ShanghaiZhan: All Things Global Marketing, Advertising, Tech & Platforms

What happens when an industry built on creativity becomes afraid to take risks? Ali and Bryce welcome Eugene Cheong, former Ogilvy Asia Pacific Chief Creative Officer, for a candid conversation about his book, Cowards Don’t Go to Heaven. From AI-fuelled mediocrity and algorithmic echo chambers to the courage to find your own voice, Eugene challenges advertising’s obsession with playing safe—and shares how losing his job helped him rediscover his love of the craft.

Eugene Cheong spent more than three decades in advertising, including ten years as Ogilvy Asia Pacific’s Chief Creative Officer, and was named one of the world’s 50 best copywriters by D&AD. His book, Cowards Don’t Go to Heaven, draws on that career to explore eight habits that nurture creativity, from courage and curiosity to authenticity and perseverance.

Key takeaways:

• Courage makes creativity possible. Original ideas need people willing to defend them when committees, testing, and corporate caution push toward safer choices.
  
  
• Talent needs practice. Creative excellence grows through habits, study, and sustained effort; natural ability alone can only take you so far.
  
  
• Look beyond your algorithm. Read widely, meet unfamiliar people, and wander into unexpected places to create opportunities for fresh connections.
  
  
• AI makes mediocrity easier to scale. Producing more content faster means little without the judgment and care to make something worth seeing.
  
  
• Find your voice—and your people. Distinctive work needs conviction and a small group committed to making it happen.
  
  
• Find a calling that lasts. Eugene’s idea of creative paradise is doing work you love for its own sake, beyond titles, awards, and corporate status.

About Eugene:  https://www.eugenecheong.com/
Eugene on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/eugene-cheong-53137838/

Buy the Book:  https://a.co/d/0eo3PL6N

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

AI may be accelerating change in advertising, but the bigger story is what happens to the industry itself.

Strategic advisor Ivan Fernandes joins Bryce and Ali to debate the future of agencies. Ivan works with agency groups, marketing services businesses, technology companies, founders and investors, and writes extensively on the changing economics of advertising, agency operating models, AI, consolidation and private equity.

We explore the growing power of platforms and clients, holding-company consolidation, the rise of independents, and whether brands should own their own marketing technology and data.

So what does the agency of the future actually look like — and who will be running it?

Key Takeaways

• AI isn't the root problem. It is accelerating structural changes that have been building for more than a decade.
• Brands could take control. Ivan argues clients should own their technology, data and governance, with agencies plugging into their ecosystem.
• Agencies need more than execution. Strategy, consumer insight and business understanding become more valuable as execution gets automated.
• The "orchestrator" could become critical. Someone needs to connect creative, media, technology, data, platforms and business strategy.
• Independents have an opportunity. Specialist agencies can increasingly compete with holding companies — if they have a genuinely differentiated proposition.
• Young talent needs a broader toolkit. Understanding business, technology and economics may matter as much as traditional advertising skills.

About Ivan:  https://ivanfernandes.me/
Ivan on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivanfernandes1/

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Tea looks simple: leaves, hot water, drink.

But behind Chinese tea sits a world of ancient trees, remote mountains, craftsmanship, collectors, and extraordinary prices.

Eugene Chew, founder of Tea Urchin, joins ShanghaiZhan to explain how a chance encounter with pu’er in Shanghai became a decade-long obsession that took him deep into Yunnan.

We explore what separates cheap tea from expensive tea, why old-tree pu’er commands such high prices, how terroir and aging shape flavor, and whether beginners can really taste the difference. Eugene also shares what tea taught him about rural China, mindfulness, and developing a palate.

Key takeaways:

• Pu’er can be aged, collected and transformed over time, making it closer to wine or whisky than everyday tea.
• Price is driven by taste, rarity, provenance, old trees, and collector demand.
• Yunnan’s geography creates dramatically different teas from mountain to mountain.
• Beginners should invest in good leaves before expensive teaware.
• Tea drinking is as much about slowing down and paying attention as it is about flavor.
• Developing taste means learning to notice complexity, mouthfeel, aroma, and aftertaste.

About TeaUrchin:  https://teaurchin.com/
Eugene on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/eugenechew/


For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

The world isn't getting better. But strangely, we're not giving up.

Welcome to “dysoptimism": the tension between a world that feels increasingly dystopian and our determination to remain optimistic about our own lives.

Emma Chiu, Global Director of VML Intelligence and one of the minds behind The Future 100, joins Shanghai brand strategist Stephen Drummond to explore what this means for consumers, culture and brands.

As economic pressure, AI anxiety and algorithm fatigue collide, people are finding optimism in smaller pleasures, real-world communities and experiences that bring back surprise and discovery. We explore our increasingly complicated relationship with technology, the growing desire for more human experiences, and why China continues to be a powerful engine for global trends.

Key takeaways:

• Dysoptimism is shaping consumer behavior: pessimism about the world, but optimism about our own lives.
• Small pleasures are taking on greater importance, from “treatonomics” to wellness rituals and everyday experiences.
• Algorithm fatigue is creating a hunger for serendipity, discovery and more meaningful human connection.
• Our relationship with AI is contradictory: we embrace its possibilities while questioning what technology might take away.
• China remains a global trend engine, from livestream shopping and micro-dramas to new forms of social commerce.

Download The Future 100: https://www.vml.com/insight/the-future-100-2026
About Emma: https://www.vml.com/people/emma-chiu

Emma on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-chiu-86a4491b/
Steve on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephendrummond/

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Dean Sciole loves Chinese EVs, and thinks you will too. 

Dean has spent decades building brands for some of the world's biggest automakers, including Cadillac in China and premium EV brand Avatar. After witnessing China's automotive transformation firsthand, he believes the world's most exciting innovations in mobility are no longer coming from Detroit or Germany—they're coming from Shenzhen, Shanghai and Chongqing. In this episode, we explore how China leapfrogged the West, why Tesla became the unexpected catalyst for China's EV boom, and what happens when cars become software platforms instead of machines. We also tackle the biggest challenge ahead: can Chinese automakers build brands people love—not just products people admire? Whether you're an automotive enthusiast, marketer, or simply curious about where innovation is heading next, this conversation offers a glimpse into the future of transportation—and why it may arrive sooner than most people think.

Key Takeaways

•  Chinese EV makers can move from design to production in around 24 months. 
•  Tesla played a major role in shaping China’s EV manufacturing, supply chain, retail and consumer experience. 
•  Chinese consumers were open to new car brands and new ideas about what a vehicle should look and feel like. 
•  Software, AI assistants, self-parking, battery swapping and connected services are central to the ownership experience. 
•  Brands such as NIO are building loyalty through owner communities, events and dedicated social spaces. 
•  Chinese EV companies are expanding across Europe, Latin America and other global markets. 
•  Strong products will need to be supported by reliable service, trusted branding and a clear cultural identity. 
•  Dean expects Chinese EVs to become much more visible internationally over the next few years.

Dean on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deansciole/


For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Carol Zhou returns to ShanghaiZhan nearly 100 episodes after her first appearance to explore how China's beauty industry has transformed from an emerging trend into a global innovation powerhouse. As Senior Vice President of Business Innovation & Investments at Shiseido China, Carol shares why the future of beauty is no longer about products alone—but about ecosystems, consumer obsession, AI, and the next generation of global brands.

Key Topics from the show:

1. What C-Beauty Looks Like in 20262. Why Beauty Is Becoming More Than Skin Deep3. Can AI Make Us Look Too Perfect?4. The Rise of Smaller Brands with Bigger Ideas5.  How China Went from Following Beauty Trends to Creating Them
6. Why Consumers Are Buying Into Routines, Not Just Products7. What Happens When Everyone Can Launch a Beauty Brand?8. Can Global Beauty Brands Still Keep Up with China?9. Why Beauty in China Is About More Than Looking Good

Carol on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroltzhou/

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

China has over 50,000 brands going global: which ones will survive?

China has more overseas enterprises than ever before, but volume alone does not build a brand. Jan Harling has spent 15 years inside that expansion, holding senior roles at Huawei and OPPO before founding VirtusAsia, a boutique marketing and media consultancy based in Hong Kong. He joins the podcast to break down what separates the Chinese brands that are making a lasting global mark from the ones that are burning through their budgets to stand still.

Key takeaways:

• The single biggest mistake Chinese outbound brands make is assuming what works at home will work abroad. Localization is not optional; it is the primary differentiator between brands that stick and brands that fade
• Most Chinese brands are still allocating 80 to 90 percent of media spend to performance and lower-funnel activity, leaving brand awareness severely underfunded relative to Western competitors
• Vanity metrics (impressions, likes, follower counts) remain a persistent problem, driven largely by procurement teams whose KPI is cost efficiency, not brand impact. The shift toward brand lift studies and share of search is real, but still early
• Chinese brands rarely enter a new region with a focused test-and-learn approach. Most launch across 10 to 20 markets simultaneously, which spreads resources thin and limits the depth needed to build genuine local relevance
• The brands most likely to break into the global top 100 are those willing to make long-term brand investments, hire Western talent who understand China, and build trust with consumers before competing on price stops being an option

Jan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janharling/
About Virtus Asia:  https://www.virtusasia.com/


For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Is there a balance in the creation of advertising and the use of AI? 

Many are signaling a massive transformation of the industry.  With cutting-edge AI video creation tools, China is at the forefront of this paradox.  We spoke to Arthur Ma, co-founder of Red Horse Productions, one of China's leading advertising and commercial production houses, with 16 years of experience in building international campaigns for brands such as L'Oréal and OPPO. He joins Bryce and Ali to map out exactly where AI fits in modern ad production, and where it hits a wall, requiring a human creative leap to close the gap.

Key takeaways:
1. AI now touches roughly 30-40% of Red Horse's projects, but mostly for early-stage creative (storyboards and concept visualization), not final footage

2. Premium and celebrity-driven campaigns still demand real shoots; AI is reserved for motion-fill or budget-constrained work

3. One campaign went heavily AI-generated to hit a 3-week deadline and a fraction of the budget a traditional feature-style shoot would require

4. Chinese consumers show far higher comfort with AI in advertising than US audiences (85% vs. 16% approval), though Arthur argues authenticity still drives emotional impact

5. The real differentiator isn't the tool. It's communication skills, creative judgment, and the ability to make the creative leap AI can't generate on its own

Arthur on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-ma-%E9%A9%AC%E9%AA%8F-7830919b/
About Red Horse Productions: https://www.redhorsefilm.com/us/

Some of Red Horse's Work:
Mizone X Derrick Rose: https://youtu.be/PteoK3PnLEQ
KFC:  https://youtube.com/shorts/qXbVLks9F34?feature=share
OPPO R11: https://youtu.be/tJyqgEJbx3Q
万艾可-万爱商店: https://youtu.be/-Es94-oUxJc

For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

"Slogger" or "Kisser?" Which one are you? 

We've all been told that there are only two ways to the top. You either go the slogger route, grind yourself to a fine powder, give up your weekends and social life to get ahead, or you master the dark arts of office politics as a kisser. Joining us are Bhasker Jaiswal and Anupam Mukerji, authors of The Zen Hustle Code. They’re here to pitch a third archetype: the Zen Hustler. It’s a career operating system that replaces mindless hustle with deliberate leverage—and they've got the sporting anecdotes and 'real-world' scars to prove it actually works.  

Key Topics

• The difference between sloggers, kissers, and Zen Hustlers
• How to focus on your superpower and deliver exceptional value
• Managing up and setting boundaries in the workplace
• Building an impenetrable moat with unique skills
• The importance of confidence backed by performance
• Choosing the right stage for career growth
• The impact of social media and personal branding
• Adapting to AI and future workplace challenges

"The Zen Hustle Code:" on Amazon:  https://a.co/d/0hQWcUiF

Bhashker Jaiswal on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhaskerj/
Anupam Mukerji on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anupammukerji/

Anupam's Fake IPL Player Story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjD5zQ4ICzE

For Shanghai Zhan’s “100th episode month,” Bryce and Ali welcome back Elucidate X Founder and Managing Partner Gordan Domlija for a fast-moving riff on the biggest themes from the show’s history: the collapse of the old brand/commerce divide, platform overload, creators as media channels, AI’s impact on agency value, and why cultural fluency is becoming a commercial advantage.

Key Takeaways

1. Brand vs. performance is an outdated split
   Gordan argues consumers do not experience marketing in silos. Brands need growth systems, not separate “brand,” “commerce,” and “performance” boxes. 
2. Platform strategy is no longer enough
   Brands feel pressure to be everywhere, but chasing every platform can create complexity, poor content, and weak commercial logic. 
3. Creators are becoming the real media channels
   Ali and Gordan discuss how audiences follow people, stories, and entertainment across platforms, making creators increasingly platform-agnostic media assets. 
4. AI makes output cheaper, but judgment more valuable
   The group debates whether agencies should focus less on production volume and more on experience, judgment, and business growth. 
5. The agency model is being rebuilt
   Gordan suggests different businesses need different agency models: big enterprises still need infrastructure, while startups and scale-ups need sharper expertise and practical growth support. 
6. Cultural fluency is a commercial advantage
   The episode closes on the idea that brands fail when they translate language but not behavior, symbols, humor, and local meaning.

Gordan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gordandomlija/
About Elucidate X:  https://elucidatex.com/


For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/

Bryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/
Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/