Slow Train to Heck

The Slow Train is back, and with it comes David Hayward, a.k.a. the Naked Pastor. David is a former pastor who has since become an artist, creating amazing paintings and cartoons that challenge aspects of religious environments in ways that provoke conversations - in fact he's recently released a collection of cartoons called Flip it Like This which you can check out right now and put it on your coffee table if you want to spark some conversations of your own. He's also an author, having written 10 books including one of my favourites, Til Doubt Do Us Part, about changing beliefs and their impact within marriage. 

David and I chat about his own deconstruction, and the multiple facets that are contained within deconstruction - not just theologically, but also ecclesiologically, as people often find themselves needing to deconstruct what church was to them and find their way outside of those community spaces. We also talk about what healthy spiritual growth is, not letting others impose their agendas on our deconstruction, and the importance of enjoying the current moment you find yourself in along your journey.

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Check out the Naked Pastor at nakedpastor.com or @nakedpastor on Instagram!

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I mentioned Carly Butler's Patreon in the podcast endnotes - here's a link to that as well: https://www.patreon.com/CarlyButler

Walter Schultz hops on the Slow Train to Heck to share his story of being required to attend church as a child, the confusion that caused him when presented with two wildly opposed worldviews between Sunday School and public school, and how his relationship with his mother was what ultimately helped him escape that world and leave it behind.

Content warnings: spousal abuse, generational trauma, residential schools/church abuse, the holocaust

This week Marie Wall shares her story of joining, living in, and ultimately Escaping the Church of God fundamentalist Christian cult in Aylmer, Ontario. She shares her harrowing experience of being slowly worn down by the church until she joined, then being brainwashed to believe that there was no hope for her outside their walls. After a deep descent into depression, she was able to escape and has never been happier. 

Content warnings: significant spiritual and religious abuse, physical abuse of children, depression, suicide

If you're struggling with suicidal thoughts, please call for help. Canada's suicide hotline is 18334564566 or can be texted at 45645.

Jake Kroeker chats with us this week about his time at Trinity Bible Chapel, a fundamentalist evangelical church in the Waterloo Region of Ontario that has been increasingly positioning itself at the forefront of a growing Christian Nationalist movement among evangelical churches here in Canada. Jake talks about what motivates people who adhere to Trinity and churches like it, what his path out of that environment was, and how we can interact with people who hold those beliefs without further fanning the flames of their extremism.

Content warnings:  homophobic and transphobic slurs are referenced, as used by leadership at Trinity Bible Chapel

We rejoin Luke Williams this week as he shares the remainder of his story, detailing the changes in his life after he left Christianity. Luke covers a whole bunch of life experiences and viewpoints, including exploring polyamorous relationships and cannabis and other drugs; working with the homeless, and organizing conventions; inconsistencies in the Bible and the human influence on its creation; and how his personal politics and views of society and people have been influenced by leaving Christianity.

Content warnings: drug use

Luke provided some show notes as well, which are as follows:

Music Stuff:

-The Plok Soundtrack (Starting from Beach when it gets good!) - https://youtu.be/0JVJP6te8n4?t=1053
-Sammus' powerful rap about inclusion at Magfest 2016 - https://youtu.be/Ss18rvfkCd0?t=2137
-Earthbound Song 'Happy Happy Is Blue' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReKd5LpEOQc
-Jacob Collier's Chestnuts Roasting On An Open Fire - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9CusMKhoqk
-Phil Keaggy - The Reunion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC4om10cfWw
-And for the very brave: Luke's Spotify Top 20 VERY Wild Favourite Songs- https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4Nrowj6IYnIkRkel83hHDm

Luke recommends the following Leftist Podcasts:

For informative deep dives on misinformation: Citations Needed - https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/

For improv comedy stories from history from two leftists comedians: The Dollop - https://www.dolloppodcast.com/podcast

For the murder podcast fan; but more important to know about: Behind the Bastards - https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/

For a scripted podcast about potential solutions: Unf*cking the Republic - https://www.unftr.com/

And check out what an Israeli Kibbutz can look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ies2R__4c58 (not prescriptive, just fascinating...) 

Luke is @lessashamed on Twitter, and he would love to know what you thought about his story. E-mail him: cheflwilliams AT gmail DOT com 

Luke Williams joins the Slow Train to Heck to share his journey through and out of Christianity. Luke has lived through many different experiences in his life, and the message of suffering, and the expectation of suffering both now and in the future, was a strong one. However, Luke was able to move beyond that message and share his story with us now.

I'm a big believer in people being able to share all of themselves and their whole story, and Luke and I realized that his story needed two parts to be told in full. This episode is Part One, and Part Two will be released on October 19th.

Content warnings: homophobia, medical situations

Luke provided some show notes as well, which are as follows:

Music Stuff:

-The Plok Soundtrack (Starting from Beach when it gets good!) - https://youtu.be/0JVJP6te8n4?t=1053
-Sammus' powerful rap about inclusion at Magfest 2016 - https://youtu.be/Ss18rvfkCd0?t=2137
-Earthbound Song 'Happy Happy Is Blue' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReKd5LpEOQc
-Jacob Collier's Chestnuts Roasting On An Open Fire - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9CusMKhoqk
-Phil Keaggy - The Reunion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC4om10cfWw
-And for the very brave: Luke's Spotify Top 20 VERY Wild Favourite Songs- https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4Nrowj6IYnIkRkel83hHDm

Luke recommends the following Leftist Podcasts:

For informative deep dives on misinformation: Citations Needed - https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/

For improv comedy stories from history from two leftists comedians: The Dollop - https://www.dolloppodcast.com/podcast

For the murder podcast fan; but more important to know about: Behind the Bastards - https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/

For a scripted podcast about potential solutions: Unf*cking the Republic - https://www.unftr.com/

And check out what an Israeli Kibbutz can look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ies2R__4c58 (not prescriptive, just fascinating...) 

Luke is @lessashamed on Twitter, and he would love to know what you thought about his story. E-mail him: cheflwilliams AT gmail DOT com 

Andrew Benson is a freelance writer, entrepreneur, pastor, and hiking enthusiast, who has worked in ministry all over Canada. Andrew and I have a great chat in this episode about what deconstruction looks like as a pastor, what deconstruction means to him, how interacting with people of other beliefs and cultures has impacted the way he sees things now, and what it might look like to hold things gently after redefining our beliefs.

Carly Butler is an indigenous woman who was born in the US, but now lives in British Columbia. Carly grew up in a Christian environment characterized by fear: Fear of government, fear of persecution, and most of all, the fear of the apocalypse. That fear drove her mother to take her to Canada to escape the coming tribulation, and things progressed from there. Carly's life is an amazing story of resilience in the face of overwhelming trauma, and I'm really honoured that she's chosen to share it with us!

Content warnings: acute religious trauma, apocalypse fear, Covid conspiracies, homophobia, colonization and genocide of indigenous people, residential schools, the pope's 'apology' tour

Carly's article about residential schools and the Doctrine of Discovery: https://looselipsmag.com/narratives/anger-residential-schools-and-the-tragically-hip/
Carly's article about the pandemic and its effects on her family: https://carlyhutton.medium.com/the-kids-are-not-all-right-c9084303b82c

GoFundMe for Carly's family: https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-the-button-family 

Amanda joins us this week to talk about her exit from the church and how she never fit the mold the church wants her to. She also shares her experiences as a mom of autistic children, and the challenges of being part of a church community who expected her kids to act a certain way - and how her and her kids' experience of Christianity caused her to feel like a failed Christian, and how the framework of evangelicalism had a negative impact on her mental health. 

Content warnings: ableism in the church, particularly prejudice against autistic people, as well as discussions around anxiety and depression

Rev. Sarah Heath, author, designer, pastor, life coach, and host of great podcasts like Revcovery, joins us on the Slow Train to Heck this week.  Sarah grew up in Ontario working at Christian camp where she discovered her own innate leadership skills which would eventually translate to her being a great leader in church ministry. When she moved to the Bible Belt in the USA, she encountered a different version of Christianity than the one she was used to in Canada. Sarah shares her story of navigating American Christianity while moving up in the ministry world as a "professional Christian", becoming the "Pastor Sarah" persona while losing touch with how to be "Sarah" - until she eventually left formal Christian ministry and was able to rediscover who Sarah is outside of that environment. 

Check out REVCovery: https://www.irreverent.fm/show/revcovery/

Connect with Sarah: https://revsarahheath.com/

The Brian McLaren book Sarah mentioned: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/58724954-do-i-stay-christian