We're back, baby. Season 3 kicks off with what we're now calling a Katie & Katie Special. We felt like the distinction was necessary considering how many guests we have coming your way, so sit back, relax, and listen to us argue about localizing events, AI, and a bunch of other shit.

We cover two case studies about the future of events without people in mind & what it actually means to build a personal brand when everyone is screaming for attention. 

You'll hear a lot of...

🎙️ Real talk about the real stuff - From twin parenting chaos to holiday survival stories, this isn't your typical season premiere corporate speak (you should know this about us by now though, right??)

🤖  Arguing about AI - How do you stay genuinely you when AI can now mimic your voice, style, and expertise? (Hint: it's harder than you think)

📱 Questions about personal branding - The landscape shifted while we were on break, and what worked six months ago is already outdated

🎬 Ideas on how to earn attention in the attention economy - Why the old media playbook is officially dead and what's replacing it

💼 Agreeing to disagree on the content creation crisis - Traditional media jobs are vanishing, but new opportunities are emerging for people who get it

PLUS authenticity just became your only competitive advantage. In a world where AI can generate technically perfect content at scale, being actually yourself (aka messy, opinionated, human) is the only thing machines can't replicate. We break down why this matters more for communications professionals than any tactical tip you'll hear this year.

PLUS PLUS: What government funding for South x Southwest reveals about the future of media events, why adaptability isn't optional anymore, and how to balance maintaining your individual voice while building something bigger.

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Hello from down unda! We're on the same time zone for the first time for a year and wanted to take a quick moment to wrap up Season 2 with a gratitude bow. Thank you to everyone for tuning and chiming in -- we still can't believe that our little passion project has turned into the platform that it has! 

We'll be back for Season 3 mid-January 2026 with some guests that we're extremely excited about!! Until then, have a very happy holidays and in the meantime we'll be photoshopping our heads onto Sydney Sweeney's body.

xoxo,

The Katies

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Crisis communications expert Tara Goodwin has seen it all: executives freezing under pressure, companies making bad situations catastrophically worse, and the rare leaders who actually nail it when everything's on fire. In this no-BS conversation with the Katies, Tara shares why most organizations are dangerously unprepared for inevitable crises and what actually works when your reputation is on the line.

Most CEOs don't have a dedicated crisis plan. They're operating on vibes, crossing their fingers, and hoping their "strong company culture" will save them. In theory, this type of CEO sounds like a fun person who you'd want to have a beer with. But in reality this mentality is a bomb waiting to go off.

Why this episode slaps:

🚨 The preparation gap - Why "we'll figure it out when it happens" is the most expensive strategy in business (and why most executives still believe it)

👥 Your employees are your crisis team - How the most underutilized asset in crisis communications is sitting in your Slack channels right now

⚡ Speed vs. perfection - Why social media has made your 24-hour response window obsolete, and what crisis communicators are doing instead

💰 Accountability is your superpower - The counterintuitive reason why owning your mistakes faster actually limits damage (not extends it)

🧠 The executive toll nobody talks about - The emotional and psychological impact on leaders during crises that changes how you should structure your crisis team

🤖 AI's crisis planning advantage - How smart teams are using AI for scenario planning without letting robots write their actual crisis responses

The Hot Takes That'll Make You Rethink Everything:

Tara and the Katies dive deep into three recent crisis case studies that reveal exactly what works (and what fails spectacularly):

• Astronomer's Coldplay Gate and the slow responses
• The Tylenol autism litigation crisis - When letting lawyers control communications for too long undermines your public credibility
• Jimmy Kimmel's FCC showdown - Perfect crisis PR in action: emotional accountability without full apology, thanking enemies, and flipping the narrative
• Sydney Sweeney's response strategy - Why ego and perception management can make or break your crisis comeback
• Why Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni just can't seem to let it go.

Crisis management isn't about avoiding mistakes—it's about having the infrastructure, team diversity, and emotional resilience to respond effectively when (not if) things go sideways. Proactive planning and backwards mapping from worst-case scenarios prevents escalation that reactive organizations never recover from.

Your crisis plan needs to account for the fact that transparency isn't just expected anymore—it's demanded. Your employees will talk, social media will accelerate everything, and your window for controlling the narrative gets smaller every year.

Read Tara's book: Manage the Message, Change the Outcome: An Executive’s Guide to Crisis Management

Thank you Tara for coming on the show!!!!!!

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Most PR professionals think they understand journalists—but Meredith Klein, the veteran communications strategist behind the rapidly-growing Meredith & the Media newsletter, is here to take us to school. In this no-holds-barred conversation with host Katie Boysen, Meredith pulls back the curtain on the massive disconnect (AND OPPORTUNITY) between what PR professionals think journalists want versus what actually lands coverage.

With 20 years of communications experience and a Substack that's exploded to thousands of subscribers in record time, Meredith has become the translator between two industries that should understand each other but often don't. Her insights reveal why the old playbook for comms is dead, and shares real and practical tips on how to break through the noise and appeal to media in this new landscape.

🎯 The pitch problem nobody's solving - Why your carefully crafted three-paragraph pitch is getting deleted and what journalists actually want to see instead

🔥 Personal branding as career insurance - How building your own platform isn't vanity—it's survival strategy in today's fractured job market

💡 The journalist relationship reality - What "building relationships" actually means (hint: it's not just following them on Twitter and liking their posts)

📱 Substack strategy secrets - How Meredith grew her newsletter rapidly and what PR professionals can learn from independent media's growth playbook

🤖 The AI draft trap - Why using AI to write your pitches is obvious to journalists and undermining your credibility

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Ever notice how when corporate giants go to war, they suddenly discover their deep concern for "customers" and "fairness"? 

This week on Smart in Public, the Katies dissect the Disney vs. Google/YouTube TV standoff and spoiler alert: neither company gives a damn about you. What they do care about? Leverage, market control, and making sure you think they're the good guys while they battle for billions. 

Most coverage of corporate disputes treats them like sports rivalries—pick a side, root for your team. We're taking a different approach: exposing how both companies weaponize "public interest" language while actively screwing over the actual public.

When unprecedented competitors with unlimited resources clash, "fair access" becomes a PR talking point, not a principle. And communications professionals need to stop pretending otherwise.

What we unpack:

🎯 The fairness theater - How both Disney and Google deploy "fair access" rhetoric while their actions prove customer experience is maybe priority #47

💰 When money isn't the issue - What happens when both sides have infinite resources and the dispute becomes purely about power and positioning

🏢 The customer care illusion - Why major corporations can't actually prioritize customers even when they claim to (and why that matters for how we communicate)

⚔️ Unprecedented competition dynamics - What changes when competitors are this massive, this resourced, and this committed to winning at any cost

📢 The PR strategy breakdown - How both sides are managing communications in this standoff and what that reveals about modern crisis comms

This isn't a negotiation failure—it's a glimpse into how corporate communications works when the stakes are existential. Both companies have unlimited legal budgets, massive PR teams, and sophisticated communications strategies. And yet consumers are still getting screwed.

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Ever wonder why everyone in PR talks about measurement but nobody seems to have cracked it? Linda Zebian, VP of Communications at Muck Rack, just said the quiet part out loud—and it's exactly what you need to hear right now.

In this episode of Smart In Public, the Katies sit down with someone who's uniquely positioned to call out the industry's blind spots: a comms leader who works at the company that literally builds the tools we're all supposed to be using to prove our worth. Linda's journey from traditional media to the tech side of communications gives her a perspective nobody else has—and she's not holding back.

Why this episode hits different:

📊 The measurement confession - Why PR's universal measurement challenge isn't getting solved by better dashboards (and what actually matters instead)

🤖 AI reality without the hype - How AI is actually changing PR measurement and strategy, not just automating press releases like everyone assumes

💰 The budget conversation nobody wants to have - Real talk about what it takes to convince leadership to invest in PR technology when "you can't measure PR anyway"

📰 Owned media vindication - Why building your own channels isn't just a nice-to-have anymore—it's your insurance policy against platform chaos

🎯 Stakeholder education secrets - How to explain PR's value to executives who think communications is just "getting our name out there"

The conversations worth stealing:

• On centralized data: Linda breaks down why scattered analytics across seventeen different platforms is killing your ability to prove impact—and what to do about it
• On AI agents: Forget AI writing your pitches. Linda's looking ahead to AI agents that actually change how PR professionals do strategic work (and why that's not as scary as it sounds)
• On traditional metrics: Why impressions and AVE are worse than useless—they're actively misleading your stakeholders about what communications actually delivers
• On the paywall problem: What happens when all quality journalism goes behind paywalls and your citations become invisible? Linda's thinking through this before the rest of us
• On authenticity: In a world where AI can generate infinite content, Linda argues that genuine trust and brand authenticity become your only real competitive advantages

Chapters

• 02:57 - Linda's Journey to Muck Rack
• 05:38 - The Evolution of Measurement in Comms
• 08:51 - AI's Impact on PR and Measurement
• 11:38 - The Future of Paywalls and Media Citations
• 14:43 - Preparing for 2026: Strategic Planning in Comms
• 17:54 - Budgeting for AI Tools in PR
• 20:42 - The Role of AI Agents in PR
• 23:37 - Embracing AI and Continuous Learning
• 29:34 - The Evolving Landscape of AI and PR
• 31:28 - Essential Tools for Effective Measurement
• 34:30 - Educating Stakeholders on Measurement Challenges
• 37:31 - The Importance of Technology in Measurement
• 38:44 - Telling Your Own Story in PR
• 40:24 - Maximizing Resources in a Tight Budget
• 42:22 - The Role of Owned Media in Brand Authority
• 44:30 - Shifting Budgets Towards Authenticity
• 48:30 - The Future of PR Measurement and Strategy

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In an industry obsessed with job-hopping, Jess Aptman​, Chief Communications Officer at Zocdoc​, has been at the company for 13 years and she's here to tell you why loyalty isn't a dirty word. In this refreshingly honest conversation with The Katies, Jess breaks down what it actually takes to build a communications function from survival mode to strategic powerhouse, and why the best career move might be doubling down instead of moving on.

This episode is a masterclass in (what some people might call) 'the unsexy stuff': resilience, institutional knowledge, ​trusting your gut when you want to take a bet on a brand, and the art of playing the long game. The truth is, these things really freaking matter when you're growing your own career to your own tune, and not based on what you see on LinkedIn. Jess also gets real about navigating company crises, evolving from reactive PR firefighting to strategic business partner, and why internal communications might be the most underrated lever for organizational success.

​The a-ha moments:

The longevity advantage - Why 13 years at one company makes Jess more valuable, not less (and what assumptions people get wrong about long tenure) 

Survival to growth mindset - The critical shift every communications leader needs to make when their company (and their function) moves past crisis mode 

Internal comms as infrastructure - How strategic internal communications shapes culture, builds trust, and actually influences business outcomes 

The AI reality check - What's actually changing in communications work and what human skills remain irreplaceable (spoiler: it's not what you think) 

The curiosity imperative - Why continuous learning and genuine expertise in your industry are becoming non-negotiable for comms professionals

Key insights you can steal:

• Context is everything: The power of institutional knowledge in a world that celebrates the new and shiny
• Check your own boxes: How to ​drop the promotion chasing mentality and make career choices based on your goals, not industry narratives about what success should look like
• Strategic evolution: The transformation from tactical execution to strategic influence—and how to make that shift
• Resilience as skill: Why the ability to navigate challenges and bounce back is your ultimate competitive advantage
• Trust building: How internal communications becomes the foundation for everything else a company tries to accomplish

Your career doesn't have to look like everyone else's LinkedIn highlights reel. Sometimes the most strategic move is going deep instead of going wide—building irreplaceable institutional knowledge and evolving with your organization instead of chasing the next big title.​ Thank you Jess for coming on the show!!!

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In the 50th episode of Smart in Public, The Katies unpack the fallout from Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff’s recent controversial comments and what it reveals about the modern relationship between leadership, communication, and reputation.

They explore how Benioff’s remarks led to public backlash and even a Salesforce Foundation board member’s resignation, raising deeper questions about how powerful CEOs perceive risk, influence, and accountability. The conversation examines the role of communications professionals in managing a founder’s public persona, balancing authenticity with responsibility, and navigating the increasingly politicized landscape where every statement becomes a brand statement.

From the difference between market power and reputation to the reality that “the mic is never off,” Katie and Katie share real-world insights on reputation as business insurance, the importance of internal influence for comms teams, and how leaders can build — or lose — trust in an instant.

Whether you’re a communications strategist, PR professional, or business leader, this episode offers a candid look at how to manage power, perception, and consequence in today’s high-visibility world.

🔑 Key Takeaways

• Marc Benioff’s comments highlight the reputational risks facing high-profile CEOs.
• Reputation management remains crucial — even for leaders with massive market power.
• The political landscape is reshaping how business leaders communicate.
• Communication professionals must navigate multiple audiences simultaneously.
• Strong internal relationships are key to influencing leadership decisions.
• Reputation is a form of business insurance that builds long-term trust.
• “Conquest over consequence” may work for some, but not for most.

🕒 Chapters

00:00 — Introduction and context
 02:59 — Marc Benioff’s controversial comments
 05:55 — The founder’s role in communication
 08:52 — Navigating audience expectations
 11:52 — The impact of reputation on business
 14:58 — The comms person’s dilemma
 17:58 — Conquest communications explained
 20:49 — Final thoughts
 26:00 — Navigating business challenges
 28:27 — Why reputation matters
 30:32 — The “CEO whisperer” effect
 36:26 — Hot takes on leadership and perception
 41:58 — Reflections on modern communication strategies

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Think climate communications is all doom, gloom, and corporate greenwashing? Corina Standiford, VP of Communications at Elemental Impact, is here to flip that narrative. In this episode of the Smart In Public podcast, Corina sits down with The Katies to break down why the biggest climate week ever happened this year—despite what the political headlines want you to believe—and what that means for every communications professional watching this space.

Why this episode hits different:

🌍 The narrative shift - Why leading with solutions instead of fear is the only climate comms strategy that works anymore

📉 The media landscape reality and what comms people can do when climate desks are shrinking

🎯 Creative storytelling secrets - How to communicate complex climate tech benefits to audiences who don't speak the lingo

🔥 The boldness imperative - Why playing it safe in climate communications is the riskiest strategy of all

The money insight: Climate Week 2024 was the largest ever, proving that while political winds shift, business momentum toward climate solutions is unstoppable. Smart communicators are learning to tell that story.

What you'll steal from this conversation:

• How to shift from fear-based to solution-oriented climate messaging
• Strategies for reaching diverse audiences who don't identify as "climate people"
• The evolving media playbook when traditional climate reporters are disappearing
• Sustainable event practices that actually minimize impact (not just look good on Instagram)
• Why global climate communications vary dramatically by region—and what that means for your strategy

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In this week's episode of Smart in Public, The Katies dissect Jimmy Kimmel's media controversy involving FCC threats + Disney's response strategy and Australia's Optus telecommunications crisis that left customers unable to call emergency services. This episode unpacks what happens when crisis management goes right—and catastrophically wrong.

What we covered for Jimmy

• The FCC's unprecedented response: How FCC Chairman Brendan Carr threatened ABC's broadcast licenses
• Disney's communication strategy: Why the entertainment giant's immediate capitulation to suspend Kimmel "indefinitely" revealed fundamental flaws in their crisis playbook and values as an organization
• Kimmel's comeback masterclass: How the comedian returned with emotional accountability, strategic praise for unexpected allies, to turn a cancellation attempt into 8 million YouTube views
• The censorship debate: Whether this represents a dangerous precedent for freedom of speech in comedy and media
• Corporate values vs. business interests: How Disney's regulatory vulnerabilities (ESPN/NFL deals) influenced their decision-making

What we covered for Optus

• The technical vs. reputational crisis: How operational failures in essential services create unique PR challenges
• Communication speed and transparency failures: Why Optus's response was too slow, too technical, and too disconnected from human impact
• Stakeholder prioritization mistakes: The fatal error of not immediately addressing customer safety concerns
• Regulatory complications: How government oversight changes crisis communication strategies
• The humanity deficit: Why technical explanations without empathy destroy public trust
• Rebuilding trust: The long road ahead for companies that fail during public safety emergencies

Episode Chapters & Timeline

• 05:59 - Jimmy Kimmel's controversial comments breakdown
• 08:48 - The role of comedy in political discourse analysis
• 11:32 - Escalation timeline and media response
• 14:34 - Disney's decision and corporate values examination
• 17:31 - The slippery slope of censorship debate
• 20:35 - Public reaction and media influence
• 23:37 - Jimmy Kimmel situation conclusion
• 29:19 - Viewer reactions and industry response
• 30:06 - Jimmy Kimmel's return: communications strategy analysis
• 32:17 - Optus crisis case study begins
• 36:58 - Emergency services fallout and accountability
• 43:02 - Humanity in corporate communication discussion
• 49:25 - Rebuilding trust: the path forward for Optus

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