Since Attlee & Churchill

In this week's Matters of Interest, Richard reflects on the historic size of the Civil Service and considers whether Reform's plan to reduce it is really the solution to getting things done in Britain. Lee thinks back to the noughties when Labour last tried to introduce ID cards and asks what Keir Starmer could learn from Tony Blair. And the pair discuss - and disagree! - on whether compulsory voting is a good idea.

Visit the Since Attlee & Churchill bookshop to find books recently discussed on the podcast: https://uk.bookshop.org/shop/saac

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Since Attlee & Churchill is a podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill - and is hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this week's podcast, we discuss one of the most important forks in the road in Britain's post-war history: when Clement Attlee's Labour government refused to take part in discussions on the Schuman Plan, which would become the European Coal and Steel Community and ultimately evolve into the European Union. What motivated their decision? Was it Germanophobia, or a devotion to socialism? And did their decision mean that European integration was set on a course that meant Britain could never truly be happy as part of the European project? We discuss these questions - and more!

In this podcast, the following books are mentioned:

'The Death of Consensus: 100 Years of British Political Nightmares' by Phil Tinline. Available at: https://uk.bookshop.org/a/16406/9781805260356

'Another England: How to Reclaim Our National Story' by Caroline Lucas. Available at: https://uk.bookshop.org/a/16406/9781804941591

More generally, buying your books via the Since Attlee & Churchill page on Bookshop.org is a great way to support the podcast. Click here to visit the shop: https://uk.bookshop.org/shop/saac

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Since Attlee & Churchill is a podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill - and is hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Richard kicks off this week's 'Matters of Interest' episode by discussing whether the old political parties in Britain - the Conservatives and Labour - are dying, changing, or simply finding they have new competitors vying for power. Lee focuses on the question of Margaret Thatcher's legacy, one he is keen to defend - and Richard even keener to condemn.

Visit the Since Attlee & Churchill bookshop to find books recently discussed on the podcast: https://uk.bookshop.org/shop/saac

***

Since Attlee & Churchill is a podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill - and is hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

October 2025 marks 100 years since the birth of Margaret Thatcher. In this week's podcast, Lee and Richard discuss the dramatic events that came in her sixty-sixth year: her downfall as Prime Minister. Why did she resign after eleven and a half years in Number 10? Could she have fought on? And if she had stayed in power, would she have won the 1991/2 general election? Listen to find out their answers to these questions - and more.

In this episode, the following books are mentioned:

'The World We Have Lost' by Peter Laslett. Available at: https://uk.bookshop.org/a/16406/9780367705329

'The Man Who Was Thursday' by G. K. Chesterton. Available at: https://uk.bookshop.org/a/16406/9781513271842

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Since Attlee & Churchill is a podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill - and is hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Lee and Richard discuss whether the public really pay attention to politics - with Lee challenging the shibboleth of some political commentators that very few people really pay attention to what is going on in Westminster. They also discuss party memberships, following news that the Lib Dem membership has halved in the last five years. And Richard shares his thoughts on the importance of free-to-use toilets in public spaces, in a discussion that ranges from the London Underground to Japan via one of Barbara Castle's first ever political campaigns.

Since Attlee & Churchill Substack, featuring bonus podcasts: https://www.sinceattleeandchurchill.com/

Since Attlee & Churchill bookshop: https://uk.bookshop.org/shop/saac

***

Since Attlee & Churchill is a podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill - and is hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

115 years ago this week, one of Labour's most iconic politicians was born. Barbara Castle grew up in Yorkshire before attending Oxford University and becoming a Labour MP in 1945. For over three decades, she was one of the best-known MPs in the country and one of the most forceful advocates for socialism. In this episode, Lee interviews Richard about Castle's life and achievements and Richard explains why she is his favourite Labour politician of all time.

In this episode, the following books are mentioned:

'A Year with Gilbert White' by Jenny Uglow. Available at: https://uk.bookshop.org/a/16406/9780571354184

'The Castle Diaries 1964-1976' by Barbara Castle. Available at: https://amzn.to/4732K78

Did you know there is also a Since Attlee & Churchill Substack? Find it at: https://www.sinceattleeandchurchill.com/

***

Since Attlee & Churchill is a podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill - and is hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Throughout the month of October, Lee and Richard are experimenting with mid-week editions of Matters of Interest. In this first episode, Lee returns from Conservative Party Conference and shares his thoughts on Margaret Thatcher's legacy and the Tories' newly announced policies. And Richard discovers an almost century-old prescription given to Winston Churchill by an American doctor, which reveals a great deal about what it was like to live (and be treated) in America under prohibition.

Since Attlee & Churchill Substack, featuring bonus podcasts: https://www.sinceattleeandchurchill.com/

Since Attlee & Churchill bookshop: https://uk.bookshop.org/shop/saac

***

Since Attlee & Churchill is a podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill - and is hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the second part of their miniseries on consequential party conferences, Richard and Lee discuss the Conservatives' 2005 gathering in Blackpool. In the wake of their third successive election defeat, Tories gathered on the Fylde coast to mull over the choice of leader. The front-runner at the start of proceedings would bomb on the conference stage and a little known MP would emerge as the leader-in-waiting - setting him on course to the party leadership and 10 Downing Street.

In this episode, the following books are mentioned:

'Looking for Rights in All the Wrong Places' by Emily Zackin. Available at: https://uk.bookshop.org/a/16406/9780691155784

'The Past Masters' by Harold Macmillan. Available at: https://amzn.to/4gZ2N8M

***

Since Attlee & Churchill is a podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill - and is hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

With party conference season underway, Lee and Richard begin a new two-part miniseries discussing some of the most consequential Labour and Conservative conferences in the post-war era. First up is Labour's 1952 conference in Morecambe. Amidst pelting rain, Britain's socialists gathered in opposition for the first time in over a decade. The party was deeply split over its own record in government and its future direction - with combustible speeches and outrageous heckling dominating the proceedings in the hall.

In this episode, the following books are mentioned:

'Our Evenings' by Alan Hollinghurst. Available at: https://uk.bookshop.org/a/16406/9781447208242

'Athelstan: The Making of England' by Tom Holland. Available at: https://uk.bookshop.org/a/16406/9780141987330

***

Since Attlee & Churchill is a podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill - and is hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In June 1995, John Major shocked the political world by resigning as Leader of the Conservative Party. But in the very next sentence of his resignation statement, he confirmed that he would be standing to be his own successor. Why? What did he hope to achieve? Who stood against him? And what were the consequences? We look back 30 years to these dramatic political events and ask what lessons other political leaders, including Keir Starmer, could learn from them.

In this episode, the following books are mentioned:

'The Rage of Party' by George Owers. Available at: https://uk.bookshop.org/a/16406/9781408719091

'Making Americans' by Desmond King. Available at: https://amzn.to/4mAIJe9

***

Since Attlee & Churchill is a podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill - and is hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.