Peter Boghossian joined two of his favorite Michaels for Spectrum Street Epistemology in Santa Barbara, California. Bestselling authors and esteemed public intellectuals Michael Shermer and Michael Shellenberger discussed a number of topics ranging from religion to alien life. Peter began with a claim that elicited points of agreement and disagreement: "Christianity is a better bulwark against 'woke' than humanism." This opens a discussion of nihilism, objective vs. subjective views of reality, and moral realism and pragmatism. They consider the primal (and political) rejection of free speech, history's moral arc, the limits of knowledge, and epistemic humility. Both gentlemen clarify their views on alien life and Mr. Shellenberger, a Christian, identifies the "most important" Biblical passage. Michael Shellenberger is an author, investigative journalist, and the founder & president of Environmental Progress, a nonprofit research organization. He also co-founded the California Peace Coalition, an alliance of parents of children killed by fentanyl and parents of homeless addicts. Michael is the author of "Break Through: From the Death of Environmentalism to the Politics of Possibility" (with Ted Nordhaus), "Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All," and most recently, "San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities." Peter and Michael published "Woke Psychopathology: A Taxonomy" in October 2023. Michael Shermer is the world's leading skeptic and Founding Publisher of Skeptic magazine. He hosts the podcast The Michael Shermer Show and is a Presidential Fellow at Chapman University where he teaches Skepticism 101. Dr. Shermer is the author of several books, including the New York Times bestsellers "Why People Believe Weird Things" and "The Believing Brain." His latest book is "Conspiracy: Why the Rational Believe the Irrational." Watch this episode on YouTube.