage reunites Josh Chapple (@joshchapple on Twitter) with Geoff (@ThallidTosser) and Nat Moes (@GrandpaBelcher) to talk about several Vintage-relevant topics: the new Magic 2014 rule changes, the changing location of Vintage Champs, results from the latest Team Serious Open, previewed M14 cards, the Modern Masters release, and Alinea, a restaurant in Chicago with a nigh unpronounceable name, but amazing food.

Having new rules hit Magic the Gathering is generally a pretty big deal, especially in younger formats where the rules affect a larger percentage of the cards. In Vintage, where the players have been around for a while and know to keep their hats on when something changes, the M14 rules update will cause some adjustments, but are easily dealt with. Players will have to adjust to simultaneous Tolarian Academies, Vendilion Cliques, and Jace, the Mind Sculptors, but this adds a level of tactical and strategic depth to games. The big loser here is Phyrexian Metamorph, who can no longer remove Griselbrand, Emrakul, Kataki, or other legends in Workshop decks (it copies them instead, which is debatably worse). Big winners, potentially, include Mox Opal, Gaea’s Cradle, and Thespian’s Stage.

Thespian’s Stage now combines with Dark Depths (and two mana) to make a flying, indestructible 20/20 Marit Lage token. This potentially lethal, uncounterable play can be carried out as early as turn 3, often with the help of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. It works like this: Dark Depths and Thespian’s Stage are in play together. Pay two mana and tap Stage to copy Depths. Since Thespian’s Stage is already in play, it will not get any counters; however, since it’s a Dark Depths now, the new legend rule comes into play. Sacrifice the original Depths in response to the state-based effect. The Thespian copy stays in play and its no-counters trigger happens. Sacrifice it and make a 20/20 (and hope they don’t have an answer because you just two-for-one’d yourself).

It will be interesting to see if this combo finds a home in a deck, new or old, and whether any other legendary permanents take off as well.

We also talk about the new sideboard rules, which have some possibilities but will likely remain largely the same for most players. As we discuss in the podcast, your best odds of naturally drawing a winning combo piece or a critical answer still come with a 60-card deck—not a 61-card deck and definitely not a 75-card one or bigger. Don’t forget: Math, it works!

We jumped the gun on recording this episode by about four hours, but by now serious Vintage players should be aware that the 2013 Vintage Championship is not at GenCon as it has been, but will take place November 3 in the great city of Philadelphia, hosted by the great personage of Nick Coss (of Top Deck Games/Card Titan). We discuss some implications and suppositions about the change in venue in the podcast, but the success or failure of the event still rides on the event itself. Philadelphia is a great host city. I’m sure we’ll talk some about the other attractions, including food and drink, available in the City of Brotherly Love.

Now, the question becomes what will happen with Vintage Champs in 2014. Will it be back in Indianapolis, or is Wizards happy to have the players run the tournament. Either situation will be okay as long as everything is communicated early and clearly.

Comic Town in Columbus, Ohio, hosted 17 Vintage players for a tournament on May 26, and all had a great time, despite the sudden and overwhelming influx of combo decks to the metagame. The decklists and metagame breakdown are available here. Check those out for sure.

Vintage in Columbus has been growing from the ground up as we’re attracting players new and old, trying to get the word out about the best format in the game. Some of these efforts began with Kevin Cron’s creation of the Vintage Achievements list. Here are the instructions and a sample of the achievements available:

Givin’ him the business – Win a game on your first turn

We’re trying to figure out some ways to improve the Achievements system and expand its use through more of Vintage. This might mean changing how Vintage Achievements are tracked, when they’re tallied, or what prizes are given. If anyone has ideas, please feel free to post in the comments here or to contact me or Kevin. All credit goes to Kevin for the development and propagation of this fun addition to Vintage tournaments, so if you like the idea or want to use it for your next tournament, be sure to thank him.

It’s always exciting when new cards are previewed, and M14 has some interesting ones. Okay, it has one that might actually have Vintage applications, and they’re reprinting Scavenging Ooze.

On a previous podcast we asked what was the red member of the 1C cycle that includes Dark Confidant, Snapcaster Mage, Tarmogoyf, and Stoneforge Mystic. Young Pyromancer, previewed for M14, might be that card. Maybe. It’s an aggressive two-drop that merits some comparison to other Vintage cards like Quirion Dryad, Empty the Warrens, and Talrand, Sky Summoner. Being able to play a Gush list that uses Young Pyromancer would push you into red with answers like Lightning Bolt and Ingot Chewer against problematic Workshop decks. Young Pyromancer itself could give some legs against Lodestone Golem, Smokestack, and Tangle Wire.

We looked at some green cards too, none of which was especially exciting, except possibly for best-art-ever nominee, Enlarge. Lol. Cats.

Modern Masters is coming out in a couple of weeks now too, with a huge debut in Las Vegas. As we mentioned in the podcast, since MM is a setful of reprints, everything that would make a splash in Vintage has already made its splash. There are some big cards coming out, though, and it will be good to have reprints available of playable Vintage cards that might later draw players into the format.

Flat out, Alinea, one of the premiere gourmet restaurants in Chicago, sounds insane, and though no one from Team Serious will be there until Labor Day weekend, we can still talk about it early because it’s just that insane. Their current menu can be found here, so you can see the wildly-punctuated lamb entrée and the balloon and the wooly pig and everything else we talk about.

Total cost for this meal, per person (including tax and tip), is $325. And it just might be worth it.

If you’re interested in reading more about Alinea, Josh recommends reading Life, On the Line, by the restaurant’s chef and owner, Grant Achatz.

I realize we should be doing more to promote other peoples’ tournaments too, so if you have an event you want publicized, let us know. If we record with enough time before the event, we’ll try to give you a shout out. You can send tournament announcements to [email protected].

On that note, there’s an upcoming Ohio tournament in Sandusky on June 22 at the Hero Zone. I highly recommend these tournaments as a great way to get into the format as a casual, though competitive environment. Details can be found here.

Thanks again for listening! If you have any questions or just want to chat, let us know in the comments, on the Twitter, or at [email protected].

Mentioned by Josh in this episode, after the most recent Columbus tournament, a group of us had some serious Vintage discussion over drinks. Here are the questions we answered for ourselves:

What card in the history of Magic has drawn players the most cards?