Paul, Robert, and Liz take a break from their conversations around the passion of Jesus to reflect on Christmas, and in particular, the story of the first live nativity, created by Francis of Assisi.

"Francis of Asissi was probably the first person in the church to be completely enamored with, very particularly, the person of Jesus. It just ignited his whole life. He'd been a soldier and had a breakdown after that, as a young man in his early 20s, but then became enchanted with the person of Jesus. By the time he died in his 40s, there were 30,000 Franciscans at their annual conference. His love for Jesus was transformative on the whole medieval mind. He was the first person to create a live nativity scene, and it changed how we celebrate Christmas. Because up till then the book of Matthew, with its portrayal of the wise men, was dominant in the Christmas story, and now, the shepherds came in and got some play."

"Francis' nativity shows what can happen if you fall in love with the person of Jesus!"

"For Mary and Joseph, plans keep changing. I mean, they were going to get married and have a baby, as far as we know, in Nazareth, and they had to return for the census. I'm sure in their imagination they were going to have a baby in a better place and they ended up in a manger. Then were going to stay in Bethlehem and an angel came to Joseph and said, 'Get out of here.' They had to go to Egypt, and then, even then, they were going to return to Nazareth and the angel appeared to Joseph again. Joseph gets a lot of angel appearances, by the way!"