On the podcast I talk with Ashley about what makes Google App Campaigns so effective for growth, proven optimization strategies, and why lower CPMs can sometimes be a warning sign rather than a win.

Top Takeaways:

📈 Google App Campaigns: Big reach, but fewer levers to pull
Google’s ad platform delivers massive scale - search, YouTube, the Play Store - but hands much of the control to machine learning. That tradeoff can work in your favor, but only if you guide the system with structured testing, smart bidding, and strong creative input.

🎯 Lower CPMs aren’t always a reason to celebrate
Lower ad costs might look good on paper, but they often mean your ads are running in lower-quality placements. Understanding where Google is serving your ads - whether in search, display, or YouTube - helps you avoid cheap but ineffective traffic.

🚀 Scaling requires patience, not just budget
Google’s algorithm doesn’t respond well to drastic changes. Scaling too fast can throw off performance, leading to unstable results. The best approach? Increase budgets by 20% every few days to give the system time to adjust.

🔍 Creative testing looks different on Google - play the game accordingly

Unlike Meta, Google doesn’t allow direct A/B testing for creatives. That doesn’t mean you can’t optimize. The best way to guide the algorithm? Set up multiple ad groups with distinct creative themes, then monitor what Google prioritizes.

💡 Google Ads on iOS: A challenge, but still worth it

Google’s iOS campaigns rely heavily on search and YouTube, but ATT and SKAdNetwork make tracking conversions trickier. Google fills in gaps with modeled conversions, but advertisers need to understand the discrepancies between Google’s reports and their MMPs.

About Ashley Black

👨‍💻 Founder of Candid Consulting, an agency specializing in helping apps run effective marketing campaigns for Android and iOS.

🎶 Ashley spent years at Google leading app ad strategy, helping developers scale through machine learning, user acquisition, and optimization.

💡 “If you have an app and you’re starting to think about how you actually pay to get users to download that app, you’re probably going to start looking at Google.”

👋  LinkedIn

On the podcast I talk with Sherina about why performance marketing eventually hits a ceiling, how to think about measure brand marketing, and why sometimes ignoring A/B test results leads to better outcomes.

Top Takeaways:
📈Freemium can’t feel cheap

Deezer once took a hardline approach to converting free users – limiting features to push them toward paid plans. The result? Users didn’t upgrade; they just left. The best freemium models strike a balance: give users real value, build habit and trust, then make the premium experience feel like a natural next step.

💡Bundles and partnerships – growth without the ad spend
Instead of relying solely on ads, Deezer fuels growth through partnerships. Deals with telcos, hardware companies, and retailers like Sonos and Mercado Libre help put the app in front of millions of potential users. Bundling subscriptions with other services doesn’t just expand reach – it makes premium features feel like a built-in perk rather than an extra cost.

🎯Performance marketing won’t scale on its own
Performance marketing can be an incredible growth engine – until it isn’t. As Deezer scaled, Sherina Khalidi saw firsthand how it eventually hits a ceiling. Brand marketing plays a crucial role in breaking through, keeping Deezer top of mind so performance campaigns can work more efficiently. Without that balance, acquisition costs rise, and growth stalls.

🚀Measuring brand marketing when the usual tools fall short
Traditional attribution models struggle to capture the impact of brand marketing. At Deezer, Sherina and her team use a mix of media mix modeling, incrementality testing, and brand lift studies to fill in the gaps. Even when direct tracking isn’t possible, data-backed decisions still are.

🔍Why ignoring A/B test results sometimes leads to better outcomes
A/B tests can be powerful, but they don’t always tell the full story. When Deezer tested new homepage designs, the data suggested sticking with an old, cluttered version – but Sherina’s team knew it wasn’t the right long-term choice. By trusting their instincts and focusing on user experience, they saw better results over time. Sometimes, the best decisions aren’t the ones that win the test.

About Sherina

👨‍💻 VP of Performance Marketing at Deezer, a popular music and audio streaming platform.

🎶 Sherina has spent nearly a decade at Deezer, driving sustainable growth through freemium, performance marketing, and strategic partnerships.

💡 “Freemium only works if it’s actually free. Take away too much, and users won’t upgrade—they’ll just leave. The best freemium models build habit and trust before making the upsell.”

👋  LinkedIn

Follow us on X: 

• David Barnard - @drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights:
[1:10] Capitalizing on the opportunity: How Deezer took advantage of a cultural shift to become one of the pioneers of monthly subscriptions in the music industry.
[3:37] Changing their tune: Why the Deezer team pivoted from trying to frustrate users into paying for a subscription to leveraging strategic advertising partnerships.
[10:23] A David and Goliath story: How Deezer competes with large audio streaming brands like Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Apple Music, and Spotify.
[16:12] Playing the long game: Brand marketing may not provide immediate returns in revenue, but a solid brand image and positive user sentiment make performance marketing more effective.
[24:47] Measurement re-mix: How media mix modeling and incrementality testing can help you understand the effects of your marketing efforts better than basic tracking and attribution.
[34:16] Calculated risks: To succeed with performance marketing, you have to be willing to innovate, test, and learn from failure.
[38:32] Gut instinct: Data can help you understand what is and isn’t working, but it can also be misleading — sometimes you just have to trust your instincts.
[40:36] Knowing your audience: How user-centricity can help you make better marketing decisions.

On the podcast we talk with Bruno about putting customers ahead of metrics, why there’s still massive opportunity to build successful apps today, and how a server crash turned into an accidentally successful A/B test.

Top Takeaways:
📈 The app ecosystem still holds massive opportunities
Developers often assume the app market is saturated, but it continues to evolve with new possibilities. Technologies like AI, AR, and better hardware create untapped opportunities for developers who are willing to innovate. Even in mature categories, developers can find success by solving specific user problems and offering unique value. Genius Scan’s long journey from a dorm-room project to a 5M MAU business shows that with the right focus, developers can still thrive in the app economy.

💡 Putting customers ahead of metrics builds better businesses
Focusing on user needs over short-term KPIs creates stronger, longer-lasting businesses. Genius Scan avoids manipulative monetization tactics, instead building trust through transparent pricing and responsive support. By prioritizing the customer experience, the team has cultivated loyalty and word-of-mouth growth, proving that a people-first approach can lead to sustainable success.

🎯 Simplified pricing boosts revenue without hurting adoption
Bold pricing experiments can yield surprising results. When Genius Scan consolidated its subscription offerings by removing the lower-priced tier, the number of daily purchases remained the same, but revenue tripled as users gravitated toward the higher-tier option. This proves that users value premium offerings when they deliver meaningful value. Streamlining pricing not only simplifies decisions for customers but also creates opportunities for businesses to maximize revenue while maintaining adoption.

🚀 Small changes can drive big results in app performance
An accidental server crash led Genius Scan to discover that simpler banner text converted twice as well as their original messaging. By intentionally testing the change, they uncovered a small tweak with outsized results. This underscores the power of continuous experimentation—businesses can uncover growth opportunities by testing everything from messaging to UX design.

🔍 Bootstrapped success proves apps can thrive without funding
Indie developers can compete with tech giants by delivering specialized features that go beyond the basics offered by platform-native tools. Genius Scan, with its advanced scanning and export functionality, demonstrates how bootstrapped businesses can thrive by solving real problems for specific audiences. Building a sustainable business doesn’t always require outside funding—it requires focus, persistence, and delivering meaningful value to users.

About Bruno Virlet

🚀 Co-founder of Genius Scan, one of the earliest and best scanning apps for smartphones, bringing advanced document scanning to millions of users worldwide.

📄 Bruno Virlet started Genius Scan with his roommate as a fun side project during their time at the University of Illinois, turning a simple idea into a 15-year journey of bootstrapped success.

💡 “We didn’t want to be entrepreneurs—we just wanted to build something useful. It was about creating an app we’d want to use ourselves. That’s still the ethos driving us today.”

🔧 Through continuous experimentation (even accidental A/B tests!), Bruno has grown Genius Scan to 5 million monthly active users—all while staying true to a customer-first approach.

👋  LinkedIn

Resources:

• The Grizzly Labs
• Genius Scan

Follow us on X: 

• David Barnard - @drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights:

[00:00] The Genius Scan journey begins: How a side project in a university dorm room grew into one of the most successful scanning apps with 5 million monthly active users.

[02:09] Pivoting early: The original idea was scanning paintings in museums, but technical and market constraints led to a shift toward document scanning.

[05:38] A stroke of luck: How a canceled trip and a refund led Bruno to buy a MacBook and develop the first version of Genius Scan in just six weeks.

[07:26] App Store beginnings: Launching Genius Scan as a free app in 2010 and watching it skyrocket in the rankings before experimenting with monetization.

[13:45] Competing with tech giants: How Genius Scan stays relevant and competitive despite Apple and Google introducing native scanning features.

[19:50] Customer-first philosophy: Why Genius Scan focuses on user experience and avoids dark patterns, keeping features accessible without sacrificing long-term user trust.

[26:43] Experimenting with subscriptions: The shift from one-time purchases to subscription models, and how removing a lower-tier option increased revenue without affecting conversion.

[43:56] The accidental A/B test: A server issue revealed how minor changes in paywall text and presentation doubled conversions.

[50:05] Learning from feedback: How staying close to users through direct support drives product improvements and reinforces customer loyalty.

[57:45] Building a company for the long term: Bruno reflects on balancing growth, profitability, and personal priorities, emphasizing the value of independence and sustainable success.

On the podcast we talk with Nathan about the strategic opportunity of web2app, how and when to use web2app, and why one app found success using webinars in their web2app funnel.

Top Takeaways:
🔑 Web-to-app opens up opportunities for small apps
Smaller apps can use web-to-app strategies to improve cash flow, gain better attribution data, and test acquisition campaigns with smaller budgets. It’s an effective way to experiment with paid growth without relying solely on app store mechanics.

🎯 Gain full control over the user journey
Web-to-app lets developers craft highly personalized and seamless user journeys. Build onboarding flows, quizzes, and paywalls tailored to your users, free from app store restrictions.

🌎 Reach untapped audiences with web-first content
Web-to-app opens the door to users who don’t convert directly through app ads. Channels like blogs, gated content, or webinars are excellent for capturing lower-intent users and nurturing them into app subscribers over time.

💸 Increase revenue with smarter sales tactics
Web-to-app enables upsells, cross-sells, and product bundling that aren’t always feasible in-app. This strategy is particularly effective for higher ticket subscriptions or apps looking to diversify revenue streams.

📣 Leverage unique channels to drive growth
Web-to-app expands the range of channels you can use effectively, from influencer campaigns with trackable links to affiliate partnerships, YouTube ads, and beyond. Each channel provides new ways to engage users at different stages of the funnel.

About Nathan Hudson

• 👨‍💻 Founder & CEO of Perceptycs, a growth consultancy specializing in web-to-app strategies that drive user acquisition, retention, and revenue for mobile apps.
• 👥 Nathan Hudson is passionate about helping apps reach their full growth potential by leveraging personalized user journeys, strategic web funnels, and creative acquisition channels tailored to their unique goals.
• 💡 “A huge advantage of web-to-app is how much control you have. You’re not locked into the app store’s rules—you can fully tailor the experience, from onboarding questions to paywalls, in ways that resonate with your users”
• 👋  LinkedIn

Resoureces:

• Perceptycs Website

Follow us on X: 

• David Barnard - @drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights:

[3:01] What does web-to-app mean?: Nathan Hudson explains the concept as converting traffic on the web or starting on the web before directing users to the app.

[5:28] Web-to-app strategies for different use cases: Nathan highlights common approaches such as quizzes, blog posts, and webinars to drive user engagement and app downloads.

[6:31] Defining web-to-app: Jacob Eiting describes it as using the web as part of either an acquisition or retention funnel.

[8:50] The benefits of cash flow: Nathan explains how web-to-app helps early-stage apps avoid waiting for long payment cycles by leveraging web purchases.

[10:50] Comparing conversion rates: Nathan shares that web often achieves higher conversion rates than app stores, particularly for higher-ticket subscription products.

[14:28] The role of attribution: Nathan discusses the advantage of better attribution tools on the web compared to app-only campaigns.

[20:23] Controlling user journeys: Nathan highlights how web-to-app allows brands to tailor onboarding experiences based on ad campaigns and user behavior.

[30:01] Reaching new audiences: Nathan explains how web-to-app campaigns can attract low-intent users and nurture them through lead magnets and webinars.

[37:07] Expanding to older audiences: Nathan discusses how web funnels allow brands to engage with desktop users and older demographics who may avoid app-only experiences.

[52:46] Personalization for success: Nathan emphasizes the importance of tailoring user experiences on web-to-app journeys to reflect user needs and context effectively.

On the podcast we talk with Phil about how to effectively use benchmarks to aid decision making, the limitations of benchmarks, and why even the best companies aren’t top quartile in every single metric.

Top Takeaways:

📏 Benchmarks are a starting point, not a roadmap
Treat benchmarks as directional indicators to uncover growth opportunities and prioritize actions, but don’t chase them blindly. They work best as tools for identifying areas to explore rather than metrics to perfect.

🏆 Focus on strengths over chasing perfection
It’s unrealistic to aim for excellence in every area. The most successful companies lean into their strengths, improve key weaknesses, and focus resources where they will make the biggest impact.

⚔️ Beware of misleading benchmarks
Not all benchmarks are helpful. Poorly sourced, overly generic, or irrelevant data can lead to wasted effort or misguided decisions. Use benchmarks that are specific to your category, geography, or growth stage.

🔍 Metrics only matter with context
Numbers on their own don’t tell the full story. A high churn rate might be fine if you acquire users cost-effectively and retain high-value customers. Metrics need to be interpreted with a deep understanding of your product and target audience.

💡 Data is powerful, but intuition seals the deal
Data highlights where to focus, but the most effective decisions come from pairing metrics with experience, intuition, and a clear understanding of your customers. This balance of analysis and instinct drives smarter, more impactful strategies.

About Phil Carter

👨‍💻 Growth Advisor at Elemental Growth, a consultancy dedicated to scaling consumer subscription companies through actionable benchmarks and strategic insights

👥 Phil Carter is committed on empowering consumer subscription companies to achieve sustainable growth by leveraging benchmarks, refining growth strategies, and identifying key opportunities for value creation, delivery, and capture.

💡  “Where people get in trouble with benchmarks is they try to make them the end-all. be-all right. They try to do more with them than they really should be.”

👋  LinkedIn

Resources:

• Elemental Growth Website

Follow us on X: 

• David Barnard - @drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights:

[1:37] The Subscription Value Loop: Phil introduces his framework for driving sustainable growth through value creation, delivery, and capture, and how it applies to subscription businesses.

[5:52] Benchmarks as tools: Phil explains how benchmarks are a directional tool to guide decision-making and identify growth opportunities rather than an end-all, be-all.

[13:07] Judging good ideas: The team discusses how great execution relies on judgment and filtering good ideas to focus on what moves the business forward.

[20:53] Using the Subscription Value Loop: Phil shares how the framework acts as a diagnostic tool for spotting bottlenecks in client businesses and setting growth priorities.

[24:47] The impact of pricing and free value: Phil describes a fitness app’s challenge with over-delivering value for free, resulting in low subscription conversion rates and pricing adjustments.

[30:26] The power of subscription retention insights: Phil explains how understanding differences in retention between annual and monthly subscribers can shape pricing and product strategy.

[36:32] Interpreting benchmarks through context: The hosts discuss how benchmarks differ based on the business model, user acquisition strategy, and market dynamics.

[42:46] Paid vs. organic growth strategies: Phil underscores the risks of being overly dependent on paid ads and the value of diversifying acquisition through organic channels.

[47:18] Value capture and monetization: Phil explores strategies for optimizing conversion rates, pricing, and paywalls to increase revenue capture from free users.

[55:45] What’s next for the Subscription Value Loop Calculator: Phil shares plans for enhancing the tool with better data, new filters, and expanded benchmarks in future versions.

On the podcast: estimating the revenue potential of an app, crafting an exit strategy, and why LTV is such a terrible metric.

Top Takeaways:
🎯 Finding the right market fit – Not all apps have billion-dollar potential, and chasing massive markets often means competing with big players. Instead, focus on markets where your app has room to stand out. By positioning yourself in a "Goldilocks zone"—big enough to scale but niche enough to avoid overcrowding—you’ll lay the groundwork for sustainable growth.

📈 Portfolios over all-in strategies – Instead of putting all your effort into scaling one app, building a portfolio of smaller, successful apps can diversify risk and drive steady revenue. Portfolios give you the flexibility to test new ideas and spread your earnings across multiple use cases, avoiding the pitfalls of over-concentrating on one product.

🔍 When to expand features or create a new app – Apps with focused, singular value propositions tend to attract and retain users better than those overloaded with features. Before adding more functionality, ask: Does this align with the app’s core mission? If not, consider launching a complementary app to avoid cluttering your existing product.

🧪 Price testing without regrets – Effective price testing requires patience and precision. Run small tests, and use early retention patterns—such as trial-to-paid or monthly renewal rates—to model the impact on long-term subscribers. Always prepare for possible retention dips by planning worst-case scenarios to protect your bottom line.

✍🏻 Set up for a strategic exit – If acquisition is your goal, build your app to be buyer-ready. Private equity and strategic acquirers look for apps with clean operations, predictable revenue, and scalable systems. Crafting a clear differentiation and avoiding operational mess increases your chances of attracting high-value offers and makes the process smoother.

About Patrick Falzon
👨‍💼 Co-founder of The App Shop, Patrick helps app developers build sustainable portfolios, optimize monetization, and prepare for strategic exits.

📈 With extensive experience in app monetization and growth strategies, Patrick is focused on creating streamlined user experiences while identifying opportunities for sustainable scaling and market differentiation.

💡 “A big market is great only if you can take a substantial or specific share of that market. If it’s so competitive that you can’t garner any market share, it’s not actually valuable to you."

👋 Patrick on LinkedIn

Resources
The App Shop website

Follow Us:
• David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting
• RevenueCat: https://twitter.com/RevenueCat
• Sub Club: https://twitter.com/SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights
[1:41] The story begins: Patrick’s career evolution — from investing in to operating at Mosaic Group.
[7:59] A stand-out app: Why RoboKiller, an app for blocking spam calls and texts, stood out in Mosaic’s portfolio.
[9:07] Evaluating market size: Mosaic’s framework for assessing an app’s revenue potential balances market depth with competition and user demand.
[14:20] Tough markets to crack: Mosaic avoided saturated app categories (like VPNs and personal finance), due to high acquisition costs and competitive pressure.
[19:36] Depth vs. breadth: How Mosaic decided whether to enhance existing apps or create new ones.
[25:52] Portfolio strategies: Building a diverse portfolio of smaller apps, instead of scaling a single app, can reduce risk and increase sustainable revenue.
[32:14] LTV pitfalls: Patrick stresses the importance of capping LTV projections and focusing on shorter payback periods to make realistic growth decisions.
[39:20] Exit strategy: Aligning operational processes, profitability, and a clean setup improves the chances of a successful app exit.
[49:12] Retain to sustain: Why user retention metrics are key to building durable, long-term revenue.
[1:01:05] Good press: How Mosaic leveraged proprietary data to secure media coverage, boosting RoboKiller’s organic growth and user trust.

On the podcast: the power of user segmentation, executing bold strategic shifts, and why imaginary customer conversations are sometimes better than real ones.

Key Takeaways:
💡 Simplification drives growth - Alex shares how transitioning from a freemium to a free trial model simplified V1 Sports' monetization strategy, aligning better with their users and discovering new revenue opportunities.

🤔 Rethink assumptions to uncover opportunities - Alex emphasizes the importance of questioning outdated business assumptions, using user feedback and internal discussions to refine strategies and reignite growth.

📊 User segmentation unveils hidden value - By identifying key user needs, like connecting golfers with coaches, V1 Sports leveraged segmentation to create tailored offerings that boosted engagement and revenue.

⏳ Bold decisions can pay off - Switching longstanding free features to paid access generated friction but ultimately led to a 90% revenue growth, proving that sometimes taking risks is necessary to drive business viability.

🌐 Focus on ideal users for long-term success - Alex highlights the importance of catering to highly engaged users who find value in the product, ensuring sustainable growth while reducing churn from less committed users.

About Alex Prasad

👨‍💻 CEO of V1 Sports, a leading provider of video golf swing analysis software and seamless video lesson solutions for golfers and instructors.

👥 Alex Prasad is committed to driving growth through bold strategic shifts, user segmentation, and simplifying complex monetization models to serve better the needs of both consumers and professionals in the golf industry.

💡  "You can’t please everybody—much harder when those people are already in the tent and some may perceive it as you kicking them out because you’re changing the rules of the game."

👋  LinkedIn

Resources - Alex

• V1 Sports Website

Follow us on X: 

• David Barnard - @drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights

[2:10] Adapting for success: How V1 Sports, a 30-year-old technology company, became a leader in video golf swing analysis by adapting to market changes.

[5:48] Trials and tribulations: Why V1 Sports switched from freemium to free trials, and the challenges it created.

[10:32] Keep it simple: How simplifying monetization can lead to new revenue opportunities.

[17:15] Bold bets and backlash: Asking long-time users to pay for previously free features and navigating the resulting backlash.

[24:30] Segmentation wins: How V1 Sports identified key user needs, like finding a coach, to create tailored solutions and increase engagement.

[30:22] Innovation meets tradition: The challenges of preserving legacy app features while modernizing your product to meet new user demands.

[36:48] Critical feedback: The dreaded one-star review can be an opportunity to improve and grow your business.
[43:10] Talking it out: How Alex uses hypothetical user dialogues to guide product and customer strategy decisions.
[57:20] Know your audience: Alex emphasizes the importance of catering to ideal customers and avoiding the trap of chasing uncommitted users.

On the podcast: what’s currently working for apps on TikTok, how to create viral content, why you should try working with influencers who don’t have many followers.

Key Takeaways:

🔍 Getting noticed: How TikTok’s algorithm amplifies reach - TikTok’s “For You Page” prioritizes engaging content over follower count, so apps can go viral without a big audience.

📈 E-commerce strategies that work for apps on TikTok - E-commerce brands have mastered quick, punchy content on TikTok, and app marketers can adopt similar tactics. Short tutorials, “top 5” lists, and problem-solution demos grab attention fast and build trust.

🚀 Adding viral-ready app features for growth loops - Viral-ready features, like progress trackers or custom shareable visuals, give users a reason to promote the app. Highlighting milestones, achievements, or unique app insights adds a built-in social layer that drives organic growth.

📝 Think like a TikTok producer, not a consumer - Scroll with intention. Save top content by category to keep your ideas fresh and aligned with TikTok trends.

🧪 Testing app ideas and features on TikTok - Test app ideas and features on TikTok with waitlists and concept marketing to validate user interest before building.

About Joseph Choi
👨‍💼 Founder of the Viral App Founders Community, with a background in e-commerce marketing and a keen focus on helping app developers go viral, especially through innovative approaches on TikTok.

📈 Joseph has a deep understanding of viral marketing and influencer strategies, emphasizing the value of working with “micro-influencers” or creators with smaller followings who often drive authentic engagement.

💡 "On TikTok, it’s not about having a huge follower count; it’s about connecting with users through genuine, engaging content. Even a new account can achieve millions of views with the right approach."

👋  Follow Joseph on X → https://x.com/JosephKChoi

🗣️ Register for the upcoming webinar with Joseph.

Subscribe to the podcast → https://www.subclub.co

Follow Us:
• David Barnard: https://x.com/drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting: https://x.com/jeiting
• RevenueCat: https:/x.com/RevenueCat
• Sub Club: https://x.com/SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights 

[5:12] Leverage with TikTok: Joseph explains why TikTok’s unique “For You” page allows even new accounts to reach massive audiences without needing followers.
[11:35] Influencer shift: Why working with micro-influencers, or creators with smaller followings, can lead to higher engagement and more authentic content for apps.
[18:43] TikTok Shop revolution: Joseph dives into how TikTok Shop’s affiliate model has changed the game for e-commerce, allowing products to reach audiences quickly with creator-driven content.
[24:58] Crafting a viral hook: Apps that create emotional, relatable hooks gain traction, especially when leveraging TikTok’s algorithm to amplify visually appealing content.
[32:12] Power of authenticity: How TikTok users value authenticity over polished content and what that means for brands looking to grow on the platform.
[39:47] AI and content quality: Joseph discusses the intersection of TikTok’s AI and quality content, stressing that no algorithm trick beats a strong story and engaging format.
[45:09] Effective CTAs on TikTok: Best practices for call-to-actions on TikTok, focusing on subtle prompts over traditional “link in bio” strategies.
[53:20] Content inspiration: Joseph’s method of tracking viral content trends and adapting successful formats to keep app marketing fresh and engaging.

On the podcast: the risk of ad creative concentration, how to reach older, high-value demographics, and why the ultimate KPI is revenue.

Key Takeaways:

🛠️ A unified roadmap eliminates silos - Operating with one shared roadmap ensures alignment across product, marketing, and engineering, promoting collaboration and agility.

💡 Monetization might require more than just subscriptions - Post-IDFA, blending subscriptions with ads and one-time purchases maximizes revenue and reaches non-subscribers.

📺 TV and radio ads still build trust - Older audiences trust TV more than digital ads. A diversified media mix and real-time tracking can make these channels highly effective.

📊 Creative testing prevents costly surprises - Diversifying creative assets across platforms reduces risk and ensures consistent ad performance, even when policies change.

🎯 Empathy boosts customer loyalty in niche markets - High-touch, personal responses to customer feedback—especially in sensitive sectors—can build trust and long-term loyalty.

About Ryan Beck 

👨‍💻 Co-founder and CTO at Pray.com — an app with a mission to grow faith, cultivate community, and leave a legacy of helping others through faith-based content and community-building features.

👥 Ryan Beck is driven by innovation in technology for the faith space, successfully navigating the complexities of building digital platforms that resonate with older, high-value demographics while maintaining exceptional retention rates.

💡 "We saw a space that was underserved, where technology could bridge the gap between faith organizations and their communities, making faith more accessible in the digital age.”

👋  LinkedIn

Resources

• Pray.com

Follow us on X: 

• David Barnard - @drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Subscribe to the podcast → https://www.subclub.co

Follow Us:
• David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting
• RevenueCat: https://twitter.com/RevenueCat
• Sub Club: https://twitter.com/SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights:

[00:57] Digitizing faith: Pray.com’s mission to modernize faith organizations with digital platforms.
[02:49] Better together: The challenges and benefits of building a platform for diverse faiths with shared goals.
[04:47] Generation gap: Addressing tech adoption and user retention challenges with older demographics.
[06:47] Traditional values: How Pray.com used TV and radio ads to reach older, high-value users.
[09:16] Say your prayers: The devotional content that strengthened Pray.com’s user engagement and retention.
[11:52] Keeping the faith: Introducing subscription models without losing the trust of a faith-driven community.
[19:59] Lessons in diversification: The risks of relying too heavily on a single ad creative.
[31:08] Faith meets tech: Blending technology with spirituality to create accessible digital content for all.
[41:26] Data-driven decisions: How the Pray.com team optimized their TV and digital ad strategies for maximum impact.

On the podcast: effectively scaling support for an app, why the time to first response is so important, and why you should treat support more like a concierge experience.

Key Takeaways:

💡 Personalized customer support is a competitive advantage - Eli emphasizes that providing fast, personal responses to customers sets brands apart from competitors. Even in a world of increasing automation, building a concierge-like experience can boost customer loyalty.

🤖 AI and human support can work in harmony - Eli explains how Captions blends AI-driven automation with human agents, allowing the support team to focus on more complex customer needs while AI handles repetitive tasks, creating a seamless experience.

⏳ Speed matters: Time to first response is key - Captions prides itself on a 58-second average response time, which Eli believes is critical to keeping customers satisfied and preventing churn. Quick responses signal that the company is engaged and ready to help.

📊 Building customers for life through proactive support - Eli shares Captions’ philosophy of nurturing “customers for life” by going beyond just resolving issues. Sharing customer success stories with the team helps build a culture focused on long-term user satisfaction.

🌐 Scaling with localization and 24/7 support - Captions serves users globally by providing 24/7 support and localized services, ensuring that customers in every market receive timely, effective assistance regardless of their language or region.

About Eli Winderbaum:

👨‍💻 Head of Customer Experience at Captions, an AI-powered video creation and editing app designed to help users tell better stories through seamless video content.

👥 Eli is passionate about scaling customer support with a focus on personal, concierge-level experiences that build long-term customer loyalty, rather than simply deflecting inquiries with automation.

💡 "Even if we don't resolve their issue right away, providing a fast, empathetic response builds trust and shows our users that we're here to support them—turning a quick interaction into a lasting connection."

👋 LinkedIn

Resources: 

• Captions website

Follow us on X: 

• David Barnard - @drbarnard
• Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
• RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
• SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights 

[3:18] Don’t just deflect: Why support isn’t just about reducing tickets—it’s about creating a concierge-like experience.
[8:26] Support as a moat: Great customer support can be your competitive edge, especially when users are comparing similar apps.
[12:15] Hiring right: How curiosity and embracing change are key traits for building a top-tier support team.
[16:44] The AI edge: Blending AI and human agents to enhance, not replace, the customer experience.
[21:22] Scaling globally: How Captions offers 24/7 support across different time zones and languages.
[27:50] Community roots: The role that platforms like Discord can play in early-stage customer feedback and feature development.
[34:10] Docs and AI: Keeping documentation up to date is crucial for effective AI-powered support.
[41:35] Turn feedback into features: Captions' approach to quickly implementing user feedback to create loyal customers.