Some Things Considered with Sean Murphy

Today on STC, I’m joined by someone I’ve had the pleasure of working with (and learning from) for years: Gregg Wilhelm, Director of Mason Creative Writing, co-founder of Watershed Lit, and long-time literary advocate and publishing pro. Gregg’s experience spans every corner of the literary world—from launching presses to running CityLit, mentoring students, and staying in the fray as the arts face new pressures and provocations.

In this conversation, we go deep on:

* The state of MFA programs and the future of English majors

* Why fewer students are reading (and how to bring them back)

* The collapse of public arts funding and what can (or can’t) replace it

* How to maintain faith and focus when AI, apathy, and anti-humanities sentiment threaten to flatten everything we care about

* The power of literary citizenship—not just as a concept, but as a lifeline for community and creative survival

I’ve always admired Gregg for his tireless advocacy, his unshakable belief in writers and teachers, and his realism that never tips into resignation. He’s someone who doesn’t just talk about “resistance,” he builds platforms, creates programs, and helps train the next generation of literary citizens.

This episode is especially relevant for:

* Writing students and aspiring educators

* Anyone navigating the literary world post-Covid / mid-AI

* Advocates trying to make sense of a shrinking public square for the arts

* Listeners who want to be reminded why stories still matter—and how we can keep telling them, even now

If you dig it, please share with a teacher, student, or friend trying to do the good work.

ABOUT GREGG WILHELM

Instagram: @greggwilhelmFacebook: Gregg WilhelmLinkedIn: Gregg WilhelmWebsite: greggwilhelm.comCityLit Project: @citylitproject

ABOUT SOME THINGS CONSIDERED

Award-winning author Sean Murphy in conversation with creative thinkers, spanning the literary, music, art, politics, and tech industries. As a cultural critic, professor, founder of a literary non-profit, Sean is always looking to explore and celebrate the ways Story is integral to how we define ourselves, as artists and human beings. This Substack newsletter and weekly podcast peels back the layers of how creativity works, why it matters, how our most brilliant minds achieve mastery. Join us to explore how our most successful and inspired storytellers engage by discussing craft, routines, brand, and mostly through authentic and honest expression.

ABOUT HOST SEAN MURPHY

Website: seanmurphy.netSubstack: seanmurphy.liveTwitter: @bullmurphInstagram: @bullmurphFacebook: facebook.com/AuthorSeanMurphyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sean-murphy-4986b41

Today’s guest is the acclaimed Ethiopian American novelist and writer Dinaw Mengestu, whose award-winning work has appeared in Harper’s Magazine, The Wall Street Journal, and many other outlets. He currently directs the Written Arts program at Bard College and has been recognized as a MacArthur Fellow among numerous other honors.

I first encountered Dinaw at a recent event hosted by George Mason’s Cheuse Center—shout out to my alma mater!—where his insights lingered long after the talk. His artistry is compelling, but I was especially drawn to his reflections on two urgent themes: masculinity and immigration, and their intersection with art and politics in 2025.

We began by grappling with a pressing question: What use is art, especially novels, in an increasingly authoritarian climate? For me, the answer is clear—art becomes more vital than ever as a means to challenge, to bear witness, and to connect.

Dinaw’s work offers a nuanced exploration of human relationships and identity that transcends national boundaries. Where American novels often fixate on the nation, his stories probe the fragile balances that shape all our lives. In particular, we talked about how immigration narratives are not just political flashpoints but deeply human stories filled with complexity, survival, and sometimes silence.

His novel Someone Like Us exemplifies this approach, revealing how immigrant lives are collections of stories—some fabricated for survival, some never told—that demand empathy and deeper understanding.

We also tackled masculinity, a loaded and often misunderstood topic. Dinaw shared his views on male anger and violence as social constructs, shaped by cultural narratives that influence how identity and behavior are formed—and how those narratives show up in both fiction and media.

In this, our conversation circled back to the power of storytelling itself: how art can push back against reductive or toxic narratives by offering more authentic, nuanced perspectives. This is, I argued, a crucial form of resistance and a pathway to more peaceful social discourse.

We also touched on the challenges of engaging younger generations, especially in a world where reading is often seen as less appealing. Dinaw and I agreed on the importance of meeting readers where they are, connecting through culture and technology, and gently drawing them into the broader world of literature.

This wide-ranging conversation offers a lot for anyone interested in how art, identity, and politics intersect today—and why stories matter more than ever.

ABOUT DINAW MENGESTU

Facebook: Dinaw MengestuX (formerly Twitter): @dinawmengestuInstagram: @dinaw_mengestu

ABOUT SOME THINGS CONSIDERED

Award-winning author Sean Murphy in conversation with creative thinkers, spanning the literary, music, art, politics, and tech industries. As a cultural critic, professor, founder of a literary non-profit, Sean is always looking to explore and celebrate the ways Story is integral to how we define ourselves, as artists and human beings. This Substack newsletter and weekly podcast peels back the layers of how creativity works, why it matters, how our most brilliant minds achieve mastery. Join us to explore how our most successful and inspired storytellers engage by discussing craft, routines, brand, and mostly through authentic and honest expression.

ABOUT HOST SEAN MURPHY

Website: seanmurphy.netSubstack: seanmurphy.liveTwitter: @bullmurphInstagram: @bullmurphFacebook: facebook.com/AuthorSeanMurphyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sean-murphy-4986b41

This week, I was delighted to be joined by Emma Sarappo, senior associate editor at The Atlantic, where she writes and commissions coverage on books, poetry, and literary culture. Formerly the arts editor at Washington City Paper, Emma’s work has also appeared in Preservation, Pacific Standard, Washingtonian, The Bitter Southerner, and beyond.

In other words: she’s the real deal, and she’s got the literary chops to prove it.

In this wide-ranging and lively conversation, we dug into everything from The Atlantic's ambitious recent packages on The Best American Novels of the 20th Century and The Best American Poetry of the 21st Century, to the state of critical discourse, comics, canons, and the eternal (and eternally tricky) question: what makes a work “great”?

Topics We Covered

* The process behind curating landmark literary lists for The Atlantic

* How lists can fuel discovery, conversation, and canon expansion

* Why list-making is both a celebration and a provocation

* Which classic (and obscure) American novels Emma is willing to throw down for

* What poetry can do in an era of fractured attention and endless noise

* Underground comics and their critical future

* How to respond to the common complaint: “young people don’t read anymore”

Favorite Moments & Takeaways

Emma reminded me that serious criticism isn’t about gatekeeping; it’s about stewardship. It’s about introducing work to new audiences, reintroducing overlooked gems, and advocating for voices who deserve more space in the conversation.

We also talked about how poetry might just be the perfect literary form for 2025—compressed, emotional, deeply portable, and ideal for those of us trying to carve clarity out of chaos.

If you’re a writer, teacher, editor, or simply a passionate reader, this is an episode that will feed your curiosity and remind you why we keep returning to stories—even when the world seems hellbent on scrolling past them.

Thanks, as ever, for listening and supporting STC. More conversations soon.

ABOUT EMMA SARAPPO

Personal Website: emmasarappo.comLinkedIn: Emma SarappoBluesky: @emmasarappo.bsky.socialInstagram: @emmasarappo

ABOUT SOME THINGS CONSIDERED

Award-winning author Sean Murphy in conversation with creative thinkers, spanning the literary, music, art, politics, and tech industries. As a cultural critic, professor, founder of a literary non-profit, Sean is always looking to explore and celebrate the ways Story is integral to how we define ourselves, as artists and human beings. This Substack newsletter and weekly podcast peels back the layers of how creativity works, why it matters, how our most brilliant minds achieve mastery. Join us to explore how our most successful and inspired storytellers engage by discussing craft, routines, brand, and mostly through authentic and honest expression.

ABOUT HOST SEAN MURPHY

Website: seanmurphy.netSubstack: seanmurphy.liveTwitter: @bullmurphInstagram: @bullmurphFacebook: facebook.com/AuthorSeanMurphyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sean-murphy-4986b41

We’re back. And I can’t think of a better or more necessary guest to kick off Season 4 of STC than the poet Richard Blanco.

If you’ve been reading or listening to me for any length of time, you know I believe in the power of storytelling—not only to entertain or inspire, but to bear witness, raise the stakes, and push the culture forward. That’s why this conversation means so much to me, and why I hope you’ll make time for it.

Richard Blanco was selected by President Obama as the fifth inaugural poet in U.S. history—the youngest, the first Latinx, the first openly gay person, and the first immigrant to serve in that role. Last year, he was awarded the National Humanities Medal by President Biden. In addition to being a deeply gifted writer and public intellectual, he’s also an educator, an advocate, and one of the most thoughtful people I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with.

We cover a lot in this episode. Art and activism, yes—but also attention and agency. We talk about the challenges of writing political poetry that is also beautiful, personal, and true. We talk about the pressure of platform, what it means to have a public voice in a fractured nation, and how to resist despair in a time when cruelty and confusion seem to have the upper hand.

Among the many gems:

* How to avoid cynicism by doubling down on your humanity

* What James Baldwin meant when he said “The role of the artist is the same as the role of the lover…”

* Why poetry, more than ever, is the form we need now

* The moral weight and potential of witness in the 21st century

We also talk craft, classroom dynamics, and why a poem can sometimes reach people in ways even the best essay or op-ed can’t. Richard shares insights into his own process and reads from How to Love a Country and Homeland of My Body, two collections I consider essential texts for this moment.

And yes—we talk about AI, the future of storytelling, and why it’s no coincidence that art comes under attack when authoritarianism gains traction.

A Personal Note

It’s hard not to feel overwhelmed right now. The headlines. The feed. The rising tide of bad faith and short attention spans. I sometimes wonder if art can still matter in the face of so much noise and nihilism.

This conversation reminded me that the answer is: yes, it can—and it must.

ABOUT RICHARD BLANCO

Instagram: @poetrichardblanco Facebook: Richard Blanco PoetryX (formerly Twitter): @rblancopoetWebsite: richard-blanco.com

ABOUT SOME THINGS CONSIDERED

Award-winning author Sean Murphy in conversation with creative thinkers, spanning the literary, music, art, politics, and tech industries. As a cultural critic, professor, founder of a literary non-profit, Sean is always looking to explore and celebrate the ways Story is integral to how we define ourselves, as artists and human beings. This Substack newsletter and weekly podcast peels back the layers of how creativity works, why it matters, how our most brilliant minds achieve mastery. Join us to explore how our most successful and inspired storytellers engage by discussing craft, routines, brand, and mostly through authentic and honest expression.

ABOUT HOST SEAN MURPHY

Website: seanmurphy.netSubstack: seanmurphy.liveTwitter: @bullmurphInstagram: @bullmurphFacebook: facebook.com/AuthorSeanMurphyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sean-murphy-4986b41

Season 3 of Some Things Considered wrapped up a remarkable run that continued to peel back the layers of how creativity works—from the personal routines and philosophies of master storytellers to the broader cultural currents shaping art and expression in America today.

Hosted by award-winning author and cultural critic Sean Murphy, Some Things Considered remained a weekly podcast and Substack newsletter that went deep with creative minds across literature, music, art, politics, and tech. These weren’t just interviews—they were immersive conversations about what drives creativity, why story matters, and how our most inspired thinkers turn vision into impact.

This past season, Sean dove deeper into the currents shaping our creative, cultural, and political landscapes with a fresh lineup of writers, thinkers, musicians, critics, and change-makers.

* From the dystopian rise of tech oligarchs to the future of political messaging, investigative journalist Jacob Silverman opens the season with a wide-ranging conversation on the post-2024 election climate, the influence of crypto billionaires, and why Democrats keep missing the messaging memo.

* Legendary jazz pianist and thinker Matthew Shipp explores authenticity, artistic integrity, and how NYC’s underground scene shaped a generation of innovators. This episode is a masterclass in how to live—and think—creatively.

* Ed Simon, English professor and Belt Magazine editor, unpacks the myth of the Great American Novel and how literature continues to challenge, reflect, and reshape American democracy.

* Cultural critic and iconoclast Jessa Crispin holds nothing back, tackling class, feminism, media, and the uneasy politics of visibility in a chaotic age. It's a sharp, insightful look at narrative power and building meaningful communities.

* Leeya Mehta and Bill Miller reflect on a decade of the Alan Cheuse International Writers Center, the role of the literary arts in global dialogue, and why nurturing creativity matters now more than ever.

* Jason Zinoman, NYT critic and comedy chronicler, joins to unpack how self-promotion is reshaping art itself—and how comedians are navigating the increasingly blurred line between craft and content.

* Will Boast digs into literary indigestion—literally—with a brilliant discussion on bodily woes, con artists, and the literary roots of discomfort. It’s funny, unsettling, and deeply researched.

* Ryan Flahive, host of Climate Changers, offers a timely reflection on climate storytelling, narrative-driven activism, and the challenges of making meaning in a media-saturated world.

* Dr. Shawn DuBravac, economist and futurist, closes the season with a big-picture look at how emerging tech—AI in particular—is reshaping our future. He breaks down complex ideas with clarity and heart.

* Paula Whyman, author and naturalist, shares the personal and political layers of her new memoir—an immersive journey through nature, identity, and belonging. She reflects on writing, teaching, and the solace found in wild places.

Season 3 showed just how much story matters—and how much there is still to explore.

If you enjoyed the show, I hope you’ll stick around: Some Things Considered is ready to roll out Season 4 next week, starting Tuesday, July 22nd. See you then!

Listen and subscribe at seanmurphy.live.

Today’s guest is Paula Whyman, author of the collection You May See a Stranger, which received a starred review in Publishers Weekly. Her new book Bad Naturalist: One Woman’s Ecological Education on a Wild Virginia Mountaintop is a blend of memoir, natural history, and conservation science. Her writing has appeared in myriad outlets, and she was co-founder and editor in chief of the literary journal Scoundrel Time. Paula and I discuss the story behind the story of her new memoir, and her real time training as a contemporary naturalist. Her book, filled with vivid descriptions of plants, insects, and one woman’s battle/love affair with seemingly everything that grows, flies, lives, and dies, is highly recommended, perhaps especially for anyone looking for a positive distraction from the chaotic “inner space” of today’s sociopolitical reality. I learned a great deal about everything from invasive species to non-native plants, all of which seem to mirror present discussions about immigration, identity, and ownership. Paula is not only a wonderful writer, but patient and passionate tour guide, and her words will resonate with outdoor enthusiasts and those with less green thumbs. We also talked about craft, teaching, the rewards and burdens of running a literary magazine, the solace of nature and the inspiration of one’s imagination. Inevitably, we also touched on the importance of community and the responsibility of being a good literary citizen.

ABOUT PAULA WHYMAN

Learn more about Paula’s work at https://paulawhyman.com

ABOUT SOME THINGS CONSIDERED

Award-winning author Sean Murphy in conversation with creative thinkers, spanning the literary, music, art, politics, and tech industries. As a cultural critic, professor, founder of a literary non-profit, Sean is always looking to explore and celebrate the ways Story is integral to how we define ourselves, as artists and human beings. This Substack newsletter and weekly podcast peels back the layers of how creativity works, why it matters, how our most brilliant minds achieve mastery. Join us to explore how our most successful and inspired storytellers engage by discussing craft, routines, brand, and mostly through authentic and honest expression.

ABOUT HOST SEAN MURPHY

Website: seanmurphy.netSubstack: seanmurphy.liveTwitter: @bullmurphInstagram: @bullmurphFacebook: facebook.com/AuthorSeanMurphyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sean-murphy-4986b41

Today’s guest is my longtime friend and colleague, Dr. Shawn DuBravac. Shawn is author of the New York Times bestseller Digital Destiny: How the New Age of Data Will Transform the Way We Work, Live, and Communicate. An economist, futurist, tech analyst, and public speaker, Shawn has always been my go-to guy when I want to better understand emerging technologies, or make necessary connections between what’s happening today to understand—and predict—what might happen tomorrow. Shawn is one of the most intelligent, curious, and charismatic people I know, and I’ve seldom encountered anyone who can talk effortlessly about complex issues in such a conversational, accessible way. This, of course, is a tremendous skill, and Shawn has been polishing his portfolio for decades. We, inevitably, get into the implications of AI, why our culture typically fears new innovations before embracing them, and how technology will impact everything from the classroom to the creative world. If you are really into tech or if you are looking for someone who can help make sense of a world that is quite literally changing, fast, each day, I can’t recommend anyone more highly than Dr. DuBravac!

ABOUT SHAWN DUBRAVAC

Learn more about Shawn DuBravac at https://shawndubravac.com

Twitter: @shawndubravac

ABOUT SOME THINGS CONSIDERED

Award-winning author Sean Murphy in conversation with creative thinkers, spanning the literary, music, art, politics, and tech industries. As a cultural critic, professor, founder of a literary non-profit, Sean is always looking to explore and celebrate the ways Story is integral to how we define ourselves, as artists and human beings. This Substack newsletter and weekly podcast peels back the layers of how creativity works, why it matters, how our most brilliant minds achieve mastery. Join us to explore how our most successful and inspired storytellers engage by discussing craft, routines, brand, and mostly through authentic and honest expression.

ABOUT HOST SEAN MURPHY

Website: seanmurphy.netSubstack: seanmurphy.liveTwitter: @bullmurphInstagram: @bullmurphFacebook: facebook.com/AuthorSeanMurphyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sean-murphy-4986b41

Today’s guest is Ryan Flahive, an entrepreneur, podcaster, and Learning Technology & Publishing Executive with deep experience in higher education, workforce development, and social impact. He is currently producer and host of CLIMATE CHANGERS, a podcast featuring interviews with scientists, activists, and other leaders. Ryan, and this conversation scarcely scratches the surface, has a long, varied, successful career, and he’s the rare individual who combines passion with expertise, and success has followed him from adventure to adventure. We talked about his amazing work and mission, as well as the necessity of wearing many hats in the creative realm. Ryan, like most influencers, wears multiple hats, and shares with me a conviction that effective narrative is the essential ingredient to telling good stories. We get into the nitty gritty of what makes for meaningful activism, and how spreading awareness about the climate is particularly challenging since there’s well-funded players trying 24/7 to remove all considerations that impact profits. Ryan frankly discusses the challenges, rewards, and opportunities of his work, and his belief in community building is profoundly inspiring. Whether you’re a writer, a non-profit employee, or entrepreneur, Ryan is an invaluable guide.

ABOUT RYAN FLAHIVE

Learn more about Ryan at https://ryanflahive.com

ABOUT SOME THINGS CONSIDERED

Award-winning author Sean Murphy in conversation with creative thinkers, spanning the literary, music, art, politics, and tech industries. As a cultural critic, professor, founder of a literary non-profit, Sean is always looking to explore and celebrate the ways Story is integral to how we define ourselves, as artists and human beings. This Substack newsletter and weekly podcast peels back the layers of how creativity works, why it matters, how our most brilliant minds achieve mastery. Join us to explore how our most successful and inspired storytellers engage by discussing craft, routines, brand, and mostly through authentic and honest expression.

ABOUT HOST SEAN MURPHY

Website: seanmurphy.netSubstack: seanmurphy.liveTwitter: @bullmurphInstagram: @bullmurphFacebook: facebook.com/AuthorSeanMurphyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sean-murphy-4986b41

Today’s guest is Will Boast, author of a story collection, Power Ballads, a memoir, Epilogue, and a novel, Daphne. His work has appeared in The New York Times Magazine, The New Republic, and The Guardian, among others. I love Will’s writing and was truly blown away by his recent piece in the Virginia Quarterly Review, “From the Gut: A Literary History of Indigestion.” This is long-form journalism at its best: informative, deeply researched, often amusing, at times disturbing, and a reminder that so many human beings, including beloved authors ranging from Voltaire to Twain, Kafka and Beckett, have all had tummy issues. As a fellow author who can’t boast of having a stomach of steel, I enjoyed comparing notes with Will, and appreciated his candid stories of his own adventures with food, writing, and a moody constitution. It was especially relevant to talk through the history of con artists and hucksters, particularly when the clownish RFK Jr. has inexplicably become America’s Secretary of Health and Human Services. We also, inevitably, talked craft, the lit industry, technology, and influences. If this conversation is a gateway introduction to the world of Will Boast, I’m pleased, and hope you’ll share his work widely.

ABOUT WILL BOAST

Learn more about Will at https://www.willboast.org

Twitter: @willboast

ABOUT SOME THINGS CONSIDERED

Award-winning author Sean Murphy in conversation with creative thinkers, spanning the literary, music, art, politics, and tech industries. As a cultural critic, professor, founder of a literary non-profit, Sean is always looking to explore and celebrate the ways Story is integral to how we define ourselves, as artists and human beings. This Substack newsletter and weekly podcast peels back the layers of how creativity works, why it matters, how our most brilliant minds achieve mastery. Join us to explore how our most successful and inspired storytellers engage by discussing craft, routines, brand, and mostly through authentic and honest expression.

ABOUT HOST SEAN MURPHY

Website: seanmurphy.netSubstack: seanmurphy.liveTwitter: @bullmurphInstagram: @bullmurphFacebook: facebook.com/AuthorSeanMurphyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sean-murphy-4986b41

Today’s guest is Jason Zinoman, a critic and author of Shock Value and Letterman: The Last Giant of Late Night. He’s currently critic at large for the Culture section of the New York Times and writes a column about comedy. Jason became a blinking red light on my radar courtesy of his recent piece “For Comics, Honing Jokes Has Taken a Back Seat to Marketing. That’s Not Good.” Jason’s perceptive take confirmed a phenomenon I’ve both read a great deal about and experienced personally: that is, any artist, in today’s environment, is obliged to focus an increasing amount of time on promotion and PR. We explore the ways this might help the artist but hinder the art, and both how and why some creatives are better at this than others. Does it make sense to get professional help? Was it easier in the 20th Century? Are there silver linings to putting oneself more aggressively into the public sphere? These are some of the questions we tackle, all leading up to the current state of “cancel culture” and its implications, especially in stand-up comedy. Jason is super informed and full of valuable insights, and as you’ll see it was my extreme pleasure to speak with him.

MORE FROM JASON ZINOMAN

Read New York Times articles by Jason:

https://www.nytimes.com/by/jason-zinoman

ABOUT SOME THINGS CONSIDERED

Award-winning author Sean Murphy in conversation with creative thinkers, spanning the literary, music, art, politics, and tech industries. As a cultural critic, professor, founder of a literary non-profit, Sean is always looking to explore and celebrate the ways Story is integral to how we define ourselves, as artists and human beings. This Substack newsletter and weekly podcast peels back the layers of how creativity works, why it matters, how our most brilliant minds achieve mastery. Join us to explore how our most successful and inspired storytellers engage by discussing craft, routines, brand, and mostly through authentic and honest expression.

ABOUT HOST SEAN MURPHY

Website: seanmurphy.netSubstack: seanmurphy.liveTwitter: @bullmurphInstagram: @bullmurphFacebook: facebook.com/AuthorSeanMurphyLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sean-murphy-4986b41