Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power

In the season finale of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, we examine the final stage of Vineyard USA's transformation from grassroots revival to centralized authority. This chapter traces how real crisis - like the abuse scandal in Duluth - were used to justify a long-planned internal reorganization, giving a small group of leaders near-total control of the movement.

We explore how spiritual bypassing, gaslighting, and vague accusations of "gossip" were used to silence dissenters. Through the insights of Dr. Paula Swindle and Pastor Doug Warburton, we define these patterns for what they are: psychological and spiritual manipulation.

We honor the survivors - especially those in Duluth - and remember the young woman who lost her life. Because this story is about more than bylaws and policy. It's about people.

We conclude with a call to Vineyard's largest churches. If even a few demand change, the future could look different. But with 90% of churches already signed onto the new structure, the silence is deafening. Is this the version of Vineyard you still want?

Content Warning: This episode discusses spiritual abuse, systemic retraumatization, and suicide. Listen discretion is advised.

Call to Action:

Share this episode.

Contact your local Vineyard pastor.

Demand Accountability.

Call local and national media and ask them to pick up this story.

This is the full interview with Mandy Cavoto who, along with her husband Matt, were a part of the worship team at Mile High Vineyard in Denver, Colorado.

Many opens up about the spiritual abuse, the patterns of manipulation, and gaslighting she experienced there. She also reflects on her deep grief for the community she once loved, the cost of staying silent, and what healing has looked like in the aftermath. This conversation is raw, unflinching look at what happens when loyalty is weaponized and vulnerable staff members are left without protection or support.

Whether you've been following the story or are just tuning in, Mandy's story provides essential insight into the systemic failures explored throughout Spoiled Fruit.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussion of emotional, spiritual, and institutional abuse, as well as references to traumatic experiences within faith communities. Listener discretion is advised.

For resources go to www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com/resources

In this extended interview, former Vineyard pastor Reagan Waggoner shares his deeply personal journey from trusted leader to outspoken critic of Vineyard USA's handling of spiritual abuse, institutional accountability, and the controversial ReOrg process.

Reagan candidly discusses:

• The troubling dynamics he observed in Vineyard's national leadership
• His direct challenges to Jay Pathak and the chilling response
• The emotional toll of being investigated for asking difficult questions
• Why transparency, repentance, and reform matter more than institutional perservation

This conversation pulls back the curtain on a movement in crisis - and a leader who chose truth over silence, even at great personal cost.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussion of spiritual abuse, institutional betrayal, and emotional distress. Listener discretion is advised.

Legal Disclaimer: The views expressed in this interview are those of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect the position of this podcast or its producers. All individuals mentioned are presumed innocent until proven otherwise in a court of law.

Resources Mentioned:

• Spoiled Fruit Website: www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com
• ReOrg Memo Analysis:
• Guidpost Report Summary:

Follow us on:

Instagram: @spoiledfruitpod

TikTok: @spoiledfruitpodcast

Email us: [email protected]

Subscribe, rate, and share to help bring these stories to light.

Chapter 7: Crisis as Currency — How Vineyard Leveraged Collapse to Consolidate Power

Content Warning: This episode includes references to spiritual abuse, institutional manipulation, and suicide. Listener discretion is advised.

In Chapter 7, we examine how Vineyard USA used crisis—real and perceived—to reshape its power structures under the banner of reform. As major scandals unfolded in Duluth and Anaheim, national leaders capitalized on the chaos to push through a sweeping reorganization process known simply as the “ReOrg.”

We trace National Director Jay Pathak’s rise to power, exploring how his formation under leaders like Rich Nathan and Michael Gatlin shaped his leadership style—and how patterns of control, suppression of dissent, and spiritual bypassing followed him into his national role.

We also break down:

• The striking similarities between the 2020 internal ReOrg memo and the Guidepost Solutions assessment used later to justify structural change.

• How a flawed survey, a narrow assessment scope, and a potentially compromised investigator created the illusion of consensus.

• Why many pastors now believe the ReOrg wasn’t just reform—it was a strategic seizure of control, engineered by those already in power.

Finally, we ask: what happens when a movement founded on revival becomes obsessed with survival? And who pays the price when reform is built on the backs of the abused?

💬 Connect:

• 💻 Website: spoiledfruitpodcast.com

• 📧 Email: [email protected]

• 📱 Instagram / TikTok / X: @spoiledfruitpod

📰 Media inquiries and tips:

Contact John Williamson at [email protected]

📄 Show Notes:

In this episode of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, John sits down with Tom and Adey Wassink—former Vineyard pastors who led a thriving congregation in Iowa until their decision to fully affirm LGBTQ+ people placed them at odds with national leadership.

Their story is one of love, loss, resilience, and rebirth. In this powerful conversation, they speak candidly about the painful process of being pushed out of the Vineyard Movement, the courage it took to stand by their convictions, and the unexpected beauty they found on the other side.

Tom and Adey are also the authors of the newly released book, Sanctuary: Queering a Church in the Heartland—a deeply personal and theologically rich memoir that explores what it means to create truly inclusive sacred spaces.

💬 Topics covered:

– Their call to create an inclusive church

– The reaction from Vineyard leadership

– How their congregation responded

– Building a sanctuary outside the system

– What it costs to live out affirming faith in the evangelical world

– Insights from Sanctuary and hopes for the future

📚 Grab the book:

Sanctuary: Queering a Church in the Heartland is available now wherever books are sold.

Like the music used in this episode?

The song you heard is "You Must Go" by Forrest Clay from the Recover EP. It's available anywhere you find your music!

🔗 Connect:

Visit spoiledfruitpodcast.com for more information, transcripts, and related resources.

📢 Don’t forget to rate, review, and share the show—especially if this episode resonates with your own journey.

Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power

🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts

🔗 www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

What happens when pastors stay committed to a movement that no longer wants them?

In this episode, we hear directly from former Vineyard pastors who sought to create churches that were fully welcoming and affirming of LGBTQ individuals—only to find themselves pushed out, marginalized, or erased.

We begin with Ken Wilson, founding pastor of Vineyard Church of Ann Arbor, whose decision to become publicly affirming marked a seismic shift in his relationship with the movement he helped build. We also hear from JT Meyer, Melody Winderweedle, and Tom & Adey Wasink, all of whom paid a steep personal and professional price for choosing integrity over silence.

Each of their stories is different. But the pattern is the same: pastors who tried to make room for everyone… were quietly shown the door.

This chapter explores the tension between theology, community, and control—and what it costs to be inclusive in a system designed to shut the conversation down.

Special thanks to our guests:

🙏 Ken Wilson – for his honesty, clarity, and willingness to finally tell his side of the story

🙏 JT Meyer – for his courage in navigating a public reckoning with grace

🙏 Melody Winderweedle – for sharing her journey with insight and vulnerability

🙏 Tom & Adey Wasink – for their transparency, compassion, and continued work building a faith community rooted in love

📚 Learn more about the Wasinks’ journey and their new book, Permission to be Queer and Christian: A Path to Wholeness, available now through

https://www.amazon.com/Sanctuary-Queering-Heartland-Adey-Wassink/dp/1641801859

🗣️ If this episode resonates with you, please rate, review, and share the podcast.

🎙️ Join the conversation at www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com or on Instagram @spoiledfruitpod.

🎙️ Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power – Chapter 5: “The Appearance of Change”

After years of warning signs, three independent investigations were launched—GRACE, Trusted HR, and Guidepost Solutions—each tasked with uncovering what went wrong in churches like Duluth Vineyard and Causeway Coast Vineyard, and within Vineyard USA itself.

In Chapter 5, we take a closer look at what these investigations found, what they recommended, and how the churches and national leadership responded… or didn’t. We compare the actions taken by Duluth, Coleraine, Vineyard USA, and Vineyard UK & Ireland—and ask whether the reforms put in place are truly meaningful or simply cosmetic.

We also examine the new bylaws, employee handbook, conflict of interest policy, dating policy, and child protection policy that Vineyard pastors have been asked to sign. What protections are missing? Who holds the power now? And what happens when churches—like Ann Arbor, Duluth, and Raleigh—begin to push back?

⚠️ Content Warning:

This episode includes detailed discussion of spiritual, emotional, and sexual abuse, and the mishandling of misconduct in church settings. It may also include strong language. Listener discretion is advised.

🛑 Legal Disclaimer:

The views and experiences shared in this podcast are those of the individuals interviewed and do not necessarily reflect the official position of any organization, past or present. This podcast is for storytelling and informational purposes only and should not be interpreted as legal, clinical, or professional advice. If you or someone you know has experienced abuse in a faith-based setting, we encourage you to seek support from qualified professionals and survivor-advocacy resources.

🙏 Special Thanks:

Thank you to our guests in this chapter:

Ryan Bauers, Kris Sauter, Brian Metzger, and JT Meyer,

whose honesty, vulnerability, and willingness to speak up make this series possible.

🔗 Stay Connected:

Subscribe and follow Spoiled Fruit wherever you get your podcasts.

Visit: www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

Follow us on social: @spoiledfruitpod

Exclusive content available soon for subscribers.

🎙️ Credits:

Written and Hosted by: John Williamson

Produced by: John Williamson Productions, LLC

📍 Episode Summary:

In this episode of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, host John interviews Rebecca Hopkins, an investigative journalist renowned for her in-depth reporting on abuse and misconduct within evangelical churches. Rebecca discusses the challenges of investigating religious institutions, the patterns of abuse she has uncovered, and the importance of accountability in faith communities.

🔗 Resources & Further Reading:

• Rebecca Hopkins’ Articles on Religion Unplugged: Explore her investigative pieces on various religious institutions and figures.

• Apologist Michael Brown Engaged in ‘Sexually Abusive Misconduct,’ Report Says

• Pastoral Team Urges IHOPKC Founder Mike Bickle Banned from ‘Public Ministry’

• Rebecca Hopkins’ Reporting on MinistryWatch: Investigative reports on church networks and leadership accountability.

• Churches are Leaving the ‘Network’ Led by Steve Morgan

🧠 Key Topics Discussed:

• The role of investigative journalism in uncovering abuse within religious institutions.

• Challenges faced when reporting on powerful religious figures and organizations.

• The importance of independent media in holding faith communities accountable.

• Insights into the patterns of misconduct within evangelical movements.

📣 Connect with Rebecca Hopkins:

• LinkedIn: Rebecca Hopkins

📬 Stay Connected:

• Subscribe to Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power: Stay updated with the latest episodes and discussions.

• Follow us on Social Media: Engage with our community and share your thoughts.

⚖️ Legal Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of the guest and host and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any affiliated organization or institution.

All individuals mentioned are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. While every effort has been made to verify the information shared in this episode, listeners are encouraged to do their own research and draw their own conclusions.

This episode may discuss allegations of abuse, misconduct, or other sensitive topics. Listener discretion is advised.

Nothing in this episode should be construed as legal advice. If you or someone you know has experienced abuse or misconduct, we encourage you to seek support from qualified professionals or legal counsel.

🎙️ Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power – Full Interview: Spencer Kuvín

In this special bonus episode, we share the full, unedited interview with Spencer Kuvín, the Florida-based attorney representing multiple victims in the ongoing civil litigation connected to Duluth Vineyard, Vineyard USA, Michael and Brenda Gatlin, and Jackson Gatlin.

Spencer brings not only deep legal insight to the conversation, but also years of experience advocating for survivors in nationally significant abuse cases—including clients connected to Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Cosby.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Spencer discusses:

• How early warning signs were ignored

• What the legal case reveals about institutional patterns of protection

• Why survivors so often face retaliation when they speak up

• And what true accountability in a faith-based system might actually require

This interview offers essential context for understanding the legal and structural failures at the heart of this story—and what it means for the Vineyard movement and beyond.

⚠️ Content Warning:

This episode includes discussion of sexual abuse, spiritual abuse, emotional trauma, and ongoing legal proceedings involving high-profile defendants. It may also contain strong language. Listener discretion is advised.

🛑 Legal Disclaimer:

The views and experiences shared in this episode reflect those of the individuals interviewed and do not necessarily represent the official position of any organization, past or present. This podcast is intended for informational and storytelling purposes only and should not be interpreted as legal, clinical, or professional advice. If you or someone you know has experienced abuse in a religious or institutional context, please seek support from licensed professionals and survivor-centered organizations.

🙏 Special Thanks:

We extend our deepest thanks to Spencer Kuvín for his transparency, time, and advocacy on behalf of survivors.

🔗 Stay Connected:

For more full-length interviews and bonus content, subscribe to Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power wherever you get your podcasts.

Visit: www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and X (formerly Twitter): @spoiledfruitpod

Exclusive content is available for subscribers and supporters.

🎙️ Credits:

Guest: Spencer Kuvín, Esq.

Written and Hosted by: John Williamson

Produced by: John Williamson Productions, LLC

Episode 4: “God Told Me So”

When personal revelation becomes a shield for power, who pays the price?

In this episode of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, we examine the rise of Alan and Kathryn Scott—from their beginnings at Causeway Coast Vineyard in Northern Ireland to their controversial takeover of Anaheim Vineyard, the flagship church of the Vineyard movement. What began as a ministry rooted in spiritual fervor became a vehicle for unchecked authority, manipulation, and silencing of dissent.

Through firsthand accounts and extensive reporting, we uncover how Alan Scott’s insistence that he was hearing directly from God allowed him to bypass accountability, override governance structures, and consolidate power in ways that left congregants and staff confused, hurt, and in some cases, spiritually traumatized.

We explore:

• The red flags from Northern Ireland that went unheeded

• The leadership dynamics in Anaheim following the Scotts’ arrival

• Parallels between the Scott and Gatlin stories

• The role of worship platform culture and figures like Jeremy Riddle

• Why Vineyard USA didn’t intervene—and what that says about their systems

💬 Special Thanks

This episode wouldn’t be possible without the honesty and courage of those who agreed to share their experiences. We want to extend our deepest gratitude to everyone who trusted us with their stories—many of whom are speaking publicly for the first time.

💬 Special Thanks

This episode wouldn’t be possible without the honesty and courage of those who agreed to share their experiences. We are incredibly grateful to everyone who trusted us with their stories—many of whom are speaking publicly for the first time.

Thank you to:

🗣️ Brian Metzger, lead pastor at Raleigh Vineyard

🗣️ Rebecca Hopkins of The Roys Report, whose consistent and careful reporting helped illuminate key details of the Anaheim Vineyard story and provided a foundation for further investigation.

Your voices help shine a light where silence has prevailed for far too long.

🎧 Listen & Subscribe

Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you listen to shows.

📣 Spread the Word

If this episode resonated with you, please consider rating and reviewing the show, sharing it with a friend, or posting about it using the hashtag #SpoiledFruitPodcast.

It’s time to ask why we excuse the bad fruit.

Disclaimer:

Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power is a work of investigative journalism. It includes allegations and opinions based on interviews, public documents, media reports, and other sources. All individuals mentioned are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

This podcast is not affiliated with Vineyard USA or any religious organization. Names, events, and quotes are used for reporting and documentary purposes under fair use and public interest protections. The creators of this series have taken care to verify information where possible and present commentary in a good-faith effort to inform the public.

Some episodes contain references to sexual abuse, spiritual trauma, and other sensitive topics. Listener discretion is advised.