Spatial Attraction

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Sonya Simmonds joins Kursty to discuss how to meaningfully bring out your brand through workplace and office design. They explore how office design impacts employee morale, productivity, and work ethic, why the ‘wow factor’ of designing office spaces shouldn’t stop at gimmicks and fragmented Instagramable spots, and Spotify’s Work From Anywhere program that allows staff to choose between a ‘home mix’ and an ‘office mix’ work experience.

Sonya Simmonds is an interior architect with 20 years of experience and the Head of Workplace Innovation & Design at Spotify. 

“It’s also really strange to me that people say 'I don’t care what it’s like. I really don’t care what the office is like or this building is like' and I’m thinking, well you’re going to spend a lot of time in it.”

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Timestamps

[00:25] Episode overview: designing spaces, designing for brand cultures, co-creation, working from anywhere, and more…
[01:46] Who is Sonya Simmonds?
[03:33] Visiting the Nike store in New York and Working at Bloomberg in London (experiential design).
[10:51] How big is Spotify? How many offices does Spotify have? 
[12:24] How do you choose an office building and how do you use co-creation to localize it?
[15:55] Flexibility, wellbeing, and working from anywhere - how they affect workplace design 
[22:24] Home mix vs. office mix: planning based on people’s preferences
[24:19] Storytelling and communicating design updates with the whole team (how and why to make people care about design decisions).
[29:38] How office design brings out the brand (and a deep dive into Spotify’s Heart and Soul room)
[40:09] Instagrammable office spaces and office spaces that employees actually love being in

4 Key Takeaways

1. One way to localise an office building is to invite local artists and local staff to co-create the look and feel of it with you. You should also ask members of the local office what they want to define what they wanted to express with the office. 
2. Explaining your design choices to the wider body of employees can help the whole team understand why design decisions are made the way they’re made. For example, if you chose not to occupy a building in an area that displaces the local population - this strengthens your brand values and shows staff that you are serious about your convictions.  It also helps the team become more proud of the offices they inhabit. 
3. The migration back to the office is intimidating and stressful. Your workplace design can help people ease that stress. 
4. Bringing your brand out in the design of your workplace isn't about purely aesthetic elements or fun gimmicks, the brand has to be deeply embedded in the functionality of the space as well. 

Links 

Connect with Sonya Simmonds: LinkedIn 

Connect with Kursty Groves: LinkedIn | Twitter | Ask a question or pitch an idea: [email protected] 

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Support the show

Spatial Attraction is written, produced, and hosted by Kursty Groves.

Original music and sound production by Lee Golledge.

For episodes and updates, visit https://kurstygroves.com/podcast/ - and follow Spatial Attraction on LinkedIn and Instagram.

To suggest a theme or guest, email [email protected].

Send us Fan Mail

In the final part of this series, listen in to the last two hot topic discussions from the LEGO workplace symposium on (1) designing spaces and (2) orchestrating purposeful meetings.

During the discussion on designing office spaces, we discuss how to create spaces that break traditional norms and influence positive behaviours. You’ll discover insights on whether activity-based office space design is effective, why one size fits no one when it comes to space design, how to interrupt traditional views of what the office should be like, and how to ask the right questions before redesigning your office space, and which metrics actually matter in office usage.

When we move on to the discussion on purposeful meetings, you’ll tune into a conversation that critiques meetings as an overused problem-solving tool and discover a way to frame the purpose of meetings in order to host and attend them more intentionally. We also explore the behaviours we need to unlearn and the way technology must change to adapt to the new age of meetings.

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Timestamps
[00:16] Episode overview
[00:43] Hot topic discussion(3/4): Designing spaces
[00:47] Spaces that serve a dual function
[06:57] Should you have activity-based spaces?
[11:02] Asking the right questions to discover an ideal space design. 
[17:58] Should you measure space usage data?
[22:04] Hot topic discussion(4/4): How to Orchestrate Purposeful Meetings
[22:10] Meetings and the fear of missing out
[24:52] How hybrid meetings can be disruptive for people joining remotely
[25:51] What goes wrong in workshopping, idea co-creation, and engagement in remote meetings.
[31:03] How often do we need to travel for work, really?
[31:48] Framing a purpose for meetings: Being thoughtful about the different types of meetings we conduct.
[34:44] Relearning our meeting behaviours: Do we need meetings? What meetings can we skip?
[40:04] How to activate better meetings through technology?   

3 Key Takeaways 

1. If you ask your team what they need from a space, they will answer you based on the paradigms they already know and have internalized. The better question to ask is “what do you want to do” and design spaces based on the needs of the primary tasks rather than based on traditional paradigms of what a workplace should look like. 
2. Hybrid meetings can be a terrible experience for people joining remotely. For example, activities happening in the room like eating and drinking can interfere with the sound quality and end up leaving the remote attendants confused about what is going on in the meeting. Technology hasn’t kept up with our new behaviours. 
3. We need to be more thoughtful about what type of meeting each meeting is: transactional? Relationship building? Output-oriented? Project check-in? Ideation? We need to re-learn our meeting behaviours to be more intentional. We need to make sure we only attend meetings in a way that brings real value, rather than merely out of habit. 

Links 

The Workplace Leader Podcast

Connect with Kursty Groves: LinkedIn | Twitter | Ask a question or pitch an idea: [email protected] 

Support the show

Support the show

Spatial Attraction is written, produced, and hosted by Kursty Groves.

Original music and sound production by Lee Golledge.

For episodes and updates, visit https://kurstygroves.com/podcast/ - and follow Spatial Attraction on LinkedIn and Instagram.

To suggest a theme or guest, email [email protected].

Send us Fan Mail

Be a fly on the wall in two hot topic discussions that took place in the LEGO Workplace Symposium: 

1. What is the purpose of the workplace? 
2. Hybrid headaches over the past year 

You’ll listen in on groups of executives from many large companies like Microsoft, Netflix, Unilever, Spotify, Ikea, and Booking.com discuss a range of topics about finding a compelling purpose for returning to the office and how to minimize the speedbumps that come with hybrid work. 

A recurrent theme within the discussions is that hybrid work and returning to the office is forcing companies to be more intentional with what in-person work looks and feels like.  

Tune in to reflect on the many different ideas being thrown around the room answering the question: how can we make the workplace work harder for us? You’ll also hear interesting ideas about How to recreate on-site experiences as off-site experiences. 

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Timestamps

[00:30] Hot topic discussion(1/4): What is the purpose of the workplace? What is our end goal? 

[01:02] Is the purpose of hybrid work to provide flexibility or to cut costs?

[06:07] Have people always wanted hybrid work or do they want it because of the pandemic?

[09:06] How hybrid work changes the face of society (and the responsibility that comes with it)

[10:07] “We build culture in the office” is a weak purpose for in-person work (how to be deliberate with why we meet in person)

[12:10] Consequences of not having a hybrid option

[17:47] “Build the experience you want to be part of, and they will come”

[19:43] The risk of hybrid work and the shifting power dynamic 

[23:08] How hybridity is affecting retail businesses

[25:33] Hot topic discussion (2/4): Hybrid headaches

[26:50] Lessons from experimenting with hybrid over the past year  

[30:03] How remote work steals your “reclaimed” time

[31:46] Why do some people never want to return to the office again?  

[34:13] How do we recreate the coffee machine connection in hybrid mode?

[38:36] Why do people work where they work? 

[42:01] Will we always feel like a little dot on the screen in remote meetings? 

5 Key Takeaways 

1. If there is a clear purpose explaining why work needs to be in-person, hybrid, or remote - it’s much easier to get the buy-in of your team to comply with the rules. You have to give people something to believe in. 
2. People have likely always wanted the flexibility that hybrid work offers. However, the pandemic empowered them to seek what they want. 
3. Having beautiful offices is not a compelling enough reason for people to want to return to the office. You have to think of what experience they want to be a part of. Think of it this way: what kind of experience will make people feel the urge to return to the office?
4. When mandating a specific number of days per week for in-person work, your reasoning has to be grounded in data or else people will see through it. If you expect people to come into the office 3 out of 5 days, you’ll have to explain why it’s 3 and 2 or why it’s 3 and not 4. 
5. The power dynamic between employees and their employers is shifting. People have more choices and feel more empowered now. The shifting power dynamic poses a major risk for employers who don’t adapt. 

Links
The Workplace Leader Podcast
Connect with Kursty Groves: LinkedIn | Twitter | Ask a question or pitch an idea: [email protected]

Support the show

Spatial Attraction is written, produced, and hosted by Kursty Groves.

Original music and sound production by Lee Golledge.

For episodes and updates, visit https://kurstygroves.com/podcast/ - and follow Spatial Attraction on LinkedIn and Instagram.

To suggest a theme or guest, email [email protected].

Send us Fan Mail

In the first part of this three-part special, Kursty and Sabine recap their experience at the LEGO Workplace Symposium in Billund, Denmark. The symposium focused on key issues in workplace design and experience. It was organized by the Ways of Working team and was attended by several corporate giants including Microsoft, Netflix, Unilever, Spotify, Ikea, and Booking.com.

Kursty and Sabine share what it was like to visit LEGO’s brand new campus for the first time, how the symposium was structured, and the different topics that were brought up for discussion. They even share unusual informal events that went on - like a cookout! 

In fact, it is those informal moments that were a game-changer during the event. They helped cultivate an atmosphere of trust making people feel that they can let their guards down, confide in one another, and have deeper conversations in a safe environment. 

So, if you’re curious about how work and play merge in a conference setting - this episode will tell you how the champions of play thoughtfully design an experience like this. 

“For the whole 3 days so much thought was put into the informal parts and I feel those parts were actually the crucial elements to get everybody comfortable.” - Sabine Ehm

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Timestamps

[00:30] Podcast field trip: what went on in the LEGO Workplace Symposium? 

[02:17] First impressions of the brand new LEGO campus in Billund, Denmark

[04:25] Who was at the LEGO Workplace Symposium 2022?

[06:42] How the informal aspects of the symposium made the biggest difference

[08:50] What was in the LEGO goodie bags? 

[09:42] Why does LEGO have a space for ex-employees in their headquarters? 

[12:46] What went on throughout the day? What hot topics were discussed?

Here are the hot topics we’ll be discussing in parts 2 and 3 of this special: 

• Why do we do hybrid work? 
• What’s wrong with hybrid work? 
• How do you assign space without assigning space? 
• What are purposeful meanings really like? 

You won’t want to miss these episodes. 

Links 

The Workplace Leader Podcast

Connect with Kursty Groves: LinkedIn | Twitter | Ask a question or pitch an idea: [email protected] 

Support the show

Support the show

Spatial Attraction is written, produced, and hosted by Kursty Groves.

Original music and sound production by Lee Golledge.

For episodes and updates, visit https://kurstygroves.com/podcast/ - and follow Spatial Attraction on LinkedIn and Instagram.

To suggest a theme or guest, email [email protected].

Send us Fan Mail

Scott Witthoft joins Kursty to discuss how we are becoming more intentional with how we use and divide physical and digital spaces. They explore many thought-provoking questions like: why do some things work in some places and not work in others? Are in-person meetings and activities catalysts for progress? And why are some office spaces abandoned?

Scott and Kursty explore how the pandemic helped us refine our improvisational skills; we've effectively become designers who create experiences between physical and digital spaces and now have to be more intentional about how we show up digitally versus physically and what we do in each space. 

Scott Witthoft is an educator, designer, and author. He is a co-designer of Stanford University’s d.school’s space and the author of Make Space. He is currently an Associate Professor of Practice at the University of Texas at Austin School of Design.

“These virtual tools are amazing tools that I can now use in lots of different ways and I can now be intentional about what it means to be in-person when I’m in-person” - Scott Witthoft

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Timestamps

[00:52] Who is Scott Witthoft (and episode overview)? 

[06:09] What is Scott currently working on? 

[08:50] Are successful solutions context-agnostic?

[12:25] Building spaces that trigger specific behaviours. 

[20:00] Abandoned spaces and what happens when people use new spaces. 

[28:15] How remote work can create more meaningful in-person meetings. 

[35:44] Everyone is a designer juggling physical and digital spaces

[44:31] Do in-person activities catalyse progress? 

[46:18] Redesigning rituals for what it means to be with people

4 Key Takeaways

1. If something works in one context, there is no guarantee that the same solution would work in a different context. You can’t just lift and shift. You can use successful solutions as prototypes rather than blindly implementing them without adjusting them for context.
2. Environments have to support the goal or behaviour you want to achieve. You have to ask yourself, “What behaviour am I trying to encourage?” and build a space that triggers that behaviour.
3. Designing spaces goes way beyond the physical. You are not just designing to trigger certain behaviours, but designing the invitation for people to use the space a certain way. 
4. Our numerous constraints over the past few years have allowed us to explore and develop our improvisational qualities. 

Links 

Make Space: How to Set the Stage for Creative Collaboration by Scott Witthoft and Scott Doorley

This Is a Prototype: The Curious Craft of Exploring New Ideas by Scott Witthoft and Stanford d.school

Connect with Scott Witthoft: Twitter 

Connect with Kursty Groves: LinkedIn | Twitter | Ask a question or pitch an idea: [email protected] 

Support the show

Support the show

Spatial Attraction is written, produced, and hosted by Kursty Groves.

Original music and sound production by Lee Golledge.

For episodes and updates, visit https://kurstygroves.com/podcast/ - and follow Spatial Attraction on LinkedIn and Instagram.

To suggest a theme or guest, email [email protected].

Send us Fan Mail

Jason Fried joins Kursty to share wisdom on how he runs a fully remote company by simplifying things and focusing on what matters. They explore where deep work happens, how to create space for it, why rigid workplace rules can kill passion and create distractions, and why companies that want to run remotely need to adopt a new mindset. 

Jason Fried is the co-founder of Basecamp and has been running the company for 23 years. He is a monthly columnist at Inc. Magazine and has authored several books, including Rework and Remote: Office Not Required.

“A lot of work doesn’t happen in the office. A lot of distractions happen in the office. We get in each other’s way all the time.” - Jason Fried

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Timestamps

[01:13] Who is Jason Fried? 

[04:16] How did Jason grow Basecamp?

[06:32] Where do people do their best work?

[09:28] How to create the space to do great work.

[13:44] Why don’t people have the space to do great work? 

[17:58] Why remote work requires a different mindset from physical work.

[22:32] 40-hour week: how much can you get done in 8 hours?

[25:34] Balancing work life and home life when working remotely. 

[29:02]  What if employees abuse our generosity or trust?

[34:18] Organisational culture is NOT created.

[36:47] How to stay social when your company is fully remote (expensive but not frivolous).

[41:01] JOMO - The joy of missing out.

[43:25] Creating great and safe digital workspaces. 

[47:24] How to stay in touch with Jason Fried

4 Key Takeaways

1. People need space to do great work. When space is restricted by workplace rules, people aren’t able to fulfil their potential. Restrictions include being monitored or watched, not being able to move while working, and being forced to work in specific places or at specific times. 
2. Remote work requires a different mindset from local work. Among many other aspects, it requires more trust, fewer meetings, more individual work, and less oversight. If companies don’t adopt a different mindset governing remote work, it may be worse than physical work.
3. Being driven by philosophies rather than rules can make organisations more flexible and adaptable. It creates a more open, lenient, and thoughtful culture and more space for agency and openness.  
4. Culture is not created; it's a byproduct of consistent behaviour. 

Links 

Why Work Does not Happen at Work: Jason Fried at TEDxMidwest

Books by Jason Fried: Amazon

Jason’s new email service: Hey

Connect with Jason Fried: Newsletter | LinkedIn | Twitter

Connect with Kursty Groves: LinkedIn | Twitter | Ask a question

Support the show

Support the show

Spatial Attraction is written, produced, and hosted by Kursty Groves.

Original music and sound production by Lee Golledge.

For episodes and updates, visit https://kurstygroves.com/podcast/ - and follow Spatial Attraction on LinkedIn and Instagram.

To suggest a theme or guest, email [email protected].

Send us Fan Mail

Trend forecaster Li Edelkoort joins Kursty to discuss the anatomy of trends, the ecology of fashion, and the post-pandemic workplace. Reflecting on the state of the world, Li discusses how to redesign the modern workplace to respond to new and upcoming trends. She explores how the pandemic has made us more in tune with nature and the good things that have come of it. Throughout the discussion, Li shares nuggets of wisdom, showing us how trends that haven’t yet reached the main stage are currently being formed.

Li Edelkoort is a globally renowned trend forecaster and activist for fair, sustainable, and thoughtful fashion. She is the author of the Anti-Fashion Manifesto and a co-author of A Labour of Love. Recently, she founded the World Hope Forum. 

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[00:49] Who is Li Edelkoort? 
[01:43] The Workplace Geeks Podcast
[02:28] More about Li’s impact on eco and fashion issues. 
[04:22] Where do your clothes come from? 
[07:40] The energy of immobile items and all the ideas that have shaped Li’s career. 
[12:05] Getting clients that align with your values. 
[14:28] Fashion has become old-fashioned - what does that mean? 
[20:01] The disappearing joy of finding a new fashion piece. 
[22:39] Would slavery have existed if cotton and sugar didn’t exist?
[25:57] How to predict trends before they happen. 
[30:52] How the pandemic pushed us to live in a more seasonal way (winter hibernation). 
[34:05] How organizations can adapt to post-pandemic realities. 
[37:50] Why it’s profitable to be in smaller cities. 
[39:39] A simpler way to think about money and managing resources.

4 Key Takeaways

1. We are rooted in the earth. Our clothes are made from plants that grow in the ground. Fashion grows from the earth. We must ignite our consciousness of the connection between fashion and the environment. 
2. Society has been overloaded with shopping. There is too much choice, and that choice is overwhelming. The joy of finding a new fashion piece and celebrating when you purchase it and then go home with it is no longer as prevalent as it used to be. As mass production increases, editing and curating will become more important parts of fashion. 
3. The 'Great Resignation' movement amplified what was already in the air. This new trend may indicate that urban environments will become less populous as people move into rural areas. This may lead to the urbanisation of rural areas. 
4. The pandemic has forced us to live more in tune with the seasons. Winter is for introspection, solitude, and hibernation. Summer and spring are for blooming into the world, exploration, and togetherness. 

Links 

Listen to Workplace Geeks: Podcast Web Page | Kursty’s Episode on Workplace Geeks

Books by William Morris: Amazon | Thrift Books

World Hope Forum: Website

Connect with Li Edelkoort: Website | 

Support the show

Support the show

Spatial Attraction is written, produced, and hosted by Kursty Groves.

Original music and sound production by Lee Golledge.

For episodes and updates, visit https://kurstygroves.com/podcast/ - and follow Spatial Attraction on LinkedIn and Instagram.

To suggest a theme or guest, email [email protected].

Send us Fan Mail

Interview with Ian Ellison and Chris Moriarty, two brilliant workplace thinkers 'on a mission to find and celebrate the most exciting and inspiring workplace research in the world'.

A fascinating geek-out into Kursty's second book, Spaces for Innovation, which dives into the science and design of inspiring environments that support creativity and collaboration.

Some of the topics covered include:

📖 How the book itself is designed with the user in mind

💡 The core themes for defining spaces that support creativity and innovation

📏 Metrics, how they need to accommodate new ways of working and the spaces that support

Links:

• Workplace Geeks Linkedin Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/workplacegeeks/
• Chris Moriarty Linkedin
• Ian Ellison Linkedin

Support the show

Support the show

Spatial Attraction is written, produced, and hosted by Kursty Groves.

Original music and sound production by Lee Golledge.

For episodes and updates, visit https://kurstygroves.com/podcast/ - and follow Spatial Attraction on LinkedIn and Instagram.

To suggest a theme or guest, email [email protected].

Send us Fan Mail

Summary 

Expert author Rachel Botsman joins Kursty to discuss the relationship between trust and space. They talk about how significant it is for organisations to empower individuals to have a rhythm of work that sends them into immersion mode, why getting through to-do lists shouldn’t be the most prized priority in the workplace, and what negative capability is. 

Rachel is the author of Who Can You Trust and the host of the Rethink Podcast. Throughout her career, she has delivered three TED talks and written two critically acclaimed books. She is the first Trust Fellow at Oxford University. Her book What’s Mine Is Yours predicted the rise of the ‘sharing economy', coining the phrase ‘collaborative consumption'.

“What you give attention to is the shape of your life” - Rachel Botsman

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Timestamps

[00:18] Who is Rachel Botsman (and episode overview)?

[03:54] The rhythm of unconventional work: finding immersion and working in 5-year cycles

[07:39] Resisting distractions and staying the course in your line of work.  

[08:44]  The relationship between trust and digital and physical space.

[15:22] Fake backgrounds in virtual meetings: is it inauthentic?

[16:44] What does it mean to trust yourself (and what is negative capability)?

[21:50] Three aspects of building negative capability in yourself and your organisations. 

[27:01] How busy people make time for people (how Rachel does it).

[30:33] Rachel’s process for reading, reflecting, and capturing information. 

[34:33] Why time blocking doesn’t work (managing competing priorities and creating space). 

[37:23] Procrastination vs. avoidance (why we avoid work).

[40:44] What Rachel is working on currently.

[44:37] Rachel’s rituals when public speaking or podcasting.  

4 Key Takeaways

1. Technology has made the world noisier. It has become harder to resist distractions. People need to be empowered to change the rhythm of their work to allow for immersion. 
2. Trust is a space and an energy. It is a confident relationship with the unknown. When you have trust, you place your confidence in the unknown.  Space design reflects the culture of trust in that space.
3. No creativity happens in the known; the known is the opposite of invention. Great minds can hold space in themselves; they don’t need to know the end result before they begin. Negative capability in the workplace is rare.
4. Timeframes, language, and work rhythms can reinforce or kill negative capability in individuals and organisations. 

Rachel Botsman’s Books: 

Who Can You Trust?

What's Mine Is Yours

Rachel Botsman’s Ted Talks: 

We've stopped trusting institutions and started trusting strangers 

The currency of the new economy is trust

The case for collaborative consumption

Support the show

Support the show

Spatial Attraction is written, produced, and hosted by Kursty Groves.

Original music and sound production by Lee Golledge.

For episodes and updates, visit https://kurstygroves.com/podcast/ - and follow Spatial Attraction on LinkedIn and Instagram.

To suggest a theme or guest, email [email protected].

Send us Fan Mail

Summary 

Workplace strategist Neil Usher joins Kursty to discuss the nuances of navigating hybrid work, brain states that trigger creativity, and the research opportunities we missed in the pre-pandemic world. In their conversation, they accentuate that what makes hybrid working complicated is not just the space aspect but the time aspect as well.  They chat about self-imposing discipline, internally inspiring creativity, and managing time and space when you work from home. 

Neil Usher is the Chief Workplace & Change Strategist at GoSpace AI. He has 20+ years of experience managing property portfolios and large-scale organizational change. He is the author of the two books The Elemental Workplace: The 12 Elements for Creating a Fantastic Workplace for Everyone and Elemental Change: Making stuff happen when nothing stands still. 

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Timestamps

[00:41] Who is Neil Usher from Go Space AI? (and highlights from the conversation with Neil)

[05:36] Why Neil wrote his two books Elemental Workplace and Elemental Change. 

[08:54] Why coordinating time is more challenging than coordinating space in the hybrid working world. 

[15:45] Is there more value to working alone or working together?

[25:00] How has the pandemic changed the 12 elements of the workplace?

[28:52] The value of your unpublished work (don’t throw it away)

[32:32] How to leverage your two brain states (beta state and theta state)

[39:18] Self imposing discipline when you work from home

[43:24] How to connect with Neil Usher.  

3 Key Takeaways

1. Time is more complicated than space. Before the pandemic, you knew where your colleagues would be at any point in time. Now, you need to make more decisions like where you will be at which point in time and where people you work closely with will be as well. Flexibility adds complexity and adds a mental burden. 
2. There is a value to being alone and a value to being together.  We instinctively feel that there’s value to being together, but we didn’t use the decades of opportunity we had to explore the value of being together in a scientific way. We have a lot more data on the value of working alone from the past 2 years because we consciously looked for it. We need a dynamic data capture to accurately understand how we work best.
3. Inclusion has become one of the most important elements of the workplace. The pandemic has shed light on the range of considerations we need to keep in mind when we think of inclusion. 

Links 

The Elemental Workplace: 12 Elements for Creating a Fantastic Workplace for All

Elemental Change: Making stuff happen when nothing stands still

Connect with Neil Usher: LinkedIn | Twitter 

Connect with Kursty Groves: LinkedIn | Twitter | Ask a question or pitch an idea: [email protected] 

Support the show

Support the show

Spatial Attraction is written, produced, and hosted by Kursty Groves.

Original music and sound production by Lee Golledge.

For episodes and updates, visit https://kurstygroves.com/podcast/ - and follow Spatial Attraction on LinkedIn and Instagram.

To suggest a theme or guest, email [email protected].