Shine

Curt AlbrIght is one of the key leaders highlighted in my new book Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World. He has over 30 years of experience in banking, investment banking, capital markets and corporate finance, and in 2011, Curt became keenly aware of the atrocities facing our planet and its inhabitants stemming from the dysfunctional food system.

When I first spoke to Curt, he shared with me some of his spiritual awakening from investment banker to investing in plant based foods, fermentation companies and the cultivated meat technology space, and how he completely shifted his diet, his entire life, to be in service of a more regenerative food system that is in harmony with the planet. And he also shared his love of animals and I was so touched by his story and his commitment to people on the planet that I could not help but want to have him on the SHINE podcast to share more.

On this podcast interview, Curt and I speak about the problems with animal agriculture, the fishing industry and the evolution of cultivated meat and plant based food products. We talk about what cultivated meat is and why it is the wave of the future, to feed our growing population in a way that nourishes life.

If you have been interested and up leveling your inner game of well being, how to be mindful of how you consume and eat in a way that supports the flourishing of the planet and your body, this interview is for you.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Curtis LinkedIn

Clear Current Capital

“Removing Animals From Your Plate” by Phil Wollen

Eat to Live Dr. Joel Fuhrman

Seaspiracy: The Movie

BlueNalu, Inc.

Good Food Institute

Cowspiracy: The Sustainable Secret

Forks Over Knives

Meat Me Halfway

Need to Grow

How to be a Courageous Leader Amidst Climate Change SHINE panel discussion

Drawdown: The Most Comprehensive Plan Ever Proposed to Reverse Global Warming by Paul Hawken

Pachamama Alliance

The Reducetarian Cookbook: 125 Easy, Healthy, and Delicious Plant-Based Recipes for Omnivores, Vegans, and Everyone In-Between by Brian Kateman

Carley’s recommendations

Just Egg

Goodcatch Foods

Abbott's Butcher

Sweet Earth

Miyokos

REBBL

Ominfoods

Alphafoods

Beyond Meat

Lightlife

Wholy Veggie

Honey Mamas

Good Karma

Connect with SHINE

Conscious & Inclusive Leadership Retreat

Leading from Wholeness Executive Coaching

Leading from Wholeness Learning and Development Resources

Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World by Carley Hauck

Contact Carley Hauck

Shareables:

“I want to to have as great an effect for the good as I had for the bad before and get in the middle of this thing while I am still walking the earth ” — Curt Albright

“I believe the oceans are the lungs of the earth and that the oceans die, we die.” — Curt Albright

“Raising awareness in individuals can create people who can do unbelievable things… but not so much as to move the needle by getting more human capital to do the next right thing, which is getting animals off of our plate.” — Curt Albright

“How we're going to get food onto our plates is probably the biggest problem when I think about everything that we're facing from climate change to social justice issues. That is at the center of it all.” — Carley Hauck

“We're not trying to point fingers in the plant based food industry, we're trying to bring a solution as quick as we can.” — Curt Albright

“What I want to do is inspire other people to feel the goodness that comes from living an authentic lifestyle.” — Curt Albright

The Imperfect Shownotes

Carley Hauck 00:01

Hi, this is Carley Hauck and welcome to another episode of the shine podcast. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, conscious, inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams and awareness practices. I will be facilitating three amazing interviews a month. Before I tell you about our topic today, if you can go over to Apple podcasts, hit the subscribe button, and if you love this episode, which I'm sure you will, please write a positive review, share it on your social media channel, or share it with some of your favorite people. It helps so much. Thank you.

Our topic for today is the future of cultivated meat is here with Curt Albright. Before I introduce Curt, I wanted to share a little context for the origin of the SHINE podcast, and how that directly relates to this topic. I began doing research for my new book, Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World four years ago. And as part of the research, I was interviewing thought leaders, climate scientists, emerging leaders, business leaders that were really focusing on social justice, environmental responsibility, and I chose nine leaders and businesses that are really rocking it for people and planet. And out of those nine, there were three that I really focused on in the book that are all part of this plant based, cultivated meat technology, future of food movement. And it's been so incredible to watch where these leaders started in the journey as I was writing the book to where they are now and the momentum that they have gained, like Josh Tetrick of Eat Just and David Young of Omni Foods and Green Monday and Green Common. And Sheryl O’Laughlin, who was still the CEO of REBLL and now she's gone into so many other incredible different roles and leading the change and wonderful ways.

And Curt, he is in this space as well. He is the founder managing member at Clear Current Capital since September 2017. From 1991 until 2017, Curt was Senior VP and partner to a national investment banking firm located in Charlotte, North Carolina. He has over 30 years of experience in banking, investment banking, capital markets and corporate finance. In 2011, Curt became keenly aware of the atrocities facing our planet and its inhabitants stemming from the dysfunctional food system. Clear current capital's targeted impact mission thesis is his life's work.

When I first spoke to Curt, he shared with me some of his spiritual awakening from investment banker to investing in plant based foods, fermentation companies and the cultivated meat technology space. And how he completely shifted his diet, his entire life, to be in service of a more regenerative food system that is in harmony with the planet. And he also shared his love of animals and I was so touched by his story and his commitment to people on the planet that I could not help but want to have him on the SHINE podcast to share more.

Carley Hauck 04:17

So in this interview, we talk about the problems with animal agriculture, the fishing industry, and the evolution of the cultivated meat and plant based food industry, which is amazing. We talk about the problems with animal agriculture, the fishing industry and the evolution of cultivated meat and plant based food products. We talk about what cultivated meat is and why it is the wave of the future, to feed our growing population in a way that nourishes life.

If you have been interested and up leveling your inner game of well being, how to be mindful of how you consume and eat in a way that supports the flourishing of the planet and your body, this interview is for you.

Carley Hauck 05:05

Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining the SHINE podcast. I'm here with my new friend, Curt Albright. Curt, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much for the invitation.

And just tell our listeners, where are you zooming in from today?

Sure. So I'm just south of Vero Beach, Florida, on the east coast of Florida. Great. Thank you. And so one of the first questions that I usually always ask folks, because this is a podcast on conscious and inclusive leadership. What does conscious inclusive leadership mean to you?

Curt Albright 05:43

Well, conscious and inclusive leadership means to me, I think the word that really comes to mind is mindfulness. It's just being self aware enough to know that, you know, I'm a work in progress, and always will be. And now that I've, I'm in a position where I've founded a venture capital firm, you know, I've got responsibilities today that I didn't have before. So in today's world, I face one issue at a time, and it excites me to think that I can help balance a world that could use some extra balance these days. Hmm.

Carley Hauck 06:25

So I heard taking one thing at a time, and trying to bring more balance to the world. But that also means you have to be balanced on the inside that on the outside, right, I can't give what I don't have. And so you are managing partner at Clear Current Capital. And that is investing in plant based food fermentation companies and cultivated meat technology companies at more of the early stage of business, is that correct?

Curt Albright 07:05

Yep, you got it. I was just gonna say, you know, that was a mindful decision on my part that I didn't see coming, you know, not two years previous to making that decision. And I ended a 26 year career in investment banking to start Clear, Current Capital. And the reason that I did that was because I had become keenly aware of the atrocities that were happening in our food system. And I saw this as being the most core way to deal to bring bring a solution to most of the problems that speak deeply to me.

Carley Hauck 07:38

Yeah, so the reason that I wanted to invite you on to the podcast is, after one of the conversations we had recently, you told me about this big shift that happened for you. And I'd love to hear more how you turned vegan, how you became, you know, just very impacted by the suffering that was happening to animals, wherever you'd like to start.

It was a beautiful story.

Curt Albright 08:08

There's a lot there. Um, you know, I don't know where to start. It was it's been a heck of a journey and a heck of a ride. And it was again, it was nothing that I signed up for it was because I had a lot of speed bumps in life that I didn't have answers for, you know, and I was brought up in sports in a very different lifestyle than what I had today. And, and I was a finance major when right into banking, I was in private banking, in DC area where I grew up and went into the investment banking world, all my customers were banks, and it was a very money oriented world, which I had parts of me that like that a lot. And I just didn't know how to balance myself and my life got out of control from every aspect.

And you know, at the end, which happened to me, I got a well, I'll give you one I didn't share with you before I was I was diagnosed in the year 2000 as a type one diabetic. That was the first thing that happened to me. And I believe that was due to my lifestyle. I was 38 years old, 37 years old. And so to get juvenile diabetes doesn't generally happen that late in life, but it was it was to me it was a God wink with what I know now. And I didn't do really much of any changing it took me five or six years of more pain. And in my very dysfunctional lifestyle to realize my life was not getting better. I had all the toys and that's what I thought was the big goal in life was he has been a sign of success. Yeah, that's it. I mean, at the big house and cars and you name it and a successful career and I was completely unhappy inside. And it just didn't make any sense to me on how I was taught to be happy to think in my head growing up and so I did some a bunch of therapy work.

My marriage was in a shambles. And that's what started it. And it ended up becoming a realization to me that I didn't know how to live healthy I just never I because I'd never done it before. And and that's what got me into recovery, which I got into in November of 2006. And that so that transferring from therapy to save my marriage to doing spiritual work on myself to find out why am I not happy to getting into recovery, around alcohol abuse?

It all started to tie together and it all started to make sense. And my self awareness just started to raise up and I realized that I was unhealthy because every aspect of my life was unhealthy. And so what am I going to do about it? Well, I got in the middle of the healthy lifestyle and just started looking for ways to be of service and, and one of the first things was I got introduced to Andrew Harvey, which I mentioned before and right. And, and his, his help to me was just, it was so core, I mean, I don't remember the exact meeting place, but but it was just one sentence.

He said, meditate over what breaks your heart, the greatest and I kept thinking myself, I'm waiting for the rest of it. No, that was it. And so so that's what I did is I just asked myself, What breaks my heart the greatest and I kind of meditated over that. And he said, you know, the other thing that can be helpful is if you see an ad on TV, what do you have to turn your eyes away from because you get too emotional. And it was easy. That was easy. For me it was animal suffering.

And so that's what started it for me and and, and so you know, I I cleaned up my, my lifestyle, I looked for ways to be of service to others and sponsored a bunch of men in recovery and still do and then started to look for ways to help animals and by bought 11 acres and donated it to a rescue in Charlotte where I was living. And what happened was, there was a mercy for animals undercover investigation at a Butterball factory in, I think it was Statesville, North Carolina and the director from the animal rescue was getting called in to help out with this undercover investigation rescue and it was absolutely horrific. And so that's what tied me into the food industry.

So again, it's these organic things that just got placed right in front of me. And and so when I researched it, and looked, I was like, okay, the reason why the rescue wasn't working out so well was because I was on the wrong end of the business. It's they do great work, they rescued a couple 1000 animals every year, but I wanted to to have as great an effect for the good as I had for the bad before and get in the middle of this thing while I was still walking the earth and and so I researched mercy for animals that got me into some of the nonprofits and and I was just blown away by the numbers. I mean, I'm a numbers guy and you know, seeing that there were 30 billion animals that were suffering and slaughtered every year on the face of the earth. And you know, what just the animal husbandry part of our food system does to the planet itself. It just, I was blown away.

And I knew that the animal farmed animal industry was not anything that I cared to know too much about. I was just afraid of my own emotions. That game was over. And and so I watched

you know, movies and read books and just got in the middle of what was the truth was and what was going on and then began to look for ways to get in the middle of the the food industry.

Curt Albright 13:43

And so the the the video in 2012 by Phil Wollen was was another one that I watched the 10 minute video called Removing Animals From Your Plate, and I realized I wasn't doing enough on my own to support removing animals from your plate. That's what you said. I believe. I believe that's the title of it. If you just Google Philip Wallen speech, it'll come up.

Carley Hauck 14:12

Yeah, you mentioned it. I was saying it again for our listeners, because we'll be able to put a link to it in the show notes. Yeah, he was Citibank Australia. So having another banker talk about his emotions and feelings kind of validated what I was going through and gave me permission to dig deeper into the atrocities that were that is or animal based food system and, and so that got me looking for more ways to support so I ended up switching gears and and supporting a number in a philanthropic way, a number of effective nonprofits, like Mercy for Animals, like the Humane League. We opened up an office for the Humane League in Charlotte in 2013.

And so you know, it just the path just kept going and I just kept feeling more and more centered. I was selling things I was getting rid of my stuff I was trying to live smaller, you know, I'd never met, you know, other guys that live that way and were authentic before I met them from the nonprofit work and one of them was Bruce Friedrich who ended up founding the Good Food Institute. And, and Bruce was just super kind to me. And he lives in DC, it's where I grew up. And so, you know, he kind of introduced me around to the who's who are the effective workers that were doing this greater good work and, and I again, never met people like that before, and I wanted more of it.

And so when he started the Good Food Institute, you know, having the business angle to it, that was extremely attractive to me and, and watching them explode, watching their effects on the plant based food market in general in this country. I wanted to help and so not just try to make a bunch of money and give it away. And so we met in Atlanta. And that's where the idea came from, to start clear, current capital.

Carley Hauck 16:05

Wonderful, wonderful, beautiful story. And how long have you been a vegan?

Curt Albright 16:11

I think I officially turned to raise the flag in May of 2012. And, you know, just to kind of put a little extra in on that. At that time. I weighed 250 pounds. And so I had all kinds of health issues.

What one of the things that I forgot to mention before was I met a doctor at right around that time, I had sleep apnea problems and this doctor, the first time that I met him, we had this heart to heart conversation, and I just blew me away to realize that this is the first time I met this doctor.

And he said to me, Listen, I want you to read this book, called, I wrote it down. I didn't forget Eat to Live Dr. Joel Fuhrman. And he said, I want you to read this book, because it was written by another doctor, I read it and it changed my life. And it just, it just floored me to have a doctor share something that heartfelt with me the first time I met him, and that was another one of those kind of God winks to me that, you know, I'd bought the book, I read it, and there was all kinds of accolades around losing weight, if you don't think Dr. Furman mentioned the word vegan in there, it's all about eating healthy.

And so I didn't believe it could work for me because I thought I was still different. And what I did is I started eating exactly like the book told me to eat and not only did I lose the weight, but I gained an energy and I just felt better and just everything, you know, again, it just started all coming together. So it's, it's been, there's been a lot of those on my journey.

Carley Hauck 17:55

I just really love the journey that you've been on, like listening to this, this transformation and, and really being aware of the signs, so to speak, and opportunities of what to follow and, and what I'm hearing, and it's interesting that your your business is called Clear Current Capital, but it's almost like you're flowing with what actually is calling to you what what is making your heart, you know, feel most alive, which is, which is doing good, which is being part of the solution to these atrocities that the food agriculture system has developed. I mean, not only for animals, but for what's happening to our planet, and what's happening to the potential of our, of our humanity and and our survival.

Curt Albright 18:52

Really. Absolutely. No, no, no, I love your analogy with the name because that was one of the feelings that I did have when we were naming the firm. In an early on, I was told that you know, I was living my life trying to force my will or force my way against the current and I could identify with that totally back everything was a battle and it was it was horrible. And once I let go and just, you know, let go the outcomes is just did the next right thing and started looking at ways to truly be of service and mean it.

Everything shifted.

Yeah, I mean, today, it's just it's got the flow. I mean, my life is nothing like I ever imagined it would be and and nor could I have ever imagined I'd be as happy with a different definition of what happy is to what it means to me today. Because today, it's really about, you know, self awareness and living a life of purpose. I can assure you that was not even on my radar screen 20 years ago.

Carley Hauck 19:57

Lovely well, you know, I, I wanted to highlight you a lot in this interview, but I can really relate to that. And I shared with you the book that I've been, you know, writing for the last four years. But one of the impetus for that book was really the crisis that I see us. And as a humanity, I mean, I believe the planet is going to survive. But I don't know if we are based on our behaviors based on how we're treating each other, treating animals treating the planet.

And I went to a conference at Stanford, about a year or two after I had started teaching there, and it was called Connect the Dots. And it was some of the world's you know, most distinguished climate scientists all coming together for one day. And they were sharing the research and what was at stake. And I thought that I knew the research, I thought I'd been tracking climate change science. And I was just blown away by how little time we have left.

And then very shortly after attending that conference, I was spending a day with my nephew, who at the time was four, who's now 10. And he looked at me, and he said, Aunty Carley, will you help me save the oceans? And I, I mean, I still get kind of tears just thinking about it, because I'm still in that fight. You know, I'm still standing for that. And I'm not sure if we're going to be able to save the ocean. And this, this will come back to our conversation. But I knew that if I said yes to him, I had to really say yes.

And as a little girl, I was very passionate about marine life, whales, dolphins, I went out of my way, many times to write letters to dictators of Japan, when I was seven or eight, you know, asking them to stop killing the whales, I was saving sea turtles, things like that. So I was also a very concerned child around this issue, and to have him say it to me.

So I started writing my book. And I really wanted to highlight companies and leaders who were very committed to creating a sustainable future. And, and I know neither of us really like that word, because it can be, you know, it can have different connotations, but a company that is really committed to social justice, environmental responsibility. And so some of the leaders that I highlighted in that book, are all part of this plant based cultivated me, you know, Business Technology, like David Young, like Josh Tetrick of East Just, Cheryl O’Laughlin, from REBLL.

And so that was kind of one of the ways that I met you, because it's an area that I also feel really passionate about. And so I wanted to just speak to why this is so important, and just some of the, the stats. So I believe these are pretty current. But what I found was that about 65% of Americans are lactose intolerant, and even more so in Asia. So as we can see, you know, in the plant based space, non dairy milks are having quite a rise. Oatly, I believe, had an IPO not too long ago. But we're, we're seeing lots of products like dyad, cheese, and Mykonos, and whatnot. And then we're also seeing that meat and dairy consumption is declining in Europe, and in the US. But it's on the rise in China and India. And I think that we need to really bring more awareness education around the clean, or the cultivated meat technologies, and why it's so important that we're eating more plant based, that we're not eating animals.

And so, and one of the conversations that you and I recently had, you were saying to me that you really believe that the chicken and fish industry is one of the most devastating ones can you speak more to what you know about that?

Curt Albright 24:23

Yeah. And, and I totally agree with what you said, on all fronts, especially when it comes to the oceans. Because, you know, I believe the oceans are the lungs of the earth and that the oceans die, we die. Right and, and, you know, I mean, there was a team of scientists, I don't remember how many years ago they did their study, but it was super in depth independent study, and basically what they came away with that it was the year 2048. If we continue to fish and and kill sea creatures at the level that we're doing it right now, the oceans will be dead by 2048. So we're literally in a race with time.

And you know, that's from the mind from the heart. For me, it's all about animal suffering, right? And so I concentrate on numbers. And, you know, again, when you look at how many chickens does it take to equal the weight of a pig, you know how much meat comes from a chicken versus a pig, how much? How many chickens to take equal one cow. It's, it's a huge multiplier. And so the amount of suffering and I don't know if you've seen what they put chickens through to slaughter them, but it's just it's, it's unbelievable. I mean, anyone could even come up with the contraptions that they use.

And what's going on now is is the, you know, the big meat industry is trying to get oversight and regulations further and further away from the industry because the animals don't have a voice. And so it's making the slaughter lines move faster. It's making the shackles buckle quicker. I mean, it's just, it's just, it's insanity.

And we know it causes cancer in human beings. So, so of eating animals that are dirty to begin with, because of their living conditions. And that's before you get to the growth hormones and the and the antibiotics that they have to pump into them. It's just mind boggling the amount of solution that comes from getting them out of the food industry. And that's why I'm doing what I'm doing.

On the ocean side, what really gets to me is, is you've got no oversight once again. And as we've witnessed over the past many years, when there's no oversight business tends to not do the right thing. Not big business. And because it's so profit driven, and and there's not that many mindfully operated huge businesses and especially without oversight. And you know, you've got dumping issue, you've got human trafficking issues, we've got, you know, slave labor, it's all in the seafood industry. And that's before you get to the mile wide net. And that what the mile wide nets will do is they'll catch if thereafter, say bluefin tuna, they'll catch the bluefin tuna or whatever's left of them, but they're also gonna catch everything else. Right. So the bycatch could be eight to 12 pounds of bycatch, of whale everything. And then, and then it's just they just kill them, their entire ecosystem, which is barely in balance is just getting annihilated because they're going after one particular species.

Right. So it's, it's, I see this and, you know, again, my process was not fast, especially living through it. And but I would never, I mean, I'm so grateful for going through it because it was painful. But it also taught me that we can't get there. In my mind, we can't get there quick enough, by trying to raise awareness.

Now, raising awareness in individuals can create people who can do unbelievable things. So I think that the messaging and getting it out is just vitally important, but not so much to move the needle, as it is to get more human capital into doing the next right thing, which is getting them off of our plate.

Carley Hauck 28:07

Right. And I wanted to just bring another statistic, and this actually came from Seaspiracy the movie, which I highly recommend. And in fact, Curt recommended to me and I hadn't watched it yet. And real Netflix, yeah, losing the sea floor, which is what happens from the trolling. And the nets from the fishing industry is basically you know, estimated that it's wiping out 3.9 billion acres a year of seafloor, deforestation. So that's killing everything in the ocean.

And again, like you said, if we, if we don't have the vitality of the ocean, we won't survive. We're 70% water. And when we're killing these big animals like dolphins and whales, when they come up to the surface, they're releasing phytoplankton, which helps actually nurture the rest of the ocean. So it's just and so many of these larger animals are dying, because they're full of plastic. They're full of fishing nets. And it's, there's, there's just some really big problems that we need to solve.

But I agree with you that the food agriculture system, and how we are designing how we're going to get food onto our plates is probably the biggest problem when I think about everything that we're facing from climate change to social justice issues. That is at the center of it all.

Curt Albright 29:45

And again, it gets worse the more you're open to doing your own research because like I remember, years ago, hearing years before I got involved, hearing about the Amazon rainforest, and it made no sense to me that the cattle industry had anything to do with it. The cattle industry has everything to do with it. And and now it's out in the open if you just Google it, but but it's just the the land clearing that's going on, and the devastation that's being done to this planet to, for animal agriculture is is crazy. And again, it's, it's, it's profitable at the expense of our planet. And it does not have to be that way.

And so that's what you know, that's what I'm excited about is, you know, we're not trying to point fingers in the plant based food industry, we're trying to bring a solution as quick as we can, because and the solution is not Well, number one, it's a math game. I mean, we're at 7 billion people ish now. And they're saying by 2050, will be a 10 and change.

We can't even feed 7 billion that we have on the planet right now in this dysfunctional industry. So how are we going to handle 10? There is not enough land, there is nothing sustainable about animal agriculture, you cannot utilize it and feed the number of people that we have today, or will be here in 2050.

And so the solution that's what I love about the cultivated meat industry, is the efficiencies that come from plant based food, which was our first to market because it was easier to bring that quickly at price points. The next really meaningful industry is going to be cultivated meat, and what can be done in those biomass reactors by you know, cultivating meat cells that are identical to animals, biologically, and and can be done vertically, and be placed right next to where the demand is, for me is it's mind boggling. And so I'm very hopeful that that is going to happen.

And I mean, the you know, we work closely with BlueNalu from from the beginning, and to see the PhDs that they've been able to hire and what they are putting together as quickly as they are it's been it gives me hope. And well, they don't knowBlueNalu.

Can you share a little bit more for our listeners?

Sure, BlueNalu is a is a cultivated meat but focused on seafood, sea creatures.

startup company was founded, I guess it was founded in 2017. And so we were involved with them from the beginning, thanks to friends, and other VCs that we're aligned with that helped me in forming clear current capital, as well as the Good Food Institute. And Lou Cooperhouse is their CEO and founder. And Lou has done an amazing job of putting together their team, putting together their platform, their lab work and attracting capital from literally all around the world.

You know, because what's happened in the tuna industry, what's happened in the seafood industry is we're we've fished it to the point now where there are you can't plan for a whether the animal that you're looking for is even available, and be what the price is going to be. So their supply chain aside from the pandemic is horrific.

And so here's here's an opportunity to switch to something that's that is grown from cells, now the cells are removed from a living creature, there, they're then taken into a lab and grown by feeding the cells, allowing it to grow in a very clean environment, what you end up with is meat and muscle that is identical to the animal itself. And so it's a much safer environment. It doesn't have plastics involved with it, it doesn't have micro plastics or or, you know, mercury within the fish because it's never been in the water. It's grown from cells.

And so, you know, there's some concerns about, you know, whether consumers are going to accept cultivated meat, I would argue that, that it's an opportunity for us to educate consumers on where their fish is coming from right now, because so much of what's in the marketplace right now is not healthy in the least to eat this label.

Carley Hauck 34:08

Right? I was gonna share that even the even the products that say dolphin safe, there's no real regulation, like how do we really know that? So I was sharing this with you the other day I went, or just before the interview started, I went to this local grocery store here in Bend called market of choice. And I went to one of the, you know, store clerks and I said, Do you sell Good Catch? Because I knew that based on their website, they were selling it and so we went to the you know, the seafood aisle where the canned tuna and whatnot is, and it was very low down on this shelf. It was kind of pushed back.

And for people that don't know what good catches This is another alternative plant based seafood and it's pretty much made out of chickpeas. Six legume. Yeah, it's fabulous. Really great. But as I'm looking at all the other products around Good catch, it's all saying dolphin safe, you know, reef friendly. But how do we really know that?

And I don't, I don't believe that that's true, there's going to be bycatch likely in anything, and what are their nets. And so these are the things that we as consumers really need to poke holes in, and be concerned about, and, and speak up against.

Curt Albright 35:35

And so talk about that, in the spirit see that it's another one of those, you know, greenwashed kind of things that, you know, you've got companies that are making donations to politicians to look, the other way to put some label on that has absolutely no oversight or bearing it just, it just makes consumers feel good. Like they're making the right choice. And it's unfortunate for animals and for the planet.

Carley Hauck 36:00

And I think what's so interesting about cultivated meat is that, you know, we're trying to meet consumers where they are, right, like, people aren't willing to let go of fish, if we were all really willing just to eat fruits and vegetables, and beans, we'd be fine. But these industries are being formed to meet consumers where they are in the sense that there's been so much science around how a vegan and vegetarian diet is better for the planet, it's better for our bodies, you know, gives more resources to everyone. But that doesn't seem to be enough motivation to get people to change because we're attached to certain patterns and habits.

And so cultivated meat, doesn't need to be here. But it does, because people aren't changing their habits, they're not changing and choosing differently. And so tell me more

Curt Albright 36:55

What I was gonna say, that's a great point, I completely agree. And that's why we as a fund, I mean, we're an impact fund first. And and the other side of that coin is we're trying to provide above market returns to our investors, so that we attract more capital into this space, we only invest in scalable companies that are all protein that in other words, we're not looking to feed the vegans or the vegetarians. You know, and again, I'm one, and I eat super healthy, but I'm not the 98% of the consumers that are out there. And if we're going to say this planet, we got to get to the other 98 sooner than later.

And so we're looking for to invest in scalable companies, startup companies that we can help grow and put on a solid foundation that are going to remove animals from the from the food system as quickly as possible. Yeah, so we're looking for strong founders that can can deliver and can deliver centerplate solutions.

We're not looking for vegetable patties, we're looking for meat that's that taste as good or better than the McDonald's burger or the or the Whopper, there's a reason why they sell a gazillion of them every day. It's because they taste good. And they're cheap. And so that's what we're trying to bring as a solution taste good, cheap and convenient.

Carley Hauck 38:13

And that's also why we're why we sell one of the most, you know, successful brands to start with was the impossible burger, because they recognize that's where the market was. That's where the demand was, how can we create a plant based product that tastes like a burger, and many people now have decided they liked the impossible burger better. And then Beyond Meat came out, and now has all these different products. And they're a publicly traded company. And I think that's really changed the landscape.

Curt Albright 38:50

I remember the day that that IPO hit for Beyond, and believe me, I was watching and and, and it just blew me away to see that stock trade up in premarket before it was physically trading in the market. And so the success of the IPO just, you know, burned a new path for the next IPO for for plant based food company. And that's the awareness. That's the consumer demand. I mean, it is there and it is real.

And so at this point, in our early stage, we're trying to get enough product in the market to to feed the demand that's already there. And that's a gift from, you know, those nonprofits like Mercy for Animals and the Good Food Institute that have raised the awareness. It's not always going to be that easy, and we're going to have a lot of competitors, but at the same time, we're trying to replace a trillion dollar meat industry. So we're far from saturation. That's not a concern of mine. The concern of mine is is trying to get these companies scaled up during a pandemic when we have distribution problems. Right and so there's there's you know, there's there's always going to be challenges and issues, but but but the pandemic is also doing is, is showing how, how many health issues there are in our supply chain from every angle as human beings, and how little we really know about how things are run. And everybody eats, you know, three, five times a day. So we were making conscious decisions. It has it has a byproduct on our own health. And it's a byproduct to the health of our planet.

And so it's, it's, it'll take time to raise the awareness. And but the good news is, is there's a lot of companies that are that are coming up, I think the next couple of years are going to be really exciting. And the cultivated meatspace I think will, hopefully we'll get an FDA USDA approval from from the US government within the next, you know, 12 months, I think we'll start to see product coming, you know, within the next two years to shelves, and I believe that if it all comes together the way it looks like it could, it'll happen quickly, because again, they can put massive amounts of food into the system quickly, just by by nature of the business model.

Carley Hauck 41:11

Thank you. So I think you probably understand this cycle better than I do. So when we look at Beyond Meat, you know, they started off as an early growth, early growth companies such as some of the ones that you're investing in, and then they, you know, were able to get into this more commercial space where you can see their products, at Whole Foods, at regular grocery stores all over and just egg, which is from the Eat Just company, Josh Tetrick, and whatnot. He's another one of the leaders that I highlight in the book, I've been so pleased to see Just Egg, that particular product in most grocery stores. And now there's, there's more products of Just Egg that are being offered.

And I feel curious, like, how do you go from that early growth, to really getting that type of reach? Because that's ultimately what we want. Because the more choices we have, that are available to all these different types of socio economic status, they're in the restaurants, they're in fast food chains, like good catch now is at Long John Silver's, which is awesome.

And I think, as impossible burger, I forgot what I mean, that's been a lot of restaurants, but it's also in fast food chains now as well, right?

Curt Albright 42:38

That's correct. Yeah. It takes time and capital. I mean, those are those are the ingredients and, and and, you know, good founders and management and, and consumer demand as well, correct? Yeah. Oh, no question. I mean, it could be, it could be the best product known demand. But if it's if the consumers don't want it, or doesn't fill some void, that's not gonna fly off the shelves, and the velocity is what the the retail grocery stores are looking for. So if it's not turning off the shelves, they weren't invited back. Right. Right.

But it's exciting to me back to Beyond Meat, I did want to mention that most people kind of have looked at the IPO and look at what's happened in such a short period of time, but I believe they were founded in like, 2009. This was not this was an overnight sensation that wasn't overnight. And so it takes time, it takes a lot of effort. It takes a lot of capital. And and that's one of the reasons why I really look for the at those founders, you know, if you find a really strong founder, no matter what their background is that that's heart LED, and really looking at this from a greater good perspective. That means a lot to me, especially coming from where I came from.

Carley Hauck 43:46

Definitely. So let's pivot just a little bit. You know, I've heard you use the word that it's an impact fund, how is that different than a regular fund? For our listeners?

Curt Albright 44:02

Sure. I mean, so we're a venture capital fund. And we are we invest in early stage, which means that we're typically investing we'll invest in companies that are pre revenue, will invest in their seed to series A, where we look to be fully invested in a company by the time their Series B comes through. So these are not publicly traded, private private companies.

On the impact front, I mean, a typical venture capital fund is looking for returns only, I mean, that's it. I mean, it's it's 100% about returns and and so venture capital funds where we get our money from his his investors. And so we have 26 investors in our fund one all aligned all unders you know, it's it's been a great journey from from that front, too. So 25 others and myself are in fund one. And, and there they have, you know, there's a continuum. They all understand why we're doing this. That's their complete drive, return is it important to them others return is very important to them.

So that's another reason why for me I want to take big picture I want to the impact is in the food industry and what our mission thesis is all around, you know, making food healthier and removing animals from the food system.

The returns I believe will come from who we're trying to put in the marketplace. Those are scalable companies that are all protein oriented centerplate. So if if there, if we come up with three or four more beyond meats, we'll do just fine by our investors, and those returns will get out into the public eye, and hopefully attract a whole lot more investment into this space. And it's already happening. I mean, Oat Just IPO was super successful. We're hearing rumblings that Eat Just and and Impossible, maybe doing IPOs, you know, fairly soon.

I mean, it's, the successes are there, there's also huge amounts of money that are waiting out the curve, private equity, late stage investors and venture capital, those are the really big funds, we're a small fund or fund one was a little over 13 million, we're targeting 50 million with our fund too. And we're doing we're trying to stay smaller, so that we can stay in that early stage where I feel like we'll have the greatest impact in helping this entire space.

Carley Hauck 46:22

Right, and the more companies and the more founders that are getting into this space, that are successful, we're able to really change the food system. Yep. And that's the goal so that we can have a flourishing planet and our humanity is able to eat in a much more healthy way that's in harmony with the earth. Yeah, I mean, the planet needs to heal. Totally, totally.

Curt Albright 46:53

So talk to me a little bit about some of the Good Food Institute, because I know that they're really supporting this movement, nationally, and internationally. And your connection with Bruce?

Curt Albright 47:05

Yeah, so I mean, to me, Bruce was kind of like a mentor to me, coming from my unhealthy world into the world of animal welfare. And, and the effects of eating animals from the food system, both in its supply chain and the way it works in and on humans in the planet, I really hadn't made a conscious decision to learn more about that, until that undercover investigation in North Carolina opened my eyes and, and Bruce was just extremely generous in showing me what was happening.

And when the Good Food Institute started, I believe they were 2016. So there was a lot going on in that little clump of years. And I'm just there I was, and boy was I lucky. And and so to watch them start, in my opinion, in the US Good Food Institute probably had the biggest influence on the successes of the plant based food industry as a whole.

I mean, we have momentum within this space. That's the, you know, we're 10x to growth numbers that are coming out of the food industry as a whole. And so it's really exciting to see the demand, it's really exciting to see the new supply, and they're a nonprofit. So there's not, you know, there's there's no concern about stealing information and that type of thing. They're here to support, the greater good no matter what angle it's coming from. So I see them as a hub of knowledge.

So individuals can go to GFI.org and feel good because they're at a nonprofits website, which is there to supply information so that you can make decisions that are right for you and your family. then beyond that, it's a corporate hub. So they help founders found companies, they help investors find those companies, they help investors give data and information into their nonprofit to help them make better choices as to you know, what's the company that's whitespace, that we need to get into the food system as quickly as possible to fill the void.

Those types of conversations are conversations that we have, often and and it's very exciting to me now, what they've done over the past, you know, three years is gone completely International. And everything is done strategically. I mean, they've they've gone to markets that needed help, whether that's building bridges to governments that want to actively help our industry because it was healthier for them. And that has happened, they've got boots on the ground in other countries that had volunteers with food connections that might be vital to changing the food system in a country like India, where there's just massive amounts of people and change that needs to happen. So, you know, kudos to the team at GFI because they're tackling something that is just absolutely meant and just doing a stellar job with it.

So they they have conferences, they have conferences in other countries, they have hubs set up to help people learn what's going on and make those decisions consciously about what speaks to them the deepest so that they can plug in and be super effective in the work that they're doing to help help make this happen.

Carley Hauck 50:18

That's wonderful. Thank you so much, I think that's going to be a really wonderful resource for people listening. And we'll definitely leave a link in the show notes.

So what I like to do with each of these interviews is really bring awareness, education, inspiration, but then calls to action. So for people that are listening, that are saying, Wow, I had no idea, you know, how devastating the food agriculture system was on the planet, or my eyes have been opened even more, and I actually really want to make different choices and how I invest, but also how I consume, what might you suggest and we've already talked about some of them, some of these amazing products people can start to buy, but also, if they really wanted to put their money. And and, you know, what we choose to really pay for I think, is kind of a way that we're voting so to speak, how might you suggest people and invest?

Curt Albright 51:24

Well, well, okay, there's two different cuz my mind went right to the impact side of it. So yeah, investing, let me hit that. Second. First of all, the easiest thing that we can do as individuals is stop eating animals. I mean, it just is. And it's healthier for us, the planet and for the animals, obviously. And one of my favorite sayings is, is love animals eat plants. And that's how I live my life and boys, and it's empowering. It's empowering to live authentically with my own belief system. So So that's my first invitation.

From an investment standpoint, there's a lot of vehicles coming to market. I mean, there's crowdfunding of companies that are happening that are extremely successful, there are rolling funds, which I really don't understand the structure. I'm an old time banker, I have my kind of structured ways of looking at finance and so there's new there's new funds that are coming out that have rolling closes that you can access with lower dollar amounts, we are structured as a traditional venture capital fund so we have a 10 year final and it's and so it's a very planned out easy to kind of understand structure. However, it's not highly regulated compared to my banking career was and so the federal government makes it mandatory that only accredited investors can invest in venture capital funds.

And so you can google accredited investor and it can give you the definition of that but but there will be more venture capital funds coming to market we're raising capital for our second fund right now there are at least two or three other aligned funds that are being raised right now. There's so there's so much capital needed into this space.

And again, just do your homework. You know, make sure you know the founders, make sure you know, you're aligned with the structure of what you're investing into. And just again, realize that that you're doing more than 98% of the humans walking the face of the earth if you're making conscious decisions to not eat animals.

So I cut myself some slack in early vegan when I went vegan in the beginning to realize that I just didn't know before and now I do and I'm doing something about it and yeah, I want to do more but I could burn myself out if I don't paste this it's it's a marathon not a sprint but but I believe the answers are in the food system if we're going to get this thing turned around quickly and you know if I can help anyone access or map out what's going on I'm happy to do so but but there is a lot of information a lot of movies you mentioned Seaspiracy, the same producer did a movie, I guess two or three years previously called Cowspiracy. And Cowspiracy is another one that's just fact based.

And Forks Over Knives was one I watched early on that was good for me because of the health issues and there's there's a lot of data and a lot of information out there and invite you to look at it.

Carley Hauck 54:23

Definitely. Thank you. Thank you so much, Curt. You know, another thing for folks that are just kind of getting interested in vegetarian or veganism and hopefully many of you are already, you know, one or two feet already in but there's so much wonderful community that I would also say as a benefit. I mean, even myself, so I went into this grocery store yesterday. I've been shopping at it for the last five weeks since I've been in Oregon. And the sales associate that I spoke to who just happened to be, you know, stocking the aisles. I asked about this particular plant based process Good Catch.

And, you know, was was talking to her about it and she proclaimed herself to be a vegan. And I said, Oh, well, have you seen this product? And we just started talking about different vegan products that we were both very excited about. And she didn't even know about Good Catch. But she said, Carly, have you checked out the community group here and Bender, that's specifically for vegans, there's a Facebook group, and they have all these gatherings and potlucks and, you know, so it's just very welcoming. And as I was shopping throughout the store, she came back to find me because she wanted to have another conversation.

And so I would just say, even if you're, you know, in this time, we're like, I feel we're all really trying to find the meaning, like, why are we here? What are what are we really standing for? And some of these things you might be in a community where you feel passionate about being a vegan or vegetarianism or more, you know, food justice, but there's not a big community and, and there is a community that you could even find online. And maybe that inspires you to move to that community. So I just kind of want to invite people to follow their heart. Follow the the Clear, Current Capital, so to speak, just kidding.

Curt Albright 56:35

No, I appreciate it the current. I mean, it's, it's so true. And that spoke deeply to me and identify exactly with what you're saying, because I went through that in the early days and loved it. And that's what we set up in Charlotte through the humane league office that we opened up there. And I ran the Charlotte Veg Fest for five years, and that community was just so tight. And everybody, again, is only kind of a different place. And that's, that's great.

But, you know, the bottom line was, is that we had this core belief that, you know, things needed to change, and they needed to change, because there was so much suffering around us and that we were putting inside of ourselves, you know, every day that were alive, and it just didn't have to be that way. So it was very empowering.

And, you know, almost any city has a tribe. And I know, I know that, you know, all these nonprofits have recipe booklets, they have all kinds of support and for social media and zoom, now it's so easy to connect with people that, that share your belief systems and are there to really support you not to point fingers or, or any of that stuff. I mean, again, I mean, I came from a complete opposite world. So the last thing I want to do is shame somebody for eating meat.

What I want to do is inspire other people to feel the goodness that comes from living an authentic lifestyle.

Carley Hauck 57:52

Definitely. Well, Curt, this was such a wonderful interview, I really enjoyed the conversation. One last question that I have is, you know, I know that you've been very much on this spiritual path. And I feel curious as you're leading in such a, what do we want to say exciting, but I'm sure kind of an intense time with all the things and projects, how do you keep yourself balance? Do you use that word at the very beginning? Like what are the practices that are keeping you able to, you know, swim through all the other waves, so to speak, in addition to that, that, I mean, you feel very clear on why you're here and what you're here to do, but I missed that what else is supporting you right now?

Curt Albright 58:44

My entire life really, I mean, it's set up because it's, it speaks deeply to me I got remarried to someone who I share core beliefs with, I start every day with prayer meditation. You know, I have my tribe in recovery. I have my tribe in in this world. And I you know, I moved to Florida that was more of a personal choice than anything else. And I resource in nature. And so to resource amongst the palm trees, I kayak on the Indian River. I mean, having that offshoot, I probably don't feed myself those kind of things as much as I would like to just because there's so much that needs to be done but, but I know that when I start getting off my own balance beam, I start feeling it. And and that's not who I want to be. So you know, I have to take care of myself in order to be useful to others.

Carley Hauck 59:40

Thank you. Thank you. Is there anything else you'd like to leave our listeners or to share before we end?

Curt Albright 59:48

I’m just grateful to be here, I appreciate you inviting me and, you know, again, if there's any way I can be of service to your listeners, to help kind of open up this world. I would love to be there. So our website is clearcurrentcapitital.com and and I think you've put a link up to that and and feel free to put a link to my email. And and I'm on LinkedIn too. So happy to have you to help if anyone is interested in mapping out this side of the world. Thank you for having me.

Carley Hauck 1:00:26

Thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.

Curt is a human being I literally feel like I could talk to you for weeks and weeks.

Curt, thank you so much for your heart and your commitment to really creating a world that is living in greater harmony with the planet and is supporting all beings to thrive. Thank you for your leadership.

If you would like to speak to Curt and learn more about his company Clear Current Capital and how you might support him, his LinkedIn handle is in the show notes.

Before we part, I wanted to leave you with some research, some resources and a call to action.

So this topic is something that I feel really passionate about, which is why I focused on

three different leaders in the space in my book. But I wanted to leave you with some inspiring research. This was published in the peer reviewed journal Foods. This research was led by Dr. Kerry Syngenta of Arizona State University, where it surveyed more than 2000 US consumers and over 2000 Uk consumers to examine attitudes and perceptions of the general population on novel cultivated protein products. It was found in this research that consumers believe that cultivated protein could make up as much as 40% of their future meat intake, and an examined attitudes and adoption of cell based meats among US and UK consumers. The study also found patterns of greater willingness and interest from younger generations to try these products. Though general levels of acceptance was observed across all age groups.

Here's another sobering statistic.

The United Nations has warned that we have less than a decade left before the most catastrophic effects of climate change are irreversible. One of the reasons that we have these great challenges ahead of us is because it is estimated that 70 to 80% of deforestation in the Amazon is contributed to meat production. But as you heard from the conversation that Curt and I had, if you eat less meat, and you eat more plants, and you vote with your dollars, and you ask for products, that are living in greater harmony with the planet, are supporting the wellbeing of animals, you asked for this in your grocery store and you choose it.

This is one of the most significant things that you can do to start to mitigate climate change.

be educated and be an active consumer. This is being a conscious inclusive leader. So if you would like a little more education and you'd like some wonderful products to try, here's some resources for you.

Three documentary films I highly recommend: Seaspiracy, Meat Me Halfway, and Need to Grow. The producer of Need to Grow was in a previous podcast panel with Josh Tetrick, who is the CEO and co-founder of Eat Just. And he's also one of the leaders in my book, and that is on how to be a courageous leader in the midst of climate change. It's a wonderful panel and I think you might really enjoy it if you liked this conversation.

I also would love to recommend my book. In my book, I talk about the pathway of how to be a conscious and inclusive leader but in that there are a lot of practices and a lot of ways we can apply, how to be mindful consumers, how to be eating in a way that's in harmony with animals and the planet. And so there are lots of opportunities to practice if you listen to the audiobook or you purchase the hardcopy.

I would also recommend Draw Down as an incredible resource of a book. And there is a new online course of how you can actually follow along in the book that was put out through the Pachamama Alliance earlier this year. And the Pachamama Alliance is an organization I highly respect and the co-founder is Lynne Twist who is an incredible leader and wrote the foreword for my book.

I would also recommend the Riddick terian cookbook, which is a new book I discovered and it speaks to 125 plant based meals. And then of course, there's the wonderful Good Food Institute.

And then if you want to start eating more plant based foods, you want to reduce your meat consumption. Here are a few of my favorite products that I could not live without. So I'm a big fan of the Just Egg for me eat just I eat it a few times a week. I also really like Good Catch, which is a plant based seafood alternative. Abbott's Butcher has this plant based chorizo, I don't even like real sausage I've never had but they're plant based version is amazing. And Sweet Earth is also wonderful. They have a wonderful plant based sausage again, I've never really gotten into real sausages but their sausages are great. They taste like vegetables but kind of smoky and I love the taste of vegetables. Miyokose is a dairy free cheese. REBBL is another one of the companies and leaders I highlight in my book and they have some incredible smoothie and plant based elixirs that are full of superfoods. There's Omnifoods, there's Alphafoods, there's incredible products by Beyond Meat. Light Life has a really wonderful tempeh that I use all the time.Wholy Veggie is a new product that I just discovered, which is in the frozen food section and it's gluten free and vegetables. I am also recommending all products that are gluten free because I have had a gluten allergy since I was a little girl so I don't eat any dairy and I don't eat any gluten. And then my absolute favorite chocolate which is just honey and rocket cow is Honey Mamas. If you have not experienced them, they're amazing. I keep trying to get them in the North Carolina Whole Foods and they have refused but they are missing out. Luckily the West Coast knows what it's out what's up because I can find it out here. It's a little bit challenging to find it on the east coast. But hopefully with this podcast that will change. And then I also have plant based smoothies in the morning for breakfast most days. And I use Good Karma which is a flaxseed, protein milk that I really love.

So there it is, those are some of my suggestions. And if you're feeling inspired to bring more of this topic or conversation to your company or organization and you want to create a culture while being an inspired, conscious, inclusive leadership, please reach out to me I'd love to talk to you and you can book a free consultation and the link is in the show notes.

Until we meet again. I wish you good health, a nourishing summer and I have lots of incredible podcast interviews coming your way to keep you inspired so that you can be the light and shine the light.

Nisha Paliwal, Managing VP of Engineering at Capital One is bold and authentic, who believes in human centered leadership. She is an emerging leader in Technology, Nisha is a visionary technologist and passionate change agent. Nisha joined Capital One in 2015 in Finance Tech, moved on to Small Business Tech and is now the Vice President of Software Engineering in Card, where she is leading the transformation of Core Modernization.

At Capital One, she leads the enterprise Women in Tech Task Force, focusing on retention, development and leadership through empowerHER. She leads her team with heart in every interaction, from listening, supporting them to feel valued, engaged, and instilling psychological safety so they can bring their whole selves to work. Nisha’s passion is empowering others and, in that vein, is a mentor to many and volunteers her personal time with CodeVa, which focuses on STEM education for K -12.

On this podcast interview, Nisha and I speak about the importance of learning, leading with love, curiosity, how to stay connected to ourselves, to our teams, and our families in this time of uncertainty. We also explore the practices that keep us grounded so we can continue to shine our light in the greatest of ways at work and in the world.

The First Step to Human Centered Leadership with Nisha Paliwal SEO Description:

Nisha Paliwal, Managing VP of Engineering at Capital One is bold and authentic, who believes in human centered leaders. She leads her team with heart in every interaction, from listening, supporting them to feel valued, engaged, and instilling psychological safety so they can bring their whole selves to work. On this podcast interview, Nisha and I speak about the importance of learning, leading with love, curiosity, how to stay connected to ourselves, to our teams, and our families in this time of uncertainty. We also explore the practices that keep us grounded so we can continue to shine our light in the greatest of ways at work and in the world.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Nisha LinkedIn

empowerHER

Conscious & Inclusive Leadership Retreat

Leading from Wholeness Executive Coaching

Leading from Wholeness Learning and Development Resources

Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World by Carley Hauck

Contact Carley Hauck

The Imperfect Shownotes

Carley Hauck 00:01

Hi, this is Carley Hauck, your host of the SHINE podcast. Welcome to another wonderful episode. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, conscious, inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams and awareness practices. I will be facilitating three powerful episodes a month. Before I tell you about our topic today. If you would be willing to go over to Apple podcasts, hit the subscribe button. And if you love this interview, please write a positive review. It helps so much. Thank you.

Our topic for today is the first step of human centered leadership with Nisha Paliwal. Nisha Paliwal is managing Vice President at Capital One. She and I connected because she found my book, Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World and shared it with her community on LinkedIn. This was a few months ago in April 2021. I felt touched by her acknowledgment and reached out and wanted to get to know her and hear more about how the book had positively impacted her and her leadership. After a few conversations with Nisha, it just felt like such an incredible opportunity to bring this conscious, inclusive and heart centered leader onto the podcast so that I could share her story with you all.

Let me tell you a little bit about Nisha and our interview.

Nisha is an emerging leader in technology, a visionary, technologist and passionate change agent. She joined Capital One in 2015 in finance tech, moved on to small business tech, and is now the managing Vice President at Capital One of software engineering in card where she is leading the transformation of core modernization. She leaves the enterprise women in tech tax force focusing on retention development and leadership through empowerHER. Nisha also has a big heart for her associates and desires for them to feel valued, engaged, and psychologically safe so they can bring their whole selves to work. Nisha's passion is empowering others and in that vein, she is a mentor to many, and volunteers her personal time with code VA, which focuses on STEM education for K through 12. She is also a proud mom to Anya, 16 and Yoshi, 12.

In this interview, Nisha and I speak about her passion for learning, personal and professional development, how she manages a large team of 450 team members. And then her direct senior reports of six. She leads with authenticity, love, and weekly notes that really share her experience, vulnerability and support to everyone to feel connected, and that she's always accessible and available to them.

We talk about what practices have supported her through the pandemic, and what continues to help her shine her light in the best of ways at work and at home, starting with strong mentorship, the circle of people she surrounds herself with and her daily meditation practice. There are so many gems in this interview you don't want to miss.

Carley Hauck 03:55

Thank you for joining the SHINE Podcast. I am here with a courageous and authentic leader, Nisha Paliwal. Nisha, thank you so much for being with me today.

Carly, it's such a pleasure to be with you this afternoon. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you. Well, one of the first questions that I often ask leaders that join me is what does conscious and inclusive leadership mean to you?

Nisha Paliwal 04:21

Yeah, great question. So three things. Being conscious means to me that I know myself. I know my feelings. I know how I'm reacting to things. So I'm aware of my surroundings. I'm aware of my inner self. And I'm aware of my behaviors because that subconsciousness is a lot about me, my surroundings and my behavior towards the surrounding. Inclusivity is more to me

is about how I'm making sure that in decision making that in bringing people along, how am I doing that? How am I making sure that they are all feeling that they are included in the decision making, that they are included in getting appreciation, that they are included in being part of the team. And the last one to wrap up both the consciousness and the inclusivity. What this has meant to me, is what you started with, which is literally ABC for me, authenticity, being bold, and being courageous.

Carley Hauck 05:44

Authenticity, being bold and being courageous. Lovely. Lovely. Yeah. And on your LinkedIn profile, you have a bold change agent. Tell me more about that. What does that mean to you, why’d you pick that?

Nisha Paliwal 06:01

Yeah, and before I answer the question, let me tell you a little bit about my background, which is where this all comes from. So my dad worked for a commercial bank in India for 40 years. And every three years he decided to take the deputation, meaning going from places to places for his work. And he did that. Probably based on his career aspirations, or what but he rose in that company from almost being an associate to a pretty senior, I think when I was CEO of the company, pretty large company, pretty large bank, same company, right. But what that did to me was like, I'm moving from place to place all my schooling, making new friends, learning new culture.

And the big aha moment was one time we actually moved from should compare. So we moved from Rock Hill, South Carolina, all the way to New York City to comparison wise, right in India.

And that was a big shock to me. Oh, my gosh, how can we move from, you know, Big City, New York to you know, South Carolina Rock Hill, right? I couldn't anticipate me and my sister, my sister was one and a half years older than me. So we were very close. We plunged into that with him, we were still like, going into high school. We didn't know the school, we didn't know the people. But the aha moment was the culture that we learned of this new place, new small town, right? The friends we made, they are still my friends right, from that time to this time.

And I think from that time, the change agency is kind of beaten in me. I love the aspect of exploration. I love the aspect of meeting new people. I love the aspect of learning, which is a big payment. My life is constantly learning, learning people, learning their culture and learning what brings them together.

So yeah, I think change agency is a big part of who I am, I often say, if you did not know me by my first name, you know me as a change agent.

Carley Hauck 08:10

Hmm, thank you for sharing your background around the history with your father, and working in banking and moving from New York to South Carolina, and even your ability to stay connected with those people from childhood. And then your love of learning. And often I say leaders are learners. And I feel like if we're not continually investing in our personal and professional growth, then we're not going to be able to be the best leaders. And I know from having conversations with you, you have this voracious appetite for learning. And that's actually how you and I first became connected because you read my book, and you really loved my book. And I feel so grateful that it has benefited you. That was the big reason that I wrote it was to really support leaders like yourself, to shine in the best of ways and to really support your team and your company through uncertainty through ambiguity, ambiguity through complexity. And we've been experiencing a lot of that.

We always have but even maybe more so in the last year since the pandemic, and so I'd love to talk a little bit more about your role a Capital One, the team members that you support, and actually how you feel like you've been able to be an authentic heartful courageous leader in the last year. That's kind of a big question, but we'll start there.

Nisha Paliwal 09:50

Yeah, no, definitely. And I think you're right last year has tested, tested a lot of us in many, many ways and leadership is wonderful. Of course where the demand was high people were looking at us for many, many answers through the pandemic, to the global events that happened in the United States, in India. And like there was an endless list of things where we often look to our leaders like what are we supposed to do? What are we doing? Where are we going? Right? And how do we cope up to all this?

And, and one thing is very true about me, I often say I don't have all the answers. But what I have is what I say tooling, right. And back to the learning that you said, all these tools that I use on a constant basis to keep informed to say how to pivot, right. So books are huge. You already mentioned, your book was one of the fantastic reads I had, and so did many other books that I read podcasts, there's my favorite ways to connect to different cultures, different mentors, and hear what everybody is doing.

And with the team, I started some practice, which is really very fulfilling. What I do is every Monday morning, I write them a letter. And the letter consists of two things. One is my own learning, and how that has impacted. So when I read your book, I went and shared that Monday like to kind of read this book, and this is what it's all about. And so I do for many other topics. So whatever I have learned in the week, I will share back, whatever I'm feeling I share back. So the connection of how I'm feeling, and I go down very deep, I be, I be very vulnerable, because there were days last year, I feel like I don't have it together. And frankly, even now, right 16 months being in the basement.

So what I do for Capital One, is I run a very critical piece of infrastructure, which supports our card issuance. So meaning every time Carly, you're swiping your credit card, you're talking to me. So at the intensity, right, so we have about 6000 transactions per second that hit my infrastructure. So it's very intense, right? It's 24/7, the job is very intense. And on top of it, you have this pandemic that's going on, right. So I would share my feelings in those letters, I would share how I am and I am about 450 people who work for me. And I would share, right like how I'm feeling and how I'm coping up with that. I felt like those. And then on a weekly basis, not everybody responds, but there will be a handful of them. Right?

Like you were mentioning, you wrote the book to impact and let us shine the light. And by the way, I love the title of the book. Thank you, I feel like that's what our job as leaders is like sharing how you are doing, sharing how you are coping up, and still bring the lightness in the in the moment and being admitting where you might not be at the right spot somebody else might be and be open to receiving from others as well. It's not just about leader as leaders, I feel like we sometimes feel our job is to only give good, good, right. And I think this is where again, my my learning mindset helps me is like, how do I receive from people on that? And there are a lot of people in those letters who will respond, right? And who will say, and then I will catch up with them on a different zoom call or however, the phone call.

So that's been my cadence. And that has really helped me stay connected with the team. keep improving, keep learning and continuously make progress because I think so much unknown Carley these days, right? It's just so much uncertainty about everything. But it's about making progress every step of the way. And how do we make sure we do that collectively, right?

Carley Hauck 13:45

Well, thank you for sharing that. I love the idea that you were sending letters to your team of 450 every week, and just sharing authentically what you were learning and what you were experiencing. When you were talking about really sharing vulnerability about your feelings? No, this is one of the things that I write about in the book, but also that's showcased in the research when leaders showcase their vulnerability, and especially when they're really speaking to their emotions. They're giving other people on their team permission to feel and permission to also be vulnerable and authentic. And it lets people know that you're doing the best that you can as well. And I think that imparts a level of accessibility, and a level of just the ability that like I can go to this leader and I don't have to have it all together. And I think it just makes you more human, so to speak. You know, you're being a more human centered leader.

Nisha Paliwal 14:57

Yeah, I think that's what, I think you talk about in your book. I think Amy Edmondson has talked about this quite a bit right? As humans, we feel like we are always judged. But when you can actually talk to a leader, and I get this comment often, I am at a very senior position at Capital One, I often get because of my title, like people like, oh, at your level, we can come still talk to you. And I'm talking to people at every level of the organization who can come talk to me.

To your point, right? The doors are always open, Slack is always there. I always find time for people, that busy card, I never play that busy card, right? If I'm not helping my people, if I'm not there for my people, then what am I doing? I'm busy, useless then, right? So my philosophy is my prioritization is all about people and going and clearly reaching out or when they reach out responding to them. Because that's when they are able to put their guards down, that, hey, no judgment will be passed to us just because she's a VP. And we can talk to her, right?

So I think that is becoming more and more critical. Why? Because during the pandemic, many things are being shut down from us, right, those human connections, the human touch, that we used to have, if you're feeling sad, we can give a hug to each other, and feel better about it. But that's all gone. Right. So what is left is these zoom calls and phone calls that are left and, and we need to be able to extend that warmth and love to the humans that we interact with.

And so I feel like at the end, of course, you know, at work, some of those, you know, being vulnerable with those feelings. Sometimes it's, you know, it hurts, right? To be vulnerable, because it hurts to, you know, tell who you are truly, and be able to share it. So I try to Carley, I try, I try my best.

Carley Hauck 16:50

It’s interesting how you use the word ‘hurts’, because I actually feel a little differently in that when I am able to express my feelings, and I'm able to create space, to allow others to express, there's actually usually more healing that happens. And I know you and I were using that word before we started the recording. You know, often I've thought of myself in the roles that I've come into when I worked as a leadership and organizational development consultant. And I've worked with a lot of HR business partners and supported manager and leadership development programs that I feel like I'm often coming in because they is suffering happening. And I'm coming in as a healer, so to speak, to apply different interventions, different trainings, whether that's increasing psychological safety or supporting more inclusion in the way that we are, you know, choosing our stories in our narratives, or even in the way that we're communicating. And so, going back to the word of hurt, do you really think it's been hurt? Or has it been healing for you to share and for you to also hear other people share their feelings?

Nisha Paliwal 18:08

Yeah, no, give you a perfect story of why I use that word and my own example. So yeah, I was at Capital One. And I lost my eldest sister, five, five years ago now in a mobile accident, and it was very sudden. I was calling from India that she's gone, I must take the next flight and go back home. I left everything as is at work and went home to support my parents and of course, review her last rites. When I came back, I just couldn't speak to anybody. I was in shell shock. She was only a year and a half older to me, even today, I can probably cry telling you the story, but she was very close to me, right? So being able to share about her would hurt a lot.

This is the beauty of your leaders and the ecosystem if they are in the right place, what they can do for you. And actually, at that time, I had a director, unfortunately, he also lost his sister who was also very close to him. Now he is in New York and I'm coming back from India. Right and one fine day we just talked to each other. We just opened up. We both probably cried for hours and we opened up right and that's when that's when you are using the word heal. Healing happened when we were able to open up and be heard, and all that while because you are at work. Can you actually do that? Not really, because it's a you know, corporate America it's a work environment. Can you actually cry at work? Or how are you going to people be taking you right? And that's the day today's day is very good friend is still at Capital One and and then it was it became easier for a period of time and I'm able to now more open share her story and talk about it.

But I'll tell you first few months coming back with that kind of loss and tragedy, it was hurtful. And I did not know. Can I tell? And I just joined Capital One, right? So it was not like I can Can I can I not right. And I've not made friendships, I didn't know.

Carley Hauck 20:25

You didn't know if it was safe, right would people hold it against you? What’s their psychological safety to be able to be that, that brave and authentic?

Nisha Paliwal 20:30

Exactly. That is the point, right is up is the whole point about relationship building and being able to trust each other and say, Hey, can I and that's why, as a leader, my job is to make sure I create that space, but we can have hardest of conversation and not feel like we are being judged. Right. And this place actually offers many, many training and materials. And I think we are trying to bring you as well, like, this is a theme here, right? Still people being able to share being vulnerable, and to not worry about boundaries. Right?

Carley Hauck 21:05

Right. And having the leaders like yourself, that again, are leaving from that place are showing, I'm available to really talk to you, I'm available to connect, you know, even in the midst of this very difficult, challenging time. And that creates more safety where people really, they test it, they test Well, can I really share this with her or with my team? And then they wait to see, what's the impact? What's the reaction? Oh, that was safe. And then they try again. And then they lean a little bit further, right. And so it evolves over time.

But first, I just want to say thank you so much for sharing, about the context of why you use the word hurt. And also I just feel really touched, hearing this beautiful bond that you made with this other team member because of your willingness to share. And then he was able to join you in a very shared lived experience. And it sounds like that has created a relationship that has really lasted over years.

Nisha Paliwal 22:30

Yeah, and I think it lasts for life. I think I don't give off I guess. So you're in trouble. You're with me for the rest of the life.

Carley Hauck 22:34

Well, I would say he's lucky. He's got some very good company. Wonderful. Well, let's, let's shift a little bit. Back to this letter. I feel so curious. When you're sharing these feelings and being more vulnerable. If you're willing to share without breaking any safety yet, we don't need to say any names. But what were some of the responses that you received from team members that stood out to you?

Nisha Paliwal 22:59

Yeah, so I think what time I must have, for this week, actually, this week I shared. I talked to my boss, my first boss in India. I'm still friends with him as my agency friends. He's my mentor. And he is a compulsive, optimist and voracious reader. That's where I get my reading from actually. So optimist and what is what is his name, by the way, if we're going to give him a little light,

Mr. Kadisha, we should definitely give him light, he was my first boss, and a lot of credit really goes to him. So I was sharing about him in my letter, and actually, I have 1996, he used to write these handwritten letters to us at that time when I used to look for him.

So I have that in a picture. So I shared that picture and the letter with everybody. And I was talking about coaching in general and how we all can be coaches, we just have to find one in ourselves. And the coaches that have impacted me personally have been those who have connected from heart. And he is one of them. That's why I still talk to him. It was his birthday. So I gave him a call. And we had a long chat over many topics. So I was sharing and many employees actually many of my teammates, I should say responded back saying things like, you know, thank you for sharing how wonderful this mentor of yours or coach or manager was and how they find me doing a lot of those things for them that I don't realize sometimes that I do coach in the moment right and it's it's through the through the letter.

So I received some of those, you know, assurances sort of trial, that hey, how this can positively impact and back to your book title, right? I always remember that shine is to code this shine through some other contexts, but it's really about how we can pass that light to each other, and how we can make this brighter place, you know, through through that connections, having, I didn't even have to go through I mean, if you talk to, I call him Sir, if you talk to some of my Sir, you will hear how much how much he went through his life right from life threatening disease to many things, right. But how he has been able to coach me and many others probably right? to spread this light back to your book shine, right?

That's what it is like being a leader about is like being able to spread the light amidst how much darkness or uncertainty or what might be around. So I got several of the my ones shared on Mother's Day I shared about my mom, she has been a stay at home mom, there was a picture of one time she wore pants and shirt, she never wear pants and shirt. That was a one time she will whenever I wasn't born, there was a picture of her. So I said that picture with everybody. And I told them how selflessly she has served entire life. And even today she does, right. And in India, it's pretty common for mothers not to work and be at home and so I was sharing about her and how. And they were like reflecting how I have some of those qualities of selflessness. Like you got to stop thinking like mothers, right? Mothers don't think about them. Many times they think about the kids and it's all about kids, right?

I say the workplace needs to be more of a family. Right? So I reflect back on some of that and say, Can workplace be we say it is like family? But can it be family? Right? We do so much for our family. If you think about it, mothers do so much for the kids and right is parenting slash so many things mixed into leadership, right.

Carley Hauck 26:54

And we spend so much of our time at work. And now in the midst of the pandemic and the future of work, which is going to be remote and hybrid. We are spending so much time at home and at work, right? We bring our whole selves to work at home and we're in each other's living rooms and basements. And there's really not any separation. And so I love the idea of how do we create family and treat each other like family, you know, with love, with care. And I think those are the teams and the companies that are going to be most successful. Why would we want to work for a team that we didn't feel like had our backs or where we couldn't bring our whole selves? Or we weren't feeling empowered to bring our light, right because we can all you know do it on our own. We have to be sharing their load, their responsibilities. And, and the wonderful, you know, delights of work together.

Nisha Paliwal 28:00

Yeah, yeah, truly, I mean, one of my colleagues here, her name is Maureen. She often uses the word I love you. Right. And my entire, you know, body sparkles when she says that, like that is so much affection for teammates. And you know, how much do you hear that in corporate America? I love you. Right. There's not a common theme here. But yeah, that I'm talking about, I think Simon Simon Sinek also talks in many of his podcasts about how there's a difference between military life and the corporate america lifeline.

But yeah, my effort is my hope is every day I leave work, people feel that they are more attached. And just this morning, one of my directors, Rakesh Dyer, was telling me how this place feels like a family. I'm like, why does it just feel like a family. Why is it not a family? Because he's feeling that he's feeling the love is feeling the connection is feeling the right. So it's fascinating for me that we have a lot of work to do to create that work environment, but work in progress.

Carley Hauck 29:08

So I hear that one of your direct reports Rakesh was sharing that it feels like family, that the team that he's on with you. That's lovely.

Nisha Paliwal 29:25

Yeah, I think the word how he shared with me this morning is like earlier, it used to feel like project and delivery and you know, we are doing it. And we would I mean, all the people who are smart will probably get the word done. work is never really problem for smart people. Right? It's taking time to build the relationship, taking time to share about each other's values, the culture and the rules that they live by. Right. So he was telling me the last whole year has been feeling more connection and more association with each other knowing not just Hey, the world can be architects or whatever.

Delivering, we have, by the way, very high performing teams, it's not like they cannot deliver. But what can go above and beyond the delivery here and now, right, and being able to build those long lasting relationships, as I call them. So my childhood friend is still my friend, my first boss is still Mike coach, like they cannot dismiss their role in my life. Right. And they probably continue for a long time. So yeah, that I was excited to hear that he's, he's feeling different. And he was able to share that with me.

Carley Hauck 30:35

Well, I feel so curious. You know, I know that in the book, there is a focus on the inner game, which is really these qualities on the inside, that we're growing so that we can be a conscious and inclusive leader on the outside. And you and I have spoken about this, you know, offline. But some of those qualities that I really highlight in the book are self awareness, and emotional intelligence, and empathy and resilience, and well being, love and authenticity.

And when you think about the qualities that you have developed on the inside, that support you to lead in this way. I mean, I, I know you have a lot on your plate, you know, you, you've got two children, you've got this team of 450, you have a mentor in India and a childhood friend in South Carolina and all these people that you're staying connected to. And I just wonder how do you make time for yourself for your learning? For all these people? Like what are those qualities that enable you to show up in this way?

Nisha Paliwal 31:46

Yeah, so. So I'll share a few things. My dad is my life coach. Of course, mom is mom. But that has taught me so many things. And one of the wonderful things he taught me, which I was sharing with you, I think if we have common, I probably did started younger than you. But he started coaching us into yoga and meditation, probably from 10 or 12. So we were both of us, we also used to play badminton. So we were very big into sports as well. So at that time, it was like, of course, you have to force us to do any yoga and meditation, but he kept us teaching. So he's himself a teacher of art of living, which is a breathing? Oh, yes, yes, I'm very familiar.

He's a teacher, he started teaching us from a very early age, I'll tell you, I did not get the sense and what it can do for me for years, because practice is what takes. Meditation, as you know, is what it takes.

And as you said, my job is pretty high profile, I'm always on very, very high energy. And sometimes that's a negative but that energy largely comes from my practice of yoga meditation, I get up very early in the morning. So I'm up at 4 or 4:30am, I spend a lot of time on my physical health. So that's cardio first thing in the morning, and, you know, running whatever I do, I do mostly running outside, but many exercises inside the house, then I spent a lot of time in this spiritual thinking and making sure I calm down my focus. You know, that's why I think in studies also, when I used to get up early morning, it really helped me focus and really bring that and you started, right, you started this podcast with the mindfulness, right? That's what we do that here. And I'm so proud that you're practicing that from a young age as well.

Then I spend time on reading, because that's my learning time as well. So that four to seven in the morning is so described, like prescribed time for me, and it has been for many, many years, that I'm not ready to give up, right, that self care that I need. And in some cases where I have a sorrow or a heart, then in that morning time, I also reflect I also think about how truly am I feeling?

Because I don't want to go to work at 7, 7:30 whenever my work starts with the heart that is sinking and it's not like many people you talk to my all hands mostly starts with the jumping jacks, for example, right? Like I do things which is high energy, and I want them to feel that energy, right? Because if you go to meetings with a sunken heart or us I'm not saying I'm not a human, I always have that. But that time in the morning Carley helps me really balanced myself on from all angles.

And many of they of course my life coach My dad is a phone call away so many days during the pandemic last year. I called him every day and of course, we had the unfortunate news that he suffered from third stage lymphoma. During this time, unfortunately, I couldn't be physically with him, but he used to get on phone and so much positivity again, right like the healing part that you said that you will do the treatment of course, he went through the treatment, chemo and everything. But he's so much believer in this positive strokes and, and you get that first thing in the morning from your life coach, guess what, how your day goes? a supersonic jet, right. So

Those are very fortunate between, you know, books like yours pod pay positive podcast, and some of the coaches and who I have in my life has been really, really instrumental in making who I am today.

Carley Hauck 35:48

Wonderful. So what I'm hearing is that you've really prioritized this time for your own learning for your own spiritual development, this 4:30 to seven time, most people would not want to get up that early. But I hear that that's really been your commitment to you. And is one of the reasons that you're able to show up so bright, and in your life as a leader, but also as a human being. And I also hear that the circle of people that you surround yourself with, empower you, they encourage you maybe to push yourself harder, but harder, and maybe harder is not the right word, I would say, challenge you to be better, challenge you to be more positive.

Nisha Paliwal 36:47

Yeah, they are the fuel. They're the goal in my life. So they definitely fuel my life in many, many positive ways. So unfortunate.

Carley Hauck 36:52

Well, before we go, cuz I know we could talk for a very long time, and I hope we will be able to have more conversations offline, I would, I would love to stay connected and see how I can best support you. And I know that you feel really passionate about women and tech. Could you tell me a little bit more about that?

Nisha Paliwal 37:15

Yeah, because when I came to this country, frankly, I found myself very lonely in the field of technology. But again, being as fortunate as I am, your draft, who was my first manager here in the United States, I still talk to him again, relationship. So I'm in touch with him. He taught me a lot of things. Of course, I'm very in depth with what whatever he has taught me. But I found as I grew in my career, lesser and lesser women, were in the collective.

And then of course, I learned that not a lot of school kids want to even go to technology, because that's a geeky route, why do I want to go in technology. So I took upon this audacious goal, that delay, I'm going to survive, I'm going to really spend a lot of time in developing retaining that talent for all of us. So that one, I can stop the pipeline that is leaking, meaning bringing the school aged kids to be interested, including my own daughter, who is very, very interested in technology, the younger one is or two is already a technologist. and many others will look upon me as a role model and bringing them to the workforce, and try to help them with whether by like, what worked for me what didn't work for me and being, you know, in the coach and a mentor capacity, and in some cases, being responsible for them, because at my level, that's expected that I can actually bring them along in the journey, right?

So yeah, I'm very passionate. So that's a whole, like you said, hold a conversation. I'm right now spearheading a part time workforce at Capital One, I'm really hoping that gets kicked off. And a couple places in the globe. There's an Indian bank, and there's a UK company that I'm talking to. So I'm really hoping that we can retain and bring this much needed diversity in technology field.

Carley Hauck 39:12

Wonderful, wonderful. I look forward to seeing how that continues to go. I really appreciate your time today and you sharing your story and your light. I know it's going to empower and influence many people. Is there anything else you'd like to leave people with our ways to get in touch with you?

Nisha Paliwal 39:35

Yeah, one, of course. So don't touch like we had touched in LinkedIn. Like you said, One, I would say definitely read your book. So for all the audience, it's such a practical and a complete book. It has all the chapters that I would want for holistic care wholesome, right. I think to me, the book came across as all the topics we are dealing with and how to really get yourself together. So one I would say definitely read your book. I'm also trying to get you to speak to some of the Capital One teams, I'm really hoping they can benefit. And second, I think the way I've heard your podcast and I'm gonna end like that, because I really like it, which is let's shine our light together.

Carley Hauck 40:22

Ah, yes, let's do that. Let's shine it in the ways that business can really be a force for good in the world. Yes. Thank you so much. Carley. What a beautiful interview. Thank you Nisha, for being the conscious, inclusive leader you are, if you want to connect with Nisha, her LinkedIn handle will be in the show notes.

As you heard, Nisha, and I first connected because she had read my new book SHINE. And I would love for you to add this to your summer reading list. It's available in hardcover and audio book, it will support you to be the kind of leader our world needs now. So that you can bring new tools and inspiration to this remote, hybrid future of work. And the links are in the show notes for SHINE.

Additionally, if you're interested in learning how to cultivate conscious, inclusive leaders at your organization, you want to build psychological safety, have high performing teams and a flourishing, inclusive culture, for this future of work. As we are all navigating the uncertainty, please reach out to me this is what I specialize in. I offer trainings, assessments and larger scale programs to support you and your business to align your values with your mission. So the business can truly be a healing organization and a force for good in the world.

If you're seeking someone to support you in a more full time capacity in these topics, please feel free to contact me. I would be happy to book a free consultation with you or put you in touch with someone who can help because I have a big network and I love to help people. Thank you again for listening to this episode and the SHINE podcast. It's wonderful to have you as part of my community. And if you have questions, or suggestions for other topics, feel free to reach out support at Carley Hauck dot come and until we meet again, be the light and shine the light.

How can we commit to renewable investing as individuals, businesses, shareholders, and customers? This is the topic of the Shine podcast this week with my friend Joel Solomon. Joel is a Co Founding Partner of Renewal Funds, Canada’s largest mission venture capital firm, at over $200m assets under management. Investing in Organics and Environmental & Climate Technology in Canada and the USA, Renewal Funds is GIIRS-rated, a founding Canadian B Corp (5x “Best for the World”), a “1% for the Planet” member, recognized as ImpactAssets “Top 50 impact fund managers.”

In this episode, we talk about what a conscious and inclusive leader is. Joel's early childhood and being diagnosed with a fatal disease and how that shaped the course of his life and purpose to really be a force for good in the world. We talk about the necessary intentionality, inquiry, and consciousness needed now, a year after the pandemic for individuals, businesses, shareholders and customers. Joel is the author of the clean money revolution, reinventing purpose, power, and capitalism.

Game On — Renewable Investing for the Soul of Humanity SEO Description:

How can we commit to renewable investing as individuals, businesses, shareholders, and customers? This is the topic of the Shine podcast this week with my friend Joel Solomon. Joel is a Co Founding Partner of Renewal Funds, Canada’s largest mission venture capital firm. In this episode, we talk about what a conscious and inclusive leader is. Joel's early childhood and being diagnosed with a fatal disease and how that shaped the course of his life and purpose to really be a force for good in the world. We talk about the necessary intentionality, inquiry, and consciousness needed now, a year after the pandemic for individuals, businesses, shareholders and customers. Joel is the author of the clean money revolution, reinventing purpose, power, and capitalism.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Conscious & Inclusive Leadership Retreat

Leading from Wholeness Executive Coaching

Leading from Wholeness Learning and Development Resources

Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World by Carley Hauck

Contact Carley Hauck

The Imperfect Shownotes

Carley Hauck 00:01

Hi, this is Carley Hauck and welcome to another great episode of the Shine podcast. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things — conscious and inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams, and awareness practices. These three things are more important than ever in this new remote hybrid version of work. And I will be facilitating three episodes a month. And before I tell you about our incredible topic today, I would love if you could go over to Apple podcasts, hit the subscribe button and write a positive review. If you love this episode, or if you've loved other episodes, it helps so much. Thank you.

Our topic for today is titled “Game On — Renewable Investing for the Soul of Humanity”. I am with my friend and colleague Joel Solomon. He is a co-founding partner of renewal funds Canada's largest mission venture capital firm, and over $200 million assets under management. They invest in organics and environmental and climate technology in Canada and the USA. Renewal Funds is a GIIRS-rated founding Canadian B Corp five times best for the world. It is also a 1% for the planet member recognized as impact assets top 50 impact fund managers. Some of the companies that Renewal Funds invest in are some of my favorite seventh generation before it exited and was acquired by Unilever; sweet Earth, their plant based sausages are amazing. I highly recommend and they were one of renewal funds companies as well before Nestle acquired them. And there's also goddess garden which happens to be an eco sustainable, friendly sunscreen that I use often especially in the summer months, and there are so many more.

Joel is also the author of The Clean Money Revolution: Reinventing Purpose, Power and Capitalism. In this episode, we talk about what a conscious and inclusive leader is. Joel's early childhood and being diagnosed with the fatal disease and how that shaped the course of his life and purpose to really be a force for good in the world. We talk about the necessary intentionality, inquiry and consciousness needed now, a year after the pandemic for businesses, individuals, shareholders and customers. We speak about what a just economy is and how to invest in a regenerative way. This episode is full of inspiration and gems. Thanks for tuning in.

03:17

Hello. I am here with my new friend Joel Solomon. Joel, thank you so much for being here. It's really a great pleasure. So one of the questions that I often ask folks that come on to the podcast, this is usually the first one is Joel, what does conscious and inclusive leadership mean to you?

Joel Solomon 03:42

It means caring. It means empathy and support for people. It means a standard of integrity and self examination. That's essential. Thus, lifelong learning. It means paying attention to the larger ecosystem that whatever leadership we're involved with. Everything is part of context. And it's important to go as far as we can about the immediate, but the history behind that, why the world is the way it is about certain topics. And what can serve the people that work on whatever the project is, and the end user or the people that are affected by that work. And to me that's part of holistic living. That's part of being a good human being and working to figure out our purpose. I think learning what values go along with that, what we do in difficult situations, and what our true integrity is, what do we care about? What are we willing to do to act with deep values and consistent commitment? And always thinking about the long term as well as the immediate.

Carley Hauck 05:33

Wonderful, thank you. You used some really great words there — curiosity, care, looking at the immediate, the long term, recognizing the impact that you're having, I heard purpose. And what is inherent in what you said, is, is being part of a system, you said, holistic, but really noticing how your part is impacting all the other parts is also what I heard. And I know that that's been a bigger part of your path is this integration of systems. And I know a little bit more of your early history. And I'm wondering if you might be willing to share more around your motivation, and your commitment to renewable funds to really, you know, focusing on a more regenerative way of social investing? Could you start with how that all came to be?

Joel Solomon 06:34

Well, I have to go back to the roots a bit of family life. I grew up in a small city in the South Chattanooga, Tennessee, in the 50s and 60s. Both sides of my family came from Eastern Europe, Russia, Jewish immigrants, on my mother's side, from the mid 19th century, and my father's in the early 20th century. And they, their families, came from people, and places where it was not safe and welcoming for them. And they were effectively either pushed or determined that it would be a smart idea to go somewhere else. So they had to leave behind their lineage history, and the villages and places that they lived in, to try to find a better life, the same story that is endemic to the idea of America. And that followed a history that we could talk about, but I'll just refer to as a time where people from far away came and took, took the natural resources and pushed aside the people that have lived and had lived with them for many centuries. And so it's a constant story around the planet of people being displaced, and finding a new home and then doing the very best that they can for their families, their children, and for their communities.

Human spirit is full of the desire to do better, make things better, make it safer when possible. And the people that I come from, also believed in citizenship and being involved in the issues of society and serving in roles that might matter. So, I'll save some of the story and just say that my parents ended up in Chattanooga, Tennessee. My mother was unique in being influenced by the late 50s, early 60s feminism. She had careers when few women did; she was one of the early recruiters on African American college campuses in the south under the Kennedy years. For the international agents, the Agency for International Development, which at the time under John Kennedy had a kind of glorious sense about it that we're going out to help the world. She was she always was a good participating citizen, and she in her late 30s found her real work which was as an artistic photographer and she ended up for the next 50 plus years moving around the world into unique situations of everyday people and sometimes in the more affluent class juxtapositioning the lives involved, and effectively, through art showing myself, my sister, and anyone who saw her her images, some some deep insights for the viewer to interpret about the state of humanity on the planet and how we treat each other and what the effects of that are. So she is in her 90s now, and her career is really blossoming. Her name is Rosalind Fox Solomon, there's a website under that name. And she has finally had much acclaim in her 80s and 90s, as an artist who has both documented but also expressed in an artistic way, the state of humanity, and how we interact with the world. So that's my mother, always engaged in society influenced by early feminism, and early career woman.

Carley Hauck 11:28

And I might just add, you know, with this rise in, I guess we could call it our awakening, so to speak, around systemic oppression, racial injustice. She was very much a pioneer already working in that space. And so I feel happy to hear that her work is getting the acknowledgement and acclaim that probably wasn't for many reasons of why this has gone on as long as it has and it we're still not over. There's a lot of work ahead. A lot of shifts and systems and structures that need to be hospice out, as Lynn twist would say.

Joel Solomon 12:10

Yeah, absolutely. And I was a beneficiary of seeing a model of someone who was fearless about articulating through her imagery, and challenging people's assumptions and complacency about the world, which continues to do it today. My father came, his family came later, my mother's family came from Eastern Europe in the first, in the middle of the 19th century. My father's family came in the early 20th century, and they were mostly Lithuania, Russia, Poland, and were basically burned out and ran out of their villages in their homes. And grandfather was put on a boat at age 13, to avoid the Russian army draft, which would drag all people like that into 20 years of service and such. And he got on a boat, and they got to Atlanta, where there were cousins. And their experience included, there was a bad incident with a Jewish kid that was accused of rape and lynched. And the Jewish community, they got quite scared about what was going on. And they had cousins in Chattanooga, which was a quieter, safer place. They moved to Chattanooga. That's how I got from Eastern Europe to Chattanooga, Tennessee, often known as the buckle of the Bible Belt. So it was an interesting culture to grow up in. Yeah, now it's a wonderful boutique city, like many have created in you know, in lots of places today, and it's, it's, it's done a good job of lifting itself up and coming into the modern times.

So they always believed in engaging with the issues of the day, and also with the political systems that day. And some of that would be memories from other times and other geographies where it had really been to great disadvantage to not have any involvement with how things get decided and who gets elected and things like that. So I grew up in a reasonably political family. My father was a shopping mall developer, they had been in the movie theater business and they had an opportunity to sell that and, and they went into building one of the first shopping malls in the South. And so I grew up around that business. And it didn't interest me. I I got influenced by the reality of what the interstate highway systems, freeway interchanges, the pave paradise put up a parking lot, and the cell commodified the same goods in every Hamlet in every town in the country, and that whole industry that evolved that moved us all into being exacerbated consumers. And I had issues with that.

And I'll skip some of the story now and just move to when I came of age, my father passed away, I inherited some money mostly was tied up in some real estate properties. But as I was able to figure out how to get cash out of it by borrowing against it, I decided that my work had to be returning to local and to neighborhood commerce and things like that. So that was the beginning of my entrepreneurship. And fortunately, it was a period in the late 70s and 80s, where the growth of the idea of impact investing and doing good through business and working on organic food companies and cleaner low toxicity kinds of businesses, and ones that you can more clearly identify with us helping people and doing less harm, and hopefully contributing to society, as opposed to the many things you can do that are simply about making money. Right.

And my mother, who challenged all of that status quo got me stuck with some moral and ethical thinking about what is an okay way to make money? And how would I want to live my life, being able to take care of my family and be involved in society, but do things that created less harm and did more good, and be dealing with entrepreneurs who cared about that. And so I was lucky enough to, to find my way into a couple of organizations in the 80s, that were early in these movements of better money, better business? How do you do maximum good in the world as possibly the legacy you care more about than How much money did you make? Now, providing for family and big and having access to resources and things is a natural instinct by human beings, people always want to put a roof over the kids and the family and have access to healthy food and a safe life. Those are human instincts that modern capitalism, and particularly the North American version has accelerated into a highly opaque and outsourced faraway, affecting lives that you never have to really face or deal with, or even know about unless you care, right?

And this ability to feel good about our own families and our own neighborhood or our community, and ignore the impact on the rest of the planet, and future generations. Just bothered me, obviously I had the right routes to question and go that direction. I live to the 60s and all the questioning that came there. But fortunately for me, I believe I am not one of those 60s people that decided to let it all go and buy fancy cars and you know, just go with the flow. And I had to direct myself to organizations, relationships, opportunities, people that I could be inspired by, and that I could believe them. And that I can be part of because of the values, morals, ethics, underneath it imperfect, sloppy, make mistakes, all of it. There's no pitching perfection here.

But we do have choices about what to focus on, what to prioritize, what to devote ourselves to, and how to live our lives. And I refuse to believe that I had to become an evil nasty person in order to find success and satisfaction. And that part of that was to say, okay, it seems like society is building an ethic she or he with the most is the winner. And what I saw was those with the most, in many ways, had deeply challenging circumstances either spoken and noticed or unspoken and not noticed. And that the world with the the era of information and access to knowing what's going on in many, many places, how things are made, where they came from, who's affected by that, that these are not only important, ethical and moral principles that are legitimately, perhaps some of the most important ones. Most religions have a version of Do unto others as you have them do unto you, and similar golden rules, so to speak. But they're kind of ignored outside the place of worship or certain situations.

20:58

And so what became clear through that period of coming of age and trying to figure out life, was that we could do things differently, that it's a matter of choice, for those of us who have access to choice. In other words, those of us that are already beneficiaries of I’ll say non-judgmental, here, just say, of the effects of capitalism, I believe have a higher bar, to hold ourselves to, to be sure that our actions, our choices, our relationships, our our behavior, is where we, that's where Heaven is. That's where Heaven and Hell choices get to be made in a very pragmatic way. I was diagnosed with a family disease that my father's side carry, which is a genetic kidney disease called polycystic kidney. And early on, I was told you could die soon, you could live long, and there's nothing you can do about it. And that diagnosis was one of the greatest things that ever happened to me. Because it caused me to inventory my life and assess and think about, what am I doing that's actually generative, and working on to the highest purpose and the things that I care about the most, as opposed to just blindly wanting to win or accumulate.

And there's a question that I encourage all ambitious people to do, but also inheritors, and spouses and, and owners of excess wealth, that we need to think about the fact that there are people and places at the other side of our investments, our purchases, and many of our choices. And that to accept a version of society where we don't have to think about it is wrong. I do my best not to be judgmental of others, they've got to figure out what works for them. But I got very excited, between the kidney disease, which caused me to think about what the kidney does, which is to filter the blood, it caused me to start reading labels and seeing what it was putting into my body. It caused me to think about where is this coming from and child slavery for chocolate, like stripping away?

Coal, you know, it's tearing apart the countryside to fuel things that could be done in a better way. But it's not but it's cheaper to do that these kinds of things. So I went through a period of 6070s and 80s, getting exposed to the business. The business thinking of the, I guess, the reformist business thinking about our impact is actually a responsibility. And we are affecting other people all the time with our choices. You and I have it tough, when we're talking through a computer to hear the story behind the computer and where those rare metals come from and how they're made and what kind of factories so you can go deep into this.

Soon enough one needs to start to find a place within the systems that we can harmonize our deepest values, our purpose and what we can care about and who we are, and who we're going to be on our deathbeds. Because I was diagnosed with the fatal disease, the deathbed became a symbol for me, that's when it's going to matter the most. I hope I'm going to have a good time in life, I'm going to get to hang out with people I respect and trust, we're going to be creative, we're going to do exciting and, and awesome things. But I have to also think about who's left out of that. What my choices are doing to affect those lives? And what can I do as a citizen, as a business person, as a moral person, as someone who cares deeply about society around me? How do I make choices that do less harm and more good, and keep going deeper? Because there's, they're not simple answers to that.

25:58

And now, as we reckon with colonization, genocide, moving people off their land, stealing resources, all the horrible things in Canada, right now we're dealing with the residential schools and system and a pretty big way where Native children were stripped from their families and put in church run, schools. And there, there's a situation right now, where hundreds of unnamed bodies have been found one of these residential schools in Canada. And there was a systematic attempt to destroy the people who lived here. So what do we do as a moral spiritual person, and I'll simplify without going on too long about this. We do what we can. And we make commitments, to challenge ourselves, push ourselves ever to know more and understand how these systems are working. And sure, take a break and do something fun and nice, and have a good time also. But remember, that when you hand your money over to someone, the bank, the insurance agent, the wealth manager, really anything you buy, to Walmart to whoever it is. These are choices that are affecting people all over the planet. And it is not right. For us to just put blinders on about pay.

Carley Hauck 27:31

Right? Thank you, that was a great answer. The roots all the way into fruition, into the blossoming of of the impact you've chosen to make. And what I keep hearing you say is choice. You know, and and we do have a choice. And that's the difference between being conscious and being unconscious, is recognizing that in this moment, every moment is a choice. And, you know, we talked a little bit about this before we started the recording. But for those folks that have gotten to know me through listening to the podcast, they know that I wrote a book and you have a book that came out a few years before mine, but my book has been out now for four months and the impetus for that. And I would say that probably been the motivation for your book, they were probably along the same length, same lines, was really to shift hearts and minds, to wake up to this different reality that that we have. And I've always seen my influence and my privilege has been able to really work on the inside of business, and utilize supporting leaders and business to be that lever to be a force for good to align with social justice, environmental responsibility. And there are a lot of companies doing that.

But when I think about the larger monopolies that really did well, and the pandemic, Amazon, you know, some of these huge grocery stores, the local businesses, the small business owners or owners had to had to quit, you know, even with loans and whatnot. What is the responsibility of those companies that really profited during this time? What is their responsibility to social justice to environmental responsibility? Could they orient more as a B Corp versus this, you know, this larger monopoly of a company and so I feel really curious to get your perspective. It's ironic or not ironic that the day that we're recording this, it is 100 degrees where you are Cortez Island, it is 100 Six here in Oregon where I am, these are record high heats, it's never been this hot ever. And my sense is this is not over. This could become the new norm, we know that our house is literally burning down, we have a short period of time in which we can actually create the systems and structures in business, as shareholders as customers to prevent major suffering. And so I know I'm asking you a big question. But as we're beginning to open the world back up, how can we put a deeper call to action for businesses to be a force for good for shareholders to recognize the enormous power responsibility that they have to orient in a way that is going to benefit all beings and benefit the planet? And how can we as customers, say no to certain companies or products, and say, You know what, I will not buy that if it's not coming from a compostable container, I'm just not willing to buy it anymore. And that's our choice, right? That's our choice, right.

Joel Solomon 31:28

And we have to start at that consumer level where we can affect each purchase that we make, where we buy insurance, where we bank all of it, what we do with our homes, how much waste do we create, all many, many things we can do as individuals. And I care a lot about that. And I'm in the business of investing in, in some companies that are connected to helping that. And with any company that we invest in, we want them to come and be core, we want them to be attentive to their waste stream to how they treat people, knowing where their products come from, and what the conditions are, where things are made in other places, or anywhere. So there's that.

However, I do not think that the consumer and general population is truly who has the whole risk. It's not who has the whole responsibility. There are very, very sophisticated businesses, financial institutions, basically, the peak of capitalism, and probably other economic systems, where control over major amounts of resources and people's lives effectively, are decided by the choices that are made there. So we must, on a consumer and citizenship level, be sure that we pay attention. When we choose a bank, when we go to a wealth manager for our retirement funds. When we do anything financial, we should know what those professionals are going to do with our money. And we should learn about what can be done to express our points of view. And to influence the makers, the purveyors and those large corporations that that help us have the wonderful parts of life where we can drive up to home, you know, all kinds of stores and walk in and buy some stuff and use a piece of plastic and go home with it and, and our house price goes up if we own a house while we're while we're at it. And we're beneficiaries of an incredibly sophisticated economic system that's been created, that benefits the few lavishly benefits some more in a solid enough way to have a state bought in and then leaves out close to 50% of the population.

If we're talking about North America, the average savings of households of different race and ethnic backgrounds is dramatic. Some people have access, most people have less access. So there's a lot of issues there that we've just spoken about. One is do not ignore politics. It's at our peril. If we do that in history shows us that over and over again, be an informed citizen, pay attention, get involved, care. When we buy things, there are apps being created. There are resources now there are rankings of companies and judging of their supply chains and are they using basically slave labor. You know, the chocolate industry is full of child slavery. Like who's not eating chocolate? And are we doing anything to raise these issues. So we have a responsibility as citizens, I can't possibly list all the ways, but it's very important to take that responsibility and take responsibility for our local communities and how things are done, but also be involved at the macro scale to the degree that we can. So that's important.

Carley Hauck 35:30

Can I pause just for a moment I have, this is going to go out shortly. And this is in the midst of summer. And this is a different summer, because it's the summer where our country and our world is more open. And I'd love to even give a few calls to action for folks that are traveling more this summer. You know, they're thinking, Oh, I can get on a plane now. And I can, I can do what I used to do. But I'd love to invite more regenerative way of travel and even as we're going from one place to another, and I'll just use my own example, I am in Oregon for two months. I've sublet my house in North Carolina, whenever I travel, I bring you know, reusable tableware with me, I veto the plastic bottle of water that is given, I bring my own container. I'm not just going for a weekend road trip, I'm here for two months, I'm going to see how do I give back to the community that I'm in I've been going to the farmers market, I'm bringing my own bag to the grocery store, I am not accumulating loads of freakin plastic. These are my ethics.

And I still have to accumulate a certain level of plastic, I still have to drive, unfortunately, a gas guzzling car, there are certain structures and systems that are in place, that really infuriate me at times, because I would really love if we were all not emitting, you know, what about carbon from from the cars that we're driving, we're not all electric yet. We don't all have solar panels on our house. But I hope that that is going to be the new norm, because solar is so cheap. So I think what I'm really wanting to invite, as we are, you know, venturing out this summer, is to really be mindful of, again, how we're vacationing, how we're traveling, what's the long view. And we're also going to have record heat all across the world this summer. You know, it's been forecasted from the west coast to the east coast. So we can't pretend that climate change is not real. And every action, everything that we're buying, all these choices impact, how much suffering we're going to have going forward. Just want to name that, because that's right here. Yeah.

Joel Solomon 38:05

And there are several large institutions or segments of society that carry a lot of the authority and influence over how all these things get made, and how we use the resources of the planet and of people. And sort of the business community is one of those. We should have much stricter rules and regulations about what it's okay to do in local communities due to natural environments. What we do, too, with the, with our financial resources in these companies, and how we use them, and then are they causing more damage, how we treat our workers as a whole basket of things to do with business.

Then there's the political sector government, and there's an elected part and there's an appointed part, and there are multiple levels of it. And we have been systematically hoodwinked to be less involved, and to write it off, and dismiss it and just be cynical about it, rather than decide to run for office, decide to support people that you actually have looked into and you believe that they matter. And we need to push for the regulations of the commons. And the watching out for fairness of how workers are treated. Of how wealth is distributed is their fair taxation. We've read this has been a year of unveiling a lot about the billionaires and how little taxes they're paying. We have models like McKenzie Bezos, Jeff Bezos, ex wife who's writing checks right now in a you know way and at a scale That is unprecedented 10s of millions of dollars to all kinds of progressive organizations across the landscape, particularly racial, racial justice involved once. And there are more and more examples of people breaking out of the systems that just continue to feed this kind of machinery. So business politics, who govern the comments, and then also the, I guess this is part of the business side, but the financial sectors that set a lot of the precedents and the culture and customs as of what we're supposed to believe. And most of all, they benefit by convincing us that we need infinite amounts of money. So why should participants write more stuff? Yeah.

Carley Hauck 41:00

And that's, that's feeding the hungry ghost. So that's, that's the self lack versus the self worth, right, that we really need to be worth cultivating.

Joel Solomon 41:10

Yeah. And we have, you and I are speaking at a moment in American history, where the level of discourse and leadership and the conversations that are happening in the political landscape, I'm you could be no secret that I'm a progressive democrat. From just how I'm talking, but to see the manipulation, the viciousness, the brutality, that is becoming normalized, about citizenship, and rallying together as nations or states or communities. And this is, this is deeply troubling. And it makes me want to go back and look at civics class and, and what's being taught in elementary schools and things and the debasing of public service that's underway, but by interests who benefit from that. So they're there.

A lot of people don't want to get involved in politics, or they believe it's too messy, or, or they don't trust it, and all these kinds of reasons. But that's what citizenship is about: how do we contribute to the geographies and the jurisdictions that we live in and are part of that we have an opportunity to do so we are putting it at risk by not using it. And one of the most disappointing things in life today is how denigrating the point of view about political service and, and running for office and offering yourself to this very challenging leadership role. And so I think it's important for us to find a more civil point of view, and understand the systems and how important they actually are to the balance, stability, and well being of the people and places and things we most care about.

Carley Hauck 43:20

Hmm, thank you. Well, I'm, I'm imagining that there might be folks that are listening to this, and we're talking in some ways, very broad strokes, we're talking about, you know, the political piece, the being really mindful of how we are buying as consumers. And then we're also talking about how do we really inspire and hold businesses accountable. And those are, you know, there's, there's a lot right there, it might feel overwhelming, and some ways for folks, what I'm imagining for folks that are listening, because we've named a lot of really, you know, big things here as far as what needs to shift and change.

We've talked about really noticing the choice that we're making with what we're buying and the impact that's having the companies we're investing in and, you know, are they invested again, in in social justice and environmental responsibility? Or are they is their product actually subscribing to human trafficking or childhood slavery? We need to be mindful of that because there is a ripple effect. And then we're also talking about how we get active politically and what I would say is that we all have a special and unique light to shine. And there is one piece of that that we can own, that we can say, this really matters to me, and I'm going to put my energy and effort towards this. That's usually what I like to encourage is, you know, start small so that it doesn't feel overwhelming. And I feel curious if you have any other guidance there.

Joel Solomon 45:02

Be curious and ask questions and do your best to understand the systems that you are, that we are participating in. An example is banking, almost everyone here is hearing this is probably using a bank, you may very well have insurance of one kind or another. You choose what retail store to go to what kind of products to consume, there's just there are many, many choices, we could say micro choices and macro choices about how we influence and choose to participate in what are often opaque systems that we don't really take the time to find out what's behind the beautiful advertising, or the shiny new car, cell phone, etc. So the more that we are willing, and insist upon being good consumers of products and services, that many of which we need to care for families, have a home, have a job, offer all kinds of things. But we do have the choice. And there are entrepreneurs, and nonprofits that are building out systems to help us look into the companies, the banks, etc, that we're involved with. So there are rankings and there's lots of information that can help us then when we go into a bank.

Carley Hauck 46:40

Do you happen to have any like website or link that you might just share for folks that maybe have never looked into that. Is there one that you can point to,

Joel Solomon 46:45

Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to pull that out quickly enough effectively enough. I would say that if you search about what my bank is involved in what's happening with my money at Wells Fargo, or that that'll bring you lots of information. And there are organizations now and stay on, you know, they went I'll just

Carley Hauck 47:20

I'll just make a plug. So Bank of the West was a company that I supported in a very large way for three and a half years doing organizational and leadership development consulting. And about a year ago, they started the first ATM card that gives 1% to the planet. So Bank of the West is a subsidiary of the NP, which is a very large French bank. And so they are very steeped in corporate social responsibility. And if you're on the west coast, you might check them out.

Joel Solomon 47:55

That's beautiful. There are more and more corporate players like that. And they're doing it probably because someone in leadership positions actually cares. But they're also doing it because there's a more and more sophisticated consumer who is insisting upon it. And I was going to make the point that when you put money in a bank, it doesn't just sit in a sack down in the basement in a vault. That money goes all over the world as the bank goes and invests it so they can make money on your money. And one thing that's important to do is just learn at least the surface level about these businesses and how they make their choices and how they can be affected. That's a whole other podcast. Yeah, but it's important. There are rating services now. And that information is getting more and more crucial.

So when you look at oil pipelines, and coal mining and destruction of nature in one way or another for some kind of natural resource, there are now nonprofits, and people who spend their lives on things like I have a good friend in Vancouver, who built an organization that tracks everything to do with paper on the planet, basically. And what does the book publishing industry use for its paper? And what do companies use for their billing and how many catalogs a day does Victoria's Secret make it out of old growth northern boreal forests in Canada to send out millions of catalogs every day, and things like that. There are a lot of these activities that transparency, information age, maybe citizen groups are bringing forth. So that's accountability.

I have to know something about the bank. I'm going to use I need to know something about the corporate practices of the companies that I shopped with. I insist upon understanding if I put money into a wealth management or retirement fund or things like that, that it will be doing things that I'm proud of, or that I can at least accept. And they're not doing things with my money that would make me ill and feel embarrassed about it. And so this is a trend and a reality that's going to get easier and easier for us as consumers, because the Information Age is bringing more transparency. It doesn't take that much work to dig into some of these questions and find rankings of the best and the worst. And that's part of a just economy.

51:01

I would, okay, okay, well, a just economy goes a step further than has to do with past egregious behaviors and how we might correct and make compensation, even legislatively and let people have access to and things that help us. You know, repent for our sins, and in a way that we didn't even know we were making, because it was outsourced to some company, or a bank, or others. So this is something that any conscious person now I believe, wants to know more about.

Carley Hauck 51:43

Well, Joel, thank you. I feel like we could talk for a really long time about all of these structures and systems. And I just wanted to ask you one more question before we end. What is giving you hope right now?

Joel Solomon 52:03

I think hope is partially a choice. For some people, conditions are so tough that it's more challenging. But for so many of us, hope can be a choice and is a choice. And hope is not just a sweet emotion. It is about our actions. It's about how our behaviors, and our choices, and our citizenship, represent who we are in our deepest assessment of ourselves. And always thinking about the future moment when we are on our deathbed, and we're reviewing our lives. And considering the choices that we made through our lifetimes, and and do our best to convey what actually mattered.

What was maybe a poor choice that we want to share with our grandchildren. And how can we be the very best models we can for future generations, because we are the ancestors of what's coming? Right? We have a lot of responsibility to pass on insight, good values, responsibility, citizenship, and care for the people and places around us. Humanity is creating some very severe challenges. And I know that most all of us care about future generations, at least our own, but hopefully for humanity's and that there is a just safe, clean planet for those future generations to enjoy, and take to the next level from what we were able to do during our time.

Carley Hauck 54:01

Thank you, Joel. You're welcome. Is there anything else you'd like to say or a way people can find you to stay in touch?

Joel Solomon 54:18

So the book The Clean Money Revolution, Reinventing Power, Purpose, and Capitalism, you can find through your local bookstores and purveyors, there is a website, Joel, Solomon, s o l o m o n.org. that has some information background and further resources about that. I'm available on LinkedIn to connect and share a fair amount there. And I'll just leave it at that there. There are many interests and involvements, you'll find a fair amount about them. If you just look at Two resources or three resources that I've mentioned. And I like to hear from people. I welcome critique and feedback.

Carley Hauck 55:12

Thank you. Again, thank you for the incredible light that you are shining and have been shining and how you are being in service. It's been really delightful to have this conversation and I hope that we continue to support each other and inspire others, to weave a more, you know, a beautiful world that we have not yet seen. You are a beautiful person. Joe, thank you so much for being in service, and the way that you are. Your life is truly a gift to so many. And I feel grateful we were able to have this conversation, and that you are now in my community.

We need transformational change at all levels, the individual community, business institutions and governments. We must redefine our way of life and consumption. And that is our responsibility and our opportunity right now. If this talk inspired you to be the change in your own unique way, and I can support you in that through coaching or free consultation, please reach out to me at support at Carley. Hauck comm if you have an idea, or a topic for the podcast that you would love for me to talk about. I also welcome hearing from you. Thank you for tuning in being part of the shine community and until we meet again be the light and shine the light

Psychological safety in the workplace has been getting a lot of traction in the midst of the pandemic. Do you feel like you can bring your whole self to your team and work? Many people cover or feel like they have to portray only certain parts of themselves with their team or at work, but in the face of remote and hybrid work environments, psychological safety is becoming more important than ever before.

Psychological safety is the belief that one can speak up without the risk of punishment or humiliation. It is the ideal that we should all be striving for, but what will it take to make psychological safety happen in the new future of remote and hybrid work? Psychological safety is the number one thing that all leaders, all businesses, all organizations need, especially in this future of work. Join me as I explore the critical importance of creating physiological safety as we face the future, the inner game skills that we need to cultivate, and the simple words that we can all use to increase psychological safety in the workplace and in the world. If we can create psychological safety at work just imagine what we can build in our world together.

How to Create Psychological Safety in the Workplace SEO Description:

Psychological safety in the workplace is the belief that one can speak up without the risk of punishment or humiliation. It is the ideal that we should all be striving for, but what will it take to make psychological safety happen in the new future of remote and hybrid work? Psychological safety is the number one thing that all leaders, all businesses, all organizations need, especially in this future of work. Join me as I explore the critical importance of creating physiological safety as we face the future, the inner game skills that we need to cultivate, and the simple words that we can all use to increase psychological safety in the workplace and in the world. If we can create psychological safety at work just imagine what we can build in our world together.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

What Psychological Safety Looks Like in a Hybrid Workplace from Harvard Business Review

Conscious & Inclusive Leadership Retreat

“How Leaders Build Trust at Work Through Authenticity” from Mindful.org

Leading from Wholeness Executive Coaching

Leading from Wholeness Learning and Development Resources

Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World by Carley Hauck

Contact Carley Hauck

The Imperfect Shownotes

Carley Hauck 00:01

Hi, my name is Carley Hauck and I am the host of the shine podcast. Welcome to season four. This podcast came about over two years ago, as part of the research I was conducting for my new book shine ignite your inner game to lead consciously at work in the world. Shine debuted four months ago, and is getting wonderful acclaim and acknowledgement.

This podcast is about three things: conscious and inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams and awareness practices. I will be facilitating three episodes a month. Today's episode is about the important topic of creating psychological safety. In the midst of the new future of remote and hybrid work.

Imagine that your monthly one on one is happening with your supervisor. And he, she or they say to you, I really appreciate how you've shown up at work and with the team in the last year. I imagine it wasn't an easy time for you.

It wasn't easy for any of us.

I am wondering if we can create a new foundation today?

What might I say? Or do that would create a greater sense of helpfulness or would support you to feel like you could be really open in our conversations. I want you to know that I have your back. And that this is a safe space for you.

How do you feel hearing this? Open suspicion, appreciation, relaxation. Just allow yourself to notice: what do you feel the sensations in your body? What is the emotion present? Hearing this? Whatever arises is welcome. What if the next statement out of your supervisor's mouth was this?

I've been reading a lot about the importance of psychological safety. And I would like to invest more in this concept in our team and in my interactions with you. Notice how that impacts you. What is psychological safety, maybe it's a term you've never heard. I believe it is the number one thing that all leadership teams, all businesses, all organizations need, especially in this future of work.

03:55

Psychological safety is the belief that one can speak up without risk of punishment or humiliation. It has been well established as a critical driver of high quality decision making, healthy group dynamics and interpersonal relationships, greater innovation, and more effective execution in organizations. Essentially, to be successful on a team and as a team. psychological safety is the enabler. This insight is the result of almost 30 years of research by Dr. Amy Edmondson. This was supported and reinforced by an extensive two year research program called Project Aristotle where 15,000 employees at Google were assessed to see what was the number one trait that was supporting high performance and innovation. And it came down to psychological safety.

In the last year, every organization around the world has gone through a reorganization. We are still going through it as each company is reevaluating their business model, their values, their mission, what are the products and services that make sense to market build and produce now these are the conversations that we've been having and will continue to have If you don't have trust, you won't have loyalty from your team members, your stakeholders or your customers. Marc Benioff, the CEO of the technology company, Salesforce, and one of the conscious and inclusive leaders that I highlight in my book, SHINE has been quoted as saying, you'd better decide now that trust is your highest value. Because in this new world, when everything is changing, people want to know they can trust you. So, if we don't have psychological safety, we don't have trust. And that often leads to dangerous silence.

People that are aware of the risks of a situation but they don't dare to speak up for fear of being called out or punished for it. We've seen this happen, or avoidable failure. This means people are more focused on avoiding failure and getting the most out of work. People also will tend to make more mistakes that could have been avoided if psychological safety levels were higher. When we think about the skills necessary to manage in this new remote hybrid work environment, it is more important than ever, that we have cultivated these skills that support collaboration, decision making and innovation, the people skills, the real skills are what I like to refer in my body of work and in my book, the inner game.

06:50

New research from David J. Deming at Harvard's Weiner Center for Social Policy, examines lifetime earning patterns and shows how the peak earning years have shifted dramatically up the age continuum. Over the past five decades, this study has been getting some buzz in the last few weeks. This trend has been driven by changes in the mix of skills required in the workforce, away from routine tasks and toward non-cognitive domains like critical reasoning, and decision making. Again, the inner game skills. I have been specializing in organizational and leadership development consulting coaching, and I also teach on leadership topics as an instructor at Stanford and UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business. And what I found in these last 10 years of working with lots of organizations, LinkedIn, Pixar, Clif Bars, and then tech, Asana, and also with leaders, and emerging leaders at these two academic organizations, is that when these folks possess a strong inner game, they're really able to align with what really matters, and where they can actually support the sustainability of psychological safety in their teams and then the culture. And so these inner game skills are self awareness, emotional intelligence, which comprises of self management and empathy, and social awareness and relationship mastery. Another inner game skill is resilience, we can think of that as having a growth mindset.

Love releasing from love, not from fear, well being, and authenticity. Again, these inner game skills, I see are necessary to be able to have these brave exchanges to create psychological safety, and our one on ones, our teams, our senior leadership, and our greater culture at work.

And since the workplace is a microcosm for the greater world, if we can create inclusion, belonging, psychological safety, and collaboration at work, just imagine what we can build in our world together.

09:50

So I want to give you an example of a senior leader that I have been coaching since the beginning of the pandemic. And he utilized this strong inner game to create more psychological safety and trust in his team. Let's call this leader Scott. First I want to highlight that this leader already has High self awareness, a growth mindset.

He showcases humility, empathy, compassion, he has high performance and his motivation for his work, his company, and his role is something that's intrinsic to him. I feel honored to have been able to serve this leader and to watch his growth. And one of the things that we've really been working on together is his discomfort with conflict.

So we decided that it would be important to assess the psychological safety in his team. Based on what I've already seen this leader express in our coaching sessions, for example, his commitment to his own learning, growth and development, his willingness to be humble, take personal responsibility to be coached. He is the exception, I would say not the rule in my professional experience. But this kind of leadership can be inspired and can be nurtured. And I had the suspicion that when we did the psychological safety assessment with his team, that it would be high.

So this is what I did. I conducted a psychological safety scan with this leader in his for direct senior reports earlier in the year. The psychological safety scan is an anonymous survey. It has been validated by Dr. Amy and Manson's work on the subject, I spoke to her earlier. And she is a woman that I deeply respect, and think of as a mentor to me. And actually, I feel very delighted that a few months ago, she endorsed my book and body of work. The survey and the scan is one of the very first things that I do with organizations when I'm brought in to assess or build out an inclusive leadership or Management Development Program, to engage in a change management strategy to support team building to get a sense of what's happening in the culture. And this scan is basically measuring four different dimensions of psychological safety. And as I shared before, I had a sense that this score would overall be high in psychological safety, but I forecasted that the team would probably score low in one quadrant. And that actually ended up being true. The area that needed the most improvement was the team's comfort with failure. So what do I mean by that? Can each member of the team willingly showcase and share mistakes with one another. Based on some of the culture pieces that were present in the company, they didn't feel comfortable to make mistakes and to share them openly in the setting of the team.

13:20

But based on talking openly about their scores, and creating a social contract for psychological safety, they were able to talk about why. And we could make a game plan for how they might grow this part of their team. Just the process of talking openly about their discomfort with sharing mistakes as a team, increase the psychological safety and the comfort level. As a follow up to this team debrief on psychological safety, I encourage the team and Scott, the senior leader, to have a failure party. This would encourage an environment where mistakes are seen as normal, where folks can learn and grow from them, and then innovate and collaborate better. So a few months back, Scott put in their team meeting agenda that they would create a failure party. And he set this up first by creating a social contract for psychological safety, which I had coached him how to do. And we had set at the first debrief where we all met as a team and I facilitated that session. And then how he created the context for the failure party was he went first, he shared a mistake that he'd made earlier in the week, what he learned from the mistake, how he course corrected and even how he asked for support to navigate the next steps. He then asked other members of the team to share as well.

15:05

One of the best ways that you can increase psychological safety with your direct reports, or with your team is to be willing to be vulnerable to go first. So as a result of Scott, going first in the team, one of the team members shared that they've had this ongoing challenge with self management and reactivity with one of their direct reports. They're actually working with a coach around it. And they were able to express openly with the team, but they made a mistake earlier in the week, and they lost their cool, and they were able to check it in the moment, come back, course correct, you know, put in an apology, take some personal responsibility, and being able to share this openly in the group to be witnessed in it. And then to note that this is something they're working on, they're growing, they were able to get positive reinforcement, so that it didn't have to be a place of shame, but a place for healing and transformation.

In my professional experience, many successful executives encounter serious negative feedback for the first time in their careers, when they take on larger roles or responsibilities, like the example above of this particular manager in being able to shift emotional reactivity. That often is feedback given to leaders that often centers on style rather than skills or expertise. So if that leader isn't able to have a growth mindset, it can feel like a threat to their identity. But if they take on a learning mindset, they can grow.

17:10

We can imagine that in the last year, we've all had more challenges than normal, because of the pandemic. We are sorting through a lot of systems and structures that are being reinvented, that are taking into account the unveiling of racial injustice, systemic oppression, more emphasis on business models that are in alignment with regeneration, with sustainable development goals, and even the added pressures of mental health, needing to care for the elderly and for children. We are navigating a lot. And while we were always bringing our whole selves to work, we have literally been in each other's living rooms in the past year. So there has been more that has come to the light, like young children bursting into a meeting, divorce, struggles with healthcare. And this burden has been on managers and leaders to hold to navigate hearing about all of these work life situations. And this isn't going away with remote hybrid work. So there is a real need for managers, for leaders to support psychological safety in this new foundation of remote and hybrid work, so that each individual's needs, preferences and or limitations are taken into account and they feel safe to speak up. And once the leader is able to showcase that it is safe, there can be accountability and empowerment for each member of the team, and even the culture to uphold it so that everyone can feel they can bring their whole and best self to work and thus feel like they belong.

19:15

Psychological safety is needed today to enable productive conversations in new, challenging and even potentially fraught territory. By viewing ourselves as works in progress, and supporting a learning culture. We can really reconcile our yearning for authenticity and how we work and lead with an equally powerful desire to grow. The place we want to be has high psychological safety and accountability. If this podcast was meaningful to you, and you are wanting to bring a foundation of psychological safety with your one-on-ones, your team or your culture, this subject is something I feel really passionate about. And this is one of the first things that I do with any of my coaches, with any team building, our larger inclusive manager development program, organizational change management, that I am asked to come in and conduct. If psychological safety is low, in my experience, there will be a large challenge in the long term success for anything that I can possibly bring into the company. But if we are able to create a foundation of psychological safety, then the sky's the limit.

If you'd like to work with me to create psychological safety, there are three ways. First, you can book a free consultation with me, the link will be in the show notes. And you can provide me with more information on what you're needing, why this might be important. And I can talk you through the steps of how I might be able to do that with your supervisor, your team, or your culture. The second way you could work with me is you could bring me in for a training session on psychological safety. And in this session, I'll customize it to your particular needs and culture. But I'll be able to assess and show you how to create and sustain psychological safety and trust as individuals in your senior leadership team and within your greater culture.

The body of work that I've been facilitating as an organizational and leadership development consultant, and as an adjunct instructor at Stanford, and UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business is on creating a strong inner game. And again, these essential skills are necessary to really support a sustainable culture of psychological safety and trust. And number three, if you are seeking someone to support you in a more full time capacity on this topic, please reach out. I would love to book a free consultation with you on how I can support you in this new future of work.

22:26

I want to leave you with just a few thoughts on psychological safety as a way to really bring this home. There are societal factors that favor silence over voice, self protection over self expression. Self protection remains a contracted and fear based stance, which doesn't support one to lean into their purpose and courage. It's protecting against the thought, what is the worst thing that could happen, versus what is the best thing that could happen? It's playing safe. But in playing safe, we miss opportunities to grow for fulfilment and contributing skillfully to something wonderful in the world. When people feel praised and encouraged for their efforts to speak up, that increase the psychological safety. The simple words of thank you for speaking up

does wonders.

Lastly, psychological safety is fragile, and it needs constant nurturance and renewal. I have a wonderful article that I wrote with Mindful magazine earlier in the year which focuses on the inner game of authenticity, and thus the outer game of building trust. I will leave it for you on the show notes. And now, I have a special invitation for you. Over Labor Day weekend, I will be offering and facilitating a conscious and inclusive leadership retreat with my good friend and colleague Brian McCormick. We are taking applications now and it will be at a beautiful retreat center in Black Mountain North Carolina, which is on very special and healing land and a creek that runs through the whole property. There will be time for renewal, learning community, healthy food, nourishment, and play. I would be delighted to have you come. We will also have time to explore the concept and practice of creating psychological safety in this setting in this deeper dive. I feel so excited about being able to bring people together after this long year and hope. Holding space for transformation. Before I began writing my book, I was leading conscious leadership retreats for women at this beautiful eco lodge in Mexico once a year. And when I started writing the book, I pushed pause on the retreats, but I knew that once shine was out, I would start hosting retreats again. It is undeniably one of the most favorite things that I get to do with my work bringing people together for immersive experiences, for transformation, healing for growth. And I would be delighted to have you join us and you'll see a link for the retreat in the show notes. If you have any questions or comments, please email me at support at Carley. Hauck dot com. I'd love to hear from you. Finally, thank you for tuning in and being part of this community. I have many more wonderful podcast episodes for you. So until we meet again, be the light and shine the light

Are you a leader who is dealing with harmful and unconscious leaders in your organization? Or are you reporting to one of these leaders and suffering the negative consequences interpersonally and then seeing those ripple effects in your team and greater culture?

You are not alone.

I hear and work with these types of leadership and culture challenges all the time.

In this insightful episode, I will share with you some practical tips on how to coach unconscious leadership and transform this behavior to create a workplace and world that works for everyone. Join me as I clarify the differences between conscious and unconscious leadership, explain how to cultivate the inner game skills needed to become a conscious and inclusive leader, create psychological safety at work, and dive into the tactics that can help begin the shift away from the unacceptable behavior of leaders.

How to coach a toxic leader? SEO Description: Are you a leader who is dealing with unconscious leadership in your organization? Or are you reporting to a toxic leader and suffering the negative consequences interpersonally and then seeing those ripple effects in your team and greater culture? You are not alone. In this insightful episode, I will share with you some practical tips on how to coach and transform this behavior by instilling psychological safety at work. If you want to create a workplace and world that works for everyone this episode is for you!

Resources mentioned in this episode:

“Nine Tips for Being a Male Ally at Work” from Greater Good magazine

Leading from Wholeness Executive Coaching

Leading from Wholeness Learning and Development Resources

Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World by Carley Hauck

What Psychological Safety Looks Like in a Hybrid Workplace from Harvard Business Review

Contact Carley Hauck

The Imperfect Shownotes

Carley Hauck 0:09

Hi, this is Carley Hauck and welcome to another episode of the shine podcast. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, conscious and inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams and awareness practices. I will be doing three episodes a month, a blend of solo episodes with me on a really important topic, and interviewing a conscious and inclusive leader. Before I tell you about our topic today, if you can go over to Apple podcasts, hit the subscribe button and write a positive review. It helps so much. Thank you.

Our topic for today is how to coach and unconscious and harmful leader. Are you a leader? Who is dealing with unconscious and harmful leaders in your organization? Or are you reporting to one of these leaders and suffering the negative consequences interpersonally. And or then seeing those ripple effects in your team and greater culture, you are not alone. I hear and work with these types of leadership and culture challenges all the time. And I would like to share with you some tips on how to coach this behavior.

First, let's talk about the distinction between conscious and unconscious leadership. Senior executives and different levels of leadership have the power to create an environment that allows people to grow and bring their whole and best selves to the workplace. Or they can create a command and control atmosphere that breeds fear, silence and then happiness. In my experience, how leaders end up using that power depends in part on their mental health and their commitment to doing the inner work. In the last decade, I have served 1000s of folks, senior leaders, CEOs, middle managers, HR business partners, and individual contributors companies such as LinkedIn, Pixar, Clif Bar Genentech, Bank of the West, and many high growth startups. I've often been invited to support the reorganization of businesses, unhealthy cultures, or to work with senior leaders and teams to create more effective collaboration, communication and teamwork.

02:55

And these many experiences in the last decade, I have found that a conscious and inclusive leader possesses certain inner game skills. These skills and leadership capacities are self awareness, emotional intelligence, empathy, a growth mindset. They lead from love and compassion, not fear, most of the time. They're willing to be vulnerable and authentic. And they prioritize self care and healthy boundaries. I speak and write up these inner game qualities at length in my new book SHINE, ignite your inner game to lead consciously at work in the world. But it's also been the body of work that I've really been specializing in with all these various companies and leaders.

In the book, I describe nine different leaders who are embodying this way of conscious and inclusive leadership. But let me give you an example. Imagine that you are in a team meeting, and a team member is dominating the conversation. Perhaps it's the leader. They're interacting. They're overtly expressing micro inequities, to more marginalized members in the group. A conscious and inclusive person, regardless of rank or title will speak up. Because they've cultivated those inner game qualities I spoke to you before. Let's say this person's name is Willie. They might say something like you just interrupted Karen and Ray. I really want to hear what they have to say. Or in the case of a microaggression. Willie might lead with curiosity and say, Can you share more about what you mean by that statement? Or I don't understand what point you are trying to convey. Can you tell me more by speaking up, we are bringing awareness, education and assertiveness to the behavior. Silence is complicity. And if we can't challenge, call in or even call out these micro inequities, these acts of exclusion, the hurt and harm continues.

05:27

When you have cultivated those inner game skills I was speaking on before, you will have the courage, compassion and consciousness to have these kinds of brave exchanges. The future of work amidst distributed remote teams will require even greater intentionality from leaders to create atmospheres and environments that are connected, collaborative and inclusive. leaders and those who feel called to lead have an incredible opportunity to support a workplace that works for everyone. And if you would like more support in creating this type of learning and leadership culture, please reach out to me and we can book a free consultation.

06:19

Okay, let's talk about a more unconscious leadership style. You are likely seeing something like this. There is a senior leader who, let's say, is a cisgendered white male. He's an executive at this organization, and has been in his current role for several years. He has five direct leadership reports, and he uses tactics of micromanaging. He has even at times taken on some of his direct leadership reports, program ideas and passed them off as his own, not giving credit where credit was due, therefore hindering promotion and positive performance reviews. As a result, there is a lack of psychological safety. The leaders who report to him do not feel empowered in their ability to share ideas to empower their direct reports or their teams. They don't feel like this leader has their back. And they don't know how to speak to it. And this one leader creates a negative culture where no one feels like they can make mistakes where people don't feel included, or there is no accountability. And therefore people don't feel they can rely on one another because their efforts could be undermined, based on how this leader reacts. In summary, this one leader is having a large negative impact on business plans, ideas, interactions, and even systems of the organization itself.

So how does one coach this kind of behavior and leadership? How do we shift it? If you're reporting to this kind of leader, here are a few tactics first, try and understand what their motivation is for leading this way. Why have they said what they said, why might they have acted like they acted. Second, there is likely some mental health and pathology underneath these behaviors, potentially a narcissistic personality disorder or something else. Those with narcissistic tendencies have a large sense of inadequacy. And based on my background, as a therapist, which is what I focused on before I stepped into executive coaching, and working in organizational and leadership development. I am aware that there are a lot of leaders with this type of personality trait. And it's often not something that's easily changed, and it's usually stemming from deep childhood trauma. There were likely repeated experiences of never being able to please a parent neglect, emotional, physical and or sexual abuse. Narcissus may seem very confident, they may appear very charismatic. But that confidence is really a deep vulnerability and a lot of shame of who they really know themselves to be.

10:00

So how do you challenge the inner narcissist? Let me be frank, we all have narcissistic tendencies, this desire to be seen to be acknowledged, we can be self serving, we can forget about somebody else's needs or desires other than our own. But the type of leader that I'm speaking to here that has this really strong negative impact on the team, and the culture is usually a consequence of deeper pathology at play. Like the leader example above. So knowing this, how do you challenge this? Well, this person has low self esteem. So we don't want to destroy it anymore, because that will likely activate more unconscious behavior. Instead, we want to convey respect and acknowledge their need to be recognized in a certain way. We want to show empathy initially so that we can gain trust. We want to showcase compassion so that we can begin to challenge and confront these dysfunctional behaviors.

Third, these types of behaviors and personalities need to be held accountable. And they are prone to gaslighting, there is usually a lack of self awareness, a lack of empathy, and a lack of personal responsibility. So in my experience, you have to have multiple people and senior leadership on board for these behaviors, and negative consequences to be held accountable. And they also have to be showcased, in full view of everyone else, having private conversations are not going to get this type of behavior to change in a more sustainable way.

One of the things that I find really helpful in these types of situations and with these kinds of leaders is to show data of the negative consequences of these behaviors on the team and the culture. I am a certified practitioner, and the psychological safety scan, which is an assessment of psychological safety. That is showcasing four different dimensions. It comes from Dr. Amy Edmondson’s 25 years of research at Harvard on the subject of psychological safety. And when this assessment is given, I have real data that allows me to give an open conversation about what is actually happening. As a result of this research on consciousness. It creates an opportunity to point to the negative impact it is having not only on the team, but the entire culture and create the business case and motivation for an intervention to shift it. Additionally, assessment and the debrief creates accountability and transparency. So that gaslighting and deflecting by this leader is minimized. After everything is being brought into the open, there's a real opportunity to shift this type of leadership behavior. And that's the negative impacts on the culture.

13:41

And now what? I would love to support your organization or leadership team with. So if you would like support around this type of challenge in your organization or leadership team, I would love to help you. And I specialize in these three ways, coaching folks on how to navigate these situations. If you'd like to have me help you assess the psychological safety in the team or the culture, and then do a debrief and have recommendations for an intervention for greater safety, inclusion, accountability, and overall flourishing. Or, if you're seeking someone to support you in a more full time capacity on this topic, please feel free to contact me. I would be happy to book a free consultation with you and put you in touch with someone who can help because I have a big network and I love to help people.

14:45

I'm going to leave you with three takeaways. Be conscious, intentional, and courageous. If we don't step forward, and push back or call in on people, the systems and structures will continue to not work and then we can't create a healthy environment or workplace that works for everyone and where we can all flourish. The topic of men being allies, and shifting this way of unconscious leadership is something I feel really passionate about. And I've written articles and recorded podcasts in the last few years on this topic. I'm gonna leave a link for one of the articles in the show notes for you to read. But essentially, women, men, people of color, marginalized groups, we all have an opportunity and a responsibility to invite men to be more conscious and inclusive. And since men hold the majority of power, social capital and influence at work in the world, it is so important that we bring light and thus can create the healing and transformation that is needed.

If you have any questions or comments, please email me at support at Carley Hauck and I would love to hear from you. Finally, thank you so much for your attention, for tuning in and being part of this community. Until we meet again, be the light and shine the light.

What is the responsibility and opportunity of the individual, businesses, and communities to act together for socially just and environmentally responsible commitments at work.

The panelists joining me are my friends Rob Herring, who is an environmental filmmaker and musical activist. He directed/produced/wrote The Need To GROW, winner of multiple Best Documentary awards and seen in 175 countries around the world.

Josh Tetrick, is the CEO/Founder of Eat JUST a technology company shaping the future of food. It has a mission to bring healthier and affordable food to everyone. The magic of Eat JUST uses the world’s first database of plants to support greater flourishing without killing a single animal or cutting down trees or forests for food.

Anne Therese is a self-proclaimed climate optimist, environmental activist, and the co-founder of Role Models Management, a talent agency that puts ethics, sustainability, and social justice at its core. Join us to create a flourishing workplace and world that works for everyone.

SEO Description: Climate change is not a singular problem that is going to be solved anytime soon, but our world today is filled with enthusiastic, strong and conscious leaders that are affecting real change. In this powerful panel discussion, I’m joined by three courageous leaders who are working toward an optimistic future in which the negative effects of climate change are becoming a thing of the past.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

The Need to Grow Food Documentary by Rob Herring

Eat JUST

Anne Therese Climate Optimism Master Course

Leading from Wholeness Learning and Development Resources

Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World by Carley Hauck

Mindfulness and Compassion — Free Week

NASA on Climate Change

Drawdown free course

How to Save a Planet podcast

President Biden on Clean Energy

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What is your company doing to create a more inclusive economy? Imagine a workplace where people of all colors and races are able to climb every ring of the corporate ladder — and where the lessons we learn about diversity at work actually transform the things we do, think, and say outside the office. How do we get there? In this candid panel of women, we will explore the mindset and heartset needed to give women the leverage to lead and support business to be a force for good.

Today’s powerful panelists are Jennifer Brown, CEO and Founder of Jennifer Brown Consulting and Mita Mallick, Head of Inclusion at Carta. Their insights and intentional steps show exactly how their dedicated work is helping to create a workplace and a world that works for everyone.

Key Takeaways:

[1:17] Carley shares the impact of pandemic-induced throngs of women leaving the workforce and welcomes today’s guests and panelists Jennifer Brown and Mita Mallick.

[10:13] What is the current state of gender and equity, and why are these numbers so detrimental to equity in the workforce?

[13:20] Defining intersectionality, universal design and the gender pay gap of intersectionality.

[18:33] What is the current state of gender equity and the future of the workplace? Questions you can ask yourself about your commitment level and ways you can prioritize a workplace structure that works for more of us.

[23:06] Increase awareness and equity of your capital by conducting an inventory of your workplace presence.

[26:47] Mita reflects on how she has navigated working from home while caring for her children.

[30:18] The importance of equal and destigmatized maternity and paternity leave and parental support in the workplace.

[36:30] Tools that can help cultivate the inner qualities that will affect real change in processes.

[43:20] Increasing awareness and powerful ways to create a space that allows everyone to bring their whole self to the workplace.

[48:04] The importance of overcoming fragility to minimize triggering by other people’s experiences starts with understanding shame and guilt.

[51:10] Resources and skills that allow women to be strong leaders.

[54:42] More is not better — Carley shares the critical systems and structures that need to be put in place as we emerge from the pandemic.

[56:16] What is the importance of the role of male allies in the workplace?

[1:01:05] Creating safe spaces for connection with others starts with checking our own biases.

[1:05:31] The power of enrolling both men and women in affecting meaningful change.

[1:06:28] How can we reconcile with the people who are onboard with this mindset and those who are not?

[1:13:32] Carley invites listeners to reflect on the one thing that embodies a better workplace and world.

Resources:

Leading from Wholeness

Carley Hauck on Instagram

Carley Hauck on LinkedIn

Lead From Light Daily Rituals

Shinebook

Sounds True Publishing

Free Community Events

Jennifer Brown

Mita Mallick

“Nine Tips for Being a Male Ally at Work” from Greater Good Magazine

When it comes to raising the voices, power, and social influence of marginalized groups, people of color, women-identifying, and communities experiencing discrimination and exclusion, men are needed as allies in order to create a workplace and a world that works for all of us. During this powerful panel discussion with male allies, you will learn how to challenge, enroll, and take inspired action at work to support the global shift toward greater justice, equity, inclusion, and belonging.

I’m joined today by four male allies who are calling in, challenging and using their voice, social capital and influence to support women, people of color, LGBTQ+ folks and marginalized identities. The panel includes Founder and CEO of Hummingbird Humanity Brian McComak; Head of Learning & Development at ReadySet Willie Jackson; Vice President Intel Corporation Operations General Manager Corporate Services Americas Manufacturing Operations Vince Gugliemetti and LinkedIn Principal Learning and Development Partner Kyle Grubman. Together we delve into the critical importance of showing up, speaking out, and championing the change that we need to see in the workplace and the world.

Key Takeaways:

[1:46] Carley reflects on the critical importance of male allies in creating a culture of inclusion and belonging.

[18:48] An introduction of each of the all-male panelists who embody the conscious and inclusive way of leading at work and in the world.

[27:23] Carley shares the statistics and experiences that have brought the topic of male allyship to central importance to her.

[35:12] Why is it so hard to speak up in a professional environment? Carley speaks to the factors that can prevent voices from speaking out and the covering that occurs in response to fear and shame lurking in the workplace.

[38:22] What is male allyship and how is it different from simply being an ally? Vince reflects on his responsibility to educate himself as a male ally and Willie shares his definition of male allyship as both a marginalized and privileged male.

[43:00] Kyle shares his desire to celebrate and champion women, the importance of validating others and also of challenging others to give up their privilege so that the real work can happen.

[45:58] Brian reflects on the practice of allyship and the importance of amplifying the voices of others and how it shapes how all groups of people can experience the world.

[47:23] The value of cultivating the inner game and reflecting it on the outside as a male ally in the workplace starts with amplifying all voices by creating opportunities for more people, taking up less space and offering credit to others.

[56:55] Overcoming the sociocultural obstacles of the ‘man box’ starts with challenging the way that men are expected to show up in the world and removing yourself from spaces that don’t support your intentions.

[1:01:25] Love needs to be the driving emotion at the core of every action we take, regardless of gender.

[1:06:28] Curiosity can be harnessed to build connections and increase understanding. Perspectives from the LGBTQ+ and other URMs offer insights into how we can each show up as ourselves.

[1:09:40] Practical ways that everyone can show up as their true self in order to grant permission to others to do the same.

[1:15:56] Opportunities to get involved as an ally reveal blind spots, challenges long-held traditions and impacts lasting change.

[1:18:18] How can leaders increase their vulnerability and take greater personal responsibility for how their actions impact others.

[1:23:11] What steps does an inclusive leader take when someone needs to hear feedback on how their behavior is negatively impacting others?

[1:26:25] How can the next generation be raised to be effective allies with less of a learning curve than we are currently facing?

[1:30:08] Carley offers simple actions that will elevate the momentum of male allies and details the guests and topics of upcoming panel discussions.

Resources:

Leading from Wholeness

Carley Hauck on Instagram

Carley Hauck on LinkedIn

Lead From Light Daily Rituals

Four Sigmatic — use discount code SHINE for 15% off

Shinebook

Sounds True Publishing

Free Community Events

Brian McComak

Willie Jackson

Vince Gugliemetti

Kyle Grubman

Assume Nothing: A Story of Intimate Violence by Tanya Selvaratnam

What is a conscious and inclusive leader? It is harnessing the qualities on the inside to make a strong commitment to justice, equity, diversion and inclusion to mobilize business to take responsibility for social and environmental concerns. Conscious and inclusive leaders around the world are answering this call to action, and are leading companies and creating opportunities to affect change as a force for good.

In this first of several panel discussions, I’m joined by three leaders who are using their voices and influence to create a more just and inclusive world. Prior CEO of three mission-driven

businesses Sheryl O’Loughlin, B Corporation movement expert Ryan Honeyman, and equity and inclusion advocate Dr. Nika White have come together to reflect on their experiences and share their wisdom topics surrounding the role of leaders in bridging the divide to create a world that works for everyone. Together we examine how leaders can ignite their inner game, have the brave exchanges that impact change and champion a world of inclusion, diversity, equity and justice.

Key Takeaways:

[1:46] Carley introduces the upcoming community event that will highlight the major themes of the book and reflects on the positive changes that leaders are experiencing in the wake of the pandemic.

[6:47] An overview of each of the inspired and mission-driven guests that make up today’s panel and an inclusive welcome to all participants.

[14:40] Who is a leader or mentor that has influenced each of the panelists in a positive way? Dr. White reflects on a mentor who intentionally guided her into a place of positive power.

[19:08] Ryan shares the lessons he learned from a mentor about the importance of calling others in and Sheryl reflects on the value of slowing down and being a force for good.

[23:53] What does ‘business as a force for good’ mean to conscious and inclusive leaders? Insights into the mission and focus of companies that are striving to be a force for good in all that they do.

[33:05] The inner game must be developed before leaders can confidently show up at work and in the world. Sheryl reflects on the power of love in justice, equity, diversion and inclusion.

[37:24] How do leaders cultivate inner self love in order to more freely express it to others?

[39:45] Self-awareness and role it plays in the importance of valuing diversity, equity and inclusion.

[44:46] The impact that a strong commitment to justice, equity, diversion and inclusion can have as leaders work to overcome the racial injustice in our country, beginning with their own emotional capital.

[49:54] A shift from negative energy to a place of inclusion and understanding is critical to effective leadership.

[53:35] The power shift that has to come in order to impact real change in our businesses and in our world.

[57:00] Carley reflects on the intimate experience that even further fueled her mission to champion a world of inclusion, diversity, equity and justice.

[1:00:00] The brave exchanges and courageous conversations that the panelists have experienced that resulted in a greater level of inclusivity.

[1:09:07] Why is justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion so important in the world from the B Corporation perspective?

[1:14:35] A powerful call to action to support a more conscious and inclusive workplace and world.

[1:21:07] Details about the guests and topics of upcoming panel discussions and information about the newly released book Shine.

Resources:

Leading from Wholeness

Carley Hauck on Instagram

Carley Hauck on LinkedIn

Lead From Light Daily Rituals

Four Sigmatic — use discount code SHINE for 15% off

Shinebook

Sounds True Publishing

Free Community Events

Sheryl O’Loughlin

Ryan Honeyman

Nika White

B Impact Assessment

In this powerful interview, I speak to my friend and colleague Willie Jackson, a DEI Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) Consultant & Head of Facilitation with ReadySet, a boutique consulting firm based in the San Francisco Bay Area. He is a frequent writer and speaker on the topics of workplace equity, global diversity, and inclusive leadership.

Willie and I speak about what he learned in 2020 in the DEI space, what learning and development needs were being asked for most, and the importance of doing our inner work to be allies and create greater healing in the workplace and world. In this interview, you will learn what you can do to support the shift to a more inclusive workplace and world. When we commit to a conscious inner game, learn to sit with discomfort, and act courageously in the service of others, we can build a more unified and just world.

Key Takeaways:

[1:46] Carley defines allyship as the instrument that supports healing the divide to create a more inclusive world.

[5:16] What does allyship in action look like? Carley shares several simple ideas and introduces her guest Willie Jackson.

[7:19] Why does diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging matter to a black male in America? The story that wasn’t told inspired Willie to begin to both celebrate and heal.

[11:50] How have Willie’s increased learnings, awareness, and failings influenced his work?

[14:12] Willie shares his perspective on the awakening and increased awareness that have emerged as a result of the events of 2020.

[19:25] Is it truly possible to affect long term change when facing the inconvenient reality that people are incredibly biased?

[23:25] The goals and results of successful ally skills training, including defining values, recognizing identities, and increasing performative allyship.

[27:54] Is it wrong to call yourself an ally? Willie explains the potentially harmful effects of making such a statement and what you can say instead.

[32:10] The importance of creating brave spaces over creating safe spaces to effectively repair harm, even when it’s incredibly uncomfortable.

[38:26] What can you do today to take the first step toward inclusion and greater diversity?

[42:05] The most effective positive changes happen long after the one-day training is over.

[46:30] What is the greatest obstacle to acting as an ally and how can you overcome it?

[51:16] The value of taking time to truly learn and understand how our country got to the tragic point that it is at today.

[52:25] Willie shares the number one quality that a person who is seeking to activate equality must possess.

[56:11] Carley shares simple ways that you can take steps toward greater equality today.

Resources:

Leading from Wholeness

Carley Hauck on Instagram

Carley Hauck on LinkedIn

Lead From Light Daily Rituals

Four Sigmatic — use discount code SHINE for 15% off

Shinebook

Willie Jackson

Seeing White Series from Duke Studies